region g opening day
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DoubleDropMuley
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Yes still October 1. It runs the 1st through the 14th!!
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Definitely long season, but I understand the outfitters have businesses to protect and can't do it all in a week or 10 days.
But actually, it seems for the last few years the south end has closed on the 8th or 10th or thereabouts. No?? Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. Has it been the 14th the last few years?
Brian Latturner
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But actually, it seems for the last few years the south end has closed on the 8th or 10th or thereabouts. No?? Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. Has it been the 14th the last few years?
Brian Latturner
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PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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'I believe that is what Brian is referring to. It is a long season in "G". It is to long IMO! All those areas should have the same opening days and closing days!'
+1 on your statement!
Robb
+1 on your statement!
Robb
>Definitely long season, but I understand
>the outfitters have businesses to
>protect and can't do it
>all in a week or
>10 days.
>But actually, it seems for the
>last few years the south
>end has closed on the
>8th or 10th or thereabouts.
>No?? Maybe I'm wrong, I
>don't know. Has it been
>the 14th the last few
>years?
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
The dates were the same for those units last year when I hunted G Brian, but I have no idea what they were before that since I could only hunt it once with my 6PPs and never kept track of dates.
>the outfitters have businesses to
>protect and can't do it
>all in a week or
>10 days.
>But actually, it seems for the
>last few years the south
>end has closed on the
>8th or 10th or thereabouts.
>No?? Maybe I'm wrong, I
>don't know. Has it been
>the 14th the last few
>years?
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
The dates were the same for those units last year when I hunted G Brian, but I have no idea what they were before that since I could only hunt it once with my 6PPs and never kept track of dates.
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Founder Since 1999
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Founder
Founder Since 1999
- Messages
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Gotcha' on the dates last year. I can't remember for sure, but it just seems that just a few years ago that south end closed earlier that the 14th. Heck, I don't know.
I'm hoping to scout some on that south end. Good 2nd option in case what I find up north gets hammered.
Brian Latturner
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I'm hoping to scout some on that south end. Good 2nd option in case what I find up north gets hammered.
Brian Latturner
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I am on the side of the fence that supports a healthy dear population. That means I also think that residents should pic their area instead of being able to hunt almost the entire state on a general tag. As it is now there are at least 3 different opening days a guy could hit with a minimal drive from the Green River area. But if we are to talk about about residents that have "special" rights while hunting in the state we live in then so be it. I could go on and on why some would say we deserve that. But what about those that hunt that area every year even though they are non residents? Anyway those seasons for the souther part of the unit I believe have been that way for a long time I believe. I don't know for sure as I have never hunted that part, but I am pretty sure.
We must have really lucked out Brian because the four days we hunted last year in both of the units I mentioned we only saw two guys on horses the 4th morning after I had tagged out. We started the 20th and didn't even see many vehicles or horse trailers parked at the various trail heads we went by. I wonder if the nasty weather that hit there the first 3 or 4 days before we started ran everyone off the mountains when it normally would be crowded. It sure was a pleasant experience for us not seeing anyone else though. We'll be back over there on horses in moose unit 23 to try and fill the tag my buddy in Sheridan drew and get another nice buck for him the first two weeks of October and I can't wait to get out there and see more of that gorgeous country!
Tknez---All I can say is because of the way the G&F has set up the resident general tags that are good for G & H along with the other Regions other than LQ units I would sure like to live out there. They cut the NR tags for those two Regions because of residents griping about overcrowding, but don't want to help the deer population by doing what you mentioned by having similar dates. It doesn't make sense to me if the real goal is to keep a stable population of deer with a decent percentage of good, mature bucks!
Unfortunately our game and fish manages nothing for quality but rather for quantity and opertunity! They will say this to you straight faced and very proud of it. I think it is sad because I think we have all the ingredients to have both! Low population of people, great land, and great wildlife. I can't speak to why they cut the non residents tags, because it seems to me they never listen to many of us when we "gripe" about other things so I don't know about that... I will say this though, in my mind region G and for that matter H are top ten or maybe at worst 15 in the USA. For that reason I could never wrap my mind around why a person could hunt them almost every year in the past as a non res when all the other great areas were a oil tag...
LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-16 AT 09:50AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-16 AT 09:49?AM (MST)
I will also just put this out there for food for thought. In the last 7 years of hunting G I personally know of 12 personal friends or family that have hunted there. Of those there have been about 46 out of say 84 possible opertunities that those 12 people did hunt the area. Right off of the top of my head, I think out of those 46 times in the field I think there has been right at about 16 deer that have been harvested. Most of those deer have all been mature bucks. The reason I went through all of that is to say, at least in my experience we locals understand what a valuable resource we have and even though the gandf may not police us we police our selves! Oh and not to mention in those 7 years I have never not one time ever met a nother resident on the mountain while hunting or scouting! That blows my mind but it is true. There are not near as many residents that hunt in the high country as many would believe!
I will also just put this out there for food for thought. In the last 7 years of hunting G I personally know of 12 personal friends or family that have hunted there. Of those there have been about 46 out of say 84 possible opertunities that those 12 people did hunt the area. Right off of the top of my head, I think out of those 46 times in the field I think there has been right at about 16 deer that have been harvested. Most of those deer have all been mature bucks. The reason I went through all of that is to say, at least in my experience we locals understand what a valuable resource we have and even though the gandf may not police us we police our selves! Oh and not to mention in those 7 years I have never not one time ever met a nother resident on the mountain while hunting or scouting! That blows my mind but it is true. There are not near as many residents that hunt in the high country as many would believe!
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I personally can't complain about hunter crowding. Of course opening day is crazy, but after a day of hiking those mountains, most are sore and done for a while. So, it's not that bad. Maybe that's part of the reason the season is longer...???
Luckily, with so few roads and so much rugged country, it's a hard place for most people to hunt and so while many residents may hunt it, not so many can hunt it effectively. The outfitters and their clients are effective because they know how to do it well. But, there are getting to be more and more residents who are getting after it hard....scouting, hunting many days, in good physical condition, etc.
If I could live in Wyoming just for the hunting, I would. But too many reasons we can't move up there right now. I just do what I can to get myself the opportunity to hunt and/or just spend time backpacking up there. Will do so as long as I can and/or want to. Gotta' do what you enjoy while you can, right? Never know when time is up.
Brian Latturner
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Luckily, with so few roads and so much rugged country, it's a hard place for most people to hunt and so while many residents may hunt it, not so many can hunt it effectively. The outfitters and their clients are effective because they know how to do it well. But, there are getting to be more and more residents who are getting after it hard....scouting, hunting many days, in good physical condition, etc.
If I could live in Wyoming just for the hunting, I would. But too many reasons we can't move up there right now. I just do what I can to get myself the opportunity to hunt and/or just spend time backpacking up there. Will do so as long as I can and/or want to. Gotta' do what you enjoy while you can, right? Never know when time is up.
Brian Latturner
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-16 AT 10:46AM (MST)[p]Tknex: "For that reason I could never wrap my mind around why a person could hunt them almost every year in the past as a non res when all the other great areas were a oil tag"
You lost me in that statement unless you're talking well before us NRs went to the PP system because we can probably hunt G at best every 4-6 years now unless a person can party each year with a different NR that has max or near max PPs. I just feel very privileged to be able to go on the 15 day combo hunt this October as a non hunter that my buddy has booked to see more of that country that residents can hunt every year for a few dollars charged for a tag! After hunting for 63 seasons it really isn't that big of a deal for me to not be the one pulling the trigger, as that's not what I'm all about.
You lost me in that statement unless you're talking well before us NRs went to the PP system because we can probably hunt G at best every 4-6 years now unless a person can party each year with a different NR that has max or near max PPs. I just feel very privileged to be able to go on the 15 day combo hunt this October as a non hunter that my buddy has booked to see more of that country that residents can hunt every year for a few dollars charged for a tag! After hunting for 63 seasons it really isn't that big of a deal for me to not be the one pulling the trigger, as that's not what I'm all about.
I moved here for the hunting and lack of people. I think they should either limit people to regions or have all regions open the same day. As it stands I think I can hunt for pretty much two straight months with a rifle, two and a half if you include archery. This states F&G is run by the outfitters though, and they will get what ever brings the biggest bottom line.
Brian I agree with all you said. If I were a non resident I too would be doing what I could within the rules to try and hunt the area as much as I could.
Top gun I must have lost you there because you were not either interested in or just chose not to hunt that area as few as say 5 years ago. Before both the tags were cut to non res and the area started to gain popularity a few years ago one could hunt that area pretty easy with any luck every other year and for sure every third year. I have met and made friends with more than one group of hunters that have hunted it numerous times in just a few years!
Top gun I must have lost you there because you were not either interested in or just chose not to hunt that area as few as say 5 years ago. Before both the tags were cut to non res and the area started to gain popularity a few years ago one could hunt that area pretty easy with any luck every other year and for sure every third year. I have met and made friends with more than one group of hunters that have hunted it numerous times in just a few years!
>Brian I agree with all you
>said. If I were
>a non resident I too
>would be doing what I
>could within the rules to
>try and hunt the area
>as much as I could.
>
>
>Top gun I must have lost
>you there because you were
>not either interested in or
>just chose not to hunt
>that area as few as
>say 5 years ago. Before
>both the tags were cut
>to non res and the
>area started to gain popularity
>a few years ago one
>could hunt that area pretty
>easy with any luck every
>other year and for sure
>every third year. I have
>met and made friends with
>more than one group of
>hunters that have hunted it
>numerous times in just a
>few years!
You're right in that I was saving my PPs to hunt an LQ unit up near Worland, but it got worse for tags and the PPs required kept going up, so I couldn't draw it with my PPs. Ten years or so ago G could probably get drawn like you said right after the PP system started in 2006. Before that there was a chance to draw it every year when it was random only. I got the chance to hunt G last year and decided I better do it while I had the 6PPs that would easily draw it and because it was in the headlines for several years just like you mentioned. I went back over the G&F stats for the draw from 2010 to 2016 for it and the Regular PP Draw for an individual putting in for it took 3 those first 3 years, then 4 in 2013, then 5 in 2014 & 2015, and this year it took 6 for 100% draw. The Special Draw was about the same with the first 3 years taking 2, 2013 took 3, 2014 took 4, 2015 took 5 (4 was close to 100%), and this year it took 5 for 100% draw and with 4PPs it went way down to 11%. Therefore, I'm glad I did the hunt last year because it just keeps going up and I'm now out of the rat race.
>said. If I were
>a non resident I too
>would be doing what I
>could within the rules to
>try and hunt the area
>as much as I could.
>
>
>Top gun I must have lost
>you there because you were
>not either interested in or
>just chose not to hunt
>that area as few as
>say 5 years ago. Before
>both the tags were cut
>to non res and the
>area started to gain popularity
>a few years ago one
>could hunt that area pretty
>easy with any luck every
>other year and for sure
>every third year. I have
>met and made friends with
>more than one group of
>hunters that have hunted it
>numerous times in just a
>few years!
You're right in that I was saving my PPs to hunt an LQ unit up near Worland, but it got worse for tags and the PPs required kept going up, so I couldn't draw it with my PPs. Ten years or so ago G could probably get drawn like you said right after the PP system started in 2006. Before that there was a chance to draw it every year when it was random only. I got the chance to hunt G last year and decided I better do it while I had the 6PPs that would easily draw it and because it was in the headlines for several years just like you mentioned. I went back over the G&F stats for the draw from 2010 to 2016 for it and the Regular PP Draw for an individual putting in for it took 3 those first 3 years, then 4 in 2013, then 5 in 2014 & 2015, and this year it took 6 for 100% draw. The Special Draw was about the same with the first 3 years taking 2, 2013 took 3, 2014 took 4, 2015 took 5 (4 was close to 100%), and this year it took 5 for 100% draw and with 4PPs it went way down to 11%. Therefore, I'm glad I did the hunt last year because it just keeps going up and I'm now out of the rat race.
Tony,
Help me out with what bothers you about how the G&F manages deer in Western Wyoming?
Is it the season length? If so, what would shortening the season accomplish? I don't necessarily think that shorter seasons result in less deer getting killed. Do you? shorter seasons also help to pack more people into the hills. Less time to spread out the hunt. Look at Utah.
Is it the staggered unit opening dates? How would one common opening date help the deer herd?
Is it that residents can hunt any general unit? How would having to pick a unit help the deer herd.
Knowing your family and the quality of bucks you all take it would seem that you guys have things figured out nicely. You also mention that you never seem to see other resident hunters, so crowding doesn't seem to be an issue for you. If Western Wyoming really is one of the top 10 areas for mule deer and you and I can hunt it every year for several weeks with different opening dates what is the problem? I agree that the G&F openly manages for opportunity but they also get some great quality as well. If this is the case then what is the issue?
Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand your position since I respect you and your families knowledge of Western Wyoming's deer.
Help me out with what bothers you about how the G&F manages deer in Western Wyoming?
Is it the season length? If so, what would shortening the season accomplish? I don't necessarily think that shorter seasons result in less deer getting killed. Do you? shorter seasons also help to pack more people into the hills. Less time to spread out the hunt. Look at Utah.
Is it the staggered unit opening dates? How would one common opening date help the deer herd?
Is it that residents can hunt any general unit? How would having to pick a unit help the deer herd.
Knowing your family and the quality of bucks you all take it would seem that you guys have things figured out nicely. You also mention that you never seem to see other resident hunters, so crowding doesn't seem to be an issue for you. If Western Wyoming really is one of the top 10 areas for mule deer and you and I can hunt it every year for several weeks with different opening dates what is the problem? I agree that the G&F openly manages for opportunity but they also get some great quality as well. If this is the case then what is the issue?
Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand your position since I respect you and your families knowledge of Western Wyoming's deer.
Great question! I will try to answer them as to the way I see it.
First I think we really need to break down the south west from the north west. I really think that the north west part of the state has great deer heards in the hard to reach areas. I feel that the reason for this has nothing to do with the way they are being managed but more so that it is just that hard to get to them and there are a ton of residents like myself and others included that love to hunt those big bucks, but that hunt starts in July. I truly love to be able to take a big buck, but I feel as though it has been a great season if I scouted say 10 days see over 200 bucks and am able the get footage of say 10 trophey (170 plus class in my mind) class bucks. Weather I am able to take my target buck is the cherry on top! All of that being said I feel as equipment keeps getting better, and more people start to go into the areas where they live and take these bucks we will see that top ten status go way down. I would like my kids to be able to enjoy what I do now.... I just think that making a res at least "pick" his area would in my mind help. Maybe not a lot but at least a little.
I absolutely think that a season that runs for one month ends in more deer being killed. Aside from the math that more days has to equal more people in the field for more days and the higher opertunity to see and shoot a buck. There is weather to also take into account. I will guarantee you this. Take last year for example, I can almost say with 100 percent certainty that probably less than 5 percent of the deer killed in G and H in the high country were taken on the first two days of the hunt because of the weather. Now let's just say that storm would have lasted for say 5 days instead of 3 and the season was only 15 days. Would it be so bad if the success rate went way down for one year due to weather? Not in my mind it wouldn't be a bad thing at all. As far as them managing for opertunity over quality G and H are prime examples of just that. Are those areas great? Without a doubt!! Could they be better with just some small changes and still not costing all that much in opertunity? In my mind yes!
So as far as G and H are concerned I feel as though some small changes could help now and more so for the future.
Now to be honest I have thought these changes have been needed for a long time and so far (knock on wood) I haven't seen any difference in either the quantity or quality so I may be off when it comes to G and H.
So now let's talk about south west Wyoming! It is a disgrace! Deer should almost be put on the endangered species list! It has went so far down hill in the past 15 or so years that it would take imo a complete shut down of the entire Sweetwater county to help! And we all know the G&F do NOT have the balls to do that! This includes little mountain and Kinney rim. Which has been in their controll for about 30 years now! What happened right where we live, that is what worries me about what might happen in H and G if some changes are not made to be proactive instead of reactive!
First I think we really need to break down the south west from the north west. I really think that the north west part of the state has great deer heards in the hard to reach areas. I feel that the reason for this has nothing to do with the way they are being managed but more so that it is just that hard to get to them and there are a ton of residents like myself and others included that love to hunt those big bucks, but that hunt starts in July. I truly love to be able to take a big buck, but I feel as though it has been a great season if I scouted say 10 days see over 200 bucks and am able the get footage of say 10 trophey (170 plus class in my mind) class bucks. Weather I am able to take my target buck is the cherry on top! All of that being said I feel as equipment keeps getting better, and more people start to go into the areas where they live and take these bucks we will see that top ten status go way down. I would like my kids to be able to enjoy what I do now.... I just think that making a res at least "pick" his area would in my mind help. Maybe not a lot but at least a little.
I absolutely think that a season that runs for one month ends in more deer being killed. Aside from the math that more days has to equal more people in the field for more days and the higher opertunity to see and shoot a buck. There is weather to also take into account. I will guarantee you this. Take last year for example, I can almost say with 100 percent certainty that probably less than 5 percent of the deer killed in G and H in the high country were taken on the first two days of the hunt because of the weather. Now let's just say that storm would have lasted for say 5 days instead of 3 and the season was only 15 days. Would it be so bad if the success rate went way down for one year due to weather? Not in my mind it wouldn't be a bad thing at all. As far as them managing for opertunity over quality G and H are prime examples of just that. Are those areas great? Without a doubt!! Could they be better with just some small changes and still not costing all that much in opertunity? In my mind yes!
So as far as G and H are concerned I feel as though some small changes could help now and more so for the future.
Now to be honest I have thought these changes have been needed for a long time and so far (knock on wood) I haven't seen any difference in either the quantity or quality so I may be off when it comes to G and H.
So now let's talk about south west Wyoming! It is a disgrace! Deer should almost be put on the endangered species list! It has went so far down hill in the past 15 or so years that it would take imo a complete shut down of the entire Sweetwater county to help! And we all know the G&F do NOT have the balls to do that! This includes little mountain and Kinney rim. Which has been in their controll for about 30 years now! What happened right where we live, that is what worries me about what might happen in H and G if some changes are not made to be proactive instead of reactive!
LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-16 AT 11:43AM (MST)[p]Thanks for that perspective Tknez! I didn't start our hunt in the high country of G last year until 9/20 and from what I saw most everyone must have bailed out before we got there due to that terrible weather the opening 2 or 3 days that you mentioned. That was the case in both units the four days we hunted to take two nice bucks since we saw only two other people and they were also on horses. We were prepared to hunt until both units close on 10/7 and then if we hadn't tagged out to hunt 135 until it closed on 10/14. If all the country in those three units in G is as nasty and difficult to access without horses like where we went I don't see how people kill very many decent bucks. Even on horses to get up high it was certainly not a gimme, but they were definitely invaluable and I couldn't have done the hunt without one. You and yours must be some real studs if you don't go up into that country on horses and do as well as you stated just seeing good deer even if you don't shoot many. Kudos to ya Bro! IMHO as a NR that won't even hunt there again I think you are correct that if it is overcrowded the way to eliminate that would be to make them LQ or at least all with the same opening and closing dates even if the season isn't shortened.
LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-16 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]Tony, Thanks for your thoughts. I for one don't see a shorter season resulting in fewer bucks being killed. I think it will only serve to congregate hunters into a shorter timeframe. Those that are happy with any buck will get the last day syndrome whether the season is 30 days or 5. I also think it will put more people in the hills at any one time and therefore reduce the quality of the experience. As long as general seasons are not expanding into the rut I see no benefit to shortening them. I am not apposed to having to pick an area but ultimately I don't think this will result in less bucks being taken either.
I agree with you on the weather issue but that can be hit or miss from year to year. I personally did not go out until the day after last years early season storm. I never had any intentions of going sooner. I hate the opening couple of days. The day after that storm, you could not swing a dead cat without hitting a buck. They were popping up all over the place. If that storm had hit 3 days before the opener, then opening day would have been a slaughter. Too many unknowns on early season storms in my mind to base a change off.
I do agree with just about everything you say on SW Wyo. I was stunned by how bad 102 had gotten when I moved back to RS 5 years ago. My wife and I both got 102 tags a few years ago and she took a buck she was happy with but I never chambered a round. I can't see why anyone puts in for 102 except that it is an easy hunt. I work in 101 and I have seen a grand total of about 12 deer in 5 years. However, I don't think it is all due to poor management. I think there are much larger influences in the West over mule deer than how many tags are given out. Look how elk have flourished in those same areas over the last 30 years. Elk everywhere for that matter have flourished. The state cant hardly get people to kill enough elk in Western Wyo. Is this because of excellent management by G&F or is it due to larger more complex issues beyond our immediate control? I don't know for sure but why would G&F be great at managing elk but poor at managing deer. Steamboat is different animal all together. The G&F is very open about simply managing Steamboat to get some tag revenue and remove some pressure from the two point population in G. The majority of those that hunt Steamboat only go out one or two mornings and shoot the first legal thing they see. I suspect they would do the same in G if they did shut Steamboat down. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they did stop the season in 101 and 102 for 5 years.
Thanks again for your thoughts. Good stuff even if I don't agree with everything 100%.
I agree with you on the weather issue but that can be hit or miss from year to year. I personally did not go out until the day after last years early season storm. I never had any intentions of going sooner. I hate the opening couple of days. The day after that storm, you could not swing a dead cat without hitting a buck. They were popping up all over the place. If that storm had hit 3 days before the opener, then opening day would have been a slaughter. Too many unknowns on early season storms in my mind to base a change off.
I do agree with just about everything you say on SW Wyo. I was stunned by how bad 102 had gotten when I moved back to RS 5 years ago. My wife and I both got 102 tags a few years ago and she took a buck she was happy with but I never chambered a round. I can't see why anyone puts in for 102 except that it is an easy hunt. I work in 101 and I have seen a grand total of about 12 deer in 5 years. However, I don't think it is all due to poor management. I think there are much larger influences in the West over mule deer than how many tags are given out. Look how elk have flourished in those same areas over the last 30 years. Elk everywhere for that matter have flourished. The state cant hardly get people to kill enough elk in Western Wyo. Is this because of excellent management by G&F or is it due to larger more complex issues beyond our immediate control? I don't know for sure but why would G&F be great at managing elk but poor at managing deer. Steamboat is different animal all together. The G&F is very open about simply managing Steamboat to get some tag revenue and remove some pressure from the two point population in G. The majority of those that hunt Steamboat only go out one or two mornings and shoot the first legal thing they see. I suspect they would do the same in G if they did shut Steamboat down. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they did stop the season in 101 and 102 for 5 years.
Thanks again for your thoughts. Good stuff even if I don't agree with everything 100%.
huntfishall1
Active Member
- Messages
- 393
Brian, you are somewhat correct. There were at least a couple years where the season in 135 ended earlier than it does now. Like the 8th or 10th as you mention. I think they did this after the winters with the bad winter kill. But they have since gone back to the longer season which ends on Oct 14th.
>Definitely long season, but I understand
>the outfitters have businesses to
>protect and can't do it
>all in a week or
>10 days.
>But actually, it seems for the
>last few years the south
>end has closed on the
>8th or 10th or thereabouts.
>No?? Maybe I'm wrong, I
>don't know. Has it been
>the 14th the last few
>years?
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
>Definitely long season, but I understand
>the outfitters have businesses to
>protect and can't do it
>all in a week or
>10 days.
>But actually, it seems for the
>last few years the south
>end has closed on the
>8th or 10th or thereabouts.
>No?? Maybe I'm wrong, I
>don't know. Has it been
>the 14th the last few
>years?
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
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Steve your point about the elk is spot on! I believe that even makes my case more that something needs to be done for the deer before it is to late! The elk have flourished not because of the G&F but maybe even inspite of them... So if they/we sit around and do nothing but what is currently being done the mule deer herd is going to be hurt. Haha I was at a meeting this winter about setting the objectives and there were many things that struck me as odd. But here is one for you that really blew me away. This year they upped the elk tags in area 100 by quite a bit. I asked why and the answer I got was "there are a lot more elk out there than we thought, we haven't got a good count on them for the past several years. This year we found a few big herds we couldn't find before!" They were off by thousands! Ha I could have taken them out any day of the week and showed them all the elk they cared to look at!
Mark my words, if something is not done and soon with G and H it is going to start to look more like 102! I want our kids to have what we have now. I may not have all the answers or any of the right ones for that matter but I am sure if enough of us got together and put our heads together I think we could come up with something that might work. I do no this... If we wait for G&F to do our thinking for us you will be back to putting in for 102 cuz may as well hunt out of your truck instead of pack in and have the same type of herd to hunt!
Mark my words, if something is not done and soon with G and H it is going to start to look more like 102! I want our kids to have what we have now. I may not have all the answers or any of the right ones for that matter but I am sure if enough of us got together and put our heads together I think we could come up with something that might work. I do no this... If we wait for G&F to do our thinking for us you will be back to putting in for 102 cuz may as well hunt out of your truck instead of pack in and have the same type of herd to hunt!
Deerlove. It doesn't stop there... What about muzzy that shoot 300 yards, bows over 100 yards, lite weight gear, glass that we can see eyegaurds from well over a mile, rangefinders with built in ballistic charts, ect....
That is really to my point. Technology keeps getting better and better but nothing is changing when it comes to evening out the playing field in the deer's favor. I love all of our opertunities here in Wyoming, but I am willing to give a little now to make sure the ones coming up now don't have to give a lot!
That is really to my point. Technology keeps getting better and better but nothing is changing when it comes to evening out the playing field in the deer's favor. I love all of our opertunities here in Wyoming, but I am willing to give a little now to make sure the ones coming up now don't have to give a lot!
jm77
Long Time Member
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- 3,343
>That is really to my point.
>Technology keeps getting better and
>better but nothing is changing
>when it comes to evening
>out the playing field in
>the deer's favor. I love
>all of our opertunities here
>in Wyoming, but I am
>willing to give a little
>now to make sure the
>ones coming up now don't
>have to give a lot!
>
Sportsman came together and got aircraft banned for scouting big game. That's a positive for trophy deer!
It's all about what we will tolerate. Right now, trying to regulate technology is very tough when so many take advantage of it and we all have to some degree.
>Technology keeps getting better and
>better but nothing is changing
>when it comes to evening
>out the playing field in
>the deer's favor. I love
>all of our opertunities here
>in Wyoming, but I am
>willing to give a little
>now to make sure the
>ones coming up now don't
>have to give a lot!
>
Sportsman came together and got aircraft banned for scouting big game. That's a positive for trophy deer!
It's all about what we will tolerate. Right now, trying to regulate technology is very tough when so many take advantage of it and we all have to some degree.
I agree 100 percent with you about the technology it is not going to stop and we all take advantage of it! So the laws and rules need to keep up in some way IMO.
As far as the drone and aircraft ban... That is a nother topic all together. That ban needs to be pushed back until at least July first! Another question that we asked during that G&F meeting and they had no answer why August 1 was picked!? I will tell you why.... That date doesn't affect the outfitters all that much! They do most if not all of their flying in July! I was up last week and was being flown over by a plane I recognize from years past! I think that law was made against the average Joe like you and me that might get a drone.
As far as the drone and aircraft ban... That is a nother topic all together. That ban needs to be pushed back until at least July first! Another question that we asked during that G&F meeting and they had no answer why August 1 was picked!? I will tell you why.... That date doesn't affect the outfitters all that much! They do most if not all of their flying in July! I was up last week and was being flown over by a plane I recognize from years past! I think that law was made against the average Joe like you and me that might get a drone.
nontypical
Long Time Member
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- 4,195
Why not a year-round ban? At the same meeting you attended last winter, the local warden told me the outfitters are using aircraft to spot bears and lions as well...
I realize that bears and cats aren't the glamour species that big mulie bucks are, but what's right is right. Right??
Also, G&F has no credible data that show hunting season length affects total harvest. I would have to agree with Steve on that one for the most part.
I do see possible long-term negative effects on big mulies in our future if the herds do not begin to grow in G and H...
I realize that bears and cats aren't the glamour species that big mulie bucks are, but what's right is right. Right??
Also, G&F has no credible data that show hunting season length affects total harvest. I would have to agree with Steve on that one for the most part.
I do see possible long-term negative effects on big mulies in our future if the herds do not begin to grow in G and H...
Cliff I am all for the year long ban. We were talking about deer on here so I say it needs to at least by put to July 1 to do what so many think the current ban is ment for.
As far as shorter seasons, in my mind there is NO way shorter seasons wouldn't result in less deer killed. It is simple math. But if it would be enough to help, that is the question. As far as our F&G data... Well excuse me if I don't really put to much stock in what they think they know.... ?
As far as shorter seasons, in my mind there is NO way shorter seasons wouldn't result in less deer killed. It is simple math. But if it would be enough to help, that is the question. As far as our F&G data... Well excuse me if I don't really put to much stock in what they think they know.... ?
jm77
Long Time Member
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- 3,343
"As far as the drone and aircraft ban... That is a nother topic all together. That ban needs to be pushed back until at least July first!"
My concerns on this were noted in the initial talks on the ban. First, using aircraft to locate game is actually banned in statute. I still to this day don't understand how the G&F can regulate language in a statute. Second, big bucks and bulls are recognizable in July.
The G&F, however, wanted to regulate the ban to cover any legal big game season. We took what we could get, at that point, fearing the worst; no ban at all.
My concerns on this were noted in the initial talks on the ban. First, using aircraft to locate game is actually banned in statute. I still to this day don't understand how the G&F can regulate language in a statute. Second, big bucks and bulls are recognizable in July.
The G&F, however, wanted to regulate the ban to cover any legal big game season. We took what we could get, at that point, fearing the worst; no ban at all.
mntnguide
Active Member
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- 338
Here is something to chew on and im just throwing this out there, because it definitely could be a possibility. . .Shorter seasons= More people in the hills at same time trying to harvest and constant push of game around. Which in turn can easily end up in just as many if not more harvested than a longer season because animals dont have time to "escape" the crowd. In a longer season people spread out there time from beginning to end and the hills are not a constant crawl of people. With a shorter season, Everyone will be taking the same days off to hunt, and it will become even more concentrated than it currently would be. Look at the 5 day seasons in CO. Deer get hammered because everyone is concentrated at once. This is just my quick 2 cents, not arguing at all, but I could easily see a shorter season resulting in just as many animals harvested due to that scenario. Obviously weather permitting is a huge deal as well. . . In terms of outfitter airplane etc...How many deer do you think are killed a year do to the airplane? Though some big ones have definitely hit the ground due to it, it is not like every deer in the area is in danger of now being found. Outfitters such as Non-typical etc...will continue to hit their hot spots every year and will continue to harvest good bucks because of their constant knowledge and living in the country is their job. Yes the planes helped him kill some big ones, but it is not the reason the majority of deer are killed for outfitters, That comes from the fact they are in the hills everyday and know the country. I can about guarantee that if planes were entirely banned etc...those outfitters will probably still kill the same number of deer per year, maybe a monster or two would survive instead, but overall numbers will not be affected nearly as much as some people would like to think.
I would also like to see residents have to commit to a region. My only complaint about NW Wyoming is hunter management.
I would like to see the Sept rifle a LQ permit with about 2000 resident permits for region G & H ( or about 3/4 of residents that currently hunt these areas). In concert these areas should open to general season OCT 1st-10th The guys that had the Sept hunt can not hunt in Oct. Come Oct the big deer a timbered up and getting really hard to hunt but a guy could still put a deer in the freezer if that was his goal.
Studies show that success rates go up when their are more hunters in the field at one given time. Lower the hunters lower the success rates.
I would also like to see a very limited Oct 15-31st (like 10 tags per region). I feel like there are lots of western states that seem to offer these later season hunts and they don't seem to effect the resource. These could very easily be a primitive weapon hunt. This is mostly to alleviate draw odds and maximize opportunity without taxing the resource. With Wyoming winters and our deer in NW Wyoming that probably average a 5-8 year life expectancy its a bad plan to attempt to stockpile deer. The good news is short term trends show NW herds are headed in the right direction.
I would like to see the Sept rifle a LQ permit with about 2000 resident permits for region G & H ( or about 3/4 of residents that currently hunt these areas). In concert these areas should open to general season OCT 1st-10th The guys that had the Sept hunt can not hunt in Oct. Come Oct the big deer a timbered up and getting really hard to hunt but a guy could still put a deer in the freezer if that was his goal.
Studies show that success rates go up when their are more hunters in the field at one given time. Lower the hunters lower the success rates.
I would also like to see a very limited Oct 15-31st (like 10 tags per region). I feel like there are lots of western states that seem to offer these later season hunts and they don't seem to effect the resource. These could very easily be a primitive weapon hunt. This is mostly to alleviate draw odds and maximize opportunity without taxing the resource. With Wyoming winters and our deer in NW Wyoming that probably average a 5-8 year life expectancy its a bad plan to attempt to stockpile deer. The good news is short term trends show NW herds are headed in the right direction.
Tony,
So I had some time today and I thought I would look into your idea that technology is or could be resulting in more bucks being killed. I gathered some info, not entirely sure what it tells me but I think it could be interpreted a couple of ways.
All this information is strictly for the Wyoming Range Herd. The first graph shows total MD population since 1991. These are post hunt populations. Over the same timeframe it plots buck harvest that year.
The second graph shows total number of hunters and hunter success rates.
Just looking at 2000 through 2015, my interpretation of this data is that hunter success is directly tied to overall population. Hunter success has shown a slight general trend upwards over that timeframe but so has hunter success rates. The slope of those two trend lines is almost identical. If technology, or any other outside influence, was having a measurable affect on success rates then I would expect the slope of the hunter success trend line to be greater than the slope of the overall population trend line. I think it is fair to say that the big gains in technology have come since 2000. Maybe even a shorter timeframe is appropriate.
I also find it interesting that according to the data the Wyoming Range is not getting more crowded than it was in the past but rather it has decreased significantly. I think it is fair to say that the tree line country has gotten more crowded but not the overall range.
Now I am not a statistitian by any means and I am sure others might see this data differently but this is my take. Don't think any absolutes can be drawn from this data but I did find it interesting.
So I had some time today and I thought I would look into your idea that technology is or could be resulting in more bucks being killed. I gathered some info, not entirely sure what it tells me but I think it could be interpreted a couple of ways.
All this information is strictly for the Wyoming Range Herd. The first graph shows total MD population since 1991. These are post hunt populations. Over the same timeframe it plots buck harvest that year.
The second graph shows total number of hunters and hunter success rates.
Just looking at 2000 through 2015, my interpretation of this data is that hunter success is directly tied to overall population. Hunter success has shown a slight general trend upwards over that timeframe but so has hunter success rates. The slope of those two trend lines is almost identical. If technology, or any other outside influence, was having a measurable affect on success rates then I would expect the slope of the hunter success trend line to be greater than the slope of the overall population trend line. I think it is fair to say that the big gains in technology have come since 2000. Maybe even a shorter timeframe is appropriate.
I also find it interesting that according to the data the Wyoming Range is not getting more crowded than it was in the past but rather it has decreased significantly. I think it is fair to say that the tree line country has gotten more crowded but not the overall range.
Now I am not a statistitian by any means and I am sure others might see this data differently but this is my take. Don't think any absolutes can be drawn from this data but I did find it interesting.
Very interesting for sure! Here is something that really jumps out at me when looking at these graphs.
For the first time the total bucks harvested line is rising hard and crossed the population line. That is exactly what I am worried about. Although like you said major technology gains have been made in the last day 15 years, but IMO only say the last 5 or so years has this hit the average population. Let's just say that too graph continues on that trend for say 3 years. Not good!
For the first time the total bucks harvested line is rising hard and crossed the population line. That is exactly what I am worried about. Although like you said major technology gains have been made in the last day 15 years, but IMO only say the last 5 or so years has this hit the average population. Let's just say that too graph continues on that trend for say 3 years. Not good!
Interesting graphs for sure and I think I would agree with both of your comments after looking at them. I know one thing just from my hunt in G last year and that is a guy that can shoot out to 700 or 800 yards would sure have held the upper hand in the areas we hunted compared to the under 300 yards that I have to limit myself because of my poor eyesight! I'll know a little bit more about that since I'm tagging along for a 15 day horseback hunt my resident buddy has for moose and another mule deer there. I will say that both nice bucks we shot last year were about 185 and 285 yards and not that long range stuff I read about and see on TV. However, we saw the buck I shot the day before and he was way out of my range and no way I would attempt a shot, so we got set up before daylight the next morning and I made an easy shot of 185 on him. Our guide had a setup that he said he would have shot that buck the day before if it was his tag when we saw him at 700+ yards and he would have been 100% confident the buck would have been DRT. Those kinds of distances just don't seem fair to the animal IMHO, but the equipment is out there if a guy practices and knows what he's doing with it.
nontypical
Long Time Member
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- 4,195
The reason the graph spikes so high in '91-'92 is because you could take 13 deer each of those years. I'm not bull$hitting.
jm77
Long Time Member
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- 3,343
I wouldn't take a lot of stock in the comparison of the earlier data to the current data . Unless I'm wrong, the way G&F classifies deer has changed over the years and comparing the data with different methods in play, could skew the numbers.
At least this is what our mule deer group was told in central Wyoming when we were being told current numbers of deer were similar to the early 90's. Any one who hunts around here can tell you the population is drastically lower.
At least this is what our mule deer group was told in central Wyoming when we were being told current numbers of deer were similar to the early 90's. Any one who hunts around here can tell you the population is drastically lower.
LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-16 AT 07:04PM (MST)[p]I really do question how they come up with the deer tag totals. Region M used to have 1500 tags for the NRs, which IMHO was way too many. Then a few years ago they cut it to 1000, which was probably still to many. Now this year they cut it to 800, but took unit 36 off the Region tag and made it LQ with I believe 375 tags total. That again IMHO was way too many for an area where you can hunt for several days and not see anything but a rabbit or two. How in the world can they put that many tags for an area like that knowing that if even 25% of the tag holders shot a buck that there wouldn't be anything left for seed?
BigJohnson
Member
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- 94
By the way Region H is on fire at the moment.
BigJohnson
Member
- Messages
- 94
It has potential to get really big if the hot weather and wind continues. The popular areas for hunting have been impacted but it's too early to say. 0% contained at the moment
DoubleDropMuley
Very Active Member
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- 1,814
Yup still 0% contained!! 436 people 4 helicopters and 7 engines fighting it at this time. Steep country so I'm betting there counting on helicopters a lot !! Keep it safe and thanks for your efforts fighters !!!!!
>The incident commander said they will
>try to steer it to
>the higher elevations and into
>the wilderness where they can
>let it burn until the
>snow flies....So ya, they arent
>really planning on getting this
>one under control and put
>out anytime soon
That was my fear as soon as I read his post with that country probably being almost impossible to do much on foot. Will start praying for some favorable weather and for those people that do those jobs, as I wouldn't wish that work on my worst enemy.
>try to steer it to
>the higher elevations and into
>the wilderness where they can
>let it burn until the
>snow flies....So ya, they arent
>really planning on getting this
>one under control and put
>out anytime soon
That was my fear as soon as I read his post with that country probably being almost impossible to do much on foot. Will start praying for some favorable weather and for those people that do those jobs, as I wouldn't wish that work on my worst enemy.
DoubleDropMuley
Very Active Member
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Mnt guide may I ask where ya heard or read they we're gonna steer it to higher elevation and let it burn? I brought it up at work and was told they wouldn't do that. I've been searching for something in the articles but I can't locate any info along those lines. I am curious as that is my fall stomping grounds, Thanks
mntnguide
Active Member
- Messages
- 338
>Mnt guide may I ask where
>ya heard or read they
>we're gonna steer it to
>higher elevation and let it
>burn? I brought it up
>at work and was told
>they wouldn't do that. I've
>been searching for something in
>the articles but I can't
>locate any info along those
>lines. I am curious as
>that is my fall stomping
>grounds, Thanks
"The longer-term goal for the Cliff Creek Fire is to drive it up into the high country south of the Gros Ventre Range?s crest, where timberland transitions into rocky, alpine terrain.
On a large map, DeMasters? finger ran over the forestland to the east of Granite Creek. He traced a large swath of wildland to the north of the fire?s leading edge past Shoal Falls and up toward Antoinette Peak. Bridger-Teton Road 30590 marks the east boundary of the corridor where they'll try to direct the blaze, he said.
?Once it gets up into here, it's in the wilderness,? he said. ?If the plan goes well and it gets up into the wilderness, it could go until the snow flies.?"
...Article in the wednesday Jackson Hole News and Guide paper..interview with the Head of the fire command...http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...cle_b81599bb-ddfc-54c0-82a7-0e61f93841b4.html
>ya heard or read they
>we're gonna steer it to
>higher elevation and let it
>burn? I brought it up
>at work and was told
>they wouldn't do that. I've
>been searching for something in
>the articles but I can't
>locate any info along those
>lines. I am curious as
>that is my fall stomping
>grounds, Thanks
"The longer-term goal for the Cliff Creek Fire is to drive it up into the high country south of the Gros Ventre Range?s crest, where timberland transitions into rocky, alpine terrain.
On a large map, DeMasters? finger ran over the forestland to the east of Granite Creek. He traced a large swath of wildland to the north of the fire?s leading edge past Shoal Falls and up toward Antoinette Peak. Bridger-Teton Road 30590 marks the east boundary of the corridor where they'll try to direct the blaze, he said.
?Once it gets up into here, it's in the wilderness,? he said. ?If the plan goes well and it gets up into the wilderness, it could go until the snow flies.?"
...Article in the wednesday Jackson Hole News and Guide paper..interview with the Head of the fire command...http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...cle_b81599bb-ddfc-54c0-82a7-0e61f93841b4.html
DoubleDropMuley
Very Active Member
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- 1,814
Thanks mntnguide much appreciated!!!
grosventrehunter
Very Active Member
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If they push it northeast of granite creek it has plenty of country to burn. There is a ton of beetle kill in that area that could use a good burning. Should be interesting...
grosventrehunter
Very Active Member
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- 1,805
Not trying to hijack this post but I feel bad for those holding a 141 tag if this fire keeps moving. If they allow it to burn until the snow flies most of 141 will be burned up. 17,000 acres and no end in sight.
>Not trying to hijack this post
>but I feel bad for
>those holding a 141 tag
>if this fire keeps moving.
>If they allow it to
>burn until the snow flies
>most of 141 will be
>burned up. 17,000 acres and
>no end in sight.
If that happens I wonder if the G&F will offer people a choice to turn in those 141 LQ tags or transfer them to 2017.
>but I feel bad for
>those holding a 141 tag
>if this fire keeps moving.
>If they allow it to
>burn until the snow flies
>most of 141 will be
>burned up. 17,000 acres and
>no end in sight.
If that happens I wonder if the G&F will offer people a choice to turn in those 141 LQ tags or transfer them to 2017.
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