THANKS United States Outfitters (D-CKS)

U

UThunting

Guest
Well I just read that Arizonas Premium Elk tags are going to cost $3200 Sounds like the rich people win again

I dont really blame Arizona I would probably do the same but as a non-res it shure will make it hard to put in there if not at all

DO you all think this is because the court case last year???

Or am I just nuts

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
willard Ut
 
I got the info from the hunting fool magazine I just got it today

I shure hope its a mis-print

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Ut
 
The price of the tags have not been set yet, There is talk about raising the ceiling of the tags but at this time there is no amount set
 
HullinPhx

THANKS for the info I will keep a close eye on this i hope if it gos up it will not be anything like $3200

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Ut
 
I have seen the $3200 in print, I think it was sent to me by Utah. However, these are PROPOSED CEILINGS, not for sure tag prices. They can pass these ceilings without actually raising prices for now, then gradually get them up there. I would not bet on it not happening. Pretty sad.

Yes, it is because of the USO lawsuit in my opinion.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Word is that th legislature will not get the cap approved in time for this year's draw. It may take quite a few years to get to the cap, if approved. But if they do raise prices much higher than a reasonable person could expect when buying the license for points, I feel you have a legitimate gripe. Oh well, for this year, your points are worth a bunch. Makes you wonder about draw strategy. Should you put down an easier to draw second choice to try to cash out your points before the price increase? Stay with only what you really want, perhaps being priced out in the future and turning your points worthless?
 
Non-residents with multiple bonus points should have a big step up on getting drawn this coming year with the "evening out" of res vs. non-res odds (that edge won't last but a short while). And the dollars mentioned for licenses/tags are indeed CAPS that probably won't see actuality until a year from this coming Fall. Those caps should then be in place for the following 10 years ...


Lv2hnt
 
Sad deal for sure. The only folks that could afford those fees are the ones that USO has as clients.......... So George wins again.......
 
Actually those are the projected caps BUT that is over a 10 year period.
The price for resident and non resident are all going up BUT not for the 2005 drawing possably the 2006 drawing if legislature approves the bill.
Now Arizona is Calling them a premiun Tag ie early bull tag or a Kaibab or strip deer tag
Than you have your regular tags which aren't so expensive.
Even a resident has to pay a premium price for a early bull tag or a strip tag
About the projected caps on tags The fee will slowly increase over a 10 year time table. Arizona has not even capped the max rate for non residents in it's current policy for sheep,so you won't see a 3500.00 price tag for a early bull tag for a long time.
If you have ever hunted any of Arizona's premium area's ie strip,Kaibab or unit 10,9,7,bull you will see Arizona has the quality of animals that most states dream about so a increased price tag is in order.
Unfortunately AZ got it butt kicked by USO last year and feels that they need to raise the tag prices to accomadate those premium area's.especially when residents are only getting equall chance to draw a tag in there home state.50%
This year the only differance in Arizona is you can't use the internet to apply you have to mail a check or money order for the license and tag fee and hope to get drawn.
The fee's will stay the same and hopefully in 2006 the fee's will change
Boys and Girls all the other states are looking at what Arizona is doing and are implementing some sort of tag and license increase.
 
wahoo! Mail in tag fees, that that stuff was almost extinct! With that and NR is same draw as res. this will be a great year for a AZ tag.

I have not got my huntin fool yet (Feb 1)? What gives? I heard NM is in this issue too, cannot wait to study up some more on some units there.
 
The bigger picture

LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-05 AT 07:08AM (MST)[p]Guys,

This sqabble over tags, outfitters and increasing the fees will only hurt our sport in the Long run. I wish AZ would look beyond the length of their nose.

I told everyone 2 years ago that eventually the feds would get involved when Prices and the economics of Elk Hunts started to warrant the consideration. As I own an interstate chemical transport company, I know too well the laws against the hindrance of business across state lines. Add to that the fact that much of the premium elk habitat is owned by the federal government and you have a problem that will snowball.

AZ should have been modest with it's fees, and actually should have given Non Residents a better shot years ago....we would not even have this situation.

When one looks at the bigger picture.....you can see who will actually benefit. What we should be doing, is offering cheaper tags to Youth, Handicapped, Seniors and perhaps even designate some tags to a "take your daughter hunting" program.

Instead....we have a state commission trying to get some payback for losing a fight they could have avoided in the first place.

You may not like hearing it...but it is the truth. I encourage eveyone to try and get them to consider the bigger picture and put the sport first and consider the working man that may or may not live in their state.

Cheers
Roadtrip
 
RE: The bigger picture

LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-05 AT 01:56PM (MST)[p]Roadtrip,

" AZ should have been modest with it's fees, and actually should have given Non-Residents a better shot years ago....we would not even have this situation."

I would challenge you to look at the Non-Resident Elk fees in every state that touches AZ and then come back and tell me they (AZ) were not being modest. As far as not getting a fair shot at a tag goes, try to get a Premium tag in Utah or Nevada! Good luck Big Boy!

This situation was inevitable because when money and greed is involved some low life will always try to dip their hand in the cookie jar.
 
RE: The bigger picture

Hey Roadtrip, explain just how federal regulation will be beneficial to us all. That's just exactly what alot of the nonhunting concerns want to happen so they can get more areas and species protected so maybe you need to rethink your position on more federal regulation. By the time the greenies get done we won't even be able to walk on federal lands for fear of crushing out some life form.

If you want hunting to continue at a reasonable cost structure you need to get behind Sen. Reids bill to get the control back in the states where it rightfully belongs. That will put an end to this nonsense and get things under control and protect the rights of the common man. We all agree with you that hunting should be an affordable venture. As to the state giving in to Taulmans demands all I can say to you is the further one is from an issue the less clearly one really seems to be able to see it. You really haven't got a clue on what he was really attempting to do with the big picture!

Take the time to tell us just how many ways the common man has benefitted from this legal action of equality. If your buying the USO viewpoint and the Dallas SCI viewpoint you really are hauling around the wrong chemicals and maybe should be thinking more along the lines of hauling Methane! Because that's a natural byproduct of what they are slinging! Then and only then you might be able to really see the big picture!
 
RE: The bigger picture

"Big Boy"...(Wondering if Tinaj is gay or straight),

I know all too well the tribulations of drawing that UT tag...I put in for my rejection letter every year. This thread was about AZ....so I did not comment on all the other states. You can just as well substitute several other state's initials and my post would be just as valid.

As the disparity in fees and availability between R and NR increases, more issues will be pulled in front of a judge. Eventually the argument will be why is Federally owned land hunted only by states residents to the preclusion of all others? Is that not on it's face discriminatory? (Save me the speech about game being the states...I understand that argument well) Add in the ICC arguments and several others.....and it is only a matter of finding the right judge. I saw it coming. Just because the supreme court voted one way many decades ago, doesn't mean it will next year. When the fees become so large that they are in defacto an unfair "tax", this administration may find that offensive. Again....this is a fight that could have been avoided with a more prudent allotment of the rights to hunt federally owned land. If you don't like it...I'm sorry...it is still the truth.

-Roadtrip
 
RE: The bigger picture

Boskee....

I don't buy anyones argument...I formulate my own opinions after years of experience and my own realities. I spend hours and hours and piles of money just trying to draw a good tag. I don't have a home state tag to fall back on. We only have a handful of Elk here...they have just been re-introduced. People bit#ed at me years ago and laughed when I said that the High fees and small chances given to Non Residents was nuts and it would be in a courtroom soon enough.

Second.....It is kind of funny to see Ried argue for States rights when he and his political party have argued against it for years. Ie..Roe V. Wade, Marriages, etc.... His party's platform has been federalism and not states rights. Strange.

Lastly....USO didn't come up with a $3200 tag...but I'm sure they will blow a lot of cash taking it to court. Deja Vu all over again...didn't I say that if they had given better odds to Non residents and prices that this wouldn't happen?
There must be an Echo in here. :) I'm done with this thread...I'm not going to change my mind..and as an RMEF supporter, and an avid Elk Hunter, I will always contribute to any effort that allows all americans to experience the joy of Elk Hunting.

Cheers,
Roadtrip.
 
RE: The bigger picture

Roadtrip, Nobody expects or wants you to change your mind. The facts in this matter clearly speak for themselves and I can't see any reason his suit benefitted you or I even remotely! I have nothing against nonresident hunters coming out here to hunt anything and they are welcome. But all this action has done is make it more difficult for everyone to hunt except those that are well heeled. All this wasn't done for the good of hunting just to make it better for those of means to hunt. Money affords priviledge and opportunity and as a result of this action throughout the west the common mans chances to hunt are diminished.

I could care less if the devil himself proposed legislation to take the commerce loophole out of the equation and return the control to the states. That is precisely what Reids bill will do on this matter. This is not a republican or democrat issue it's an American issue and one that hits close to home for most of us. More federal regulation will only confuse the issue more and drive the pricing higher and offer less opportunity. Where would we be today if USO hadn't started this mess? I can only say we would all be in a lot better shape than we are today! I'm glad to see you support RMEF as do I and we all share a love of Elk hunting and I earnestly hope for all our sakes this get's resolved before we have little to no opportunity to hunt at all.
 
RE: The bigger picture

Roadie-Some of what you say has merit but some don't. The fees are jumping in all the elk states an AZ has designed the caps to fit in legally. These are ten year caps and every increase still requires approval so AZ will continue to be a bargain relative to others thus no lawsuit here from the blowhard. If Reid's bill doesn't pass then I can see the state voting to outlaw commercial use of game and bingo-no outfitters. That is a bad thing IMO as NR hunters may not have the time to scout. If it is done by initiative then it will hold up in court. With all the BS and emotion on the USO deal I think it has gotten hunters more politically active and also interested in what is good for our future. I see NR hunters benefitting but not having equal chances as residents when it is all settled. I also see us all paying a lot more money for our priveledge to hunt.
 
RE: The bigger picture

All I know is with all of this BS going on it sure makes me appreciate my "Bull of a Lifetime" because it will most likely be my LAST chance at ever hunting one again.
 
RE: The bigger picture

I put in for big game in all the western states. I'm getting sick of these Arizonions bitching about the %'s given to NONresidents. HELL for years your freakin state has only given an "up to 10%" quota. At least UT has set 10% aside for NONresidnets. AZ never gave 10% set aside. We NONresidents have alway had to settle for up to 10% of the tags. Which bt the way, never made it up to 10%. NOT only that, we had to compete with the residnet for the "up to 10% cap".

I agree, AZ brought this on themselves!!!! Don't knock UT and NV, at least they always set 10% aside for a NONresident pool.

Karma is coming back to get AZ. "pay backs are a #####". I prey I can draw my elk (8points) and deer (7 points) this year as so I don't have to bother with putting in AZ anymore, especially if they plan on raising fees 400%. BUT beware, Karma is going to get them again if they start fighting this issue anyfurther.
 
RE: The bigger picture

I am also a non-resident that has donated my bonus point dollars over a long period and hope to draw soon because I will never put in again dont care how good of hunting it can be.
JUST NOT WORTH IT TO ME ANYMORE I would drop out now but have invested way to much money into the system and would still like to draw just once in my life and I promise to never put in again.Bottom line I think I will get out priced before I can draw any tags so I and alot of others will be out all of the money we have invested. I am not for USO by any means but these new price rumors and all the bitching about this and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth makes me not even want to hunt Arizona and leave it for all the residents of the state to get all the tags from this year on.
 
RE: The bigger picture

"... makes
me not even want to
hunt Arizona and leave it
for all the residents of
the state to get all
the tags from this year
on. "



AZ had the cheapest Elk tag in the west before the lawsuit.
 
RE: The bigger picture

Snowman22250, While I understand your upset with the folks in Az maybe I'll give you a little food for thought about just how things can be percieved. Why is it that in your state of Utah that there are quite a few hunts where no tags will be issued for nonresidents in 2004 & 2005 for some of the best units in the state on the limited entry and special hunts? Could it be that your own Game & Fish is giving preferential treatment to the residents!! This is a restriction on interstate commerce since you are prohibiting USO from making a living by not allowing a nonresident to hunt in these units? Keep barking about how we are tossing around all this bad KARMA but be careful because rumour has it a little of it may be headed your way as well. We don't like what's going on any more than you do because it's going to hurt our wallets as well! It's not the nonresident's we have an issue with it's companies like USO! I have nothing against your fine state and how they regulate the drawings but understand if it's perception we're talking about at least we gave them some chance to draw a tag on all hunts and on some hunt's your state isn't giving them any opportunity! 10% set aside or not! By the letter of the law your not doing it either!

And that's how we got started on this little misadventure.....In the big picture!

I hope it doesn't happen to you guys. But the opportunity is clearly there if he decides to exploit it.
 
RE: The bigger picture

How cheap was that AZ tag before all this? I thought CO was cheap?
 
RE: The bigger picture

>I put in for big game
>in all the western states.
>I'm getting sick of these
>Arizonions bitching about the %'s
>given to NONresidents. HELL
>for years your freakin state
>has only given an "up
>to 10%" quota. At least
>UT has set 10% aside
>for NONresidnets. AZ never gave
>10% set aside. We NONresidents
>have alway had to settle
>for up to 10% of
>the tags. Which bt the
>way, never made it up
>to 10%. NOT only that,
>we had to compete with
>the residnet for the "up
>to 10% cap".
>
>I agree, AZ brought this on
>themselves!!!! Don't knock UT and
>NV, at least they always
>set 10% aside for a
>NONresident pool.
Snowman, After this new nonres abuse that your beloved UT has planned for next year they will be only setting aside 7.5% of the tags for nonres. The rest of the original 10% will go to mostly the residents at the SLC convention. They are no better than AZ as far as looking to the nonres to pay the bills and make any sacrifices to pay for habitiat.
 
RE: The bigger picture

If you call putting in year after year and Arizona keeping the license fee money for a bonus point is the cheapest state to hunt well I dont agree. Many non-residents feel the same way as I do that when you do finally draw a once in a lifetime tag you would have to add all the bonus points up after letting them keep your money year after year. Someburro multiply 10 to 16 years and then the tag price on top of this and tell me it is the cheapest place to hunt. Other western states except Nevada only charge an application fee.What I am trying to say is most people just dont draw until 8 plus years and that is archery elk now add up all the points it takes and fees plus now the license fee to hunt.My figures show it still takes more money to draw Arizona if you add all the years it takes to get points. Lets see 795.00 for Utan non-resident elk if you draw.If not its just a 5.00 application fee and you get a bonus point. Arizona 115.50 just to put in every year to get a bonus point multiply this by 8-10 years for archery elk now add the elk license fee for the year you draw and tell me it is the cheapest state to hunt.GET THE PICTURE I still think residents should get alot more tags than non-residents do.To late USO and people who follow the trend will make hunting a thing of the past for the do-it-yourself hunter.
It is just to bad that hunting is going in this direction.It will take some serious money to hunt anywhere in the UNITED STATES in the very near future because alot of rich guys will just keep paying the high fees and this will eliminate the average guy but still the game departments will still make the money they need.That is what USO wants is the average guy to be eliminated out of even putting in for any state. Uso wants the do-it-yourself type hunter out of the picture and I think his plan is working give it another 10 years and see what his plans have done for the average type hunter.
 
RE: The bigger picture

3 cheers for uso! most all the states that only give non residents 10% of the tags are a joke and should be sued. especially since most of the land is federally owned
 
RE: The bigger picture

Hope you can afford the tags after the lawsuit. Never mind the cost entailed by each state to manage the forest and animals within it.
 
RE: The bigger picture

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-05 AT 08:33PM (MST)[p]If ya don't like it, go somewhere else. Is someone FORCING you to send money to AZ? Ya Little crying b**ches.

BTW, the little cry baby that started this thread needs to learn how to read. No where does it say your stinking elk tag is going to cost $3,200.
 
RE: The bigger picture

Well said Sombrerro
If anybody who thinks that Arizona will be charging 3200.00 for a Elk tag need to wake up and stop reading Rumers
Go to the Arizona Game And Fish websight and read about it ( if you can)
The increase is going to be spread over 10 years.
And nobody said you have to put in for the premium hunts IE early bull tag
The standard rifle and archery hunts are cheaper.
Boys When you realize USO screwed it up for all of us in all States
All stated are talking about fee increases and premium hunt prices
The worst thing is USO is laughing all the way to the bank.
I hate those b**tards.
I hope senater Reed bill passes that will put a dent back into USO.

Warbird
 
RE: The bigger picture

I am not even from AZ. But my oh my oh my........You guy's are whining like you think that AZ owes these tags to you. Who are you? If you don't like it, buy a tag from your own state, it'll save ya money!!!!!!!
 
RE: The bigger picture

Someburro

#1 I never said when the tags would be $3200 but said I had read that they will be $3200 and it will happen!!!

#2 I also never said it was Arizona trying to screw non-res infact I do not blame Arizona at all I blame Uso outfitters

#3 I feel as a American I do have the rite to hunt Arizona or any other state for that matter and I feel it should be affordable to do so and $3200 is not fair

#4 I wrote this post to get some answers and some peoples Ideas about the hole deal is that not what this web page is for

#5 I know a lot of Utah hunters that are not really happy about those banquet tags (here in Utah) infact I think most are not happy about it


Call me a Cry baby I guess I am in some way about this but tell me would you not be pissed if after 8 years of paying $100plus dollers each year just to apply for a tag and find out this is going to happen???

Also it is kinda sad we are all fighting amongest areselfs it just hurts hunting as a hole just like when a muzz hunter is upset with a rifle hunter or a archery hunter pissed at a muzz hunter

So just like one black man said CANT WE ALL GET ALONG!!

UThunting
Clynt l Citte
Willard Utah
 
RE: The bigger picture

Clynt wake up and smell the coffee good hunting will always be a rich mans sport. Find a new hobbie or do some more shady deals.
 
RE: The bigger picture

USO is in the process of taking away Utah's right to allocate their tags as they see fit also. So, when you get shut out of hunting in your own state, you'll know how we feel.
 
RE: The bigger picture

BLast you complain about $20.00 doe tag so I guess they just priced you out. LOL
 
RE: The bigger picture

Blast

Where in the HELL have you been I thought you was dead well hell I hope you injoy all the hunting if it gets left to all the rich people like you... did you end up putting in for a elk tag in utah ???

Burro

I do not blame you I see your point as most of us do it would and probably will SUCK BIG TIME truely I feel for you and others in Arizona

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Ut
 
RE: The bigger picture

We in Utah are lucky. USO doesnt' have a chance sueing UT. Why you ask, I am proud to admit Ut has too many corrupt people working in politics and "non-profit big game organizations" I won't mention any names, but you all read threads every week about them on MM.

Too many pockets getting lined, too many "upper" people going on fully paid hunting trips, etc,etc.

I got news for you. You wont' see USO make any headway in UT. The problem with AZ, the F&G thought it was "the all mighty". NOw look.

I have a solution!!!
ALL states lock down there borders, YOU MUST NOW BE A RESIDENT TO HUNT IN YOUR RESIDING STATE. NO NON-RESIDENTS IN ALL WESTERN STATES!!

I TOO AM SICK OF ALL THE FEES I PAY IN AZ and NV JUST TO APPLY FOR POINTS EVERY YEAR.

YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON THE NAIL--BY THE TIME I DRAW FOR MY FIRST DEER(7points) and FIRST ELK(8points)--WELL, IT HAS ALREADY TO DATE COST ME OVER $1,000 just in applying, let alone when I finally draw a deer and elk, which may still be years to come, look then at what it will eventually cost me. I could probably have bought a limited entry landowner tag in UT, NV, or NM by the time that all happens.

I'm starting to see it from the ARIZIONIONS side of view. NO MORE F__ING NON-RESIDENTS ALLOWED!!!!!!

DAMMMMMMMMM< anyone have some high blood pressure medication, i think i might need some.

Snowman
 
RE: The bigger picture

Sorry deerlove to disappoint you but I dont hunt for does, poach, trespass if you know what I mean. I know you do. Still selling cell phones? I am sure money is no problem for you.
 
RE: The bigger picture

WOW

Thats a little harsh aint it 3 posts and you are already going to far he was just kidding with you take a joke you got to admit you are a very frugal person and russ is the tight one he just wanted to kid with you a little

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
willard Ut
 
RE: The bigger picture

Utah needs to start charging 115.00 each year to non-residents for bonus points and start charging less for the non-resident license fees when they do draw. Bottom line the bonus point fees will make a hell of alot more money from non-residents every year than just a 5.00 bonus point fee. Now if you draw It would be 115.00 plus the license fee of say 400.00. for a total of 515.00. When it takes 10--20 years to draw an elk tag like Arizona for non-resident add it up. Dont tell me Arizona is not charging enough like other states Arizona has alot of my money now and I have not even hunted the state.I will keep putting in now to much money invested into Arizona but dont think for one minute you have not made big money off of me and I have not put a boot track in your state.
 
RE: The bigger picture

You guys, everyone is discussing an emotional issue and trying to prove their emotional point with financial figures. I think that whatever happens in all western states will still leave alot of sportsmen upset. I for one have lived in AZ for seven years and have never drawn Elk,antelope,sheep, or any other tag other than 2 November season coues deer. I dont like that as a family with 2 sons applying that this past 2004 we had ZERO tags but that is the system we as residents live with. The big picture really is SUPPLY (meaning allotment of tags) and DEMAND which we know is high because we are all bitching about it. Someone mentioned MONEY is behind all of this and that is true. It is our own Free enterprise system that is helping this process along so as an ECONOMIC force (all of us sportspeople) we need to band together and not keep lashing out at each other or someone else will come up with another system for us without our input.......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
RE: The bigger picture

VERY WELL SAID I TOTTALY AGREE

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Ut
 
RE: The bigger picture

Yes,

I agree Allen. We do need to ban together before PETA, or some other "tree-hugger" organization sees an opportunity to sneek in while we are all fighting over this sensitive issue.

Well put!! The first real reasoning on this thread.

PS-I need a guide when I finally draw a tag. In case you didn't notice, I'm "brown-nosing" you!! NO, LOL, you really have a great point.

Rob Snow
 
RE: The bigger picture

Sometimes I get to caught up in what is posted on MM and all the bashing of this state and that state. All hunters do need to unite and be as one or the antis and other non-hunting type groups will be glad to take over. I will not reply to anymore posts concerning this state and that state on prices or tag numbers non-residents get. I am tired of reading about USO also on this site it seems that every time USO is listed it get MM members fighting over issues that are hurting our heritage.Thanks Allen for listing the most important things that need to take place before we all lose our hunting rights.
 
RE: The bigger picture

Amen Brothers. We are all sportsmen first.

Cheers
Roadtrip
 
I think the state just wants in on the big money that everybody else is making on their comodity...time's they are a changin...
 
Here's a math lesson for all the cry babies, free of charge.

Bonus Point Species - (5)
Sheep
Deer
Elk
Antelope
Buffalo

1 hunting license = $113.00 per year

$113 divided by 5 = $22.60

$22.60 per bonus point per year.

Now, if you are an archery hunter, you can come and hunt the Kaibab / Strip or some very good desert muleys, every year OVER THE COUNTER with the same license (+archery deer tag) you used to apply for the tags.
 
We cry babies need to add $10 per species every year on top of your $22. As so it's $32 per species.

Math lesson free of charge Someburro

Snowman
 
crying-baby.jpg


crying_baby.jpg


1580620116.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


ooe006.jpg


Baby_Crying.jpg
 
Yeah, the feds will want in on this gamepretty quickly too.

$100 BLM Lands hunting permit
$250 Federal Forest hunting permit
$100 Mandatory federal conservation big game stamps on license


Maybe as Sen Reid's bill passes before congress someone will think...geez, do we have a luxury tax for tags yet?
 
I agree,

And not to mention what you have to go through to get licensed, insured and "PERMITTED".

You have to know someone to get permitted for UT National Forest permits.!! NO JOKE!!

It's only a matter of time before it becomes a luxury and only the super rich will get the opportunity to hunt the big ones.

snowman
 

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