Arizona App Help

B

BigWay

Guest
OK here's the deal, I want to start gaining some preference points for Az. I have no intentions on going for a long time just want to gain points. My wife just had our first baby so I'm in no hurry. The way I understand it is I should buy a hunting liscense for 113.50 and gain a bonus point that way(I'm a nonres) then I would apply for a tag, get rejected and gain another point that way? Can you apply just for a point like in CO. or do you just apply for a unit you have no shot drawing and do it that way? The liscense ap is online on the Az. web site, seems pretty straight forward. What about the tag/unit app? Do they sent the booklet or can you do that online as well? I know I can pay some consulting outfit like USO to do it for me, but with a little help I think I can handle it myself. Thanks for any replies.
 
You are correct, you have to purchase the Hunting License to gain the bonus point. If you want to accumulate bonus points for elk, just apply for one of the early rifle Bull elk hunts that has only a few tags and for deer the rifle hunts in 13 are hard to draw. If you are lucky and draw find a way to go. The tag/unit information will be online later, probably in April. You may still be able to download last year's regs. No need to pay a consulting outfitter. If you need any additional information send me an e-mail.
 
You can do everything online. Just remember that when you put in that you make sure you check the box that says to buy the license even if you don't draw. We forgot to do that 2 years ago and didn't get the bonus points when we didn't draw. I don't think I would put in for the strip unless you would be sure you could go if you drew. It is so hard to get a tag that if you ever do you REALLY got to go. And you would probably want to hire a guide because it is such a big area and such low deer numbers. It would be your luck to put in to get the bonus points and actually draw the tag.
 
It will not work for deer, as all units have more than 45 tags (4 is the maximnum party size), but nonresidents can apply as a party that puts them over the 10% cap om tags. For elk, do yourself buying the license for points and your wife, not buying the license, in a party for an elk hunt with 10 tags. Her application costs $5 extra, and assures you will not draw, as two tags will be over the 1 tag allowed to go to a nonresident.
 
OK ELMERFUDD let me try to get this straight. I apply for a liscense($113.50= 1 pt) then apply for a tag($366= 1pt). Now you say to have my wife apply for a tag (no liscense) and go in as a party of two. That way I have absolutely no shot of drawing as a party? Am I getting this right? By the way I'm not interested in a deer tag. If I do apply by myself and by some stroke of dumb luck I draw, worse things could happen right! I guess I would just HAVE to go(wink wink). What elk units and hunts give me the worst draw odds? I don't want to "accidently" pull the tag until I can swing it with money/family! Thanks.
 
BigWay:

I'll try and explain the system as best I can and try not to confuse both you and me. :) First off Arizona has a Bonus Point system rather than a Preference Point system. Basically, the difference is under the Bonus Point system you could draw a tag your first year applying, as the computer draws random hunt numbers assigned to each application. The more bonus Points you have the better chance the computer will assign you a lower number (kind of buying lots of lottery tickets) A Preference Point system draws from those hunters with the most preference points on down until the allotment is filled.

You are only allowed to accumulate 1 Bonus Point per year in Arizona per species. So, you do NOT get a bonus point for the license and then another for the tag. You simply have to buy the license to accumulate a point. Example: I put in for an elk tag with no points and do NOT wish to have a license if unseccessful in the draw. If I am not drawn I will NOT get a point because I didn't buy the license. However, had I bought the license anyway I would have acquired a bonus point.

Your best bet is to apply for an early bull rifle hunt with only 10 or so tags and purchase the license even if drawn. You will probably not get drawn and will acquire a bonus point. If you do get drawn, go buy some lottery tickets, and get ready for the hunt of a lifetime. :)

Hope it helps and wasn't too confusing.

BOHNTR )))------------>
 
Yes. Pick unit 10 early rifle bull (or any other hunt with no more than 14 tags). 10 early rifle bull is the toughest draw. Check the buy license option for yourself, not for your wife. If you do internet, they will charge the card your license fee ($113.50), plus the two application fees of $5. You will get the point and can not draw. You will need to add two tag fees and will get the refund if you do paper.
 
Ok, so i start putting in for say 13b on the strip and start paying 113.00 for a lic (and a tag) each year so I earn a bounus point or draw the tag. I'm 32 right now. What are my chances of drawing in my lifetime for say 13b? Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't a guy put in for a bonus point as a non resident in utah, and will only be charged the $5 dollar handeling fee if not drawn. It just seems to me that the average guy should be able to earn a bonus point without forking over 113.00 per year. Just my two cents. Not wanting to fuel an argument.

cabinfever
 
Like Bohntr said.. There is always a chance to get drawn, even if it is your first time. So you might get drawn for 13B your first time. If I am not mistaken ( Which I could be ) I have read other place on this site that a Non-Resident licence for Arizona is still cheaper than most of the other states non-resident licence fees. So $113.00 bucks is not that bad for a chance to get drawn for some of the most sought after tags there is for Deer, Elk and Antelope.. I am not even talking about the once in a life time hunts like BigHorn and Buffalo..

Just me 2 cents
 
Actually, I do not mind the AZ license so bad, as you can bowhunt deer with over the counter permits, and usually get a javelina tag. Makes a nice January hunt. NV is more expensive, and has no OTC deer at all. NV is the one that urinates me off big time, costing around $250 nonrefundable and nonusable to cover the field.
 
It does gall quite a few folks to pay the NR license fee just to secure a BP. The one solace you can take is the wide-ranging hunting opportunities that license provides you if you can get out to AZ. We have wonderful dove & quail hunting in numerous spots around the state. The waterfowl hunting can be surprisingly good as well. You can also take advantage of the aforementioned archery deer hunts in Aug/Sept/Dec/Jan, as well as a fairly easy to draw Javelina tag. That $113 doesn't sound like such a rip-off now does it?
Good Luck in '04
 
the bonus point is a rip off, but if you pop for the 113$ dont be a fool, put in for every animal to get a point for every species. Reason why is because a percent of tags go to individuals who have at least one point. You never know what you may want to hunt down the road so find the worst odds in drawing and apply with a credit card. If you apply for one you may as well apply for sheep,deer,elk and lopes.
 
Don't buy the bonus point if it's such a rip off. Hopefully they will start charging cards the whole tag fee up front when you apply on the internet. This will be proposed at the April 17th F&G meeting in PHX..........
 
AZ402 I totally agree with you. It was not that long ago that we did have to pay up front for the tag. Yes we got a refund if we did not get drawn but I think if everyone had to pay for the tag upfront it would substantilly reduce the number of people applying. I do not mind the license fee inasmuch as I try to go turkey hunting, maybe Kaibab or coues archery hunt etc even though I don't get my elk tag. I sure hope the game and fish goes back to the upfront payment suystem. jim
 
Can you really sit there and say its a "good price" for a bonus point? All greed for tags aside,cmon, get real. I do buy the point once in a while but unless you are living in or near the state its a crock. This has been talked about many times before and USO is a lot of the reason there is a sore spot about the ridiculas bonus point cost. Cleverly hidden in a loophole that says you need a license to get a point rather than actually buying a point. Why it strikes a sore spot with AZ residents i dont understand as nonresidents do not compete for tags under the 10% rule, they only compete against other nonresidents for that 10% of tags until the 10% is lifted (or has it been).
I could care less about the actual price of the tag myself and front plenty of money each year for applications but when you shell out that kind of money for a point that is robbery.
Be happy your prices are so cheap because of nonresident hunters flipping the bill to hunt everyones federal land.
 
Help me understand. Whats the big difference between charging your credit card up front or charging your card when you draw? Both ways you have to have the credit limit on your card to cover the charges. I guess its a little more hassle to get the refund and pay it on the card bill and I guess theres a little interest lost. I dont think charging the card up front will cause enough of a hardship to deter people from applying for everybody and everything. Whats the big deal?
 
fin little:

The way it is set up the AZGF doesn't charge your card until the results of the draw are in. So basically, if you're drawn the full amount is applied; if not only $5.00 is applied for processing.

I am a non-resident and have applied for YEARS to the wonderful state of Arizona. I don't mind paying for the license, as I bowhunt there every year for OTC deer. I used to like having to put up ALL the money....sort of separated the men from the boys if you will. :) Best of all, it increased your chances of being drawn. Come to think of it, I wish they didn't even allow applications over the internet.....maybe then I'd get drawn. Hey Stan, how about a recall for internet processing? :)

BOHNTR )))-------------->
 
BOHNTR, I get how taking the credit card option away would improve drawing odds, I just dont get how charging the credit card up front instead of when you draw would make much difference. This seems to be a big deal with the Az boys here and on the bowsite. I'm just trying to understand the benifit from hitting my card in may as opposed to july. Its not that big of a deal to put the refund back on the credit card bill. I too buy the licence every year. Its not that big of an investment for a world class hunt when drawn. I'm sitting on 9 elk points . Its a drop in the bucket for the hunt you get.
 
Fin I agree for you and me, and other serious hunters, the upfront payment is no big deal. However with the way it is now many more people who might not be a serious will apply if it only cost $5.00 unless you get drawn. I know it sounds silly but I am sure there are many not so serious hunters that think twice before paying $400.00 for an out of state hunt. Maybe not but I simply believe it to be so. If that would result in just 10% fewer applicants I would be happy with that reduction. Any increase in my chances is a plus. That is my 2 cents worth. jim
 
The up front charge would make nonresidents charge around $2000 to do sheep, deer, elk, antelope and have to pay interest. Guys who put in their wife and buddy just to hunt on their tags would be cut, plus anti's in to get tags away from hunters would have to think real hard about that. If you are in the position to go nonresident hunting, I doubt that fronting the money would matter. Resident prices are low enough that it will not matter to residents, unless AZ eventually loses all appeals on the USO suit.
 
If I still lived in AZ I would agree with Stan, but since I dont and still have 6 bonus points for deer the way it is now is a life saver. If things were still the old way theres no way I could put in. I'm sure everybody that lives there hates the thought of out of state guys getting tags, but some of you that are guides should not be complaining at all Stan ( wink wink)!
 
Someone mentioned that as a non-resident they are picking up the tab on "all of our federal land". I assume they are meaning that its all federal land so resident and non-resident alike should have equal access. I would like to point out that in AZ there is alot of State Trust Land and not all BLM land. The AZGFD works on projects for wildlife enhancement regardless if its state or federal land. Our conservation group Arizona Deer Association funds numerous AZGFD projects and we dont make decisions based on State Land vs. Federal land. My whole point is as residents, we do pay more in taxes on state land and non-residents dont so the argument about it all being "common land" doesnt hold weight.......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-04 AT 02:14AM (MST)[p]schmalts,
Not so. Nonresidents do not have a 10% setaside of available tags in AZ. They do compete in the same pool as the residents with NO MORE THAN 10% of the tags for elk and deer north of the CR allowed to be drawn by NR applicants. It could be 10%, 7%, 5% or 0%, all determined by the luck of the draw.
 
Another thing to consider, when charging people up front for the tag,is mailing costs. A few years back the AG&F quite mailing out the dreaded pink cards to the unsuccessful applicants . I dont remember how much money it saved, but it was substantial. If the money is required up front, they will spend alot to mail refunds.
 
Fin I would not object to the game and fish charging another dollar or two for additional adminstration fees for mailing out refunds if we could go back to the upfront payment system if that had any chance of reducing the number of applicants. jim
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-04 AT 11:38AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-04 AT 11:37?AM (MST)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm so tired of the whining and crying about this stupid crap. AZ isn't the only state that makes you buy a license to get a point. Idaho makes you buy a license whether you draw a tag or not and you get no benefits towards the next years draw. NV is more expensive than AZ and harder to draw, you have to buy the license to get the point. There are guys like BOHNTR and caelkhnter that get it. And beardown don't start being a whiner (I'll put your app fee on my card if it's a big deal).

Another thing I always hear is that non-res generate more money than residents. I'm not saying that it was said on this thread but I continually hear it. Well here is a little quick math. Let's just say for instance that there are 100 tags in a unit, 10 of which were drawn by non-residents. The 10 non-res tags with the hunting license included would come to $4850. The 90 tags from the residents would come to $9180, that's with just a regular class G hunting license not a hunt & fish combo. That's $ 4330 more from the residents.

The other common complaint is it's my federal land, I should be allowed to hunt on it. You are absolutely right. With the license that you buy to get your bonus point you can hunt and or fish on your federal and BLM land in AZ. We have over the counter archery turkey in the fall over the counter bear and a very generous archery deer season. There is also year round lion hunting which is over the counter. You can bird hunt ducks, quail and even a few chukar, grouse and pheasant. You can come hunt varmints and rabbits year round on federal land. There is even a squirrel season for all you guys to come out and hunt. So come on out and use the lands at your conveyance.

I wish I could give guys like BOHNTR and caelkhnter an AZ tag every year but I can hardly get one myself. So dry it up and play by the rules like everyone else does. And beardown call me about the MT lope tags.
 
Wouldn't those refunds be nothing more than an electronic credit back to your credit card? If you purchase an item with your credit card most retailers will only refund your monies through their credit card machine so as to maintain a paper trail of the refund. If they gave you back cash, or in the case of the AZG&F, a refund check, an unscrupulous customer could perform a "chargeback" and end up with a refund check and a refund on their credit card account. Trying to resolve it is a nightmare as, unfortunately, I speak from experience when one of our customers pulled this on us.

This issue is sure to be charged with as much emotion as any regarding NR, BP's, and any potential trophy tag in AZ. Like finlittle has stated, he knows how good the elk hunting can be in the units he applies for and he's not going to stop applying no matter how they administer the draw. He's doing it right and he knows what he wants out of the draw. If it takes him 10 years to get another opportunity, he'll patiently wait. No different than my dogged pursuit of a muley tag in the Strip and on the Paunsaugunt. Requiring the monies to be paid upfront should discourage the muliple apps from a family of hunters where some of the members in the household may not be as fervent as other in their desire to draw a NR tag.

finlittle, you have to be hoping you draw that tag in '04 as the region you like to hunt has had nice quantities of soaking rainstorms that should produce another season of great antler growth for the bull elk, including another one today. I'm up to 5 BP's so maybe we'll both get lucky this Fall. Good Luck.
 
I was just asking what the benifit was to charging the card up front. I really didnt see the deterent. I can see you Az boys point and I'm all for anything that increases my odds. FYI I feel like having to purchace a hunting licence to gain a point is a good thing. I know alot of people who apply in Az and dont buy a licence. As long as they dont, it just increases my odds.While were on the the subject of changes that could make the Az draw more fair to everyone and increase the odds of hunting more often, heres an idea. Instead of worring about credit cards, push for a higher % of tags in the bonus pool. Utah gives 50% of the tags to the applicants with the most bonus points. Az has alot of quality elk hunts. By giving half the tags to max bonus point holders you could cycle through everyone much quicker. The people just starting to build points would still have a shot, but the system would still weigh heavy for the people who have had the dedication to build points.It worked in Utah with deer tags. It only took 7 years to run the majority of hunters through. The ADA and the Az elk society have alot of clout with the AZG&F. They could make it happen. Az Bucksnort, thanks for the weather up date. I would like to spend a couple of weeks on my favorite elk unit next sept with a bow.I always go with a camera but I'm ready to hunt Az elk again.I'm going to spend 20 hours in a hunter safty class next week to hurry it up .
 
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-04
>AT 11:38?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-04
>AT 11:37?AM (MST)
>
> I>hear it. Well here
>is a little quick math.
> Let's just say for
>instance that there are 100
>tags in a unit, 10
>of which were drawn by
>non-residents. The 10 non-res
>tags with the hunting license
>included would come to $4850.
> The 90 tags from
>the residents would come to
>$9180, that's with just a
>regular class G hunting license
>not a hunt & fish
>combo. That's $ 4330
>more from the residents.
>
> Did you add the amount in for the guys who buy a bonus point every year and never hunt??? I think you forgot a huge amount of money in your calculation stan. Just for giggles do it again using the numbers of applicants for a unit and add up a conservitive number of guys who probably bought a point. I dont blame you for the way you feel, and i dont like the Credit car apps myself because i admit i am a greedy bastard for tags as well but you need to look at the other side of the coin. regardless of what other states do its a crock... I got 5 points and had to buy 3 of them because i was too damn stuipid. I hunted for deer 4 years and didnt apply for all the other tags. That was my main point about if your going to spend the 113$ apply for everything, but maybe that it the comment that hit a sore spot more than the one about the price of a point.
 
I look at it this way if the Fish and Game said you could hunt 13a or 13b tomarrow for $1100 you(most of us) would do it quick. I can come up with $118 easier per year than I can $1100 so buying the license to get a point isn't that big of deal to me. I have been buying the point for a few year aready wish I would of been smarter and brought elk points at the same time.
 
>I look at it this way
>if the Fish and Game
>said you could hunt 13a
>or 13b tomarrow for $1100
>you(most of us) would do
>it quick. I can come
>up with $118 easier per
>year than I can $1100
>so buying the license to
>get a point isn't that
>big of deal to me.
>I have been buying the
>point for a few year
>aready wish I would of
>been smarter and brought elk
>points at the same time.
>
You lost me there bro, splain to me what you mean?
 
It take about 9-10 years or there abouts to draw a tag(Trophy area only Like the strip) for NR so if I put in $118.00 for that many years, I would have how much invested in 10 yrs =$1180,( buying a license every year) so what I'm saying is it the AZ fish and Game offered me a tag(trophy area like the strip)) today for that price I would jump on it, just like a ton of other folks.It just like saving account that I will never get back,at $10 a month. Buying a license isn't that bad but what is, Is buying those licenses for several states that sure does add up, Then that saving account go up from $10 a month to $60 a month adds up to around $720 year.Then we get started on Elk tags well I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
 
I don't get too worked up about buying a NR license in AZ every year. I'm confident that if I'm lucky enough to remain healthy and stay alive, I will get to hunt AZ elk again in a few years. I will likely have about $1,500.00 too somewhere around $2,000.00 invested in the hunt (fuzzy math). I don't doubt that if AZ could sell off these same tags to the highest bidder, they could get $5,000.00, maybe even $10,000.00 a piece, if not more. In other words, if you play the game and stay faithful, one day your going on one heck of a hunt for a small portion of its value.
A while back I was at Disney Land. While waiting in ride lines for extended periods of time I couldn't help notice how a few people got to move to the front and get on the ride before me. This seemed extremely unfair and after a few times I asked the ride attendant why this was. I was told that these individuals had special tickets that cost more than mine. They were willing to spend more to get the same opportunity quicker.
I admit that I don't like throwing out cold hard cash on AZ hunting licenses just to gain a bonus point. But I have learned to accept what I cannot change. I'm thankful that actually getting a tag isn't very important to me. I get just as big a kick out of viewing AZ's wildlife.
 
fin little,
Are you taking that NR AZ Hunter Ed course in Kingman with Don Martin? If so, he's a folksy good ol' boy and puts on an interesting class. You should enjoy yourself all things being considered.
 
Hey guys,
This may be a little off topic, if so, i'm sorry.
I'm going to be hunting in AZ this year with an OTC deer tag. Since I would have already bought the license, can you now apply for the special draws in 2005 under the same license or do you need to buy another license for 2005 to put in for the special draws.

Thanks,
 
hogwild, your current hunting licence works just fine for applying in the draws. Azbucksnort, Az wont recognize a Ut hunter safety class taken before 1980. In order to take the nonresident class you need a valid card dated since 1980. I did spend sat April 4th touring the Kingmen area while my brother completed Don's course. We made a Vegas weekend out of it. I did visit with Don a little. He's pumped about the rains and the Quail. I'm stuck taking the full resident class in Fredonia.
 

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