700 Cow elk permits on MT Dutton?
- Thread starter UGAhunter
- Start date
W
WARBIRDUM
Guest
I hope all 700 permit holders dont try and scout the Dutton during the archery elk hunt. I know some guys would be very upset.Is that true 700 permits for cows?
B
bobcatbess
Guest
I'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN ON ANOTHER LE UNIT!!!
A UNIT THAT USED TO HOLD SEVERAL 350"+ BULLS!!!
ONCE THEY SHOT THE COWS OUT THEY WORKED THE BULLS OVER,EVEN HAD A BULL DEPERDATION HUNT THIS LAST WINTER!!!
WHAT A FRICKEN JOKE!!!
THEY FIRST SAY:WE'VE GOT TOO MANY COWS SO LETS SHOOT EM OUT!!!
THEN THEY SAY:WE'VE GOT TOO MANY BULLS FOR THE FEW COWS LEFT SO LETS SHOOT EM OUT!!!
HELL YA I'M AGGITATED!!!
HOPEFULLY THEY WON'T SHOOT DUTTON OUT,I DON'T HUNT THERE BUT I'D STILL HATE TO SEE ANOTHER LE UNIT SHOT OUT DUE TO PISS POOR MANAGEMENT!!!
DON'T THINK IT CAN'T HAPPEN CAUSE IT CAN!!!
THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING WHERE IT WILL ALL END???
A UNIT THAT USED TO HOLD SEVERAL 350"+ BULLS!!!
ONCE THEY SHOT THE COWS OUT THEY WORKED THE BULLS OVER,EVEN HAD A BULL DEPERDATION HUNT THIS LAST WINTER!!!
WHAT A FRICKEN JOKE!!!
THEY FIRST SAY:WE'VE GOT TOO MANY COWS SO LETS SHOOT EM OUT!!!
THEN THEY SAY:WE'VE GOT TOO MANY BULLS FOR THE FEW COWS LEFT SO LETS SHOOT EM OUT!!!
HELL YA I'M AGGITATED!!!
HOPEFULLY THEY WON'T SHOOT DUTTON OUT,I DON'T HUNT THERE BUT I'D STILL HATE TO SEE ANOTHER LE UNIT SHOT OUT DUE TO PISS POOR MANAGEMENT!!!
DON'T THINK IT CAN'T HAPPEN CAUSE IT CAN!!!
THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING WHERE IT WILL ALL END???
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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- 10,431
If you draw one of the 700 cow tags you could bow hunt it if you have a bow-deer tag and are hunting the cow within the cow unit boundaries.
N
NTHERUT
Guest
That is sick and wrong if the DWR has done that. Mt Dutton is one of the top elk units in the state right now and now they are going to remove over half the elk for I don't know what reason. They must have taken there numbers again in the winter, I hope they counted for the elk of the Boulders, Beaver, Monroe, Pauns and Panguitch Lake cause alot of those elk winter in the Mt. Dutton area. Unbelievable, 700 cow tags and close to 100 bull tags. If all hunters are successful then that would take out over 50 % of the numbers of elk they figure are on Mt Dutton. Are these elk starving to death or what? I don't think so.
The DWR never seems to amaze me.
The DWR never seems to amaze me.
fin little
Active Member
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- 762
They always have alot of cow tags on the Dutton. I dont think its ever been that high. Seems like around 300 usually. It does winter alot of elk from other units and for the most part they are late season hunts. I was told the reason for so many permits is because of low success numbers. Most folks wont venture to far from the road for a cow and alot of the unit is roadless. 700 permits may only mean 200 cows killed. I hope they know what thier doing. They have been managing Dutton for years with relative high numbers of bull and cow tags and the place looks great, in my opinion.
K
ktc
Guest
Let me see if I have this right.
The opportunity boobs say the bull to cow ratios are too high, 1 to 1. Elk are dying of old age and poor herd management with to many bulls to cows.
The DWR issues 700 cow tags making the bull to cow ratio even higher.
So what do they do with the excess bulls? I suppose we kill them because there is more damn bulls than cows and jr. and his dad with 5 points wants a bull!
I hear the elk herd cannot be ruined in one year, well, they are working their hardest at it.
The opportunity boobs say the bull to cow ratios are too high, 1 to 1. Elk are dying of old age and poor herd management with to many bulls to cows.
The DWR issues 700 cow tags making the bull to cow ratio even higher.
So what do they do with the excess bulls? I suppose we kill them because there is more damn bulls than cows and jr. and his dad with 5 points wants a bull!
I hear the elk herd cannot be ruined in one year, well, they are working their hardest at it.
cabinfever
Very Active Member
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I'm by all means not defending the DWR, however, these cow hunts are low percentage on sucess. Basicly. if you want to kill 200 cows you have to sell 700 permits. I assure you, they dont want to kill 700 cows on this unit. The problem is, a hard winter could force the elk into areas that are more accessible to hunters, thus producing a higher sucess rate than wanted.
MIke
MIke
B
bobcatbess
Guest
fin little
I DON'T KNOW WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT LOW SUCCESS NUMBERS BUT IT MUST OF BEEN THE DWR!!!
WHEN THEY STARTED THE 'COWKILLER' SLAUGHTERS OUT HERE ON THE SOUTH SLOPE I'D PUT MONEY ON THE TABLE THAT SAYS THERE WAS AT LEAST 1-1/2 COWS KILLED PER PERMIT!!!
FLOCK SHOOTING GALORE!!!
I'VE NEVER SEEN SO MANY WASTED ANIMALS OTHER THAN THE BOOK CLIFFS WHEN IT WAS 3 POINT OR BETTER,DEAD 2 POINTS LAYING EVERYWHERE!!!
MAYBE ITS DIFFERENT ON THE DUTTON???
ANYBODY EVER THINK ABOUT THE STRESS ON A HERD WHILE THEY ARE PACKING CALVES SEVERAL MONTHS ALONG???
PRESSURING GAME HERDS SEVERAL MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR???
I COULD GO ON & ON BUT I WON'T!!!
I'VE SEEN ALOT OF THINGS HAPPEN THAT SHOULDN'T OF,I SEEN A HUNTER KNOCK 3 COWS DOWN ONCE,ME & THAT OLE BOY HAD A LITTLE TALK,HE TOLD ME TO MIND MY OWN BUSINESS,HE HAD IT COVERED WITH FAMILY TAGS,TOO BAD I WASN'T A WARDEN THAT DAY!!!
WHO KNOWS HOW MANY HE WOUNDED SHOOTING INTO A FLOCK LIKE THAT???
I'VE SEEN UNITS COMPLETELY DESTROYED DUE TO COWKILLER HUNTS & GREED!!!
THE ONLY bobcat NOT PLEASED WITH THE MANAGEMENT OF ELK!!!
I DON'T KNOW WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT LOW SUCCESS NUMBERS BUT IT MUST OF BEEN THE DWR!!!
WHEN THEY STARTED THE 'COWKILLER' SLAUGHTERS OUT HERE ON THE SOUTH SLOPE I'D PUT MONEY ON THE TABLE THAT SAYS THERE WAS AT LEAST 1-1/2 COWS KILLED PER PERMIT!!!
FLOCK SHOOTING GALORE!!!
I'VE NEVER SEEN SO MANY WASTED ANIMALS OTHER THAN THE BOOK CLIFFS WHEN IT WAS 3 POINT OR BETTER,DEAD 2 POINTS LAYING EVERYWHERE!!!
MAYBE ITS DIFFERENT ON THE DUTTON???
ANYBODY EVER THINK ABOUT THE STRESS ON A HERD WHILE THEY ARE PACKING CALVES SEVERAL MONTHS ALONG???
PRESSURING GAME HERDS SEVERAL MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR???
I COULD GO ON & ON BUT I WON'T!!!
I'VE SEEN ALOT OF THINGS HAPPEN THAT SHOULDN'T OF,I SEEN A HUNTER KNOCK 3 COWS DOWN ONCE,ME & THAT OLE BOY HAD A LITTLE TALK,HE TOLD ME TO MIND MY OWN BUSINESS,HE HAD IT COVERED WITH FAMILY TAGS,TOO BAD I WASN'T A WARDEN THAT DAY!!!
WHO KNOWS HOW MANY HE WOUNDED SHOOTING INTO A FLOCK LIKE THAT???
I'VE SEEN UNITS COMPLETELY DESTROYED DUE TO COWKILLER HUNTS & GREED!!!
THE ONLY bobcat NOT PLEASED WITH THE MANAGEMENT OF ELK!!!
fin little
Active Member
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- 762
Yes bobcat it's different on the Dutton. My guess is the reason for 700 tags is last year. If anyone will research the numbers I will bet that very few cows were killed last fall. Early and deep snows made the elk nearly impossible to get too. Last year was as deep of snow as we get that early and the elk were by no means vulnerable. You would have to visit the unit to understand. I knew several people with tags and it was a tough tag to fill. If thier giving tags on last years hunter success then that explains the 700 permits. I dont know if Utah allocates tags that way . I know Arizona does.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
fin
I DON'T KNOW EITHER???
BUT LETS SAY IT IS HOW THEY ARE DOING IT!!!
THIS NEXT COW HUNT COULD BE A COMPLETE FLOP FROM LAST FALLS HUNT!!!
LETS SAY THE WEATHER IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND 625 COWS ARE KILLED!!!
CAN THE UNIT TAKE THE HIT???
ARE YOU KILLING COWS FROM OTHER UNITS???
I'M NOT TRYING TO SOUND NEGATIVE,I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW WHAT I'VE SEEN HAPPEN WITH MY OWN EYES!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU'VE SEEN IT ALL,NO YOU HAVEN'T,YOU WILL SEE NEW AMAZING TACTICS!!!
I DON'T KNOW EITHER???
BUT LETS SAY IT IS HOW THEY ARE DOING IT!!!
THIS NEXT COW HUNT COULD BE A COMPLETE FLOP FROM LAST FALLS HUNT!!!
LETS SAY THE WEATHER IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND 625 COWS ARE KILLED!!!
CAN THE UNIT TAKE THE HIT???
ARE YOU KILLING COWS FROM OTHER UNITS???
I'M NOT TRYING TO SOUND NEGATIVE,I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW WHAT I'VE SEEN HAPPEN WITH MY OWN EYES!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU'VE SEEN IT ALL,NO YOU HAVEN'T,YOU WILL SEE NEW AMAZING TACTICS!!!
cabinfever
Very Active Member
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I have hunted indian peaks for cows on several ocassions and mostly we have been sucessful, however, that is after some seriously long days and lots of miles and several trips out. I promise you most guys aren't sucessful. These elk have been chased around so much that by november they seek out very remote places. Mt Dutton has some very remote areas.
The Fishlake was a fiasco because they allowed for a cow permit for an additional $20 for everyone who purchased a spike permit. The majority of the cows killed were killed in October by spike hunters. I hunted cows that November and every guy I talked to said there were no cows left to kill because they had been slaughtered in October by the spike hunters. That was my accessment as well. By the way, even the muzzy deer hunters who held a tag for the November season were allowed to take there cow during the September muzzy season if they wanted. Who cares about elk anyway I'd like to see the dwr doing something about our deer problem.
Mike
Mike
The Fishlake was a fiasco because they allowed for a cow permit for an additional $20 for everyone who purchased a spike permit. The majority of the cows killed were killed in October by spike hunters. I hunted cows that November and every guy I talked to said there were no cows left to kill because they had been slaughtered in October by the spike hunters. That was my accessment as well. By the way, even the muzzy deer hunters who held a tag for the November season were allowed to take there cow during the September muzzy season if they wanted. Who cares about elk anyway I'd like to see the dwr doing something about our deer problem.
Mike
Mike
B
bobcatbess
Guest
cabinfever
THINK ABOUT IT!!!
THE DWR HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE DEER HERD FOR SEVERAL DECADES NOW!!!
I'M NOT BLAMING THE DWR TOTALLY BUT YOU OUGHT TO KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING!!!
IT WOULD BE SAD TO SEE THE SAME THING HAPPEN TO THE LE ELK UNITS EVEN THOUGH I LIKE MULE DEER ALOT MORE THAN THEM STINKY BULLS!!!
IT WOULD BE EVEN SADDER TO SEE BOTH QUALITY DEER & ELK HERDS WIPED OUT!!!
I SAY LETS KEEP THE QUALITY WHILE WE CAN,AH,BUT THE OPPORTUNISTS WANT THERE WAYS!!!
KIND OF REMINDS ME OF THESE JOKERS THAT WANT THE WOLVES REINTRODUCED,THEY WANT,WANT,WANT,BUT THEY WON'T PUT 10 CENTS INTO IT!!!
THE OPPORTUNISTS WERE ABSOLUTELY QUIET AND NEVER PUT ANYTHING INTO THE LE UNITS,AS SOON AS THE BULLS COME ON THEY WANT THE GRAVY!!!
I GUESS ALOT OF THEM CAN'T STAND TO SEE A FEW BULLS SURVIVE UTARDS 6 MONTHS OF STEADY & OVERLAPPED HUNTING!!!
THE ONLY bobcat NOT LIKING THE EXTENDED HUNTING PRESSURE PUT ON OUR HERDS DUE TO NOVEMBER,DECEMBER & SOMETIMES JANUARY COWKILLER HUNTS!!!
THINK ABOUT IT!!!
THE DWR HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE DEER HERD FOR SEVERAL DECADES NOW!!!
I'M NOT BLAMING THE DWR TOTALLY BUT YOU OUGHT TO KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING!!!
IT WOULD BE SAD TO SEE THE SAME THING HAPPEN TO THE LE ELK UNITS EVEN THOUGH I LIKE MULE DEER ALOT MORE THAN THEM STINKY BULLS!!!
IT WOULD BE EVEN SADDER TO SEE BOTH QUALITY DEER & ELK HERDS WIPED OUT!!!
I SAY LETS KEEP THE QUALITY WHILE WE CAN,AH,BUT THE OPPORTUNISTS WANT THERE WAYS!!!
KIND OF REMINDS ME OF THESE JOKERS THAT WANT THE WOLVES REINTRODUCED,THEY WANT,WANT,WANT,BUT THEY WON'T PUT 10 CENTS INTO IT!!!
THE OPPORTUNISTS WERE ABSOLUTELY QUIET AND NEVER PUT ANYTHING INTO THE LE UNITS,AS SOON AS THE BULLS COME ON THEY WANT THE GRAVY!!!
I GUESS ALOT OF THEM CAN'T STAND TO SEE A FEW BULLS SURVIVE UTARDS 6 MONTHS OF STEADY & OVERLAPPED HUNTING!!!
THE ONLY bobcat NOT LIKING THE EXTENDED HUNTING PRESSURE PUT ON OUR HERDS DUE TO NOVEMBER,DECEMBER & SOMETIMES JANUARY COWKILLER HUNTS!!!
cabinfever
Very Active Member
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- 2,382
Bobcat
First of all, I'm not disagreeing with you. I have 7 points for Elk and I'm not at all happy with the new age objective.I've had to face the fact that the quality probably wont be as good by the time I draw. However, Utah DWR listened to the majority of sportmans here in Utah, and thus decreased age objectives so they could justify the increase in tag numbers. Consequently, guys like us are the minority. As far as the cow tags go, I was just stating the facts. Issue 700 tags in November and you will harvest about 200 cows. I'm not opposed to some cows being killed, because it allows more feed for the deer. I am oposed to cow hunts in sept and oct with a rifle and muzzy. I sent you a PM as well.
Best Mike
First of all, I'm not disagreeing with you. I have 7 points for Elk and I'm not at all happy with the new age objective.I've had to face the fact that the quality probably wont be as good by the time I draw. However, Utah DWR listened to the majority of sportmans here in Utah, and thus decreased age objectives so they could justify the increase in tag numbers. Consequently, guys like us are the minority. As far as the cow tags go, I was just stating the facts. Issue 700 tags in November and you will harvest about 200 cows. I'm not opposed to some cows being killed, because it allows more feed for the deer. I am oposed to cow hunts in sept and oct with a rifle and muzzy. I sent you a PM as well.
Best Mike
quickdrawkinker
Active Member
- Messages
- 637
I went to a RAC meeting in Cedar City last month and the topic was antlerless permits. The DWR passed around all the herd numbers, trends, and objectives and I just had to sit back in a total state of confusion. Can somebody please explain to me why when the herds are only at around 40% of the desired objective on most units that they need to issue, for instance 700 cow tags??? It makes no sense to me, especially on a year like this when there is going to be a surplus of food.
Cow tags turned me off big time after the FishLake incident a few years ago when the DWR decided to offer a cow tag with every spike tag that was sold on top of the original 500 cow tags that were sold.......neeless to say it will still be several more years before that unit recovers. How can you go from having too many elk on a unit one year to having to shut the unit down for the next 5 or 6 so it can recover.....I just don't get it.
Cow tags turned me off big time after the FishLake incident a few years ago when the DWR decided to offer a cow tag with every spike tag that was sold on top of the original 500 cow tags that were sold.......neeless to say it will still be several more years before that unit recovers. How can you go from having too many elk on a unit one year to having to shut the unit down for the next 5 or 6 so it can recover.....I just don't get it.
LAST EDITED ON May-25-05 AT 10:48AM (MST)[p]700 cow tag does seem a bit excessive. However, as Finlittle points out, a low harvest success is likely to blame. Low hunter success is due to the fact that a large percentage of the Dutton is roadless. The elk have seemed to figure out that they only need to get a short distance from roads to escape hunter pressure. A lot of the Dutton is rough country. Few people will venture into verticle ground in quest of a cow. I doubt 700 cow tags will amount to any more than 200 cows harvested. I'm also wondering what would happen if all the correct conditions lined up and the elk were forced into more vulnerable areas of the unit. I don't know for sure, but it's likely not a problem. It seems that in years past, as whether conditions that would normally leave animals vulnerable prevailed, the Dutton elk moved higher and farther out of reach of the average hunter. Without checking, I assume that the 700 tags will be scattered over three seasons, as usual. If that's the case, hunters with the limited trophy bull tags are going to have to get in and hunt hard to score on a quality bull. There?s nothing worse that waiting years for the tag of a lifetime, and find you have to share the mountain with hundreds of lookie Lous? ...
