CO Antler Point Restrictions? An Idea.....

CountingCoo · Jun 14, 2004

I have a question for everyone. I live in Colorado and live and hunt in a unit with over the counter bull tags, and a 4 point restriction.

What do you guys think about the following idea?

- Statewide 5 points on one side restriction on all bulls. No exceptions. Abandon 5" brow tine rule.-

- Increased use of either sex tags -

Within three years the number of quality bulls would increase dramatically. There would be more bulls in the woods in general.
The number of bulls killed would drop dramatically year one and two, but should increase steadily after that, with the quality of bulls increasing dramatically. The number of cow tags available could be increased so that hunters could still take elk, but perhaps not as many bulls.

More older age class bulls, more bulls in gneral, more intense rut, better sex ratios. What am I missing here?

Rather than negatively impacting tag sales, I believe the opposite would happen.

What do you think?

bowhuntinnut · Jun 14, 2004

Well for one they will never do this because the over all elk population is still way to high for there objectives. For two i think the same thing will happen as happened when we had the 3 point restrictions on the deer, there were way to many people ground checking the 2 points and that is why they got rid of that rule. Don't get me wrong i would love to see more big bulls around here but with the populations so high i just don' t think you would ever talk anybody into this idea. There are quite a few places that you can find good mature 5 point plus bulls in this state you just have to do your homework and get into some good shape to find them.

Bownut

COHunter · Jun 14, 2004

If they were serious about reducing the Elk population, Cow tags would be OTC and Bull Tags would be by drawing. Shooting Bulls does nothing to reduce population numbers. But the state wants to have all these Elk even if their numbers are wrong cause it brings in the $$money$$.

CountingCoo · Jun 14, 2004

I agree completely. You control game populations by taking more cows, right? Boost the cow tags.

They are already selling cow tags over the counter in some units anyway? As for ground checking there are many units already using point restrictions for elk. The point minimum would simply be increased. There will always be some idiots in the woods.

BeanMan · Jun 14, 2004

Leftover cow tags may be bought, for units where there are leftovers, at DOW offices but there are currently no OTC cow licenses.

I would love to see bull tags restricted and I am always happy to put a cow in the freezer.

BeanMan

hornaddiction · Jun 14, 2004

Hey BeanMan,

Do you bow hunt? If you do you can buy an OTC archery cow tag and still buy a bull license for archery or the rifle seasons. I know a resident of Colorado can do this in my local units but I am not sure if a non-resident can. Check your regs.

horn

Cowkiller · Jun 15, 2004

The four point restriction works well to grow bulls to two years old. A five point restriction would increase the percentage of bulls living to three years old but not by much. Here's why. At least half of the two year old bulls have five points and would be legal game. Also there are plenty of hunters that can't count to five accurately although they can tell the difference between a spike and a raghorn. There would be more bulls shot illegaly. The best way to get more mature bulls is to limit the number of bull tags. Limiting bull tags would also actually help control the elk population. Fewer bull hunters in the field would improve success rates for cow hunters. Also hunters that can't buy bull tags over the counter would be more inclined to obtain a cow tag and hunt hard for a cow. This has been proven in other states. Colorado does not need to reinvent the wheel. They just need manage their elk instead of milk them.

ELKMASTER101 · Jun 15, 2004

First of all colorado has 4 to 5 times as many elk than any other state,
and with that goes the number of bulls.
you just have to find them.
hell when you go out and in a good week count over 400 + elk and on any given day see 20 to 40 bulls.
and a most being 5 & 6 point bulls, and accausally a 7,
I would have to say that its already a healthy herd.
in just about every dark hell hole you can get into.
most of the complainers are road hunters..
Now road hunters should be illegal.

chambero · Jun 15, 2004

I think that at least parts of British Columbia has 6 pt restrictions. Has anyone been up there on trips before to offer any first hand info on how that works out.

I wouldn't mind a 5 pt restriction. I also agree with the posts that indicate that there are probably a lot more larger bulls out there than most hunters realize. The "dumb" young ones are just the only ones that are usually seen.

I don't have a problem with upping the point restriction. I don't see how it would really hurt anything, other than total harvest for a year or two. Increased use of ES tags would probably help that a lot.

BC_HUNTER · Jun 15, 2004

Hey i live and hunt in the region in BC where it is 6 point and better. Before the 6 point it was 3 point and there as elk everywhere, now there is very few elk. And as soon as one is even close to a 6 point it is shot on the spot. Its not working well at all here in BC. Did you notice that all other western states that used to have it got rid of it? I wonder why?
Just my two cents

- Warren

cohntr6 · Jun 15, 2004

YEs we have plenty of elk, plenty of bulls for that matter but how often do you see PUBLIC LAND bulls showing up in "Hunting Illistrated, Eastmans, and Trophy Hunter", etc. I receive most of these magazines or least thumb through them and the majority of public land trophy bulls come from AZ, UT, NV, MT. Holy crap these bulls come from limited units go figure! Colorado does put out some great bulls but they seem far and few between compared to the total population of elk we have. We have opportunity that is for sure, if a guy wants to kill 3 elk he can in 1 season legally (only 1 bull thankfully). Bottom line need to make more units draw. It should be interesting what happens in the next few months with that very subject going before the wildlife comission. Is it quantity ($$) or quality?
Jeff

TheKnack · Jun 15, 2004

I have seen too many bulls shot and left to rot as it is with the 4 point restriction. I think it would increase even more so if a 5 point rule came out.
Too bad some idiots shoot first before being sure a bull is legal but there are too many knuckleheads who cant count there fingers much less a rack in the woods.
I have reported the incidents to the DOW and they have never followed up or tried to even save the meat even when I have offered to help pack it out for them. Makes you sick seeing a bull dead and bloating up and knowing the idiot who did it is still in the woods hunting.
My opinion.
Best,
Jerry

rocketman · Jun 16, 2004

The answer is not a 5 point restriction
because the comments above are accurate;
to many will be shot and left. we
tried that with the 3 point deer and it
didnt work. THE ANSWER to the above is
more draw units for better quality. EVERYONE
knows that you manage populations by
controlling females. Males have almost no
impact on pop numbers. In todays Rocky
Mt News in the sports section an article
is on this topic(Wednesday). I will be
attending the July 1 comm meeting in Gunnison
to speak on this topic. Roy in Montrose

CountingCoo · Jun 16, 2004

LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-04 AT 09:14PM (MST)[p]There are more than a few units in Colorado already using a 4 point rule for elk. I have not heard that there is a problem with hunters shootoing elk and leaving them to rot where I hunt.

I killed a nice public land 5x5 last season that may well have not been around were it legal to shoot any antlered bull in the woods. I think it is ridiculous that there are ANY units where this is allowed to happen. I also think it is a ridiculous concept that elk cannot be managed because there are too may slob hunters in the woods. If that is the case then we shouldn't be surprised when none of us are allowed to hunt legally in the future.

I don't think it is necessary to make the entire state draw only in order to increase the precentage of older bulls in the woods. I see very few raghorns in my unit with 5 points on either side; many with 3 and a few with 4. I also see quite a few VERY young bulls killed around here that squeaked by on a 5" eyeguard. I am all for draw units, but would also like to see ALL other units on a point restriction.

There is absolutely no question in my mind that increasing the point restriction to 5 points and dropping the "or 5" eyeguard" rule would very shortly result in a very significant increase in 3 and 4 year old bulls, in my unit anyway.

As for the hunter in Alberta who blames a 6 point rule for "disappearing elk"; blaming this rule on declining elk numbers make absolutely no sense to me. There are obviously other causes.

TheKnack · Jun 16, 2004

If you check with the DOW you will see that all areas that have the 4-point restriction have huge problems with hunters leaving elk lay. Add to that the number that are not found or reported and it is a significant number.
There are way too many slob hunters in the woods and not enough DOW officers to cover all the reports which is a shame. I guess more attention would be paid to these idiots if Colorado's elk population was not the largest in the United States.
Problems=
Hunter see's an elk with antlers and is used to hunting smaller deer species and shoots first thinking it has to be legal.

Hunter has an either sex tag and thinks "if he see's brown it's down" and shot first before thinking or reading the regulations.

Hunter shoots an elk he thought was a cow and it turns out to be a spike bull because he shot first before being sure.

A group of hunters shoots into a herd of elk at 500-600 yards and kills many animals not aimed at.

Many hunters that come to this state think party hunting is legal. "It is not". They shoot there buddies elk only to find out he taged out already.

Hunter shoots a bull elk or moose thinking it is a buck deer. Happens every year. One year a hunter even shot a "mule" and brought it to a game check station thinking it was a cow elk.

Then there are the even more deliberate poachers that shoot elk for there racks out of season.
Add all of it up and it (is) very substantial even in your unit.

Yes there are more idiots in the woods than any of us would care to know. Maybe a class even if it was by mail or via internet to be passed before a license would be issued would help? If you do not pass then your SOL on hunting.

Many units that have four point restrictions have plenty of 5-point and better bulls if you look hard for them.
Unfortunately licenses are given to anyone no matter what there hunting ethics are.
My opinion.
Best,
Jerry