find that sword pt(long) and see what's behind it--then I check the 3rd pt--check for total main beam length and width if possible and how far the brow tines come out to the end of the nose--but it's sword pt and behind it first---doesn't always mean it's a whopper, as I have my buddies 315ish bull here and it has pretty good 5th pts, but short swords and real short 3's--front end is short also--if you saw him and could only judge his 5th's you'd whack him as they're about 10" long if not a hair more--that's what my buddy did--saw the back end and lead flew--it's still a nice bull, don't get me wrong--but with his 5ths and the fact that he's a 6x7 you'd think he would've been bigger--so the more you can see the better--doesn't always work out like that though does it---chris
