Beaver Deer Unit

slamdunk

slamdunk

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10,389
I have never seen a lower population of deer on a unit in Utah before as I am witnessing during the muzzy hunt this year. At this point I'd feel guilty killing a buck!
The feed and habitat are in horrible condition. We need a heavy winter with significant snow pack or we will be even more in trouble next year.
 
+1 I agree - seen nothing so far, pretty much a waste of my time, energy and PP. ATVs everywhere, range/browse/forage condition extremely poor-cows everywhere. Weather isn't helping, hot & dry. I'm sure there are bucks to be found, but it's super tough this year. Probably last time I'll hunt UT - will put all my time and energy into my Kaibab adventures.
 
I agree. We saw many hunters just shooting at anything that moved with antlers. Also witnessed a deluge of ATV's/UTV's all over the mountain that were not hunters, just leftover's from the ATV jamboree in Richfield/Marysvale area. Beaver mountain is getting overrun with these machines....good for the local economy I guess, but bad for hunters.
 
I was straight east two mountain ranges. The feed up high is gone. Some water holes that have not dried up in over ten years. Are dirt not even mud. The lakes are lower then I have ever seen. If we don't have a good snow year / water year. We are going to be in trouble.
 
NorthEastern TARDville Ain't No Better!

Illegal AsssssHoles on Side By Sides all over the Ballies in Flat Ass Closed Areas to Motorized!

Waters/Weeps I've never seen Dry are Dry this year!

The USFS doing Absolutely F'N Nothing to these Law Breakin Bittttches!

The Elk & Deer that are not already on Private Ground Will be to Find something to Eat & They'll Slaughter them again!

SAD that Nobody Cares that JACK-ASSES are Destroying Public Ground/Hunting!

I Suppose when things get Bad Enough they'll do something!

But it's already Too F'N Late!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Need to start taking the illegal atv crap into our own hands. You don't see that much in Colorado because they stick to their slogan, if you ride it in ain?t no way your riding it out. Those machines need tires, fuel, batteries you know... just sayin.
 
I also have been hunting the Beaver unit and have found it to be in worse shape than I have ever seen it over the past 30 years. I thought that the purpose of the smaller units was to get a better count in these areas and truly manage the deer herd. From what I have seen, the deer herd has been drastically reduced and the hunters have been drastically increased. This does not seem like a management tactic that will help mule deer survive.
 
>I also have been hunting the
>Beaver unit and have found
>it to be in worse
>shape than I have ever
>seen it over the past
>30 years. I thought
>that the purpose of the
>smaller units was to get
>a better count in these
>areas and truly manage the
>deer herd. From what
>I have seen, the deer
>herd has been drastically reduced
>and the hunters have been
>drastically increased. This does
>not seem like a management
>tactic that will help mule
>deer survive.

+1 here. I've seen the same thing, especially over the past 4 years. Tag numbers increase, deer numbers decrease. And, I'm seeing twice as many elk as I use to. That can't be helping the deer out any.
 
Very sad indeed! if Beaver is one of the "best" general units in UT, then I'm afraid the worst has come to pass in terms of the long-term viability of deer herds & opportunities for quality deer hunting on general units in UT. Sure wish UDWR, USFS, landowners, conservationists and hunters would wake up and realize that only drastic action is going to turn things around - I believe Beaver has the potential to be one of the best, but it may be too late!
 
I've hunted the Beaver unit for a lot of years. The last 3 have been the worst I have ever seen. Tags increased for the last 3 seasons have clearly made an impact on the deer population. There have been a couple giants killed this year but there is a huge gap in the age class of bucks. 3-5 year old bucks are almost non existent. Lots of people shooting young bucks because that seems to be the majority of what there is running around. Other areas on the unit are completely void of deer that used to hold good numbers of deer.
 
The Utah Deer Herd is F'D Up!

The Poor Bastards Make it to age 3 they go on the Wall anymore!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
I'm glad people agree with me and I just hadn't lost my eye sight!
WAAAY too many recreational ATV'S running around and aren't the livestock supposed to be off by now?
There's not enough feed for both!
 
I totally agree,the ATV's certainly have not helped. They create their own roads into places that used to only be accessed by foot. The deer numbers continue to fall, yet the goal seems to be hunter and ATV outdoor experience. Give everyone a tag and then claim each year that the numbers are average or above. I must be blind or have forgot where to look after all these years.
 
I have hunted the beaver unit muzzy for deer 9 out of the last 12 years (hunted San Juan abajos one year, Southwest desert one year and had back surgery opening day a third year). I have never seen it as bad as it is now. Water that I have never seen dried up is gone, the range is toast. We have always gotten into deer in the past, lots of them. It is as if they just packed up and left.

My daughter shot nice mature 4 point bucks each of the last two years. Four of my kids have tags on the beaver this year. It feels like a totally different unit. When you have easy success year after year, you become complacent. Time to switch things up or there will be lots of tag soup this year.

The only thing that surprises me is how far the unit has fallen in 2 years.
 
Drought and fires. San Juan, Beaver, Cache unit, WY region G and H all bad news for deer. A big difference from two years ago in habitat and deer numbers. San Juan had good deer numbers compared to the other places.
 
There is just way too much pressure on our deer units, period.
I don't claim to be an armchair biologist, but something has got to change.
 
We just got back from hunting the Beaver Unit with muzzies. Yes, deer numbers were low, but nearly every doe had a fawn, which is at least good for something. We saw bucks of all sizes, but definitely not as many as in year's past.

As for ATVs - same ole, same ole - lots of guys riding the roads and not hiking. Especially these days, the more miles you hike, the more animals you see.

If your rear never leaves the seat, the more tag soup you'll eat!!
 
>We just got back from hunting
>the Beaver Unit with muzzies.
> Yes, deer numbers were
>low, but nearly every doe
>had a fawn, which is
>at least good for something.
> We saw bucks of
>all sizes, but definitely not
>as many as in year's
>past.
>
>As for ATVs - same ole,
>same ole - lots of
>guys riding the roads and
>not hiking. Especially these
>days, the more miles you
>hike, the more animals you
>see.
>
>If your rear never leaves the
>seat, the more tag soup
>you'll eat!!

Yes, we definitely noticed fawns, even several twins.
As far as ATV's, I was referring to the recreational riders due to piute trail and post jamboree rider's.
And we made multiple hikes in over a mile from the roads during day break and failed to even see a single doe on some of those excursions.
The once great unit, is now very very sub par.
 
We also saw some doe's with fawns but very few deer in total. I wonder if there has been a doe hunt scheduled for the Beaver unit. It is sad to see such a great unit decline so much. The buck numbers are so few that I am afraid all the small bucks will be taken by the mass amount of hunters by the end of the rifle hunt.
 
>We also saw some doe's with
>fawns but very few deer
>in total. I wonder if
>there has been a doe
>hunt scheduled for the Beaver
>unit. It is sad
>to see such a great
>unit decline so much.
>The buck numbers are so
>few that I am afraid
>all the small bucks will
>be taken by the mass
>amount of hunters by the
>end of the rifle hunt.
>
That is EXACTLY what will happen, mass genocide of everything with testicles.
 
Looked sad when I was up there with a friend, he has a tag ...hopefully Panguitch Lake looks better for bucks after fire..
Smacked
 
Is that what happens to every good unit ? It gets pounded until there only two points and spikes left. Then everyone moves along and pounds the next hot unit.
 
One of these Days!

You Boys are gonna believe me!

The TARDville Deer Herd is F'D Up!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
It appears to me that it is all about hunter opportunity. The deer herds decline, but the number of hunters go up. That is not a good recipe for helping out a deer herd. The Beaver unit has so many open areas, that any little buck alive runs from hunter to hunter until someone puts him down. With no chance of survival, the buck count continues to decline each year. What was once prime unit with great genes, is now a unit with very few bucks, and what few there are, don't live past the first couple years.
 
All this talk on the Beaver unit, their a RAC meeting Nov 13 at 5 pm at the Cedar City Middle School,let see how many of you will be their, to voice how you think this unit should be managed, I will be their to see if they can split the unit into a A and a B unit.
 
I have been to several rac meetings and voiced my opinion, so good luck with that. If you get them to spit the unit into 2 parts, count on double the tags, more hunter opportunity.
 
I would be in favor of cutting tags. Seems like the rifle numbers ought to come down if we feel that numbers will decline further. I would be willing to hunt Beaver once every two years (with reduced tags and subsequent draw odds) if the quality and number of deer increase.
 
Would it be better to work with DWR than to fight with, all I here is most hunters cutting them down,not trying to work with them. Seems no matter what they do in your eyes it not right, they have a hard job trying to make everyone happy. We all know we got to cut tags.
 
>If the Beaver unit is so
>bad, then put in for
>another unit.

Exactly what BIGJOHN implied in post #23
 
Totally agree slamdunk. Everyone leave one unit and go to another unit and bleed it dry. The point made by one hunter is correct. We all know tags need to be cut, so why does it not happen? The hunters are even in favor of it if it will help the deer herd. We have hunters on here who stated they are willing to miss years in order to see it get better. I think we are all willing to work with whoever makes the decisions, but each year when I attend the meetings, it is stated that all units are at or above objective, so tags are increased and late muzzle hunts are added.
 
I will put this out to talk about, how would cut tags, what do you do with dedicated hunter tags, they do most of the work, I built deer fence, what about life time tags, they get to hunt where they want for 3 years, they are the ones that do most of the complaining in the meeting, would the agree to hunt every other year, what about the youth that just wants to hunt, do you cut their tags. I have hunted the bow and muzzle, and now waiting for the rifle, I enjoy just being out with my family in the out doors.
 
And there is the problem. To many people just like having hunter opportunity and being in the outdoors. That is the reason these units are in so poor shape numbers wise. As long as that is the philosophy and goal in Utah there is no need to attend the rac meetings. Change would hurt all hunters. The dedicated hunter, life-time hunter and the large family groups would all have to suffer for the good of the deer herd.
 
I think I said that all people would have to suffer to help the deer numbers come back. That would include the trophy hunter as much as it would the family hunting. If you feel good about what you are seeing on the Beaver unit, more power to you. Some of us are just venting our frustration on a unit that used to be the best. The deer numbers are down, and we are just disappointed. Good luck in your hunting and family outing. I hope you have an enjoyable time. The nice thing is that because there are not many deer (bucks), you can hunt and camp for many days and still have a valid deer license.
 
People saying they are willing to hunt the beaver every other year to help. They must be dedicated hunters because it take three years as is to be guaranteed a beaver rifle tag. Are they willing to hunt the beaver every 5-6 years?
 
>People saying they are willing to
>hunt the beaver every other
>year to help. They
>must be dedicated hunters because
>it take three years as
>is to be guaranteed a
>beaver rifle tag. Are
>they willing to hunt the
>beaver every 5-6 years?


You are forgetting the life time tag hunters. They choose which unit they want to hunt first. I can't remember the number. But there are a bunch picking the Beaver tag. They get to hunt it every year until they change their unit.
 
Are hunters willing to put in the hours the dedicated hunter do, I would like to see the life time hunters put in hours for DWR to get to hunt, my hats off to dedicated hunters.
 
Haha dedicated hunters are the one of biggest problems this state has! It's all about money, the projects have become take handicapped kids fishing and fold pamphlets. They crowd every hunt "scouting" for the next hunt. Pick a weapon, pick a season. Get off the roads the bucks are in every unit for a guy willing to work. Please don't take your hat off to a dedicated hunter that for the large majority donated their money for the "work" hours. Utah has programs other states laugh at. It's all about $$$ not the benefit of the deer or elk herd.
 
Isn't it nice that someone will help the handicapped kids and take them fishing, you have to be a sad person to say something like that,I hope you never draw out,I will always help the handicapped kids our adults. I have built ed fences, built ponds for wild life, tag fences, by the way what have you done, but #####.
 
Never said it's a bad thing to help a handicapped kid, my point is that is what the projects have become to increase the mule deer herd and habitat....it has run its course it's nothing more than a money maker for the DWR
 
>Haha dedicated hunters are the one
>of biggest problems this state
>has! It's all about money,
>the projects have become take
>handicapped kids fishing and fold
>pamphlets. They crowd every hunt
>"scouting" for the next hunt.
>Pick a weapon, pick a
>season. Get off the roads
>the bucks are in every
>unit for a guy willing
>to work. Please don't take
>your hat off to a
>dedicated hunter that for the
>large majority donated their money
>for the "work" hours. Utah
>has programs other states laugh
>at.



This:



It's all about $$$
>not the benefit of the
>deer or elk herd.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-18 AT 10:32AM (MST)[p]I do partially agree that the dedicated hunter program has changed thing's on the mountain. No one can argue that it doesn't add pressure to the hunt's, but harvesting only two deer out of three season's actually saves a buck (in theory and on paper).

Personally I choose to pick a season and only hunt that weapon.
As far as my donation back to wildlife goes, I am a member of the Utah County Chapter of the MDF and we do conservation and habitat project's for our wildlife.

I don't have any answers for what needs to take place to bring our balance between herd number's and hunter opportunity, but the facts are facts......our deer number's are suffering due to numerous and various factors.

One thing is for damn sure....we can ALL do SOMETHING to help besides just complaining about it.
Join a conservation group and do something physical, and or donate fund's to go towards those projects so these groups can get work done.
Complaining isn't fixing anything.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-18
>AT 10:32?AM (MST)
>
>I do partially agree that the
>dedicated hunter program has changed
>thing's on the mountain. No
>one can argue that it
>doesn't add pressure to the
>hunt's, but harvesting only two
>deer out of three season's
>actually saves a buck (in
>theory and on paper).

Hey PUNK?

Does this Mean I Can Shoot 3 Bucks in 3 Years?:D


>
>Personally I choose to pick a
>season and only hunt that
>weapon.
>As far as my donation back
>to wildlife goes, I am
>a member of the Utah
>County Chapter of the MDF
>and we do conservation and
>habitat project's for our wildlife.
>
>
>I don't have any answers for
>what needs to take place
>to bring our balance between
>herd number's and hunter opportunity,
>but the facts are facts......our
>deer number's are suffering due
>to numerous and various factors.
>
>
>One thing is for damn sure....we
>can ALL do SOMETHING to
>help besides just complaining about
>it.
>Join a conservation group and do
>something physical, and or donate
>fund's to go towards those
>projects so these groups can
>get work done.
>Complaining isn't fixing anything.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Only if you choose to, Bess!
>
>Save some for the rest of
>us!?

To Find what I'm lookin for 2 out of 3 don't happen too often!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Get enough guys together and buy a tag BUT don't use it.
say 500 guys don't use a their tag that would make a impact in the amount of carry over pretty quick.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
I am not from Utah, BUT......

shouldnt hard work for wildlife come without needing to get a tag out of it? I mean the dedicated hunter program sounds GREAT!.....but in my mind, a person "volunteering" to help others...handicapped kids go fishing, improvement projects etc....the will to do these things comes from the heart, not from the motivation of receiving compensation via more tags.

Off my box...
 
>I am not from Utah, BUT......
>
>
>shouldnt hard work for wildlife come
>without needing to get a
>tag out of it?
>I mean the dedicated hunter
>program sounds GREAT!.....but in my
>mind, a person "volunteering" to
>help others...handicapped kids go fishing,
>improvement projects etc....the will to
>do these things comes from
>the heart, not from the
>motivation of receiving compensation via
>more tags.
>
>Off my box...

We'll said, and you are spot on.
 
What is really going on here? To keep cutting tag numbers is not the answer. Do you really want to sit home and not hunt year after year? Cutting tags feeds the trophy/guide business regime. Yes, get rid of the dedicated poacher program. Creates to much pressure. Pick ur hunt. The real problem is 350 per second bows, scopes on muzzleloaders, 1000 yard rifles, ATVs that can go anywhere, Swarovski Binos and scopes, trail cameras, drones, planes etc. Because of all this crap success rates are sky high and therefore you have to decrease the tags. Give me a recurve, a sidelock smokepole with ball and patch, a 30/30 or 3006 with 4 power scope. Now we can increase tags again and make it a hunt. And guess what? I'll out hunt all of ya!!!!!!!!!
 
Too keep cutting tag numbers?? I have yet to see this happen; only thing I've seen is an increase in tag numbers or another hunt added. Nobody wants to sit home we'd all rather be out hunting but the fact is they are giving over 2,000 tags for a unit that I'm not sure holds 2,000 bucks. Do dedicated hunters put pressure on the deer herd yes they do, but there is only 187 totals hunters I believe out of thousands of hunters. There are too many roads and too many hunters. Roads need to be closed to give the deer a chance and tags need to be cut. Something I think could benefit the deer herd is having an antler restriction such as 3pt or better. This still gives people opportunity to hunt but stops people from whacking all the little bucks and allows them to grow up. The fact of the matter is something needs to be done, there is way too many hunters/hunts and not enough deer.
 
You are right on the mark Muleys34. The fact is that something has to be done. I think we can all agree that we see way to many hunters that start from mid August to now into the first part of November if the unit has a late muzz hunt. Way to many roads for the hunters to drive on, and not nearly enough deer to go around. I can't imagine this type of management ever helping the deer herd grow. I don't think anyone wants to miss out on the opportunity to be in the great outdoors and have the opportunity to hunt. Maybe some new plans need to be tried. A three point or better hunt would allow hunters to still be in the field and hunt with families, but would also help the smaller bucks make it through at least a couple seasons. Less hunters in each unit may have to be implemented for the good of the deer herd. Maybe splitting the Beaver unit into two units so it can be more closely managed. From what I am hearing on this site, very few people feel like the deer population is on target in any of the units. So with that being said, maybe it is time to try some new strategies in some of these units and see if something might help the deer herd increase.
 
Some of the ideas that is being floated are ideas maybe we need to look at like splitting units,less hunts but three point or better does not work it has been tried in every Muley deer state and no state found that it helped infact most found it did the opposite.
I have heard all the arguments for three point or better and how the DWR just do not care but why would the DWR not want to make hunting better. We always say the DWR only makes decisions based on improving there finances. So if three point or better improved hunting it would improve finances so give me a reason they all stopped three point or better.
 
Notdonhunting:

Not sure what you are saying in regards to finances, but as for the 3 point or better, I have heard that some states have tried it and it did not accomplish what they wanted. The only thing these states did say that worked were two things. 1. A shorter hunting period, (which Utah has tried and did not like.) 2. Reduce the number of tags. This is what the current Utah plan is supposed to do. If deer numbers do not meet objective in a certain unit, then they say they will need to cut tags. I think that on the Beaver unit and most other units in Utah, the hunters are stating that the deer numbers are down. If that is the case, the Utah plan should be to cut tags in order to help these units recover in deer numbers. If we want deer numbers to increase, we need to be supportive of the DWR actions to decrease tags. It is not the most popular thing to do. But I think through all the research and looking at what does not work, like 3 point or better, reducing of tags is the option that has to be used if deer populations drop.
 
If DWR cuts tags on the Beaver Unit or any Unit, do they cut lifetime tags to, maybe let them hunt every 2 years,or do we try to work together and come up with some thing that will work for everyone
 
I would say everyone would have to miss out. It is not about Lifetime tags, or dedicated tags, it is about a declining deer herd. The Lifetime and dedicated hunter may have to hunt in another unit that is at or above objective.
 
I know the Beaver unit can be split,and they can control the permits a lot better, they can go to a 5 day hunt, 3 point or better didn't work in other states that tried it, hunters can go to the RAC meeting, but go in a big group express what need to be done for every hunter, we got to come up with a plan that works for everyone, not just for what we want. Think about it isn't better to work with DWR, than to keep fighting with them, they have a big job to do.
 
>I would say everyone would have
>to miss out. It
>is not about Lifetime tags,
>or dedicated tags, it is
>about a declining deer herd.
> The Lifetime and dedicated
>hunter may have to hunt
>in another unit that is
>at or above objective.

Now Just WTF is that 'above objectives' Unit?

BIGJOHN & others will just Love getting their Lifetime PISSCUTTER Tag taken away!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Banning trail cams like Nevada did would be a great start. Cut tag numbers and shorten the seasons. Get rid of the dedicated hunter program, many of the work projects are a joke. Increase tag prices to make up for the lost revenue.

But seriously ;-) Bump the minimum age for big-game hunters back to 16. If you live in a city, you aren't eligible for bonus points and can only apply to hunt every other year. Tag holders can have a max of two accompanying guests with them. Remove all livestock from public lands. Permanent hunting ban if you've ever worn a flat-brim hat or have monster buck/bull stickers in the back window of your jacked up truck.
 
>Banning trail cams like Nevada did
>would be a great start.
>Cut tag numbers and shorten
>the seasons. Get rid of
>the dedicated hunter program,
>many of the work projects
>are a joke. Increase tag
>prices to make up for
>the lost revenue.
>
>But seriously ;-) Bump the minimum
>age for big-game hunters back
>to 16. If you live
>in a city, you aren't
>eligible for bonus points and
>can only apply to hunt
>every other year. Tag holders
>can have a max of
>two accompanying guests with them.
>Remove all livestock from public
>lands. Permanent hunting ban if
>you've ever worn a flat-brim
>hat or have monster buck/bull
>stickers in the back window
>of your jacked up truck.
>

That Ought to make everybody Happy deadi!:D









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>Banning trail cams like Nevada did
>>would be a great start.
>>Cut tag numbers and shorten
>>the seasons. Get rid of
>>the dedicated hunter program,
>>many of the work projects
>>are a joke. Increase tag
>>prices to make up for
>>the lost revenue.
>>
>>But seriously ;-) Bump the minimum
>>age for big-game hunters back
>>to 16. If you live
>>in a city, you aren't
>>eligible for bonus points and
>>can only apply to hunt
>>every other year. Tag holders
>>can have a max of
>>two accompanying guests with them.
>>Remove all livestock from public
>>lands. Permanent hunting ban if
>>you've ever worn a flat-brim
>>hat or have monster buck/bull
>>stickers in the back window
>>of your jacked up truck.
>>
>
>That Ought to make everybody Happy
>deadi!:D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D


If nothing else, I'm a people pleaser ;-)
 
The DWR has put a good plan in place for the state. I think 11 units are managed more for opportunity at 15-18 bucks per 100 doe's and the other 18 units are managed more for those wanting to hunt with some opportunity for more mature deer at 18-20 bucks per 100 doe's. For those who are hunting more for opportunity, maybe they should be the ones who apply to hunt in one of these 11 units created for them. If the numbers decline below the unit objective, the state will cut tags to help deer population increase. If numbers increase above unit objective, the state will add more tags. Hunters on the Beaver unit have continued to watch the deer population decline, but have not seen a drop in tag permits. In fact, there has been continual increase in tags and now the addition of a late muzz hunt added to the Beaver unit. In the statewide plan, the first goal for Utah is to Expand and Improve Deer populations in each of these 30 units by the year 2019. We are only a year away from that goal date, but seem to be going in the wrong direction. Increased tags will only cause a reduction in the deer population. The Beaver unit cannot continue to sustain the current number of hunters on this unit and at the same time, accomplish an increase in deer population. If it takes splitting the unit into a Westside and Eastside then lets do it, but to add tags and then say that the deer population is doing well and is above objective is hard for hunters to believe on the Beaver unit.
 
It would be South and North side, A the South unit, B the North unit, this is the only way to save the Beaver unit,Split the unit, then cut tags. Their only about 4 or 6 tags for the late muzzle hunt with No inclines. Remember the road at Junction over the mountain to Beaver can be the split, all we have do is fight for it.
 
One problem I see, is the division of wildlife only looks at the buck to doe ratio. Heck if there are only 100 does on a unit and 25 bucks, then they think everything is great. Since we are losing the does as fast as the bucks, the buck to doe ratio looks good, so lets increase tags. Shouldn't total number of deer be considered in the equation? If there are less does, then less bucks would still meet the ratio, but doesn't tell what is really happening.
 
It seems to me the issue has always been trusting the count the DWR does. They never really know how many deer or elk are on a unit at all.

A few years back they had issues and acknowledged that they had a computer model for counting, if they counted the Monroe unit then statistically you could consider that the Pahvant should be the same by percentage compared to the year before. They really just counted one unit and then projected it on to the entire region.

They simply don't have enough boots on the ground. It is not the officers and biologists at fault it is the budget.
 
I have seen count the 89 side of the Beaver, and I agree walleye they don't have enough officers on three ground and your right it's the budget.
 
Buck to Doe Management is a F'N JOKE!

Count everything with a Nub atop His Head!

And You'r Right!

Total Numbers Mean Something!

And We need Some Breeding Stock/Some Bucks Past Age 3 left alive come Rut Time!

Very Few Bucks in this State make it Past Age 3-1/2!

You Wanna See PISS POOR Deer Management?

TARDville is the Place to see it!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
We need to stop #####-en and start putting thing together to go to the RAC and the BIG GAME BOARD MEETING, I know someone going to say I did that and it won't work, we have to keep trying until it works,if you don't try you have the right to #####. How many would like to see the like to see the Beaver unit Split and cut some tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-18 AT 12:06PM (MST)[p]>We need to stop #####-en and
>start putting thing together to
>go to the RAC and
>the BIG GAME BOARD MEETING,
>I know someone going to
>say I did that and
>it won't work, we have
>to keep trying until it
>works,if you don't try you
>have the right to #####.
>How many would like to
>see the like to see
>the Beaver unit Split and
>cut some tags.

Great idea! I look forward to watching and listening to you all telling the dedicated, educated, trained, experienced DWR wildlife biologists how to do their jobs.
 
Those dedicated, educated wildlife biologists are nothing more than rubber-stamping, trained monkeys. They spend about 2.5 days in the field per year. They couldn't get an accurate count on how many ticks are on their ass cheeks.
 
If you can't make the RAC meeting on Nov 13 at 5 pm email the RAC chairman about the your concerns about the Beaver unit and what should be done to help the unit.
The chairman Dave Black [email protected] maybe we can get it on the agenda.
 
>Those dedicated, educated wildlife biologists are
>nothing more than rubber-stamping, trained
>monkeys. They spend about 2.5
>days in the field per
>year. They couldn't get
>an accurate count on how
>many ticks are on their
>ass cheeks.

All the more reason you need to be there to straighten them out.
 
So, what about the 13 units that are bigger than the Beaver unit? Shouldn't they be split too with reduced tag numbers? We're just getting started!
 
splitting the unit helps nothing unless tags are reduced. SFW has been trying to split the unit for a couple years now, proposing that the west side by managed as a trophy unit.

I have four kids with Beaver general deer tags and we aren't even hunting it this fall. That should save a couple of bucks.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-21-18 AT 06:39PM (MST)[p]Just to show some perspective of where my 2 cents come from.

spawn092_zps60143953.jpg


Looking back at that perspective.

muley166.jpg


My front porch looks out on one of the wintering grounds on in the Beaver Unit.

There was a time when I could count as many as 400 head at one time setting in that one spot.

I know winter herds can move a little from year to year, but this herd returns pretty consistently to this same spot.

Over the the years I have seen the numbers go up and down, but ye I would say they have been down pretty good the last couple of years.

I have never seen the buck to doe ratio match that claimed by DWR. Close some years but never quite there.

I do not know what splitting the unit into 2 units would do to help the herd numbers, but I am not an expert.

Although I don't think you really need an expert to know that less hunting pressure would show immediate increase to the herd.

My 2 cents.
 
>splitting the unit helps nothing unless
>tags are reduced. SFW has
>been trying to split the
>unit for a couple years
>now, proposing that the west
>side by managed as a
>trophy unit.
>
Any reason or explanation why they are looking at the west side as a trophy unit versus the main mountain?
 
I agree that 2,000 tags is to much, especially for the Fillmore, Pahavnt unit. There is not 2,000 buck deer on this unit. If they wanted us to kill that many deer, they should have that unit go a lot longer than just a week. On top of that, there is a lot of hunting pressure. People are going all over with there ATV's destroying roads. The DWR are also wrong with their buck to doe ratio. For how many does we seen, there should have been over 24 bucks; not one. Also, the DWR aren't telling us a accurate harvest percent. We aren't required to do a hunting survey, so where do they get this number? That's why trail cameras are a good idea; we can actually see what's on the mountain. Not listening to inaccurate buck to doe ratio. I also think that the 3 point or better would be a great idea.
 
Hunter need to put pressure on the RAC to make them to do something to make the Beaver unit better. You could split the Beaver unit in to 2 or three section a A B C and cut tags, that would be a start.
 
>>splitting the unit helps nothing unless
>>tags are reduced. SFW has
>>been trying to split the
>>unit for a couple years
>>now, proposing that the west
>>side by managed as a
>>trophy unit.
>>
>Any reason or explanation why they
>are looking at the west
>side as a trophy unit
>versus the main mountain?

Sure! Mineral Mountains! SFW has been trying to make that a Limited Entry deer unit for years.
 
>Hunter need to put pressure on
>the RAC to make them
>to do something to make
>the Beaver unit better. You
>could split the Beaver unit
>in to 2 or three
>section a A B C
>and cut tags, that would
>be a start.

Better for who? A start to what?
 
To answer your questions Elkfromabove. The suggestions given are to help the deer population on the Beaver unit increase. People are throwing out ideas because they care about the Beaver unit. One suggestion is to split the unit, so that maybe a better management of the deer population can happen. Another option that has to happen is to cut tags, so that the deer herd can start to increase instead of decline. Something has to be done or you will continue to see the herd decline on the Beaver unit. I have also herd that this is not the only unit where the deer herd is declining.
 
>To answer your questions Elkfromabove.
>The suggestions given are to
>help the deer population on
>the Beaver unit increase.
>People are throwing out ideas
>because they care about the
>Beaver unit. One suggestion
>is to split the unit,
>so that maybe a better
>management of the deer population
>can happen. Another option
>that has to happen is
>to cut tags, so
>that the deer herd can
>start to increase instead of
>decline. Something has to
>be done or you will
>continue to see the herd
>decline on the Beaver unit.
> I have also herd
>that this is not the
>only unit where the deer
>herd is declining.

Thanks for your answer. But it does bring up a couple of other questions. How does splitting the unit help to manage the population? And how does reducing the BUCK tags help the population to increase?
 
And how
>does reducing the BUCK tags
>help the population to increase?
>

I am not a biologist, but you might see a lot less fawns being dropped in July and even Aug.
 
I would think that managing a smaller unit may help the Biologist get a more accurate count of how many deer are in a specific area. Thus, they would be able to make more accurate decisions of what needs to be done. As far as how reducing buck tags would help? I have been in the hills during the rut and have seen groups of doe's with no buck even around. I would say that reducing the amount of bucks killed may produce enough bucks to breed all the doe's each year. The buck tags are not all that needs to be reduced. In order to increase deer population, there should be no reason to have doe tags each year. The total number of deer are way down, not just bucks. Another option would be to close the area for a few years and see if that helps. These are just ideas that may need to be tried in some of the units to see if it might help. With around 30 units in the state, why not try some different ideas to see if it makes a difference.
 
Agreed with Southernutahhunter. Lowering the number of tags is going too obviously result in less deer (bucks) being killed. Closing the units for a few years is a great idea. I think closing 3-5 units for 3 years could greatly benefit the herd. This has been done on LE deer units before and now these units are the best in the state. Anterless tags should be given out when there is an abundance of does or cows in the area. I can tell you this is not the case. We need every doe being breed to replenish the deer herd. There is plenty of feed in the mountains to support the deer and elk population to grow. If the DWR is not willing to make any changes, we as a hunting community need to make some chances and do what we can. I think if we pass on the smaller bucks and let them grow up and eat our tag, we can see and increase in the overall deer population. Another thought I had if we were to close these units for a few years why not have a management hunts on those units during that time.
 
Southernhunter, and Muley3434, I see you both have have 14 posts here.

You guys may not realize that this subject has been discussed hundreds of times here concerning just about every Utah Unit, and (back in the day) Region.

Every possible positive scenario has been brought forward by some really great Mule Deer enthusiasts.

Many of those same people have presented those ideas through the proper government channels that were in place at the time.

Although many changes in regulation and policy have taken place,, very few have turned out to be all that helpful to
Utah Muleys.

Taking Utah from a handful of regions to dozens of units has done nothing to help the Mule Deer herd.

So I do not really see what breaking units down even farther will do to help.

Beaver is a great unit with altitudes from
from 4000? all the way up to 12,000?..

Examples of almost every terrain type found in Utah,, can be found in the Beaver Unit.

A majority of the acreage found on the Beaver Unit is open to the public.

I can not understand why any Westerner would want to chop up a jewel like that.

Especially when chopping has shown no positive results in the past.
 
A lot of hunters I talked with are given up on the Beaver..
And are written off any hope of saving it..
And just are moving to other units..
All agreed it needs split and reduced availability of tags..
smacked
 
This Shhiittt Amazes Me!

We Once Managed a Whole State!

Now We can't Manage a 10 Square Mile Unit!

It's been F'D Up for a Long Time!

Gets More F'D up by the year!

It'll Be More F'D up in Future Years!

Anybody wanting to Place Some Money on it?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-18 AT 08:12PM (MST)[p]>
>This Shhiittt Amazes Me!
>
>We Once Managed a Whole State!
>
>
>Now We can't Manage a 10
>Square Mile Unit!
>
>It's been F'D Up for a
>Long Time!
>
>Gets More F'D up by the
>year!
>
>It'll Be More F'D up in
>Future Years!
>
>Anybody wanting to Place Some Money
>on it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

This state has never been managed. Whatever happened to prop 5. The state seems to ignore it.
Yep, I'm done with Utah. The problem is, once a unit reaches what the DWR says is the proper buck/doe ratio, instead of keeping the numbers where they should be, they double down on tag increases and kill it off.

It is getting to the point where the Utah DWR needs to be sued for harassing wildlife. They are managing wildlife for revenue only. RAC meetings are just a dog and pony show. Just wait until next year to see what damage has been done to the elk herds with the multi-season tags sold this year.
 
Castnshoot, Very aware this subject has been discuss before and will continue to be discuss. We are throwing ideas around knowing the dwr will not change a damn thing. The fact of the matter is you can make the units as small as you want but there is way too many hunters. Yes the beaver unit ranges from 4,000 to 12,000ft with various train. I personally wouldn't say it's a gem but there are good bucks still in the unit. I think we can all agree the beaver much like others have steadily declined over the years and it is very discouraging.
 
Bess nailed it. Some sportsmen have pushed hard to help make it easier for better management and the state refuses to do so. There are many many options out there to improve the mule deer herd in Utah and the DWR and a handful of greedy whiners prevent it from happening.
 
So I will add the 99th comment on this subject... "I don't know what needs to change, but something does...". This sounds like a great management philosophy. Maybe nothing needs to be done and let the drought run its course. If your seeing doe's with fawns, something is breeding them. Perhaps the deer have changed their behavior due to drought but the hunters haven't. Maybe you are not as good as you think or once was.

I'm not against cutting tags, but by God, it better start with all the welfare tags: juveniles under 16 years old, do away with multi-season youth tags, old people mentor tags, and whatever other bush*t permits y'all are gobbling up like free government cheese.

All these extra youth permits are doing far more damage than any dedicated/lifetime/long range/muzzy scopes and late season hunters. Herein 'lies' the problem; yall want your free juvenile government cheese without competing against the grown-ups.

Pull yourself off the DWR cross and use the wood to build a bridge to get over it. Not every Indian is a good hunter...
 

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