DRAW RESULTS

>Something tells me that today might
>be the day.


I think it's close. IDFG on facebook posted how to find draw results. Good luck to all!
 
That post said anytime between now (which was yesterday around 4:30) and July 10. Let's hope that it's closer to now than July 10. Good luck, folks. I played the better odds units this year. Not complaining, but in 16 years of applying in Idaho I've drawn one deer tag on the first draw and a leftover elk tag on the second draw which was a guaranteed draw on the first draw. Here's to a change in luck! Cheers.
 
1 tag in 16 years... wow. Honestly wouldn't it be nice to have a points system along the lines of Wyoming were at least you are gaining some ground in the draw and still have a snowballs chance in hell of drawing. I mean as it is now that's about what the odds of drawing the better tags currently are, why not get something in return for your investment?
 
We regularly debate the merits of random draws versus a point system. Let's not blow up this thread about draw results and get a million notifications on an off-topic debate.
 
Wyoming does not have points for residents in the deer/elk/antelope draws, and that's the way it should stay!

I'm old enough, and my kids are old enough (and far enough behind the point curve)that I only apply us for tags in states where everyone has the same chances of drawing, ie no point system!

If we want a ?better? tag then we are prepared to wait, possibly a long time...if we want to hunt we apply for tags with better odds...simple, and fair.

Now, back to the subject at hand...come on Idaho, you're killing me, haha.
 
All I gotta say is I've drawn 3 antelope and one deer tag in Wyoming in 15 years. And they were all trophy units. I've never drawn a trophy unit in my home state, ever. Points work IMO....
 
>All I gotta say is I've
>drawn 3 antelope and one
>deer tag in Wyoming in
>15 years. And they were
>all trophy units. I've never
>drawn a trophy unit in
>my home state, ever.
>Points work IMO....

Wyoming has WAY more antelope than Idaho. Even if you went to a point system in Idaho it would still take you 10+ years (probably even more) to draw a tag in the hard to draw units cause there just isn't enough of them to go around. There really isn't a comparison there.

I think most people who put in for the top units in Idaho usually draw AT LEAST 1 deer tag in fifteen years, so I feel like Idaho's system wins there. Heck I've drawn 4 deer tags in 12 years on one of the best units in Idaho (arguably THE best unit in Idaho). Even with the terrible odds I've drawn 3 antelope tags and 2 bull tags in that same time, all in some of the better units in Idaho. I'd like to see that happen in ANY state with points. Idaho's system works. I know from time to time people have dry spells, especially if they are putting in for the top tier units, but the averages will work in your favor more often with a random draw than the point systems. This system is really built to be fair and work for everybody, just like every drawing system should be.
 
For every guy who has had the good fortune to draw multiple times, there is a hundred who have never drawn. Simple fact is, I have hunted premium hunts in WYO, Colo, Nev and Ore more than once in each state and only drew one elk tag in this state back when I was a non-resident and the odds were good.

Can't really argue that the system isn't "fair" as everyone's chances are lousy.
 
>We regularly debate the merits of
>random draws versus a point
>system. Let's not blow up
>this thread about draw results
>and get a million notifications
>on an off-topic debate.


The draw results will come out when they come out. They don't come out two weeks before the stated date. If you don't like the wait, don't apply.
 
It's as fair as can be, if you don't like it quit applying and hunt elsewhere.

The odds may be long, but that doesn't make it unfair.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-18 AT 10:13AM (MST)[p]Missalot, Poor you, that's the saddest story iv'e heard ALL DAY !!!
 
Most people that complain about never drawing a tag in Idaho are only putting in for premium hunts where they only have a 1% to 3% chance of drawing a tag so by those odds you very well may never draw in a lifetime which wouldn't change even if there were points. I'd argue that anyone?s ever drawn multiple premium tags in Colorado for the same species because most of those tags are 20 to 25 points and growing every year so if you're not a top point holder you're never drawing one of those tags. Everyone will always have different opinions on this but after watching the effects of point systems in multiple western states I firmly believe that Idaho has the best and most fair system for all users whether you're 70 and have hunted all your life or 10 years old and going out for your first time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-18 AT 01:31PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-18 AT 01:07?PM (MST)

Random draws produce less point creep. That's a major reason why they're way better.

The last thing we want is freaking Utah. 15 years to draw a half decent tag (only allowed to apply to one species) and a five year waiting period. Garbage general hunts because of too much pressure that's not spread through enough different units. Shoot maybe two big bulls in a lifetime. My friends from Utah are all jealous of our controlled hunts and general hunts, even if their big bull hunts that you wait forever for are better.
 
Preference or Bonus Points are not the way to go for residents. It will screw everyone who is not in on the ground level and then pulling a tag each successive time becomes more and more difficult. It will screw our kids and grand kids. I believe it's going to kill the hunting industry as a whole as there becomes fewer and fewer opportunities.

Perhaps an adjustment that could be made to the Idaho system is that the draw could consider the first persons choice and if not available then consider the second choice without moving onto the next person in line.

Per my understanding of the current system they only move onto second choice after all first choice are run through the system.
 
I wouldn't support extending the waiting period because there are hunts that have pretty good odds now that don't really need it.
 
>Preference or Bonus Points are not
>the way to go for
>residents. It will screw everyone
>who is not in on
>the ground level and then
>pulling a tag each successive
>time becomes more and more
>difficult. It will screw our
>kids and grand kids. I
>believe it's going to kill
>the hunting industry as a
>whole as there becomes fewer
>and fewer opportunities.
>
>Perhaps an adjustment that could be
>made to the Idaho system
>is that the draw could
>consider the first persons choice
>and if not available then
>consider the second choice without
>moving onto the next person
>in line.
>
>Per my understanding of the current
>system they only move onto
>second choice after all first
>choice are run through the
>system.

I feel that allowing the second choice would kill odds on the 2nd tier hunts. I put in for what I consider a 2nd tier deer hunt this year and I should have 20% odds, now if everybody who puts in for 40 or 45 chose a second tier hunt and were eligible to draw the odds on those types of hunts would dip into the sub 5% range I'm guessing.
 
No 2nd choice, leftover tags are to be sold 1st come, 1st served .

If the leftovers were worth a dang , they would have been drawn 1st choice.

You want points? Go to Utah/Nevada/Colorado and sing your song to them , until then . . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-18 AT 09:30PM (MST)[p]Regardless of what anyone suggests, there will always be someone to disagree. Two of the systems that are presented to argue against points (Colo and Utah) are the worst examples of point systems. There are systems in play that increase one's odds of drawing a tag without eliminating those just entering the system. And certainly, there isn't any reason that an equitable system cannot be designed. I can't see the point of applying for some half-azzed cow tag just to say that I drew a tag. No matter, with the changes to the population that are tagging place in this state, the day will come that some type of preference system will be the majority's choice.
 
Like Nevada and Wyoming.

But Wyoming gives a guaranteed 10% of tags to NRs. Idaho hunters would never go for that since that one tag out of 200 may go to them.

Wyoming?s system guarantees NRs will send their $$$ in every year.

Idaho is mostly a, ?I didn't draw so i?ll put in for Idaho? so there is no reason to spend $$$ in Idaho if you drew elsewhere.

If Idaho went to a NR point system like Wyoming, I would buy the $165.00 license every year and apply.

But it won't, so I won't.

Unless I don't draw in Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada or California.
 
Another thing that I will add is that a nonresidents opinion of the matter means nothing because they will always and rightfully so, be second class citizens when it comes to drawing a tag.

A lot of the comments stating that "I drew these tags in 15 years" also fail to recognize that the dynamics of the draw has changed greatly regarding a number of hunts. There are a number of hunts that were relatively easy to draw that now have less than 10% odds now and every year these will get worse. Where someone's draw success up to this point might be good, it probably won't be that way in the next decade.
 
As a resident of Idaho that puts in (and occasionally draws) tags in other states, I will never advocate for a point system. The fact is, I have multiple points in several states and have never drawn. As referenced above, my 9 Wyoming points are not near the top tier elk draws. My 13 Colorado elk points are just starting to get close to a mid tier unit, my 16 Nevada points have left me without a tag thus far, and I "cashed in" my UT points for a lesser unit to get out of the draws. NOPE NO POINT system for me.

All the states are backtracking and trying to devise a better point system, and none of them will ever get there because a point system will only favor a few, and leave new hunters out completely.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-18 AT 07:04AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-18 AT 07:03?AM (MST)

>As a resident of Idaho that
>puts in (and occasionally draws)
>tags in other states, I
>will never advocate for a
>point system. The fact
>is, I have multiple points
>in several states and have
>never drawn. As referenced
>above, my 9 Wyoming points
>are not near the top
>tier elk draws. My
>13 Colorado elk points are
>just starting to get close
>to a mid tier unit,
>my 16 Nevada points have
>left me without a tag
>thus far, and I "cashed
>in" my UT points for
>a lesser unit to get
>out of the draws.
>NOPE NO POINT system for
>me.
>
>All the states are backtracking and
>trying to devise a better
>point system, and none of
>them will ever get there
>because a point system will
>only favor a few, and
>leave new hunters out completely.
>


Nonresidents complain about not drawing any tags in ID's system with no pts and you complain about not drawing tags in states with a pt system. Both complaining about the same thing. I find this very funny.

I enjoy playing the draw game. I draw my fair share of tags. I've drawn a couple tags in ID and a bunch of others in pt states. I guess you gotta know what you're getting into before you apply to enjoy it.

"Go hunt for meat at Walmart."
 
Outdoor Dan is correct, every year this subject comes up,and the majority of the Idaho hunters do not want a point system, because it has been proven that it doesn't work in other states. NOT EVERY KID GETS A TROPHY FOR BEING ON THE TEAM !!
 
>>No pts 3 year waiting period.
>>
>Agree with this!!


how about 5 year waiting period after hunts with <10% draw odds? all others 3 years.


Travis
 
Point systems are a ponzi scheme that sell false hope and feelings of entitlement. There is no better system than a random draw.
 
>As a resident of Idaho that
>puts in (and occasionally draws)
>tags in other states, I
>will never advocate for a
>point system. The fact
>is, I have multiple points
>in several states and have
>never drawn. As referenced
>above, my 9 Wyoming points
>are not near the top
>tier elk draws. My
>13 Colorado elk points are
Great case to keep the point system out
>just starting to get close
>to a mid tier unit,
>my 16 Nevada points have
>left me without a tag
>thus far, and I "cashed
>in" my UT points for
>a lesser unit to get
>out of the draws.
>NOPE NO POINT system for
>me.
>
>All the states are backtracking and
>trying to devise a better
>point system, and none of
>them will ever get there
>because a point system will
>only favor a few, and
>leave new hunters out completely.
>
 
Frustration with draws of any kind are all due to simple "supply and demand".

Point systems are just a way to skew the math for the benefit of one, to the detriment of another, for a fee.

No one system is better than another for everyone, it's all related to your situation. I like Idaho, because the odd's are basically even for everyone involved, but I'd rather have max points in a premium state with the ability to pick any hunt I want. But, if I'm not one of those few that got in on the ground floor and has stayed there, then I'm screwed.

No matter how a state draws, I'm just thankful to be in a state where I can hunt every year for 3 big game species(Elk, MD, and WT). Amazingly, we allow the same for every NR as well. I think no state has more opportunity for residents except WY, many states have much less.

WY currently has an advantage as the amount of game they have relative to resident population is very much in their favor.

NR demand for all western states seems to be increasing. I'm not really sure why, as statistics seem to show less people hunting over time, but I assume it's marketing and more and more people wanting to be in the "draw" game. I doubt it will ever reverse course or even level out except for short periods of time during financial recessions. So, I think everyone will see less quality LE opportunities in the future.

I'll say again, as I have many times on MM, to the NR's that love to stir the "point" pot here, if you don't like it where you are, move.
 
First good luck all on the draws!!!

Second points suck!!!

Ya you might be able to draw that great unit if there was points but you would only draw it once if at all just like now if you do not start on a points system first year then you are screwed!!! so what about others that do not get into the draws first year??? points suck!!

I have been putting in for elk in utah for 23 years and probably won't draw for 2 to 5 more years because I'm 2 points from being max!! I started putting in at 23 years old and now I'm 46 I just hit the point I've been putting in for a elk tag for over half my life and still no limited entry tag!!!

So be careful what you wish for...
 
Have no fear you guys, I was in at the Nampa office today and they said they don't know when the results will be out but they have to be by the 10th. So with that being said I'm going to stick with my prediction of the 20th
 
There is not a western state where the top tier units take less than 20 years to draw... Not a single one, except Idaho and New Mexico where you actually have the chance to draw it the first year you put in.

Any 20 year old kid getting in on the points game right now in ANY western state with the intention to draw a top tier unit, will not draw before they are 60, if they draw at all.

If you can't crunch the numbers and see the point creep then you really just won't ever get it. Many of the state agencies are already seeing this and thus have converted some of the tags back to random. If the point systems are so good, why are some tags going back to a random draw? I see a whole lot of upset people in the future when they find out that the bonus point systems in the west are not sustainable for any of the top tier units. It will make these tags less than once in a lifetime because many people just won't be able to build the points before they die or are too old to hunt it like they wanted to.

Now if you are just looking for mediocre units, point systems aren't all bad there. The question is are they better than random? I'd say they aren't. Most mediocre units in Idaho have odds that you can pull a tag every 5 years or so. That's about the same as it would take to build the points and get a mediocre tag in a point system.

So I guess I ask, where is the benefit of the points system?

It's definitely not there in the top tier units.
It's not there on the mediocre units.

I just can't see any of the benefits of the point system other than a person who applies in multiple states and they can create a more concrete plan for when they know they are going to draw tags. For me, there is just way too much to lose out on just so that you know when you are going to draw..
 
>Have no fear you guys, I
>was in at the Nampa
>office today and they said
>they don't know when the
>results will be out but
>they have to be by
>the 10th. So with that
>being said I'm going to
>stick with my prediction of
>the 20th


I think they will beat the 10th as that's when elk tags go on sale for residents, and if the draw comes that day or after it will create more work with lots of tag exchanges...so tomorrow is looking good!!! :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-18 AT 11:11AM (MST)[p]Actually in 13 years many tags that were 2-4 % draw rate are still the same. That being said, maybe some have changed a little so I don't agree with that.
You're not second class citizens- you are NRs.
 
>>Have no fear you guys, I
>>was in at the Nampa
>>office today and they said
>>they don't know when the
>>results will be out but
>>they have to be by
>>the 10th. So with that
>>being said I'm going to
>>stick with my prediction of
>>the 20th
>
>
>I think they will beat the
>10th as that's when elk
>tags go on sale for
>residents, and if the draw
>comes that day or after
>it will create more work
>with lots of tag exchanges...so
>tomorrow is looking good!!! :)
>

They will either delay tag sales or just do exchanges, it's not like that many people who buy capped tags will draw
 
Sorry for turning this into a point debate. Everyone definitely has an opinion on the subject. I guess my perspective is why not have a system similar to Wyoming, (of course I'm talking non res here) everyone still has a chance to get lucky, but at least your getting somewhere loyally putting in year after year. What? your odds of drawing would go from a whopping 4% to 1.5% either one is catching lightning. I agree though enough of the points debate, just give us some results already. It would be nice to have a chance to make some sort of plan draw or not before the hunt. Mid July is a joke. A lot of planning and preparation goes into some of these hunts, sure would be nice to get things ironed out if you end up with a long shot tag in your pocket.
 
>There is not a western state
>where the top tier units
>take less than 20 years
>to draw... Not a single
>one, except Idaho and New
>Mexico where you actually have
>the chance to draw it
>the first year you put
>in.
>
>Any 20 year old kid getting
>in on the points game
>right now in ANY western
>state with the intention to
>draw a top tier unit,
>will not draw before they
>are 60, if they draw
>at all.
>
>If you can't crunch the numbers
>and see the point creep
>then you really just won't
>ever get it. Many of
>the state agencies are already
>seeing this and thus have
>converted some of the tags
>back to random. If the
>point systems are so good,
>why are some tags going
>back to a random draw?
>I see a whole lot
>of upset people in the
>future when they find out
>that the bonus point systems
>in the west are not
>sustainable for any of the
>top tier units. It will
>make these tags less than
>once in a lifetime because
>many people just won't be
>able to build the points
>before they die or are
>too old to hunt it
>like they wanted to.
>
>Now if you are just looking
>for mediocre units, point systems
>aren't all bad there. The
>question is are they better
>than random? I'd say they
>aren't. Most mediocre units in
>Idaho have odds that you
>can pull a tag every
>5 years or so. That's
>about the same as it
>would take to build the
>points and get a mediocre
>tag in a point system.
>
>
>So I guess I ask, where
>is the benefit of the
>points system?
>
>It's definitely not there in the
>top tier units.
>It's not there on the mediocre
>units.
>
>I just can't see any of
>the benefits of the point
>system other than a person
>who applies in multiple states
>and they can create a
>more concrete plan for when
>they know they are going
>to draw tags. For me,
>there is just way too
>much to lose out on
>just so that you know
>when you are going to
>draw..


which states have gone from points recently to random? just curious, i havent heard.



Travis
 
>>There is not a western state
>>where the top tier units
>>take less than 20 years
>>to draw... Not a single
>>one, except Idaho and New
>>Mexico where you actually have
>>the chance to draw it
>>the first year you put
>>in.
>>
>>Any 20 year old kid getting
>>in on the points game
>>right now in ANY western
>>state with the intention to
>>draw a top tier unit,
>>will not draw before they
>>are 60, if they draw
>>at all.
>>
>>If you can't crunch the numbers
>>and see the point creep
>>then you really just won't
>>ever get it. Many of
>>the state agencies are already
>>seeing this and thus have
>>converted some of the tags
>>back to random. If the
>>point systems are so good,
>>why are some tags going
>>back to a random draw?
>>I see a whole lot
>>of upset people in the
>>future when they find out
>>that the bonus point systems
>>in the west are not
>>sustainable for any of the
>>top tier units. It will
>>make these tags less than
>>once in a lifetime because
>>many people just won't be
>>able to build the points
>>before they die or are
>>too old to hunt it
>>like they wanted to.
>>
>>Now if you are just looking
>>for mediocre units, point systems
>>aren't all bad there. The
>>question is are they better
>>than random? I'd say they
>>aren't. Most mediocre units in
>>Idaho have odds that you
>>can pull a tag every
>>5 years or so. That's
>>about the same as it
>>would take to build the
>>points and get a mediocre
>>tag in a point system.
>>
>>
>>So I guess I ask, where
>>is the benefit of the
>>points system?
>>
>>It's definitely not there in the
>>top tier units.
>>It's not there on the mediocre
>>units.
>>
>>I just can't see any of
>>the benefits of the point
>>system other than a person
>>who applies in multiple states
>>and they can create a
>>more concrete plan for when
>>they know they are going
>>to draw tags. For me,
>>there is just way too
>>much to lose out on
>>just so that you know
>>when you are going to
>>draw..
>
>
>which states have gone from points
>recently to random? just
>curious, i havent heard.
>
>
>
>Travis

None have completely but I know that Arizona went from 100% points based to doing 75% points and 25% random(I think) a couple of years ago
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-18
>AT 07:04?AM (MST)

>
>LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-18
>AT 07:03?AM (MST)

>
>>As a resident of Idaho that
>>puts in (and occasionally draws)
>>tags in other states, I
>>will never advocate for a
>>point system. The fact
>>is, I have multiple points
>>in several states and have
>>never drawn. As referenced
>>above, my 9 Wyoming points
>>are not near the top
>>tier elk draws. My
>>13 Colorado elk points are
>>just starting to get close
>>to a mid tier unit,
>>my 16 Nevada points have
>>left me without a tag
>>thus far, and I "cashed
>>in" my UT points for
>>a lesser unit to get
>>out of the draws.
>>NOPE NO POINT system for
>>me.
>>
>>All the states are backtracking and
>>trying to devise a better
>>point system, and none of
>>them will ever get there
>>because a point system will
>>only favor a few, and
>>leave new hunters out completely.
>>
>
>
>Nonresidents complain about not drawing any
>tags in ID's system with
>no pts and you complain
>about not drawing tags in
>states with a pt system.
> Both complaining about the
>same thing. I find
>this very funny.
>
>I enjoy playing the draw game.
> I draw my fair
>share of tags. I've
>drawn a couple tags in
>ID and a bunch of
>others in pt states.
>I guess you gotta know
>what you're getting into before
>you apply to enjoy it.
>
>
>"Go hunt for meat at Walmart."
>

No complaints here, just the facts. I just gave my opinion on the points/random draw system.
 
>>>There is not a western state
>>>where the top tier units
>>>take less than 20 years
>>>to draw... Not a single
>>>one, except Idaho and New
>>>Mexico where you actually have
>>>the chance to draw it
>>>the first year you put
>>>in.
>>>
>>>Any 20 year old kid getting
>>>in on the points game
>>>right now in ANY western
>>>state with the intention to
>>>draw a top tier unit,
>>>will not draw before they
>>>are 60, if they draw
>>>at all.
^^^This^^^ is BS, there are many states that have a points system and guys with little or no points pull top tier tags every year. Utah, Nevada, Wyoming just to name a few. Just saying... if your lucky your lucky, but for those poor unlucky SOB?s that have been putting in for years with nothing to show for it would be nice to see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.
 
With all the states mentioned to compare points systems they all have differences for whether they're a preference point system or a bonus point system or a combination of the two. The only common denominator with all of them is that draw odds have continued getting worse over time with point creep. None of these states have been able to come up with a way to equalize draw odds for top hunts other than hoping the top point holders will either die or give up on ever drawing a tag. I used to be a fan of point systems but after sitting back and observing how they've worked in other states over the last 25 years or so I'm 100% for random draw and no points.
 
Draw odds in states without point systems have gotten equally worse as well, point systems don't make draw odds worse more applicants are what does that.
 
100% false. Point systems, refundable apps and anything else that makes it cheaper to apply with more certainty of drawing lower draw odds. Then, it's a slippery slope and you're hunting elk once every 10-30 years.
 
I got in the points game about 15 years ago. Took me about 3-4 years to figure it all out. When I realized it was a scam I got out and never went back.
 
So it's my imagination that the draw odds in Idaho have gotten worse? Has nothing to do with the fact that there are more applicants every year? Give me a break odds are going to get worse every year regardless of weather or not there is a point system I will ageee that if Idaho went to a point system that would further increase applicant numbers thus making the draw odds get worse even quicker but at least you will draw some day. There are legitiment arguments either way but I guarantee odds are going to get worse either way. I like point systems but doesn't really matter that much to me either way as I have done it a long time as long as you understand every states system you can pull some tags.
 
>>>>There is not a western state
>>>>where the top tier units
>>>>take less than 20 years
>>>>to draw... Not a single
>>>>one, except Idaho and New
>>>>Mexico where you actually have
>>>>the chance to draw it
>>>>the first year you put
>>>>in.
>>>>
>>>>Any 20 year old kid getting
>>>>in on the points game
>>>>right now in ANY western
>>>>state with the intention to
>>>>draw a top tier unit,
>>>>will not draw before they
>>>>are 60, if they draw
>>>>at all.
>^^^This^^^ is BS, there are many
>states that have a points
>system and guys with little
>or no points pull top
>tier tags every year. Utah,
>Nevada, Wyoming just to name
>a few. Just saying... if
>your lucky your lucky, but
>for those poor unlucky SOB?s
>that have been putting in
>for years with nothing to
>show for it would be
>nice to see a glimmer
>of light at the end
>of the tunnel.

It's not BS. We are talkin top tier. There are tags that you can draw with 0 points in some states but they are NOT top tier. If somebody is pulling a top tier tag with 0 points then it is because there are RANDOM tags to draw, not because of their points. Go check the best units in each state and prove me wrong. Henry Mountains and the Pauns in Utah 20+ points. The strip in Arizona 20+. Nevada 115 deer has less than a 5% chance of drawing with 25 points!! The same goes for the BEST units in every state.

The best units are always going to take forever to draw, whether you're in a points system or a random system. That's just a fact. Top tier units do not get easier to draw in a point system.
 
>>There is not a western state
>>where the top tier units
>>take less than 20 years
>>to draw... Not a single
>>one, except Idaho and New
>>Mexico where you actually have
>>the chance to draw it
>>the first year you put
>>in.
>>
>>Any 20 year old kid getting
>>in on the points game
>>right now in ANY western
>>state with the intention to
>>draw a top tier unit,
>>will not draw before they
>>are 60, if they draw
>>at all.
>>
>>If you can't crunch the numbers
>>and see the point creep
>>then you really just won't
>>ever get it. Many of
>>the state agencies are already
>>seeing this and thus have
>>converted some of the tags
>>back to random. If the
>>point systems are so good,
>>why are some tags going
>>back to a random draw?
>>I see a whole lot
>>of upset people in the
>>future when they find out
>>that the bonus point systems
>>in the west are not
>>sustainable for any of the
>>top tier units. It will
>>make these tags less than
>>once in a lifetime because
>>many people just won't be
>>able to build the points
>>before they die or are
>>too old to hunt it
>>like they wanted to.
>>
>>Now if you are just looking
>>for mediocre units, point systems
>>aren't all bad there. The
>>question is are they better
>>than random? I'd say they
>>aren't. Most mediocre units in
>>Idaho have odds that you
>>can pull a tag every
>>5 years or so. That's
>>about the same as it
>>would take to build the
>>points and get a mediocre
>>tag in a point system.
>>
>>
>>So I guess I ask, where
>>is the benefit of the
>>points system?
>>
>>It's definitely not there in the
>>top tier units.
>>It's not there on the mediocre
>>units.
>>
>>I just can't see any of
>>the benefits of the point
>>system other than a person
>>who applies in multiple states
>>and they can create a
>>more concrete plan for when
>>they know they are going
>>to draw tags. For me,
>>there is just way too
>>much to lose out on
>>just so that you know
>>when you are going to
>>draw..
>
>
>which states have gone from points
>recently to random? just
>curious, i havent heard.
>
>
>
>Travis

Andrew already hit it. Most states went full bonus points originally, but realizing this was tough to sustain, they introduced random tags into the draw where you still have a chance even if you don't have the points. Utah and Arizona are good examples.
 
Post #10

"We regularly debate the merits of random draws versus a point system. Let's not blow up this thread about draw results and get a million notifications on an off-topic debate."...

Hahahaha

+1 no points! My father has 18 NR elk points in Colorado. After almost 20 years of waiting, it is now statistically impossible for him to draw a top tier unit in his hunting life. 0%.
 
391381430b.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-18 AT 06:40PM (MST)[p]> If somebody is pulling
>a top tier tag with
>0 points then it is
>because there are RANDOM tags
>to draw, not because of
>their points.

^^^ exactly my point my fair weather friend^^^

Most states have a points system that rewards those with the highest points, but still gives everyone a long shot chance of drawing. Guys draw the Henry?s every year with little to no points. This year people with 2,3 & 4 points all drew Henry?s or puans tags, so just because it is likely to take 20+ years there is still a chance.
I agree a straight point only system sucks, but what's not to like about a point system that rewards those with the highest points, also at the same time sets aside some of the tags for lucky random.
The thing that sucks about a complete luck of the draw system is you might put in for a tag your whole life with a 10% random chance of drawing and never draw. Where as if there was a 50% go to points and 50% go to random system you most likely pull a couple tags in your life.
 
>>>No pts 3 year waiting period.
>>>
>>Agree with this!!
>
>
>how about 5 year waiting period
>after hunts with <10% draw
>odds? all others 3
>years.
>
>
>Travis

Yes!, Yes!, Yes!!!!!!

Justin
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-18 AT 11:36PM (MST)[p]>I got in the points game
>about 15 years ago. Took
>me about 3-4 years to
>figure it all out. When
>I realized it was a
>scam I got out and
>never went back.


This is my 15th year applying for most western states and I've drawn 20 tags in those 15 years. It's worked out extremely well for me.


"Go hunt for meat at Walmart."
 
>>>There is not a western state
>>>where the top tier units
>>>take less than 20 years
>>>to draw... Not a single
>>>one, except Idaho and New
>>>Mexico where you actually have
>>>the chance to draw it
>>>the first year you put
>>>in.
>>>
>>>Any 20 year old kid getting
>>>in on the points game
>>>right now in ANY western
>>>state with the intention to
>>>draw a top tier unit,
>>>will not draw before they
>>>are 60, if they draw
>>>at all.
>>>
>>>If you can't crunch the numbers
>>>and see the point creep
>>>then you really just won't
>>>ever get it. Many of
>>>the state agencies are already
>>>seeing this and thus have
>>>converted some of the tags
>>>back to random. If the
>>>point systems are so good,
>>>why are some tags going
>>>back to a random draw?
>>>I see a whole lot
>>>of upset people in the
>>>future when they find out
>>>that the bonus point systems
>>>in the west are not
>>>sustainable for any of the
>>>top tier units. It will
>>>make these tags less than
>>>once in a lifetime because
>>>many people just won't be
>>>able to build the points
>>>before they die or are
>>>too old to hunt it
>>>like they wanted to.
>>>
>>>Now if you are just looking
>>>for mediocre units, point systems
>>>aren't all bad there. The
>>>question is are they better
>>>than random? I'd say they
>>>aren't. Most mediocre units in
>>>Idaho have odds that you
>>>can pull a tag every
>>>5 years or so. That's
>>>about the same as it
>>>would take to build the
>>>points and get a mediocre
>>>tag in a point system.
>>>
>>>
>>>So I guess I ask, where
>>>is the benefit of the
>>>points system?
>>>
>>>It's definitely not there in the
>>>top tier units.
>>>It's not there on the mediocre
>>>units.
>>>
>>>I just can't see any of
>>>the benefits of the point
>>>system other than a person
>>>who applies in multiple states
>>>and they can create a
>>>more concrete plan for when
>>>they know they are going
>>>to draw tags. For me,
>>>there is just way too
>>>much to lose out on
>>>just so that you know
>>>when you are going to
>>>draw..
>>
>>
>>which states have gone from points
>>recently to random? just
>>curious, i havent heard.
>>
>>
>>
>>Travis
>
>Andrew already hit it. Most states
>went full bonus points originally,
>but realizing this was tough
>to sustain, they introduced random
>tags into the draw where
>you still have a chance
>even if you don't have
>the points. Utah and Arizona
>are good examples.

gotcha. i was reading it as they completely went away with points all together. thx


Travis
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Idaho Hunting Guides & Outfitters

Bearpaw Outfitters

Idaho Deer & Elk Allocation Tags, Plus Bear, Bison, Lion, Moose, Turkey and Montana Prairie Dogs.

Urge 2 Hunt

We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, whitetail, bear, lion and wolf hunts and spend hundreds of hours scouting.

Jokers Wild Outdoors

Trophy elk, whitetail, mule deer, antelope, bear and moose hunts. 35k acres of private land.

Back
Top Bottom