Colo new 5 year plan

[rocketman]

I went to the meetings in Gunnison,Montrose,and Grand Junction
over the last 2 weeks about the new 5 year season structure.
I am very optomistic that some major changes will be made
regarding elk management in Colo.I fully support state wide
draw for elk, as we do for deer.The pressure on preference points
is out of control. sate wide draw will address this directly.
Any ideas and thoughts from you folks.

 

[COHunter]

I went to the meeting in the Springs, and they made it sound like nothing was really gonna change no matter what, with the exception of maybe giving resident hunters more tags in hard to draw area's like GMU 201, 2, 10, etc....

For herd management you can choose one of the following:

A) 15-30 male/female
B) 15-30 male/female
C) 15-30 male/female
D) Please give alternative (as long as it states 15-30 male/female)

It was fun listening to some of the opinions given though...

 

[Skeet]

You are mistaken if you think there will be no major changes in Colorado. The current choices for the wildlife commission are as follows: Elk 80% of the units for unlimited licensing
20% of the units for total limitations which is the current management policy, new choices are,
Elk 50% maximum opportunity(unlimited licensing)
30% limited opportunity(limited licensing)
20% premiere opportunity (trophy quality)
or Elk 30% maximum opportunity
40% limited opportunity
30% premiere opportunity

It is highly unlikely that the current 80/20 scenerio will be used again. I would encourage all non-residents and residents to let the Wildlife Commission know your position on this. It is a shame that the state with the highest elk population allows the bulls to be exploited every year with unlimited licensing. Hopefully something positive will take place this year.

 

[BUCKSPY]

An interesting insight into what we are up against is contained in this little blurb. The DOW held a meeting open for public input in the Denver area concerning the new season structures. It was coincidently held during the third combined season. For those of you who don't know, the third combined season is the most popular among Colorado residents. The timing of the meeting is baffleing if you are under the opinion that they care about your input.

Skeet-Hopefully something positive WILL happen this year. Are you holding your breath? I doubt anybody that participated in the "Stakeholders" Commitee Meetings back in the mid 90's is holding theirs.

 

[stalker]

Bucky,
Give Skeet a break. He is right there will be major change next year. The size of the shaft....
I'm suprised no one has brought up the proposed fee increases for resident hunters.

 

[COHunter]

It will be interesting to see what (if) changes are made. I'm sure that every location holding the BGSS forum is gonna give their own biased opinion, depending on who's explaining whats up.

The guy in the Springs pretty much had a "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" attitude, while many of us in attendence think "its broke".

 

[ColoradoBob]

I went to the meeting here in Durango. I left with the feeling that things were not going to change very much. I got the impression that OTC tags will still be the next 5 year plan. They do need to address the preference point system. You may never draw a tag in 2, 201, 10------I like the idea of the weight point system that they have for moose & bighorn.

 

[Cowkiller]

The DOW holds the meetings. They don't want you to think that there is a chance elk tags will be limited. Limiting elk tags limits revenue. However it's the wildlife commission that gets to make the decision. If enough people want limited elk tags and make it known to the commission they may do it. I think all elk tags should be limited. Selling unlimited bull elk tags is not management it's greed. I think that unlimited bull tags are the biggest reason that Colorado consistently fails to meet their harvest objectives on cow elk. People only have a certain amount of time and energy to hunt elk and they are using it to hunt bulls. If you couldn't hunt bulls every year a lot of good hunters would successfully hunt cows.

I don't believe there is a problem with the preference point system. While many of you are hoarding points I'm drawing a very good elk license every year with no preference points at all. Why are people hoarding points? It's those unlimited bull tags again. If people couldn't hunt bulls with an over the counter license they might not be willing to wait 15 years to hunt in unit 201. You can not make it easier to draw in high demand units by changing the preference point system. Sure you can make a lucky few draw with less points but that will make it take even longer for others who are not as lucky. The preference point system is the only fair system. In Colorado there are many, many options for elk hunting. Yes there are only a handful of units managed for mature bulls. If you want to hunt one of those units you will have to wait a long, long time. That's the way it is but at least there is a tag at the end of the wait. If random luck is introduced into the system there may not be a tag at the end of a lifetime of applications.

I have sent my input to the wildlife commission. I hope everyone here has done the same.

 

[rocketman]

I agree Colo is managing for greed. Maximum opporunity is
the code word for max revenue. We are the only state that
offers otc to non residents. Over 50% of the DOW budget comes
from non res elk tags. Colo has made big game hunting BIG
business. That will be very difficult to overcome. It is a
shame what poor stewards we are to our bull population.Every
sate manages there bulls with respect. We manage it with dollar signs.Our bull cow ratios, mature bull ratios are the worst
in the west. We should hang our heads in shame. Having followed
our elk for 45 years I know what I speak.

 

[Waygoner]

Rocketman hit it square on the head. Hunting is big business in Colorado. It brings in more revenue than SKIING! I'd like to see all bull licenses limited and OTC cow tags. I doubt we'll see it happen though.

 

[BCHunter]

I do not understand the big problem with OTC tags. You have a herd that is way over management objectives. However, the OTC tag should be an either sex tag. As stated above, a lot of good hunters go home empty handed because a bull was not available.

I am still confused on why a non-resident has to pay more than a resident to hunt on Public Land. It belongs to the US not the State. They might be more receptive to less over the counter tags and more Trophy units if everybody paid the same (as in everybody paid $490). The revenue would stay the same with less hunters and less bulls taken. It's a win for everyone.

The other option would be to allow a person to buy a cow tag along with a bull tag.

Happy Hunting, Darran

 

[txhunter58]

>You have a herd that
>is way over management objectives.
> However, the OTC tag
>should be an either sex
>tag. As stated above,
>a lot of good hunters
>go home empty handed because
>a bull was not available.

I agree, there should be more either sex tags, however the DOW HAS been issuing more either sex tags lately

>I am still confused on why
>a non-resident has to pay
>more than a resident to
>hunt on Public Land.
>It belongs to the US
>not the State.

The LAND does belong to all of us, and we can go on it for free any time, but the animals that reside there belong to the state they inhabit. Just like the landowner doesn't own the wild animals that reside on his land. May not seem fair to us nonresidents, but it sounds "legal" and up to a point, I think that is fair.

>
>The other option would be to
>allow a person to buy
>a cow tag along with
>a bull tag.
>

YOU CAN! The last few years, you could have up to 3 elk tags (1 bull + 2 cow tags)


It seems to me that making bull tags drawing only, would increase bull quality and increase the demand for cow tags, which would be a good thing.

However, does anyone have any real knowledge as to how far bull tags would have to be reduced to increase the quality? If I remember correctly, they can reduce the tags up to 50% before there is ANY drop in bull harvest. I know there are a lot of people who would think this would be great, but would a majority of COLORADO hunters favor reducing the bull tags by 50% or more? May be a tough sell. Personally, I would be all for going every other year if it meant better quality, but I suspect that a lot of Colorado residents want to hunt a bull every year. Just a guess though.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[contender]

Colorado Elk do need to be managed. Residents should have first crack at any drawing. Price should increase for residents to the point non-resident money doesn't matter. Non-residents should be able to hunt with a drawing after the residents have drawn. This would be a starting point.

 

[txhunter58]

So what you are saying is that as a resident you are willing to pay $300-400 or more for a bull tag?

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[ELKMASTER101]

LET SAY,
non-res. hunts 4 years he pays the same as a resident would pay in 60 years. or 15 times as much.
that seams fair,
I do agree with the over the counter tag bul tag should have an option, eithere-sex.

 

[Waygoner]

Either sex tags OTC would help reduce the number of cows, but it doesn't do much for managing the bull population. I think the DOW needs to shift it's focus from managing for $$ to managing for herd ratios and population objectives. I'd sure like to see the bull/cow ratio improved. I think totally limiting bull licenses is the answer. I doubt it will ever happen though.

I think every state in the US charges more for non-residents. The land may be Federally owned, but the animals are state property. It might not be fair, but it's the norm. I believe Colorado is the only state where a non-resident can buy an OTC elk tag. Compared to other states, Colorado is still the best deal going for non-residents. There is talk of doubling the cost of resident tags. Around here a lot of folks depend on hunting to feed their families. I'd hate to see it turn into a rich man's sport, but that's where it's headed. Look at what some tags in Utah are selling for.

Just my $0.02

 

[txhunter58]

"I'd hate to see it turn into a rich man's sport, but that's where it's headed"


I think you left something out of this statement. You meant to say: "I'd hate to see it turn into a rich man's sport FOR RESIDENTS", didn't you?

 

[Skeet]

>I do not understand the big
>problem with OTC tags.
>You have a herd that
>is way over management objectives.

I will tell you the problem with over the counter bull tags.(very sore spot with me) 83% of the State of Colorado has over the counter bull elk tags with no restrictions what so ever. Anyone meeting the hunting requirements may go buy a license and hunt in any of these units statewide. Not all units in the state are over objective, although there are several that are. The problem with this is that some areas continuely get pounded with hunting pressure because it is a popular area, regardless of whether the unit is above or below population objectives, i.e. total population, sex ratios. If licenses were limited statewide, distribution of hunters would be more evenly dispersed and you could make more hunters hunt cows instead of bulls to control the population. I am sorry but colorado needs more true management than just hunter preference driving the season structure and allocation of licenses. Its a privilege to hunt not a right anymore. I treasure ever day that I am aloud to spend a day in the woods chasing wild wapiti. I am a Colorado resident and would love to see a tremendous increase in license fees for residents. We haven't had one in a long time. Go ahead and blast me I am ready.

 

[contender]

Skeet I do agree 100% that elk tags for residents need to be increased to the point of saying ouch. The CDWL does need the revenue to be able to totally limit tags to a drawing, eliminating OTC tags. Colorado has been generous to allow unlimited hunting within it's borders. Now is the time to build a second to none herd by limiting the licenses to a reasonable amount and getting all units a good bull to cow ratio. Look what unlimited licenses have done to our deer herd, now all deer licenses are limited.

 

[ELKMASTER101]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-04 AT 01:50PM (MST)[p]CONTENDER,
the draw on deer tags didn't take the deer population down. Desease and weather conditions that fell back to back did it.
and unfortunatly it takes time to rebound.
the elk heard is 5 times the number that are in the surounding states,
and in some areas getting way out of hand,
unfortunatily the only cure is mother nature, and she will wipe out large areas,
it will inturn be blamed on either the dow or the hunter,
when we all know its just a fualt of greed,
look what happened to the stock market,
it is controled by day traders.
colorado has more than one world record elk hiding off in someones ranch,
ranching fore wildlife is one of the worst ran programs i've see in years.
they get a tax break, yet they charge you a fee to tresspass.
I had a rancher tell me i couldn't go on public land because he was leasing it from the goverment to grase catle.
thats hog wash.
i also had a native, american get pissed off because i was on dow property and had a cow license. he said that thay had no right giving out licenses to kill his sacrate cows. what an moreon,
bring the bucks back down to 250 per head, and make it either-sex.
you can bet you will drop a large number of cows,
and your bulls will increase in heard no. the next year.
they can still maintain their 4 point or better req, for bulls.
I know I hunted public land last year and saw well over 300 elk in the week.
and in one day 20 + bulls.
Which most were in the 5 to 6 point and a couple sevens.
so you don't cry to me about no big ones out there.
I also had a rancher have his kid stand on his side of the fence, (his
13 year old son) and shout, piss, and scream to keep the elk from crossing.
and his kid had the gull to clime the fence and walk up to me and ask me how i was doing.
now this rancher also was fling a outfiters sign on the side of his truck.
I don't know where i'm going with this,
lower the tags, increase the no. of hunters.
and make it manditory that if your property boarders state land
you have to give access thru it, to it. where ever they (the hunter)seem to feel best to access.

 

[Skeet]

> I know I hunted public
>land last year and saw
>well over 300 elk in
>the week.
>and in one day 20 +
>bulls.
> Which most were in the
>5 to 6 point and
>a couple sevens.
> so you don't cry to
>me about no big ones
>out there.
> I don't know where i'm
>going with this,
>lower the tags, increase the no.
>of hunters.
>and make it manditory that if
>your property boarders state land
>you have to give access thru
>it, to it. where ever
>they (the hunter)seem to feel
>best to access.

Well if you were hunting public land and the 20 bulls you saw were 5,6 and 7 point bulls you must have hit the lottery. Make sure not to tell anyone where you were hunting. Yea lets lower the cost of tags, increase hunter numbers and let people hunt anywhere they choose, regardless of whether its private property or not. By the way what planet did you say you were from!!!!!!

Whether you know it or not alot of ranch land is prime winter habitat for alot of elk and deer in some of these mountainous valleys. If it wasn't for private land in todays world alot of our mule deer and elk habitat would be swallowed by developement. No I don't agree with all that comes with ranching for wildlife but it's better than condos or homes. Wake up elkmaster101.

 

[contender]

thanks for your opinion and plan.

 

[ELKMASTER101]

SKEET,
ya I must have, jack pot alright. Funny thing is i have been surching now for 9 years,
I could let you know the area, but its right in the middle of privet ground,
I did get access from one of the ranchers to access it and even hunt on his privet land. But the other rancher on an ajoining side is pissed off because he runs a outfitting service.
this coming year i plan to set up vidio camara on the crossing spot, and catch the little kid and old man
collect 1000 bucks, for (hunter harassement))
I'm not realy as negitive as i come on, I like to blow off a little steam now and then.
If it wasn't for privet land there wouldn't be any critters left.
My hats off to the ranchers and for all their endevers, or at least most of them.
but there is a bad apple in every bunch.
I try to act bad,
Jim

 

[Waygoner]

>I think you left something out
>of this statement. You
>meant to say: "I'd
>hate to see it turn
>into a rich man's sport
>FOR RESIDENTS", didn't you?

You're right, for non-residents it's already a rich man's sport. By the time you add in travel expenses, etc., a non-resident deer or elk hunt is easily $1,000 or more. Hire a guide and you're really spending some bucks. Look at what some tags are selling for in Utah, Arizona, etc. Someone just spent $49,000 for ONE tag in Utah. Where is this trend going to take us? Are we going to have corporate sponsors next? "Colorado elk hunting sponsored by Cabelas!" An exaggeration of course, but I find the this trend alarming.

 

[rocketman]

I agree with the above, that us residents need to take a much
larger share of the DOW budget if we want fewer hunters in
the field. Many more draw units with state wide limitations
WILL address low bull cow ratios, low mature bull ratios and
preference point inflation. This WILL work. Guaranteed.Trophy
fees for high quality units RES. $300 NON RES 700 plus tag
costs. DOW can make up the revenue loss from reduced hunters
with these fees. Colorado has the best BIG GAME habitat in
the west and CAN produce some great quality if given a chance.
This is one resident willing to pay much higher fees to hunt
some good quality. Rich mans sport? meat hunting? youths?
Keep cow tags very low $30-40.Open units still rather low$60.
EVERYONE can still hunt elk with that plan.If you cant afford
that get a second job.