USO clients, Get a free hunt!!!!

S

shedhunter2

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Anyone who has a signed contract with USO who drew a elk tag in Arizona, this is for you!! If you are willing to tell USO to shove it where the sun dont shine, and tear up that contract, I will guide you for $100. I have been a guide in AZ for 8 years, and I have several other Arizona hunting guides who will do the same deal for you as well. e-mail me if you are in this situation, we will take good care of you.

Lets hit them hard in the pocket books!

Lance
 
Thats bull all the way! Every guide in Az. is jumping for joy after USO 'carried' all guides to MORE potential clients with this court battle. The guides, Az. fish and game and the few extra non-res. that drew a tag are the main benefactors of this ruling. If you have ever dealt with a contract-signed, then you think someone is going to dump $3400.00 to USO and then draw a tag and then pay you $100.00 and tear up the signed contract>>>>>>>>>>> sober up
 
Thats a cool offer.

I doubt it's that hard to get out of any "contract" with USO. How can you be held financialy liable for a service you didn't receive?

JG
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-22-04 AT 09:38AM (MST)[p]Pleasedear, have you actually talked to any guides in AZ about this issue? If you have talked to some who share your feelings, then they're certainly not voicing in in public down here.... USO is seen as vermin in this state! Every guide/outfitter that I have talked to is VERY against the recent court ruling.

By the way Lance, like I said in the coues forum; This is an awesome offer! Just be careful of folks taking 'advantage'.... ;-)

S.

:)
 
If anyone thinks AZ guides are jumping for joy, you are mistaken. Right now if someone wants to check, USO outfitters got somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 tags mailed to their P.O. box for their clients. I have went to both game commission public meetings and an ADA meeting with the assistant director Steve Ferrel last night (Bugler & Stanley were there). This issue is more complex and involved than many people believe. Currently any USO client applys through USO and if successful their tag is mailed to USO p.o box. I want this stopped and the tags mailed to the home address of each client or you will never have a chance to get those clients. USO has caused a change in our states draw practice to make it less "Discriminatory" to non-residents so I feel the existing practice of mailing the tags to USO instead of the tag holder is a "Barrier" to trade for guides............... Allen Taylor......
 
Wow. The guy just added over a million dollars in revenue to his business this year. I guess he is smarter than all of us either that or morally bankrupt or both. I'll take the latter.
I sure hopes this backfires on him and he can't get the quality guides to hunt with these people.
 
300 tags mailed to them?? How do you know that?? How can ya make a statement about the mail delivery?? How do you know that they are 300 tags from the ruleing?? Whats would that 300 tags equate to?? 10% of their clients drew something?? And how could ya prove that 300 tags came from the ruleing on only deer and elk???

Look I know your guys are upset and that ya have every right to be concerned. But all your getting from the Az. F&G and your outfitter buddies is lip service about being upset. It is all about the $$$$$$$$$ and the winners in this ruling are the Outfitters, Az. F%G and non-res. who hit in the extra tags.

If some outfitter are all upset it is about the $$$$$$$$ that USO apparently MAY have gotten extra from the extra tags NOT about the opportunity they all gained for more potential clients.

It isn't as if USO is the only ones on the phone telling potential clients thruout the year, that if the ruling holds out they would have a better chance to draw and that they would be guiding them. I don't know anyone that would turn down food on the table for their family from extra income.

No doubt my state is on line to be next or soon........
 
PleaseDear, I think you've got the wrong idea. I'm an outfitter and I could give a care less about getting more hunters. Question that all you want but it's true. Sure I do see your point about getting more hunters but I think that most AZ residents and also outfitters/guides would rather get a tag for themselves than see this kind of nonsense happen. Now it just means we'll have to wait even longer for that coveted elk or deer tag. If you look at the actual suit their point was to gain more money not from clients but from the sale of the antlers and hides that their clients get. Now you tell us, do you think that someone paying $3300 for a hunt is going to be willing to give up their horns and hides to the outfitter so he can sell them for big profit after he just paid that much for the hunt? Come on, what a load of BS. I don't know of an outfitter in the entire state that practices this. When a client is fortunate enough to harvest an animal I've never ever seen one say, "Awwww I know it's a good one but you go ahead and keep it." The judge that bought into their argument is a freakin fool.

And the reason they get the tags mailed directly to them is because they have an application service that they also run and they make sure they control where the tags go. It's real simple to do. Too bad the clients that draw don't realize that they can get a duplicate tag for $3 w/o much hassle at all.

Josh Epperson
 
It is over now Josh. Sorry ya didn't get any more income/clients for your family and your business from the ruleing.
Sure, everybody I know turns down extra income, no problem there.
Of course they mail the tags to the application service, they are paying for the tags not the client, all application services do the same thing. But how can anyone say the amount of tags mailed there?? 300 tags. Come on... prove that number and that they all came because of the ruleing..... seriously, how could anyone state any numbered amount of tags mailed??
The ruleing doesn't say you have to do that with hide/horns just that you could. Sweet stratagies for the attorneys.
Before ya know it, you'll have USO and SFW down there and no one will be getting a tag!!
I've said all along it sucks for you guys and I'm not a supoporter of USO from a finacial point--client. But this screwing fellow hunters out of hunting opportunity and taking it deep in the wallet to be able to hunt has to end. It started in your state, my state is next and his state or her state or their state and thats what should happen.
You should have as much opportunity to draw a tag in my state and pay with in reasonalble if not equal fees to do it on federal ground.
We haul our family up to Jellystone, we paying anymore to get in or camp in the park than someone from wyoming....NO.
It is a very emotional issue but it is a done deal now.
 
No, it's not a done deal until the entire process is over. For this season, yes. For years to come? Depends.

The game belongs to the state, not the feds. If you want to see a real screw up, just give all game management over to the USFG service.

By the way, when you haul your family to Yellowstone, you're not hunting. No, you do not pay more than a Wyoming resident, but then neither do you when using National Forest in WY.
 
PleaseDear: I can see I struck a "Honest" cord in you. I have been at every meeting and the majority of info I pass on is directly from the AZGFD. Sorry if the numbers dont seem right to you or you wonder where I get the info. Each year the AZGFD has an "Applicant list" that you can buy and see for yourself after the fact. We have the counts now because with the expanded drawing that the AZGFD had to perform, there are names and associated draw numbers. I know this to be the case because it is "public information" that must be provided under the freedom of information act. Mr. Steve Ferrell just a few nights ago said that the current system of mailing the tags directly to USO p.o. box will stop. and the tag holders will get them mailed to their house. I dont see this effort as wrong on my part nor do I see it as an emotional outburst. I am just attempting to help change a system that is clearly not equal. This whole "emotional" outburst hopefully will help the other western states that will be embroiled in this issue very very soon. If you check, Nevada, Wyoming and other states are in the position AZ is in and if AZ will be the first to get through it, precedents will be set. I just want AZ to get through this in the most "non-discriminatory" way possible so the other states have a clearer path that ours......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
PleaseDear, I'm already nearly booked for all hunts through the winter, same as last year. I was and am being completely honest when I say that I would rather have an elk tag or deer tag for myself than to guide someone on one of those hunts. Rarely in AZ we actually do get to hunt for ourselves and when we are able to it's precious and coveted time. I got into the guide business to help other hunters become successful and I enjoy the outdoors, not because of all this major profit you talk of. My dad and I like to do all the guiding ourselves and not to have any more clients in camp than we can personally handle. So I hope that you can realize, by me stating all of this, that I am not in it for the profit. Otherwise I'd have a halfdozen guides and be up to my neck in clients. I don't want another job and too many clients bring on too much responsibility and stress. Neither of which my father and I want. I'm strictly speaking for me and my father not the other outfitters in our awesome state. Believe what you want but judging by your sarcastic comments I'd say you already have.

Josh
 
Please! Dear! Public information together with supplemental draw list = extremely accurate figures. My brother was drawn for a N.M. bull elk tag and has received several solicitations from guides even though he hasn't received the tag yet.
 
Thank you Allen for clearing that up. It was't a guess on your part by posting the figures, we got them driectly from the G&F. As an outfitter here in AZ I can say right now taht I would pass the chance to guide someone for an Elk tag for my daughter. The past three years she has put in and hasnt been drawn. This is for a cow tag. She's twelve. My son is 6 and goes with me now on my hunts "if I draw."
I am totally against the ruling, due to alot of things. First and foremost the quality of our herds, and the rights of residents. So with this said we shall see on the 13 th of August what G&F is gonna do. That meeting in Flag will have the answers to next year. As far as me booking clients, I do the best I can but can only accomodate a few each year, My partner handles the rest. Im booked for Archery in AZ already one from in state and one from out which is normal. the majority of the extra allotted tags went to Taos NM. Hope your states can dodge the taulman bullet, good luck "dear!"
Bugler
 
Hey Bura et al, who have been following this deal real close...

Have you seen any loopholes that will enable some of us other states to escape this mess?

I was talking to a friend yesterday who lobby's hard for hunters here in MT. He said there was some talk about the interstate commerce rule and how it drove this through? How does it work, what can we do?
 
It appears that whenever a state intends on increasing permits for res and non-res alike, they must have it on the Legislatures agenda to enact changes. I believe Arizona Deer Association already has a tenative schedule with Legally appropriate wording that will increase tags commensurate with other western states and the plan will be delivered to the AZGFD commissioners by the August public meeting. This August meeting is crucial to convince the AZGFD commissioners before the January Legislative session. Apparently if we dont have all our ducks in a row by the August meeting, then we will not make the January Legislatures agenda to change Statutes......I think the commerce clause is but one of the problems in AZ. I think if the other states look at the specific 9th circuit ruling and adapts as quickly as they can to eliminate "Descrimination" as defined by the court, the other Western States can save some heartache. If I was in any other western states shoes, I would call AZGFD and keep abreast of what is happening to minimize the problems they may confront. There already is precedence for different prices for res versus non-residents and the implementation of a fair system is the question. AZ's current fiasco is due to USO and our premium hunt units so our case is different due to the plaintiffs. I would enact change in my state before it gets as far as it did in AZ.............. Allen Taylor......
 
org. thats my point, thank you for agreeing. NO extra for anyone on federal ground anywheres other than the screwing of fellow hunters on hunt tags.
 
PleaseDear,

What Lance is doing is a stand up thing and showes that he is a man that will fight. I have read some of his other posts though I may not agree all the time he is a stand up guy. And I think it is great what he is doing and back him 100%. What USO did is wrong and you can try to twist it anyway you want, but in the end its all about USO making money not AZ guides. And its about USO screwing AZ res.
 
Bura Nut, I am hoping to do exactly what you described, here in Montana. Don't know exactly how yet, but somehow hunters here and in Nevada and Wyoming and Idaho and Colorado and you get the idea, have got to wake up and get together. This whole USO thing is a bad, bad, deal. mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-04 AT 09:58PM (MST)[p]PleaseDeer,what point? The state owns the game. As long as you're not hunting or fishing, you can go anywhere you want. If you hunt or fish, you pay what rates the state charges, whether you're on federal, state, or private property. If you know of a state that doesn't charge more for non residents to hunt or fish, let me know which one it is.
 
I saw a truck in Eagarville one time that had USO sticker on the side of it. I have an elk tag and a bear tag and a late coues tag and I also have $100 bucks. Do I qualify for the help? Any help at all? Thanks

Bret M
 
Folks have manage and own mixed in together on game.

When elk migrate out of Colo. into Norhtern N.Mex they are Colo. elk but N.Mex pays the crop damage to ranchers true? Or do they go after Colo. because Colo. owns the elk but they crossed the state line?? No one owns them they manage them.

So other Az. guides that had potential non-res. clients did tell those clients that if the draw was changed and those potential clients did draw that they wouldn't guide them?? They would tell them if they actually drew forget about it?? Go to a USO guide and hunt?? Come on man! Nobody turns away $$$$ in such a tight economy when it is legitamate legal income.

Other guides a pissed off because USO has a tremendous clientel base and they don't.

It sucks and it is coming to my state and thats how it is.

Is there a law on the books in Az. that states they have to have any non-res. tags at all??? Don't have any non-res. tags offered........ end of problem and good bye USO correct?
 
I wish you people making assumptions about the non-resident law suit would learn the facts and history about this case before making selfish and rude comments.

In 1979 the US Supreme court rule in an Oklahoma case that wildlife is property of the federal gov.

Federal dollars paid for the majority of the reintroduction of elk to Az. and the elk live and are hunted on mostly federal land.

Arizona and Texas residents sued New Mexico in 1996 for the same thing Montoya did in 2000. New Mexico settled with a 22% set aside for non-resident.

In 1997 when Montoya et. al. asked Arizona Game and Fish to settle for a 10% set aside they refused. Not smart or fair.

Arizona Game and Fish had numerous chances to settle this suit with a 10% set aside and they chose not to. Look what happened. This was selfish and greedy on their part.

I'm a resident of Arizona and have had a guide business for over 15 years. I prefer non-resident clients because they don't bargain shop the outfitters and comprimise your honey hole spots by telling all their friends when your not around.

If Arizona hunters and the Arizona Game and Fish changes the law to discriminate against fellow americans because of where they live, I would say that we should go one step further and make the law so you have to hunt in the county you live. Or we could make the law so only Arizona native residents get to hunt. You would change you tune then.

Lets keep it fair for everyone. I've hunted Alaska, Canada,Ut., N.M., Co. and Tx. and they all treated me fairly and were very sportsmanlike. We should grow up and act the same to our fellow americans who are protected by the same constitutional rights as Arizona residents.
 
Isn't there a line in USO's Professional Licensing Service contract that requires the successful applicant to hire the outfitting and guide services of USO to outfit their hunt? If the hunter elects to try and get a duplicate tag and hunt DIY or with another guide service they are likely headed to court as the defendant in another USO lawsuit.
 
That is probly true but next year will be different when AZ mails all tags directly to applicants homes. Then all ya have to do is write USO and tell them you are not hunting this year due to aunt Martha kickin the bucket and go get a good guide. What is USO gonna do have a PI sit outside your house and catch you loadin up the truck X 4000 customers?
 
Meat,
You are entitled to your opinion,, but I think you must have something loose upstairs.. Either that, or you just have good luck and draw every year here in AZ because you know what?? We don't. Get a clue man.. Yes we are all American, but there are should be certain privleges of living in your own state where you live, pay taxes, vote etc,, A quote from a gentleman at the Mesa Game and Fish meeting: We hunters of AZ have sacrificed our opportunity to hunt every year for better quality game, we require that.. Why should everyone get to cash in??
 
Obviously meat either works for USO or he doesnt live in AZ. One word of advice dont stick up for USO on this web site its not a good thing.
 
>Come on man!
>Nobody turns away $$$$ in
>such a tight economy
>when it is legitamate legal
>income.

I guess my response to this is that to some people, self satisfaction is more important....than money.


Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 

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