So What is Quality??

Packout

Very Active Member
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The debate over quality vs quantity has been a hot topic lately. The unanswered questions is What is quality???? 5 years ago when someone shot a 330 bull, he was the stuff. Everyone congradulated him and his fine bull. Now it seem like a 330 bull gets a "Good Bull." response. Now the bull has to be 370+ for a "Wow" response. For those who have put in for 5+ years, a 330 bull was what was wished for and to find a 360+ was just a dream. Now every unit in the state produces 360+ regularly, so we have raised our goals.

What is Quality? Size of the bull? Timing of the hunt (rut)? Number of hunters afield?

For me quality is a solid mature bull, 5+ years old. Score doesn't matter, but I'd like six points per side. Hunter numbers don't concern me as long as there are enough bulls to go around in the 5+ year old range. Rut hunt would be the best experience.
 
Packout

QUALITY IS NOT HAVING 96,999 OTHER HUNTERS TO CONTEND WITH!!!

QUALITY IS HAVING A CHANCE AT A 350+ BULL!!!

QUALITY IS KNOWING THERE ARE 400 CLASS BULLS IN THE AREA,ALL YOU'VE GOT TO DO IS HUNT HIM DOWN!!!

QUALITY IS KNOWING BY DAY 3 80% OF THE TAGS ARE FILLED AND YOU HAVE NEARLY A WEEK LEFT WITH VERY LITTLE ELBOW TO A$$HOLE ACTION!!!

QUALITY IS SAYING:DAMN IT TOOK ME FOREVER TO DRAW THAT TAG BUT IT SURE WAS WORTH THE LIFETIME WAIT!!!

I COULD GO ON AND ON BUT IT'S BACK TO WORK SO I'LL QUIT BEFORE I AGGITATE SOMEBODY AGAIN!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING WHICH WILL COME FIRST???ME BEING TO OLD & CRIPPLED TO HUNT OR WILL QUANTITY TAKE ITS TOLL FIRST???
 
I have had limited experience, but I have hunted the Bridgier-Teton wilderness with everyone else (and was lucky to kill a small 6x6) and then the Jicarilla Res.(great hunt as long as a 320-330 bull is o.k. with you). I have yet to draw one of those tags in a unit where you should expect to kill a 350-370+ bull, but I am building points in UT,

I consider quality a hunt one where you can be into elk without a problem, not compete with a lot of other hunters and have a good chance at a 320 elk (bugling is a stron bonus). Now on the places where we wait 10-12-15 years, I want to have a decent chance at a 360 bull, but think that taking a 350 is very well within reason.

What many people need to realize is that a 350 (hell, a 330) is a GOOD bull when you consider the national average. then you consider that most folks are going to be non-residents wherever they have a chance to kill a good bull. Even westerners are not all in spots where 330 bulls are common. I may be rambling but I am very willing to wait 10 years at a good chance to kill a 350 bull. If the system in UT continues, it costs $5-10 a year to apply. I will wait 10 years for a good chance to kill a 330 bull...without a lot of luck any non-res (and all of us in the east are in this boat) are going to have to spend a lot of money for any decent hunt (draw or not) to have a hunt where a chance at a 300 bull is a good bet. Look at WY...You have to draw a tag, then the outfitters who regularly produce 300 bulls charge $3500-4000. That is Wiilderness area/public ground where you have to have an outfitter.

For the "average guy" now days, especially those from out of state - which includes 75% of the elk hunters (if looking for a GOOD bull) - a 300 bull is a money bull. What I mean is that hunts that regularly produce 300 bulls on a high percentage have hard tags to draw and outfitters in those areas charge a good bit of money.

I guess this is a view of an easterner (KY), but I think I have a pretty good handle on the elk hunters who don't live in the PREMIUM elk states. I hope to hunt a premium state one of these days, and any elk hunt I go on until I get one of those incredible tags, I'll shoot any 320 bull that gives me a shot...


Good Hunting...Tim Herald
www.grandslamhunts.com
 
Too many people get hung up on this score or that score. What makes "Quality" is the whole experience. I had a great muzz elk hunt last year and took a mature 6x6 bull at 40 yards but I've never had him scored. His score is only a small part of the whole experience. It was a great hunt that I will always remember as I look at him hanging on the wall.
 
Quality is like a "trophy", it is in the eye of the person who is experiencing the situation. We are all at different stages in our hunting career so we all have a different opinion as to what is a "trophy", and what is "quality".

To me quality on a LE unit is the experinece to be able to see a good number of mature bulls and being able to choose between shooting or not shooting a bull. A lot of areas that have a lot of hunters make you anxious to shoot the first mature bull you come across, regardless of score and size. The quality is in knowing that you can pass on good bulls time and time again, and you know you still have a good chance for a real monster, and that if you don't come across that monster, a great respectable bull can still be found with a little work.

A trophy is different to each hunter, and if we are able to harvest a bull in our "trophy range", then we can consider we have had a quality experience.

I don't think quality can be defined to an exact level as hunters are such a large and diversified group.
a*r

A bad day hunting is better than a Good Day at Work!!
 
Quality is leaving your tape measure and your ego at home and enjoying your hunt.
 
Someburro, couldn't have said it better. I was watching the other post of quality vs quantity and was quite surprised with the path the thread took. About three years ago I tagged along with my buddy on a Pahvant Muzzleloader hunt. This hunt was in Nov. and turned out to be a two week adventure. A long story short, had a great time chasing elk in three plus feet of snow and ended up taking a 6x6 that would score around 320. A monster, No but I'll tell you what, not a greater trophy has been taken in our eyes to this date. My .02.
 
Someburro,

I think you are onto something! The greatest hunts I have been on involve the experience and not whether or not my kill is the new state record or not! Enjoy the hunt and you will get a good bull. Lighten up guy's. A few more tags isn't going to kill any of you! Have a great day!

Chad
 
My guide had a huge 8X8- nontypical 390" bull located, but was blown out by a hunter at 3:30 am opening morning. I missed a chance at a 365" 7x7 that I couldn't get set up on. And after 9 days of working hard, took a 6x6 340" bull with my son at my side. I spent most of those nine days looking for the big 8x8 and it was a total quality hunt. I still look at the video of that pig, but I am not at all disappointed with the end result and admire the bull on my wall and the chance to share it with my son.
 
quality is drawing my tag and taking my bow for long hikes my dreams are of that 7x8 with my bow but i'll settle for the tag right now. ask me again after wyoming draws my name.
 
Having the time, money, and access to a elk tag (I don't care where or what) counts for about 90% of it for me. Actually seeing elk and getting a shot takes care of most of the rest. To me, the planning and chance to tell tales after the hunt are at least as much fun as the hunt itself. Killing something big is just a bonus. If it were easy to do, it wouldn't be such a big deal.
 
AS IT IS TODAY

BEATS THE HELL OUT OF HOW IT WILL BE IF IT CHANGES!!!

AND YA,SOME OF YOU ARE RIGHT,AS SOON AS I DRAW A LE TAG(WHO THE HELL KNOWS WHEN THAT MIGHT BE???)I'M GONNA START WHINNING FOR QUANTITY TO SEE IF IT WILL ENHANCE MY ODD'S OF EVER DRAWING AGAIN!!!

HANK JR SINGS A SONG CALLED:WHEN SOMETHINGS GOOD WHY MUST IT CHANGE,I THINK A FEW OF YOU OUGHT TO LISTEN TO THE SONG,IT IS THE TRUTH,AND THERE ARE ALOT OF THINGS HE MENTIONS THAT CHANGED OVER THE YEARS BUT NOT FOR THE GOOD!!!

DON'T START OVER HUNTING UNITS JUST BECAUSE A FEW TRIGGER HAPPY ELK HUNTERS WANT TO KILL A RAGHORN!!!(GO AHEAD AND HUNT THE HIGHLY COVETED GENERAL SEASON OPEN AREA'S!!!)

I'M ASKING THE QUESTION AGAIN,NOBODY ANSWERED ME LAST TIME I ASKED IT,DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MULE DEER HERD???

DON'T THINK FOR A SECOND IT CAN'T HAPPEN TO THE ELK HERD!!!

THE ONLY bobcat SIGNING OFF BEFORE SOMEBODY GETS AGGITATED!!!
 
Am I the only one who has had "quality" hunts for both spikes & cows?

Some guy's think a quality hunt is a $20k high fence "hunt." Others feel that any branch antlered bull fits the bill. We called in & killed a 280 bull last year on the 4th day in a Utah LE unit. To some that is a wasted tag, considering the experience & the fact that it was killed by an 84 year old man, it couldn't have been any better.

Everyone wants to kill the biggest bull on the mountain & there is nothing wrong with that. But if a person hunts a unit full of 350 bulls holding out for a 370 bull & ends up with a 300 bull on the last day, considers the hunt a failure, he's hunting for the wrong reason in my opinion?
 
I do not think your hunt was a failure. In fact I know first hand the details of your hunt. I was pleased to hear your grandpa (?) got a nice bull and was pleased with the experience.

Listen to youself though. Quality is the ability to have a chance at a 370 bull, knowing that the mountain has 350 bulls, but in the end you have an opportunity to thump a 280. You just described quality in my eyes.
 
KTC, well said. To achieve that we don't have to manage strictly for 370 class bulls, such as the Pahvant, SW Des, etc. The Manti, Wasatch, Fish Lake, etc and almost every unit in Utah produces 360-370+ bulls every year. These units are managed for a 1 year younger age class, but offer 3 times the opportunity.

"Leave the tape measure and ego at home." That is a good quote.
 
KTC - I saw a picture of the bull you killed in WY a few years ago. I know he was pretty busted up but I thought he was a great bull & was pumped at your success. I'm sure most hunts with you & your brother are quality in one way or another, even if your brother's horse rolls down the mountain=)

As long as someone defines quality by their own ideals it's justified, no matter what. However someone that defines quality by another persons standards, i.e. if you kill a 300 bull on Monroe don't even let the antlers show coming into town because of the ridicule, you probably aren't worthy to hunt elk.

I honestly think I was more excited over the first spike I killed than I was last year on my hunt?
 
QUALITY IS A BIG WORD

IN MY LIFE I'VE SEEN IT RUINED QUICKLY!!!

WHAT TOOK 5-6 YEARS AND SOMETIMES LONGER TO ACHIEVE HIGH QUALITY HAS BEEN COMPLETELY DECIMATED IN 1-2 SEASONS DUE TO GREED AND MISMANAGEMENT!!!

QUALITY IS SHOWING MY KID'S TROPHY ANIMALS THEY MAY OR MAY NOT EVER GET THE CHANCE TO HARVEST,BUT AT LEAST THEY GOT THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THEM!!!

QUALITY IS TEACHING MY KIDS IN THE MOUNTAINS THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS,ALSO TEACHING AND SHOWING THEM THINGS THAT TOOK ME 40 YEARS OF LEARNING THE OLD FASHIONED WAY,(NOBODY SHOWED ME),HOPEFULLY THEY CAN TAKE THIS KNOWLEDGE AND PUT IT WITH THE THINGS THEY LEARN AND PUT IT TO GOOD USE!!!

QUALITY IS GETTING INTO RUGGED ENOUGH LANDSCAPE THAT YOU CAN'T SEE OR HEAR ANY LAWBREAKING ATV'ERS!!!

QUALITY IS SEEING A YOUNG HUNTER WORK HARD TO TAKE HIS/HER FIRST ANIMAL!!!

QUALITY IS SEEING A YOUNG HUNTER(OR ANY HUNTER) PACKING BIG ETHICS ON HIS/HER SHOULDERS!!!

QUALITY GOES ON AND ON BUT CAN BE RUINED QUICKLY,LET'S USE THAT THING SITTING ON TOP OF OUR SHOULDERS AND KEEP 'QUALITY' AROUND FOR THE YOUNG HUNTERS COMING UP TO SEE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WISHING HE WAS GOING ON A 'QUALITY' HUNT,OH,WAIT A MINUTE I'VE GOT A HIGHLY COVETED GENERAL SEASON OPEN AREA TAG!!!(WITH 96,999 OTHER HUNTERS IT'S GOT TO BE A QUALITY HUNT!!!)
 
It all depends on different factors, Hunter, Area, Prior elk....
All different factors product the Quality of an animal. It shouldn't matter what other people think of your animal, if you are proud of it then you should believe that it is the quality animal you were looking for. No doubt, there will ALWAYS been animals out there bigger than what anyone kills. The point being, here's an example. For the first Time in my life This year I drew one of the best elk tags, if not the best elk tag in the state of nevada. I drew an Area 111-222 Archery Bull Elk tag. Middle of the rut, Archery, Couldn't have asked for a better, more thrilling hunt opportunity. Now I've hunted this area going on 10 years now, I know the "Quality" of animals that are there. Hence why I will not settle for anything under 390. Last year, Dan Bozarth drew the same tag, a good friend of mine. Mid 60's and he waited his whole life to draw this tag. He ended up taking a bull that he was thrilled to have. A buddy of ours, a guide from colorado who moved to vegas Called a 390+ bull into 90 yards and turned him broadside, from close to 1000 yards. This bull was absolutely Enormous. Dan coulda made the shot but the quality of the shot was just too hard to bare a bad shot placed. See it all depends on what you set your standards at. If you know the area, the type of bull the area produces then we all have different standards of quality.

So in conclusion Quality is all in the eyes of the hunter. If he believes it is a dink, someone might think it's a monster. It all depends on what you think, it's your animal not somone elses. You shouldn't let the remarks of somone deminish the pride that you took in taking that animal.



-Cass
 
Cass,
give me a break,
"Hence why I will not settle for anything under 390".
you carring a tape with you?
Mr Elk please stand ther while i measure you for size.
OPPS, your only 230 i thought you were around 400, you can go.
I shouldn't critisise.
For I'm taking the first 5 or 6 point i get a chance to put a bead on.
or a cow at the end of the hunt.
 
You guys are gonna be eatin your words when I get the video on here of these bulls. You have no idea what kinda bulls this guy can call in. I've seen my share of bulls and I know what a 390 bull looks like.


-Cass
 

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