Vital area

[lefty]

I'm confused. I've killed whitetails and mulies, but am still a virgin on elk, haven't even seen one on three trips but thats going to change. I,ve assumed that the vital area was pretty much the same on deer and elk, and placing the shot at the crease behind the shoulder on a broadside shot would get the job done quickly. I just read an article where the author said an elk should be shot thru the shoulder to get the heart, and therefore, go down a lot quicker. He said they are more likely to go a longer distance with a lung shot. Anything to his theory? I felt that if I aimed at the crease and missed by a couple of inches either way I would still get in the vitals. I would also appreciate any comments on shots at animals quartering toward or away, and head on. When I do get the chance, I don't want to screw it up taking a stupid shot or poor placement. I want my only problem to be shaking like a leaf. I've been shooting a lot from different positions out to three hundred yards, and can get them inside 12 inches consistantly at that distance. Should I take shots at that distance with the results I have had or not. I have been told that an elks vital area is about 18 inches in diameter.
Any advice you guys can give me will really be appreciated!

 

[BlackTimber]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-04 AT 11:01PM (MST)[p]Lefty, I sure hope that that 300 yrds is a typo. Man if you can consistantly hit a 12" circle at 300 yrds you are the man!

I'm not trying to be criticle but if you are shooting 12" circles at 30 yrds, keep working towards tighter groups. I don't know how long you have been shooting or how old you are. You must decide for yourself on what you feel comfortable shooting. Personaly if I can't consistanlty put the arrows in an 8" circle at any givin yardage then that is out of my range for elk. Yes, 8" is smaller than the elks whole vital area, but this also gives me room for errer and still get in the sweet spot. "Shoot through the shoulder?" I don't think so, not with a bow. A rifle yes. Aim for the creese. You must also look at bone anatomy. What looks like the shoulder bone, isn't necessarily. The blade runs at a 45 degree angle.
As far as elk running? I've killed 3 elk with my bow, and have watched 2 fall. The other went 70 yards and piled up. Truth be told I have seen more elk run from a rifle shot then from an arrow.

 

[elk_horn]

I agree with BlackTimber... you make a good shot in the vitals on an elk with a broadhead...he wont go far usually 40 to 70 yards he's down for the count!

 

[WHITETAIL3]

Their are so many things to consider when killing animals...angels,distance(how good of a shot you are)the rifle you use, the bullet choice.....I would not preach to anyone to shoot at the shoulder of an elk....unless you know were to aim(can shoot) and have a weapon capable of penatration and also a bullet that will stay together....also a 12" circle is pretty good shooting, but thats a big group size to be aiming at the shoulder at that distance(consider the lungs).....now if you keep practicing and get to were you can shoot 3" groups at 300 yards, then you have a chance if you have a gun capable of penatrating/and bullet....Thats still going to be risky since elk are so thick and big boned...I would forget about the shoulder after 200 yards and aim at the lungs...
I shoot crop damage permits for whitetail, and have killed more deer than i can remember...30 to 50 a year..Some have to be shot so they will run in the woods , others you have to put them down in their tracks....Farmers don't want the carcass in their fields so you can save yourself alot of dragging if you shoot them right......I usually aim at the center of the shoulder and a little low (beware of high shoulder shots)on deer i want to drop inn their tracks, or the head/neck/spine....I have missed the heart completly on alot of shoulder shots and still dropped them in their tracks...I beleave the shock of those shots is what puts them down...The heart is usually like gello...and if you look at the location of were the bullet entered and exit, alot of times you realize that you did't even hit the heart, So it has to be either the shock or you hit the main vessol going from the heart to the brain(the aorta i think its called)...(also I try to hit both shoulders)perfectly broad side deer with perfectly placed bullets will fall 95% of the time...I have had quite a few run on ones that i missed hitting both shoulders....Grant it killed them, but they run....
On ones we want to make it to the woods we shoot a non expanding bullet thats mid weight and aim at the lungs...they can run several hundred yard shot like this...If you shoot them with a bullet that expands greatly some will fall just like you shot them in the shoulder/head/spine/or neck...also liver shots work well to let them run, but I don't usally aim for it because it takes a while to kill a deer, and i don't want to see something suffer....on quartering aimals you have to aim at your exit hole and know your going to penatrate the vitals..A elk quartering at you would be tough...I think i would wait until i had a better shot or shoot the neck...I want an exit hole on shots you think they will run on .....I hope this helps but, alot more expeirenced elk hunters could probally teach you better than I....I would think a good elk guide could teach you more than you could learn inn a lifetime on your own....

 

[threelemonbob]

With a rifle quartering away shoot for the off shoulder, broadside either in the shoulder or in the crease like you said, quartering to you either in the shoulder or in the neck just in front of the shoulder, facing you dead center low in the brisket. Shooting an elk in the shoulder is good usually they will go down quick but i always aim just behind the shoulder because i want to make sure and get vitals. Shoot them in the lungs man they'll go down fast enough.

 

[Deerlove]

I hit a bull square in the front shoulder at 300 plus yards and it didn't even break the front shoulder.

 

[WHITETAIL3]

I was thinking you had better have a heavy bullet and a gun with some a$$ to get through a elk shoulder at any kind of distance(over 200 yards). Even close range with a small caliber your asking for trouble, I would say. But again I have never shot one in the shoulder....

 

[lefty]

guys, I really appreciate your help. I'll be 69 years old in July and I don't have a lot of hunts left, so I want to make the best of it. I'm shooting a Ruger 7mm mag. with 160 Nosler Partitions, and the 12 inch groups are at an 18 inch square
target--- not an elk!
I've been on three unguided hunts in Montana since 1999, and this fall we are hunting with an outfitter (Lost Creek Outfitters)between Yellowstone and Livingston Mt. Hopefully we'll have some success, but if not we'll have the experience.
I think I'll stay with shooting at the crease and forget the shoulder unless I'm real close.
Thanks again

 

[WIDOW_MAKER]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-04 AT 09:24PM (MST)[p]I've killed a buck with my bow and hit it in the rear. Went 50 yards and dropped. The next year(last year) i shot a 6 point bull elk in the rear with a 30-06. Lost it!

 

[fisrtcoueswas80inches]

the theory is that elk are big strong tought animals. there are pros and cons to shooting a elk in the heart/lungs and the shoulder. A. shoulder: most likely with the right bullet, will put them down and has a chance of catching a vital. but if you do put it through the shoulder and it doesnt go down then what? elk can run suprisingly fast on 3 legs. and if you loose the trail what happens? you loose a extremly injured elk. but if you put a bullet through the heart/lung area, you are GUARNTEED to kill this animal. i would always go for a vital shot instead of a crippling shot. maybe if you get a vital shot on the animal and he goes down and get back up, then i would aim for the shoulder to try to pin him after he has been fatitally wounded.
casey
ps, y the hell did u shoot an elk in the arse???

 

[elk_horn]

Widow_maker why? are you shooting these animals in the Butt???
just curious why someone would shoot an animal in the butt????

 

[WIDOW_MAKER]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-04 AT 03:30PM (MST)[p]Didn't mean to shoot it in the ass. It was just bad shooting. I new I was shooting towards the right and I aimed for the shoulder and shot right, so it hit the ass. It happened all fast. The elk sat down like a dog and then got back up and took off. Shot two more times and missed. 200 yard shot. First shot ever at a elk. Should have practiced more. Hunted elk since I was 14 I was sixteen(last year) when I shot the elk. I wish I had a 7mm.

Hell, here's the story:

I drew out for the Youth Any Bull hunt. Scouted and found a few bulls. Opening morning, 6 point steps out, I shoot, I hit, I follow blood trail ALL DAY, Lost him. The bull was seen 2 days after that and 10 days after. Went back up to find him on the last day of the hunt. I found him. He was too far away. Never saw him again.

 

[wtflash]

Lefty,for what it is worth,I shot a bull through both shoulders with my trusty 270 w/150 gr.nosler part.at 274 yards.He was dead before he hit the ground.

 

[RLH]

punch em through the lungs. maybe try to get the heart, but hit em in the lungs. might go 100 yds or so. elk aren't elephants. they're bigger than a deer and take a little more gun. wouldn't bother me to hunt em with a .243. just have to call your shot. i've never seen a .270 or '06 fail to crunch the shoulder on a bull at a realistic range. i've killed a bunch of em with a bow. it ain't got near the punch as any rifle. it's all a matter of marksmanship. Karamojo Bell killed thousands of elephants with a 7x57 mauser. he knew what he was doing. don't try to make up for poor marksmanship with a big gun. if you have a big gun, take it. if you have a .270, take it. but make sure you know what you're doing with it. the 7mm mag with 160 gr. bullets should work just fine. shoot the big part of em and don't worry about it. nothing dies quickly from a shoulder wound. you have to drive the bullet through the shoulder and into the heart and lungs. if you punch a hole through their lungs, they die and quick. every time.

 

[Hondoarcher]

I agree with RLH on the lung shot. If you let the air out of an elk he will not go far. The loss of oxygen shuts their brain down very fast and they fall and pass out then die from the blood loss. I have taken three elk. The first I shot through the jugular vein (75 yard running shot through the trees with a 180 grain 30-06). I was lucky. He went down after 20 yards. I had to finish him with a neck shot. The second bull I put 3 rounds in him. Two through the lungs and one in the heart. He went 50 yards and was feeling ill the whole time. The last was single shot at cow using a 7mm mag at 30 yards. Put the shot just behind the sholder. She went about 40 yards and piled up.

On all of the chest shots the bullet was found under the skin on the opposite side. The skin streches and keeps the bullet from going through. None of the shots were more than 75 yards away.

I am still trying to get close enough to a bull during my archery hunts. I keep passing on the cows.

Good luck.

 

[TheHunt]

For the arrow and broadhead shot at 300 yards.

Humor!!! Do not really do this...

1. You would need to load a 410 shotgun hull with 7 grains of blue dot.
2. Cut the top of the hull so that it does not crimp.
3. Make sure the wad is secure against the powder.
4. Insert special hull that you just loaded into the shotgun.
5. Insert arrow with broad head into the barrel.
6. Aim gun and shoot. 300 yard shots with an arrow...

Humor over...

Any double lung shot on an elk will die within 75 yards. If you are really close and want to actually watch the animal drop aim about 2 inches behind the front elbow and two inches high. This will take out part of the heart, Lung, and liver. The elk really struggle to just stand up... Very cool...

2nd there are two arteries that run along the spine. If you shoot an elk about two inches off the side of the ass hole you should be able to get that artery. Now that is very percise shooting and I would not take the chance. But Chuck Adams wrote that he took an elk with this shot. So it has been used if you belive what is written.

TheHunt