Bullet Question

4x6 · Oct 21, 2004

i have a Question mabye some of you could answer, i sighted in my 30-06 last night shoting a 165 grain bullet, the bullets are approx.5 years old or more and last night i had 3 bullets out of 12 that when i shot had a big fire ball coming out the end of the barrel, could the bullets being old do this or is there something else that could have done that? thanks for any help on this matter.

GoJuRyuGoDan · Oct 21, 2004

LAST EDITED ON Oct-21-04 AT 08:23AM (MST)[p]There are many things that can contribute to re-loading error.
I have always made sure I always use the same things;
Primers, same brand of brass(30-06 will have many options so be picky),Powder, and depth of seating.
You didn't say if you trickle and weigh every load,some powder measures might not throw the same every time.
Do you use new primers? How old is your powder?
A light load may be more dangerous than a heavy one in some situations.
Or , is this factory ammo? if it is 5 years since you bought it,it may be even older than that.
Be carefull, ask your gunshop pro, take a few cases in to show so they can be checked for preasure signs.
Make sure you clean all fouling from your bore and that your barrel is safe to use,
I am interested to know what you find out,
B

dakotakid · Oct 21, 2004

I dont see where he mentions these being re-loads so I'll go with the assumption that this is factory ammo. If its five years old I wouldnt trust the ammo, for about 20 bucks you can have a new box, I wouldnt even trust the sight in job on the old ammo. 3 out of 12, thats a 25% failure rate, way to high to even consider going afield with.

Mike

ICMDEER · Oct 21, 2004

I've never heard of such a thing. I load a lot and shoot a lot of old ammunition. I'm with the other guys. Throw that ammo away and start fresh. To heck with the group. I'd be concerned about safety.

Good luck.

4x6 · Oct 21, 2004

no they are not relods. they are store bought. last year i sighted in and used new bullets and i could cover 3 shots with a nickle. now it was more to the right and a little low so i moved the elevation up 4 clicks and moved it over to the left 2 clicks the second to last shot was about 2 inches high wich is right were i want it and the left to right was pretty damn close. that was the last of my shells so i am going to buy some tommorrow. what brands do you recomend? i have used hornady, and remington. is there a better brand i should try?

wallhanger · Oct 21, 2004

I may be stating the obvious here, but I noticed you said "last night". When there's low light, you'll see the muzzle blast at the end of your barrel. When there's more light, I assume it's still there, you just don't see it. Obviously it could be a problem with your ammo, I just thought I'd mention that in case this is the first time you've fired your rifle in low light.

WH

dakotakid · Oct 21, 2004

4x6,

If I am going to shoot factory ammo out of my 30-06 it is going to be Federal Premiums in 165 gr. In my personal experience it is the ammo that my gun likes run down its barrel. Never had a misfire or hang fire and always accurate.

Mike

4x6 · Oct 21, 2004

thanks! i shot yesterday after work down at arms plus in ogden utah there is light but not real bright but like i said it was only 3 bullets that i could see the fire. thanks mike i will try the federal premiums is there anybody else that has a good brand of shells? the one problem i have had with the hornady and remingtons is the led tips are smashed or nicked some how they come that way right out of the box. i dont know if that has any affect on the bullet but it just makes me a little bit nervous. does that affect the bullet?

rost495 · Oct 21, 2004

I"m with WH on this. Depending on the powder used by the factory and the barrel length, you will get bigger or smaller fireballs at the end. They are always there day or night to some extent. But always much more visible as it gets darker.

I am still loading match ammo from a 200 pound keg that was manufactured in 1972 and it still works just fine. Shelf life of components, stored correctly, can be measured in double digit years for sure.

I'd bet if you buy the same ammo and shoot in the same ambient light conditions(low light, dusk, or dark) you'll repeat what you saw.

Just my guess

Jeff

GoJuRyuGoDan · Oct 21, 2004

Definateley Federal Premium with a premium bullet, I like Swift Scirocco.
B

woodruffhunter · Oct 21, 2004

Great comments and a good post. I agree, I would go with federal and stay away from Winchester

dakotakid · Oct 21, 2004

My brother-in-law had a clip full of ammo in his Browning semi-auto .270 and had an antelope in the scope, damn thing clicked once, he ejected it, tripped the trigger again and the dreaded CLICK, ejected that one and the third one fired. I looked at him and said, lemme guess, Winchesters. Uh huh he replied. I cannot believe that company still sells ammo with all the bad you hear about them.

Mike

GoJuRyuGoDan · Oct 21, 2004

I have heard the same mis-fire story involving a Browning Semi Auto.

woodruffhunter · Oct 21, 2004

I have posted this before but here is the results of Winchester factory ammo.

rost495 · Oct 21, 2004

Tests done at 600 yards in match ammo that I shoot shows no appreciable effect to somewhat damaged tips. Translate that to shooting at game at normal distances you'll never see it.

Shooting out to 1000 yards in match rifles the meplat(tip) being uniform from round to round can make the difference between winning and loosing, but not so much as making a bad shot or missing the wind.

Jeff

dakotakid · Oct 21, 2004

Very good info Jeff, thanks for posting that. I've always wondered what a buggered up tip would do in terms of accuracy.

Mike

4x6 · Oct 21, 2004

thanks guys for the input! i quess it will not hurt to have bullets with buggered up tips then. smith and edwards had some federal premiums for $12.99 o box but when i looked at them they also had the buggered up tips, i thought that i wanted a box of hornady or remingtons again but i quess not. i will stop and get a box on my way up tommorrow. thanks for all the help....

dakotakid · Oct 21, 2004

12.99 a box? Buy every box he has, I cant ever find them for less than about 18 dollars a box.

Mike

NUNYA · Oct 21, 2004

Saw a guy blow a 28,000 dollar tag and a 393 net bull at 20 yards with a Browning Auto that didnt fire. Although it wasnt the guns fault, if he would have cleaned it it would have fired.

GoJuRyuGoDan · Oct 21, 2004

So, who then shot the bull so you could measure it?

rost495 · Oct 21, 2004

Interestingly enough with respect to Winchester, they re-engineered their primer cups fairly recently and have gone from nickle plated to normal brass color cups. They are so thin and sensitive that they are prone to slam fires in Semi autos and piercing extremely easy with warm handloads.

Seems interesting to find that Win rounds would not fire.

Not saying its not true, just the opposite has been found in the reloading circles of match shooters for the last few years or so now(can't recall exactly when they changed). Their change was to prevent misfires.

Being that I have not fired a factory load in maybe 20 years, I'm not sure about the ammo, but the primers now days are sensitive. All that being said if you have excess headspace in any rifle, it'll allow the cartridge(depending on the size of the brass) to " fall in too deep" into the chamber, and get way less than the engineered impact of the striker to the round under normal circumstances.

Jefff

Jeff

NUNYA · Oct 21, 2004

Gojuryugodan, A fellow by the name of Jerrell Coburn ended up killing the bull a couple days later. There is a picture of it on Mossbacks web site. It was in 2002 he has an extra on the inside of his frame.
I seriously doubt it was winchester ammo that failed in the above mentioned post was probably a dirty action in the rifle.

rost495 · Oct 21, 2004

I shoulda caught the semi auto part of the post. Missed that totally. Caught it when one poster noted it was a dirty rifle.

Folks that pick a semi auto(for what reason I can only imagine) need to maintain it very well. They do not have much camming action to force a round into a dirty chamber. Which will also quickly lead to a misfire. Just as too small headspaced ammo can do.

Jeff

fisrtcoueswas80inches · Oct 22, 2004

the price that i pay for my federal premiums, high energy trophy bonded bear claw tip the scales at 34.99 a box!!!! very expensive, but buy does my gun shoot them well. they also state that the high energy rounds push the 165 grain bulets at 3,000 fps, very good for a 165 grain bullet out of a 30-06, thats why i shoot them!!!!
Casey

rost495 · Oct 22, 2004

BTW all my information being said, I'd still use a clean tip if it was a 300 yard shot or longer. Just simple peace of mind. I know it won't make a difference BUT.....

stinky · Oct 23, 2004

This is a lenghty thread, and I haaven't read every one thouroghly, so sorry if this has been stated before. The ammo you sighted in with should be the same ammo you buy. If you buy dif. ammo than you sighted in with, then re-sight in. Some guns are real picky about dif types of ammo, even within the same weight, just switching brands.

Not really enough info, but the flash (especially that you were shooting indoors) doens't mean anything. Everyone of em shoulda had a flash. I'd say that there ain't nothing wrong w/your original ammo. But, I also agree buy new ammo.

What kind of group does your old stuff shoot? That would be the measure.