Here is the purposal

[browtine]

Well, The DWR in utah has made the purposal...If you disagree with this recomendation, I suggest you go to the RAC meeting next month.

" Recommendations from the Elk Management Plan Advisory Committee and the Division of Wildlife Resources for the 2005 Big Game Proclamation



1. Increase the opportunity to hunt mature bulls by reducing the hunter cap on spike bull elk units from 19,000 to 11,000 permits.



2. Increase the number of bulls carried over to older age classes on spike bull elk units by shortening the general spike bull season hunt from 13 to 9 days.



3. Monitor the average age of harvested bulls from all seasons on all limited entry hunts and provide incentives to encourage submission of teeth.



4. Maintain three categories of age class objectives and reduce the age class objective on the middle and highest categories to allow additional hunting opportunities on limited entry hunts.



5. Increase hunting opportunity by managing additional units in the 3-4 age class category where supported by public.



6. Provide a late season rifle elk hunting opportunity away from the rut that will reduce harvest rates and thereby increase future hunting opportunity.



7. Provide premium limited entry hunting opportunity that would allow a specific percentage of the limited entry rifle hunters to hunt all seasons for the premium fee.



8. Improve drawing odds by allowing hunters to apply for only one limited entry permit or one once-in-a-lifetime permit and to purchase a bonus point in the other category.



9. Continue to encourage hunting with primitive weapons on general season and limited entry hunts to provide a diversity of hunting opportunity.



10. Maintain the number of mature bulls on ?any bull? units by raising the objective from 8 bulls per 100 cows to 15 bulls per 100 cows or 12 bulls per 100 antlerless elk.



11. Increase youth hunt opportunities on any bull units.



12. Implement a preference points system for antlerless elk permits with 20% of the tags allocated for youth hunters.

Other Important Recommendations to the DWR, Wildlife Board, and Utah State Legislature from the Elk Management Plan Advisory Committee





1. The DWR should request that the legislature grant authority for setting the opening day of general deer season to the Wildlife Board rather than being set by state law. This would allow new options to move the elk seasons away from the rut into late October and allow an early October general deer hunt.

2. The elk committee feels strongly that the DWR, Wildlife Board, and the Utah State Legislature should pursue options to require hunters who participate in the big game drawing to also invest in habitat improvement and big game management. This could be accomplished by requiring a habitat license or hunting license be purchased prior to applying for limited entry permits or by increasing the cost of application fee or bonus points. Requiring hunters to apply by some type of cash payment option was also suggested."

www.browtine.com
Later, Brandon

 

[D13er]

proposal......

JB

 

[browtine]

thanks

www.browtine.com
Later, Brandon

 

[gonehunting]

Well it sounds like some good and some bad. They should try shortening cwmu's seasons.

 

[PleaseDear]

Reads okay.....

#8 really takes AWAY more opportunity to draw a tag. Every OIL tag I have drawn in Utah is because I didn't draw my LE tag.

So I probably still would not have drawn any tag, LE or OIL with the way #8 is proposed.

I appreciate all the time and effort all the folks on the Elk Committe have put in trying to get this all put together.

 

[ktc]

Maybe it would work... maybe not. My concern is not the amount of people out in the field as much as it is maintaining the outstanding quality we enjoy now. If opportunity can increase without damaging the quality I am for it; otherwise, don't fix what isn't broken. Whatever they do I hope it is small scale pilot program and expanded as needed.

I am going to sound anti-bowhunting, but I am not. I would say double or triple the amount of primitive weapon tags, put the hunt in the heat of the rut and use primitive weapons, like a cap and ball and recurves. I am really disturbed by the amount of animals I hear about with arrow holes in them and nothing to show for it. But that is another story....

I hope SFW gets involved and does what is best for the herd. I wish some focus would be put on deer instead of worrying about our flourishing elk herd.

Browtine, are you actively involved in the process of making change, or are you passing along information? It sounds as if you are involved and soliciting information to arm yourself with.

 

[Tbuck]

I believe the Fish & Game will continue to change things until they screw the elk herds up. I have waited for 11 years and holding, to draw a bull tag and I don't want to shoot a 320 bull when I do. It's not broke, so why do they keep trying to fix it? # 8 is a joke, I know people who have drawn several big bull tags and or several OIL tags while I have waited patiently drawing nothing, collecting bonus points believing it will one day be my turn. And it will as long as I draw before the Fish & Game decides to change the rules. I know people whom drew elk permits when Utah first started the bonus point system have had the opportunity to hunt that big bull then some of them got another chance with a AR301 and because they have discontinued the AR301 are now again applying for another elk permit. I have one under on max points for elk and I hope I draw before I can't afford to. I mean lets keep raising all the prices so only the rich can afford to hunt. We already pay the highest in state license fees of any western state. Does it really cost more to manage a big premium elk then a spike or a cow? Or is it always about money with Utah? I believe that Utah will continue to take advantage of the flourishing elk herds by continuing to raise the prices of the permits and allowing more permits to be issued until one day they realize it's all gone.

 

[400bull]

Just how do they plan on increasing youth hunt opprotunies on the any bull unites. The youth all ready have a hunt that starts prior to the general season elk hunts being started. Don't get me wrong, I want the youth to get hooked on hunting. This could mean the differenace from me being able to hunt in the future or not. But come on, just how many opprotunites do they need, special youth elk hunts, special youth LE permits, hunt all 3 season for deer, special water fowel hunts, special pheasent hunts, percentage of the general rifle deer tags. Is there any that I have missed? Just how many more hunts do they need? It would also be interesting to know the statistics on how many of the youth are successfull and how many gardeans (DADS)shot the animals for them.

I guess by now you can guess how I feel about the 20% cow elk permits. Yes the youth need to an opprotunity, and an opprotunity they have got they don't need any more then what they currently have.

400bull

 

[4x4elk]

MAN 400bull do you not have kids i use to live in utah and the chance the kids have now is great!!!!!!!!!!!! and if utah wants to give the kids all the chances in the world let them you people need to b!tch about the prices and not about the kids.
and if you think dads kill all the kids game you should think again and if it is going on you should get one of your 1,000,000
game wardens off they're ars and involved instead of b!tching about it

 

[browtine]

ktc...I am involved as a sportsman. I am only trying to get knowledge on this topic and other peoples oppinion. If most of the hunters agree with this, I would like to know that. I would also like to know what people disagree with it. I dont agree with the entire porposal at all. I am disappointed with some points that are being presented..but happy with others. I do want to know how people who are "up to speed" on the issues feel about this. I for one will be at the RAC meeting. I am hoping to get a better understanding from people here on mm.com.

www.browtine.com
Later, Brandon

 

[GFOUR]

we finally are starting to produce 400 class bulls in utah and now they want to screw it all up... they sould not change leave it be I'll wait my turn for the real chance at a monster bull not some rag... I am maxed on points and will probley stay that way for a while but at least I know that one day I could have a chance at a good bull... if I had it my way those of us that have had the pleasure of living in utah and have put in for the same LE elk tag since this system was put into place years ago would have first crack... as for the youth why in the #@%^ sould a darn 14 year old be able to have a LE tag... cut your teeth on a dang spike like everyone else and !!WAIT YOUR TURN!! that goes for everyone !!! WAIT YOUR TURN !!! and dont go messing it up for those of us that are ahead of you line -thank you- G4

 

[ktc]

Browtine,

I just feel like giving up at times. I have the points and am patiently waiting, but it sure seems that someone wants to throw a wrench into the system. I wish they would just leave things alone. No matter what I say, changes will be made to some degree. It feels like voting for president in Utah, the vote doesn't matter because of the electoral vote system.

The decisions have been made and those with a personal interest one way or the other will have bias toward their personal agenda. They have drawn and want to again or they have kids that are short on points and want them to shoot a 6 point now. I get the feeling that these RAC's are just a formality. Typical Utah, make rules, then 5 years later, rearrange them to fit the needs of those that decide.

If you are looking to see how people feel, then my feelings are leave it alone and let the people wait their turn as we all have to now.

Here is my proposal: Give every resident who has lived here their entire lives 1 extra point. Give one extra point for every 10 years of draw failure for a species. Give me one point just because it is me. Make trophy bull units once in a lifetime, it is anyway except for those who seem to be lucky bastards. Fix the deer herd, the elk are fine. Certainly energy could be put toward something in need of a fix. As dk says, look forward to some great pics in the Sportsman's Voice. Maybe next year we can look at some great 280 bulls. Put the rifle hunt in November to lower success, give me a break. I can kill 'em just as fast in November as I can in September.

I appreciate the fact that you get involved Browtine. That is more than I can say. Like I said I have virtually given up. Anyone who knows me knows that I have had it with redtape and government ran bull-##### by a bunch of incompetents.

 

[PleaseDear]

For what we pay to hunt in utah on draw tags, LE or OIL, we should have two chances to maybe draw. One in the LE group/species and one in the OIL group/species.

Playing on the lack of commitment on waiting for ones points to work is lame and miss leading. Who came up with the 'increase drawing odds' statistics?? and where would they find those numbers to say increase draw odds??

The youth hunts are in the wrong age class. These kids have to enter life before they beconme the future of hunting. Missions or the service or college then marriage and a few kids ect. If they want to go after the future of hunting move the age group to the 25-30 group. Those have more than likely extablished a job and are more stable financially.

Heck, five years.... how about every year they are changing stuff!!

 

[ktc]

PD,

You know I joined SFW. I got my Sportsman's Voice a month or so ago, and the point breakdown was in that publication. Well, I hate to say it, but just how dumb does one have to be to believe that breakdown. Your odds of drawing in that breakdown are not right. They were for that year, but not right for next.

For example; the max point holders get the best odds, after that who the hell knows, a guy with 10 points might be 1 in a 100, and a guy with 5 might be in in 30. All that tells me is the people with 5 that year were lucky bastards. The ones with ten were not. No statistical value at all for 2005. It also says that in 2 years all of the max point holders will be cycled out. Hogwash! I got a $100 that says in 2 years I still don't draw! Anyone want to take that bet including who wrote that statement in the magazine? I will wait though, because a 280" bull is not what I waited 23 years for.

Something has to happen, or not happen, but what ever it is I hope hope the final decision is not swayed by whine-asses who think Jr. needs a Pahavant tag next year since daddy had such a great time 2 years ago. Or those who shot a buck on the Henry's 3 years ago and don't think they need to wait and play the game to hunt elk.

Maybe a proposal should be you can sell your points. I would sell mine and spend a month in Mexico and the Carribean.