How to feed a Wolf

[misner5]

Click on the link for an interesting read...not an advocate of the method but...still a good read.



http://www.natureswolves.com/fighting_back/wolf.htm

 

[YukonDall]

TALK ABOUT A GOOD GAME PLAN,...... LET THE GAMES BEGIN. YD.

 

[dabassmasta]

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. It seems that all the morons that believe wolves are evil should analyze their own place in the food chain. who destroys deer habit? Who poisons our waterways, who takes more deer per year than all predators around? Well if we need to take out the number one predator of deer and elk, then let's poison ourselves and the people who hit deer on the roadways. This attitude of killing in the defense of deer is absolutly stupid. You guys should drink some clorox.

 

[kingfish]

dabassmasta, your an idiot...I'm a big wolf advocate but would never want you to argue the issue siding with me...This issue is extremely touchy within our hunting family and coming on here and insulting some of the members is unacceptable. Grow up and discuss the issue like a man or just go away. It's great that you passionate just don't be an idiot!!

 

[polarbear]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-05 AT 01:55PM (MST)[p]daassmasta
Ok, I will take you up on the Clorox thing if you do it too! You first! Dude, try using some common sense before you speak to a group of avid hunters and outdoorsmen like us. You are way out numbered here. Occording to your "logic" I should stop shooting coyotes and allow them to keep killing my cattle because, after all, the coyotes were here first, right? Aint gonna happen. Any predator, including wolves, crossing my or my neighbor's property is fair game and will delt with according to the way I see fit. End of story!

Eric

 

[kingfish]

dabassmasta, I apoligize for the name calling..I got a little carried away...Peace!

 

[D13er]

Dabassmasta,

You are an idiot, with wolves doing our job of killing elk and deer down to carrying capacity, we are done as hunters and that, My friend IS the "wolf" plan. Them or us.

And all you other wolf lovers, don't start in on me about wolves being part of natures life cycle. I know all of that and understand all of that but the west isn't the "BIG FRONTIER WILDERNESS" anymore. If we want to hunt we can't have wolves contolling game populations.

JB

 

[HunterHarry]

Alaska and Canada can support large wolf populations because of one common fact, they both have huge tracts of unbroken wilderness.
It just don't work when you have islands of habitat and no way to control the population.
End of story.
HH

 

[fatrooster]

Alaska and Canada also have giant herds of Caribou. Adequate food source. fatrooster.

 

[couesmaniac]

you are right d13er we are now the predetors in az they stopped trapping and the coyotee and lions are taking over at least we can still hunt them CM

 

[Hawkk33]

Why is it that Minnesota has a wolf population of over 2445 wolves and I do not hear of any issues of their destruction of herds of whatever being an issue? 321 wolves in Michigan and they still have whiteys to shoot.

271 in Yellowstone and 285 in Idaho.<<< those must be the killer that causes all this commotion.

RMEF estimates put the population of elk in the USA at 1 million, 10% of what historic numbers were. what % of that 90% that isn't here now are wolves responsible for?

Meriams elk are extinct as are Eastern elk wolves to blame for that as well ?

Lets just call the kettle black and say whats really on our minds. We, humans do not want any competition from any predators while hunting what we perversely consider "our" game.

Right?

 

[rost495]

And in Alaska the wolf numbers are high enough that they have started paying folks to shoot them out of airplanes to control the wolf population.

 

[foxtrot4elk]

"Perversely consider our game?" Well you got that right! Who brought back the elk? the whitetail? the turkey? Sportsman did.& the millions that have been and still are being spent every year out of our pockets didn't happen so we could feed "our" big game animals to wolves while we sit home losing our hunting rights.

Don't believe it? Read the latest issue of Bugle.The late elk hunt in Gardiner MT is being reduced by about 90% and this or 06 will be the LAST year for it. Then its OVER! Why? The wolves,(those 271 in yellowstone) have cut the elk from 19,000 to 8,000. So you go ahead and believe its no big deal but don't come crying when you want to go hunt elk somewhere and are told NO-the wolf comes 1st.


foxtrot4elk

 

[foxtrot4elk]

HAWKK33, One more thing,if you don't think wolves have affected Minnesotas deer herd,think again.

http://home.centurytel.net/PAW/home.htm

Heres a link for ya that shows #s and how many hunters are hunting elsewhere because there deer are being used for wolf food while the wolf there is protected from any sort of management under the ESA. By the way there are 60,000 of these wolves in Canada so they aren't in any way endangered.


foxtrot4elk

 

[4x4elk]

well guys look at it this way once the wolves wipe out our deer and elk heards there won't be any more fighting on this sight in who's wrong or right! my suggestion for this problem is to take a grizzly and a wolf or two back east some where like central park and then all the bleeding hearts that don't relize that yellow stone is in someones back yard out here can see the damage that they do.. and then ask if it is neat to see them there. yes we do need to control them and in my opinion if our goverment ain't going to do something than maybe it just needs to be done and ask forgivness later. just remember the three s's shoot, shovel,& shut the hell up and don't for get to disable the tracking coller if needed! just my thought on this and yes i know that we all have opinion's on this and i don't really care if it stinks it's still mine...............

 

[Lien2]

HAWKK33 -
Just curious where you herd the wolf pop in MN was 2000+?
I'm not saying your wrong at all, just wondering.
Thanks.

Lien2

 

[ELKMASTER101]

I THINK THYE SHOULD REINTRODUCE THE GRIZZ TO IOWA.
i live in Iowa, and think it would be great to have grizz. free roaming here.
it would surely cut down urban sprawl.
help keep down the tresspassing, and eliminate the congestion in the fields.
give me the bear, the wolf, and the elk and buffalo.
I love to hunt in areas where i have to worry about being part of the food chain.
personaly i think your an idiot if you venture into areas where these preditors exist and don't pack a hand gun.
by the way my wife and i have traversed all over the back country in yellowstone, when we were younger, even took our first child back into the back country,
but again i packed, illigaly I must add.
I have a thing for selfpreservation.
I think places like yellowstone park if your hiking the back country you should be allowed to pack a hand gun for selfpresurvation.
its funny how prior to the white man venturing into the animals domaine, the Indians/ Native Americans were able to coexist with these beasts.
enough said.

 

[kingfish]

I would gladly give up hunting if it meant having wolves and grizz in stable controlled populations for my kids and their kids to enjoy...This isn't about hunting it's about trying to rectify a wrong....Humans destroy everything they touch just for their own gain...Do I think hunting and wolves can coexist?? Of course they can but the priority has to be the survival of a species not the biggest head on the wall...Hunters should be the best conservationist alive!!. To bad we can't see the big picture instead of focusing on our own selfish wants....Just my opinion....

 

[foxtrot4elk]

king, I can certainly respect your opinion. The thing is, the wolves & grizzly is NOT endangered. I don't have any trouble with having them around but we need some control.
Man is also a predator & a part of nature. I don't believe I will give up my place in nature so another predator can devestate our big game herds.
The wolf pop is not only stable in Idaho but expanding at about 25% per year. Wolves breed like wildfire! Check out the links above or in the mansmentality thread.
If these killing machines aren't controlled all your kids will get to view will be wolves & grizz. Till the elk are all gone here then they can view the wolves eating each other.

http://home.centurytel.net/PAW/home.htm believe me this has been documented. With all due respect I can't believe one would give up his hunting heritage nor pass it on to his children in favor of viewing wolves sport killing our big game animals.

Hunters are the best conservationists alive,we are the ONLY reason that there are elk,deer,turkeys etc. The bunny huggers & non hunters certainly didn't self impose taxes or contribute in any other way to restore these big game animals that were almost extinct at the turn of the century.

foxtrot4elk

 

[kingfish]

Great post fox, We agree. I guess Im one of the wierd hunters?. Nobody loves to hunt more then me but there are more important things in life then my pleasures. I love nature and the way it sustains itself if man doesn't interfere. God had a plan and it work perfectly if man doesn't take more then he can eat. Nature cycles life based on conditions. I don't want to give up my hunting but if it's a matter of hunting or having nature intact I'll take the latter....We have to leave the big predators in the echo systems to keep them healthy and so our sons and daughters get to expirience the sighting or sound of a wolf howl or a glimps of a grizz.....Nature isn't natural without the big predators....IMHO.

 

[wideone]

Just out of curiousity,
How many people here have gone to meetings about the wolves?? And, how many have come with Ideas, not just gripes about the wolves and the government??

I've been following a wolf pack this winter, along with several other people. We track them EVERY day. I can honestly say that we haven't found a SINGLE elk or moose that they have killed which hasn't been completely consumed within two/three days. Do you realize how dangerous it is to try and bring down a bull elk, or moose?? Do wolves "sport hunt?" Yes, But so do humans.. And just like humans, it's not the norm.

I've learned a TON about wolves by following them every day, and even more, I've gained much respect for them. That being said, I totally agree that wolf management is a MUST.. But until everyone comes together with ideas besides S.S.S.,,, It's going to continue to be a mess.
You can poison wolves, but I PROMISE you'll end up killing tons of other species in the process. How people justify that in their minds I'll never know.
If you hate wolves with all your heart, I respect that. Just be sure and speak up about what you feel we can do at this point to maintain healthy populations of wolves and elk. It can happen, and it's going to happen..

 

[Gator]

I hear that a 330# conibear set in a 30 gal barrel(w/Bait) has the same affect on Mtn Lions, Coyotes, wolves,or any other predator, breaks the neck in one swift blow. Area's that have deer yards(wintering grounds) can set up several of these and thin out the predators and save more deer, Needs a Trappers license and a place for it to be legal.

 

[foxtrot4elk]

I appreciate all the honest opinions that have been posted.
I hope no one has mistaken my passion on this subject to mean I want total eradication. I just want to see some control. I believe that shooting & trapping will have little impact on the wolf population. It certainly doesn't on coyotes.
I farmed for 6 years & shot coyotes on site. In the rare occasion that you knock there #s down their litter sizes increase dramaticly. This has been documented. From everything I have found on the wolf they do the same. Short of poison( which I DON'T agree with) I don't believe their #s will ever be in jeopardy in ID, MT or WY again. Once we get to start shooting at them I have a feeling they will wise up in a hurry.We get to hunt Cougars & Bears.I say its time to hunt Wolves as well. Our government is shooting wolves as we speak that are causing problems already. Why should we pay for this? Lets sell some tags and let hunters control these predators as we control the others.

(except in CA where the cougar is evidently sacred to the hollywood crowd)


foxtrot4elk

 

[bittersweetmuleymeat]

This is a touchy subject for sure. Our world has changed so slowly for hundreds of thousands of years, and the last 150 our "progress" is beyond comprehension.
We are definately "the keepers" Who are goverment should manage various types of game and predators for is a matter of opinion. This is just "a blink of an eye" in earth time. Hope we make the right decisions, and I am not sure what they are.

 

[WyomingTrophyHunter]

Yes the wolves are something to deal with, but here in northwest wy, I horn hunt alot, I go on the winter ranges and look for sheds. And since the wolves have been introduced the winter kills have went up only a little. The wolves have little effect on the elk, so people get real carried away on this issue.
WTH

 

[ZAMGUY]

I live in Minnesota, and there aren't 2500 wolves here. The latest estimates from the DNR put the numbers between 3500 and 4000. All of the wolves in Wisconsin and Michigan are from Minnesota. I'm not sure how that website can say that Minnesota's deer harvest is going down, it has been nothing but record harvests for the past three or four years. We have over 1 million whitetails in Minnesota, and just about every deer zone in the state the last few years could harvest up to 5 deer per person. The DNR is even talking about having a early doe gun season in October this year, the same thing Wisconsin has because there are too many damn deer. I believe we have about 8000-10,000 moose in Minnesota too, and wolves take some of them every year too in the extreme Northeast part of the state. I have seen about 50 wolves in my lifetime(32 years). I have seen them stalking my goose decoys in a wheat field, seen them in the BWCA, seen them eating road kill off a main highway, seen them chasing deer in the middle of summer across a main highway, seen them in the backyard of my parents house( 2 blocks from the elementary school), seen them AS road kill off a main highway, and last deer season saw one in the back of a CO's truck that had been shot by a deer hunter. I guess even with 4000 wolves here, we can still shoot some deer because the population is so high. Don't forget, wolves get mange too and that can wipe out quite a few in only a winter. And the winters here the past few years have been VERY mild, so it is harder for the wolves to prey on wintering deer because there is not much snow. With this said, I will be the first one in line for a wolf tag if they ever get delisted. I know where a few of them live...

 

[elkantlers]

wideone posted, "I've been following a wolf pack this winter, along with several other people. We track them EVERY day. I can honestly say that we haven't found a SINGLE elk or moose that they have killed which hasn't been completely consumed within two/three days."

those elk and moose that you have found have not been cleaned up by wolves, they are cleaned up by coyotes, crows, and magpies.

wolves will gorge themselves after a kill, and leave the rest. when they are hungry again, they find a new victim. then the process starts over.

 

[cmiddleton]

while we are on touchy subjects how about the griz i live in wyoming and there are spots in this state i wont go i'd love to hunt muleys around dubois but due to the fact a griz has more of a right to live then a human i avoid the conflict buy not going there.
my cousen when there last year and had a griz run in. he did as they say and held his pepper spray out and yelled hay bear.
luckly the bear huffed two times and walked away after the bear left he discovered the safty was still on the pepper spray.
if the bear would have attacked he would have been malled.
if i was in the same situation i wont the right to use my 300 mag enstead of pepper spray.
wolves here in wyoming need to be listed as a predator when found on privete land that is what everyone here wonts and the feds should not even be involved in the decision this is a states right not the feds.
the feds should run the army's and the interstate highways and make sure the constitution is upheld everything else should be the states choices.
no animal should have more rights than man but griz do.

 

[wideone]

cmiddleton,

I'm sorry that you're so terrified to go into grizz country, your missing out on some of the best country there is.. My buddies and I hike around the Absaroka mountains, to the East of Cody and we still have all of our fingers to type with. It holds some of the most dense populations of grizzly in Wyoming.
I'd have to disagree that a grizz has more of a right to live than a human though.. I don't think that any of the guys out there managing grizzlies have ever made that statement, or backed it up by any action.(or the lack of)

I respect your opinion on listing wolves as predators.. Just wondering,, if too many are killed, and they drop below management objectives, do you really want to see them ALL go back on the endangered species list?? I heard a wolf howling early Saturday morning, and I have to say it was an amazing experience that I truly appreciate.

I admit, both species are a tough subject, but I also believe that we are EXTREMELY lucky to hike in mountains that still have them around. Then again, I don't live my life in fear, so maybe that just makes me plain crazy!!
Have a good one,, Wideone

 

[cmiddleton]

wideone i'm not afraid of them i just wont the right to use deadly force if needed. if it was a burgler coming at me with a knife i could shoot him and the same should apply to a bear or any animal.
as far as wolves fence yellowstone and keep them there if the feds think they must be but they should not be allowed on privete property at all and any kill that is eaten by wolves should be paid for if it livestock or pets we don't wont them and never did but the feds shoved them down our throat and as a state we should not have to pay one thin dime to support something we didn't wont in the first place.
if they were extinct in wyo it wouldn't hurt my feelings they are not a endangered animal just a transplanted one.