WINTER RANGE SNOW

[LoneWati]

Starting to get worried with all the snow dumping on the Winter Ranges here in Colorado. Gunnison got 24" and next week looks like snow 6 out of 8 days. Deer are going to start to get on the roadways in numbers. West Elks got close to 50" which is fine up that high but if the snow and cold sets in we could be in for another high die off down low, especially if the sage gets covered up and can't be reached.What is everyone else seeing on the ground?

 

[muleymaddness]

I think it's definitely time to start paying attention to this. Nothing you can do really other than monitor the situation and hope for the best. I know the Gunnison Basin is getting hammered. BUT - I haven't watched it close enough for long enough to know just how bad it is. It does however seem worse than prior years. Guess we'll see.

 

[LoneWati]

Just looked at a photo taken today near Woods Landing, Wyo of a Doe Mule Deer with no Ears. Froze off.

 

[elks96]

Just spent a day in unit 11 and 22. Snow depth is normal, but it was cold. Deer were healthy and the snow on the ground was light and fluffy. So far things look good. However tonight and tomorrow we are supposed to get a warm spell with more snow! I am afraid that this will totally crust up the snow and cause so,e major issues.

Around rifle the snow is normal winter is normal, I still think the deer are very healthy since they had such an easy early winter. It will take a pretty bad smack of snow and cold to significantly hurt the animals!

 

[LoneWati]

Photo's courtesy of Kirby Hornbeck near Woods Landing, Wyo

 

[LoneWati]

Photo courtesy of Kirby Hornbeck near Woods Landing,Wyo. It gets a little warmer when it snows and looks to snow all week. Will be interesting how things look in a week.Cold will be coming and hope it doesn't crust over the snow but I am pretty sure it will be tough from here on out.

 

[elks96]

Yeah! Luckily it has not been quiet as cold in CO! We are supposed to hit close to 60. Baggs supposed to be in the mid 40s. Like you mention a crust could be killer. Hopefully the warm snap melts off all the south slopes!

 

[LoneWati]

>Yeah! Luckily it has not been
>quiet as cold in CO!
>We are supposed to hit
>close to 60. Baggs supposed
>to be in the mid
>40s. Like you mention a
>crust could be killer. Hopefully
>the warm snap melts off
>all the south slopes!


That is a heat wave in that part of the country!!! My first ever deer hunt was in that country 37 years ago. Camped in Wyo but hunted Slater, Co Area. Froze my tail off!!
Gunnison was -36.9 for a low yesterday with a high of 1.7 above. Right now is their high temp at 16.2 for today as it is snowing and warming up.Expecting about a foot or so total this week with next Sat being the only day above freezing @33 but I doubt it as cold sets in that darn valley and is hard to push out.Keep us posted Elks96

 

[El Gringo]

Snow depths and temps not terrible in the Uncompaghre Valley. The deer are looking healthy and seem to be doing fine. Have seen large numbers of Elk finally drop down into the valley after this last big snow.

 

[Waygoner]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-17 AT 09:14AM (MST)[p]Gunnison basin is getting pounded. I've got 36" on the level at my house and it's supposed to snow all week. We did hit -30 on Saturday, but the temps have not been bad. I've heard it's unlikely the CPW will ever try to feed the animals like they did in 07/08. Schools closed today - 1st time in at least 40 years we've had a snow day.

 

[LoneWati]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-17 AT 04:54PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-17
>AT 09:14?AM (MST)
>
>Gunnison basin is getting pounded.
>I've got 36" on the
>level at my house and
>it's supposed to snow all
>week. We did hit
>-30 on Saturday, but the
>temps have not been bad.
> I've heard it's unlikely
>the CPW will ever try
>to feed the animals like
>they did in 07/08.
>Schools closed today - 1st
>time in at least 40
>years we've had a snow
>day.

You guys are not getting soft over there are you? Bet Palisades is full today and the beer is flowing!! Thanks for the updates!!I did hear that it was 1970 the last time school was cancelled due to Weather!!

 

[LoneWati]

Not looking real good. Gunnisaon area received some Rain on top of the snow I believe Sunday night and then more snow this week. Sage is completely covered. Was told that there has never been this much snow in Gunnison this time of year. Hwy 50 through town is a one way each way with 10-12 foot windrow in the middle. Elk and deer are on the roads. 5 new deer hit last night in a 12 mile stretch. 300 head of elk on a friends place West of town by the res and only 13 bulls. A 5 point being the biggest and 3 spikes. The rest raghorns.Has about 30 deer but the elk have them pushed back. Message today was no feed operation planned and no meetings scheduled, will let you know when or if things change (from the DOW)

 

[Elkduds]

NFG. I remember what was revealed when the snow melted along 50 and 149 in spring 1978 and spring 1982.

 

[Tomichi]

Gunnison 01-12-16...we need to feed. Spent over an hour with Area Manager and area terrestrial bio. They only counted 54 and 66 weather has prevented classification counts in 55 551 67...I encouraged them to skip their chopper detailed counts...fix wing for distribution use rest of their resources on winter of 17 mortality study. They have enough collars on for data. Will we lose 30% of adult females to trigger feeding??? I say yes. They are watching closely. They are doing
necropsy's of all deer and elk they can. They want more if you find any.

Then talked to south west regional manager and texted her pictures of current conditions. Told her public is going to feed any way so send us a semi of the right pellets. Told her good luck prosecuting any one for illegal feeding I dont think a Gunnison Jury will convict.

I told the 20 some thing kids to start a go fund me and do it all them selves. Us old guys will write the commission and talk and talk and talk through the chain of command like always.. I am advising them to get the Denver news channel in here and social media this thing fast.
went to town for plow fuel and to the dump...18 head at the county dump..miles and miles of white snow in 67 NO SAGE these deer were eating house hold trash when I got there....sad got pictures..they are on the only plowed spot for miles.
Could write more and post pictures but want to write commission and directer and senior staff they are more important.
My third wire was covered the rain settled it. Getting crusty. Lots of wind. More snow coming...then with no sage it will get cold...as in Gunnison cold..90 inches in Crested Butte since the 2nd..
I wont apply here for many many years.

 

[cmbbulldog]

Thanks for the update Brad.... I think.

 

[Cohntr62]

WOW! The winter's still young. Hopefully, the problem is localized and not widespread.

 

[LoneWati]

>Gunnison 01-12-16...we need to feed.
> Spent over an hour
>with Area Manager and area
>terrestrial bio. They only counted
>54 and 66 weather
>has prevented classification counts in
>55 551 67...I encouraged them
>to skip their chopper detailed
>counts...fix wing for distribution use
>rest of their resources on
>winter of 17 mortality study.
>They have enough collars on
>for data. Will
>we lose 30% of adult
>females to trigger feeding???
>I say yes. They are
>watching closely. They are doing
>
>necropsy's of all deer
>and elk they can.
>They want more if you
>find any.
>
>Then talked to south west regional
>manager and texted her pictures
>of current conditions. Told her
>public is going to feed
>any way so send us
>a semi of the right
>pellets. Told her good luck
>prosecuting any one for illegal
>feeding I dont think a
>Gunnison Jury will convict.
>
>I told the 20 some thing
>kids to start a go
>fund me and do it
>all them selves.
>Us old guys will write
>the commission and talk and
>talk and talk through the
>chain of command like always..
>I am advising them to
>get the Denver news channel
>in here and social media
>this thing fast.
>went to town for plow fuel
>and to the dump...18 head
>at the county dump..miles and
>miles of white snow in
>67 NO SAGE these deer
>were eating house hold trash
>when I got there....sad got
>pictures..they are on the only
>plowed spot for miles.
>Could write more and post pictures
>but want to write commission
>and directer and senior staff
>they are more important.
>My third wire was covered the
>rain settled it. Getting
>crusty. Lots of wind.
>More snow coming...then with no
>sage it will get cold...as
>in Gunnison cold..90 inches in
>Crested Butte since the 2nd..
>
>I wont apply here for many
>many years.

To lose 30% adult females is huge as the Bucks are first to go and then the fawns and then the Does. Add the health of the Does fawns this Spring if they don't abort. Disaterous to say the least but they need to get on this and quit screwing around. Wasted a week already!! Hoping for the best as I know the Local community is a force to reckon with and there voices will be heard. We should not have to learn the same lessons every 9 years!

 

[Elkduds]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-17 AT 10:19PM (MST)[p]Go Fund Me Site is active.
https://www.gofundme.com/save-gunnison-wildlife

Contributing now.

 

[LoneWati]

Thanks! Just contributed.Checked Connor on FB and we actually have 2 mutual friends. Shared the link!

 

[elks96]

I just added a little. Wish it was more but I see this battle taking place in other areas of the state as well!

 

[Squirrel]

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

Lone wati, what makes you say the bucks go first, then fawns, then does?? It is simply not true.

Kinda like real estate, location location location I've got bare ground showing, good food if they can get to it but after the unheard of January rain storm it could be protected by a bulletproof ice layer. Especially on flats where it pooled. Steep hills have bare ground but a lot less food and the hwy cuts and RR cuts are where they are gonna end up and getting killed wholesale. They are congregating there already, eagles are smiling.

So far it's been an exceptionally good winter but the precursors are there to get really bad if the cards fall wrong.

Good luck getting the check cashers to become check writers there tomichi... they will dither until it no longer matters then wring their hands and say they did all they could. (and increase tag numbers so they have less winter kill in future years) Don't want to waste all that "opportunity"...

 

[LoneWati]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-17 AT 12:32PM (MST)[p]>

>My current situation precludes me from
>caring about your opinion but
>go ahead and give voice
>to it anyway...
>
>Lone wati, what makes you say
>the bucks go first, then
>fawns, then does?? It
>is simply not true.
>

Do some research before you make a blanket statement that it is not true.If you accuse me of a false statement or a non truth, then please provide your backup.Thanks.

 

[2_Point]

Post that link on the mule deer hunting forum and the general hunting forum. It is buried in this thread.

 

[Elkduds]

After I donated, I posted the situation and the link on OYOA, WapitiTalk and Rokslide. Link reports $5K raised in 1 day, it will take more.

 

[Squirrel]

>LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-17
>AT 12:32?PM (MST)
>
>>

>>My current situation precludes me from
>>caring about your opinion but
>>go ahead and give voice
>>to it anyway...
>>
>>Lone wati, what makes you say
>>the bucks go first, then
>>fawns, then does?? It
>>is simply not true.
>>
>
>Do some research before you make
>a blanket statement that it
>is not true.If you accuse
>me of a false statement
>or a non truth, then
>please provide your backup.Thanks.

25 years of hiking 300- 600 miles every spring and looking over hundreds of carcasses each year (1000's in bad years)and taking note of virtually no mature bucks being the victim of winter range mortality in comparison to doe/fawn numbers in any given year, physically watching the fawns tip over by the hundreds while bucks are a few hundred yards away and quite fat and healthy. If they fall (and they seldom do) it is very late in exceptionally hard springs generally after they have shed. 2 point yearlings are the exception to this, they do take a pounding but are still after the fawns but before the does.

Go read up on the middle park buck mortality study and find me a year that mature buck mortality approaches 90+% as has been the case with fawns in quite a few study years, as far as I have found it is seldom over 40-50% even INCLUDIDNG LEAD POISONING IN THE FALL IN UNITS WITH ALMOST 10000 TAGS ISSUED.

I have sat there in those meetings when the same BS being shoveled by the same snot nosed college kids that couldn't find a dead deer carcass without a radio beacon collar spout their platitudes they learned at CU. One of those was named Andy btw.

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

 

[Waygoner]

I just donated too. I drove east on 50 this morning and saw deer and elk by the hundreds. The temps have been warm which I think is helping, but it could turn ugly very quickly. I don't expect the CPW will do anything to help, so kick in a few $$ if you can.

>LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-17
>AT 10:19?PM (MST)
>
>Go Fund Me Site is active.
>
>https://www.gofundme.com/save-gunnison-wildlife
>
>Contributing now.

 

[LoneWati]

-
Buckoe Ratio:
Mature bucks were some of th
e first animals to die during the 07
-
08 winter,
which was not unexpected. For many years, big game managers have discussed the ramifications
of ?stockpiling? mule deer bucks in areas prone to severe winters. The breeding period for mule
deer in the Gunni
son Basin typically peaks during mid to late November and extends into early
December. Bucks exert a tremendous amount of energy tending does and competing with rival
males during the rut, and many enter winter in a weakened condition. Mule deer bucks us
e up
precious fat reserves and often sustain injuries during the breeding season which has obvious
survival implications. Dominant bucks in their prime (ie. those with the largest antlers and body
size) often enter the winter in the poorest condition and
are much more likely to succumb to the
rigors of the season.
There is a direct correlation between the cumulative ?cost? of the rut and the
number of males maintained in a population. Sportsmen should be mindful of the long
-
term
impacts severe winters have
on mule deer populations managed for high buck:doe ratios.

Taken from the Winter Mortality study of the 07-08 Gunnison area Winter Data analysis.I was there in May that Spring and could see 30 plus deer without looking hard. Most were Does and Fawns. I went into a drainage that had woody cover and found all Bucks(mature) with no Does or Fawns.Buck to Doe ratios from before the Winter were 48-100 and after were 25-100. Now what we don't know is how many of those Bucks were Mature that made up the buck to doe ratios. But what I found out from people on the ground that were there is that the big mature bucks showed up late to the feeding sites if they made it at all and never got up and died right there. The bucks I found did not make it to the one of the feeding areas. I did hunt that fall in the unit and saw 48 Does and fawns combined. Mostly does but I did not count how many of each. I saw 4 mature bucks . All in the 8 days I was there. Small 4x4's and a 5x6. Later in the Summer I was there and only saw a dozen Does with a couple fawns mixed in and no bucks at all, but I was there for a short time and the Mature bucks would of been together most likely farther up. I will look at your area when I get a chance to up in Middle Park.

 

[DidIDraw]

I just donated. Hope it helps to save some deer.

 

[elkassassin]

We've got Quite a bit of Snow here this year!

More than in many Years!













[font color="blue"]It Was them Damn Lake Trout that took them Elk
out![/font]

 

[BOHNTR]

What exactly are they feeding them? Many deer have died with a belly full of alfalfa pellets.....just saying.

Sometimes we 'think' we're doing the right thing and it makes us feel better.......when in reality, Mother Nature is in full control and knows what she's doing.

Wish they made bitterbrush pellets.

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[kickerbuck]

>What exactly are they feeding them?
> Many deer have died
>with a belly full of
>alfalfa pellets.....just saying.
>
>Sometimes we 'think' we're doing the
>right thing and it makes
>us feel better.......when in reality,
>Mother Nature is in full
>control and knows what she's
>doing.
>
>Wish they made bitterbrush pellets.
>
>BOHNTR )))---------->


+1 I donated some $ to help out but if it's just Alfalfa pellets that won't be good for them, it's to hot at least from what I've been told. Deer are browsers not grazers like elk. In the end I hope they get the help they need during a difficult winter. More snow coming to Oregon all week so frustration all over the west for sure!

 

[COHunter]

I thought Al Gore said we'd never see another snowflake after 2014? Dang this Global warming is taking too long to get here if you ask me!

 

[huntin50]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-17 AT 09:11AM (MST)[p]Deer do fine with alfalfa pellets if started early enough. It is when they start too late, they can't make the transition.

There are pros and cons with feeding programs. I think if started soon enough and maintained in areas where the deer have cover, and are not stressed from the public, they save deer.

We are going to have winter kill no matter what in some areas in WY,UT,ID, and CO. Hope we have some warmer temps and south slope melt and blow off, and provide more feed.

Deer and elk are congregated, predators will as well.

Hoping for a little more global warming the next couple months.

 

[Farms99]

Any update Tomichi?

 

[LoneWati]

It is a specially formulated pellet that does not cause bloat or acidosses if that is how you spell it.I would like to see them start feeding just to keep the animals off the darn roads. They are bowling pins at night right now.Saving grace I guess is that the below zero temps have not yet showed up as usual.

 

[Tomichi]

Leave home in the dark get home in the dark. wade through the road kill carnage both ways. Full air bag deployment at mm 162 tonight totaled her subaru another healthy doe is gone. Waited for State Patrol to cover it,,, I did my 4 accident reports for the day all ready.... so the horses ate late...Tomorrow at 18:00
CPAW has a public meeting....us old guys will talk and talk.. It is at the Gunnison Rodeo Grounds if any one is close..
My cow feeding tractor has 18 inches of clearance on the front end.Pushing 4 inches with that axle on the level in the meadow,hard crust, Hay trailer is sledding behind me..chained up behind but one of these mornings Im going to get stuck...It has been warm but that is ending tonight it just hit -1 in West Parlin..Lion quota filled in 54-55 so that will help wish it was higher we have plenty of them.
off work tomorrow so plan to look around and kill any thing with fangs then read up for the meeting... took 5 head in for necropsy last Friday all road kills the rest were to obliterated. Conner took two of the 5 as they got killed at my drive way while I was dropping off the other 3. The deer we found that were not road kill were to far gone to take in..see if I can get to any tomorrow with out "moving" any living deer.
I would be feeding if it was up to me but hell I over feed every thing...I have fat cow's fat horses even my barn cats are fat they get canned food in the WINTER,

 

[LoneWati]

If you can, keep a count on your stretch. You are probably already doing so. Sad thing is when 1 Doe is hit, it is just not 1 deer in my eyes. Seems like a theme the DOW should work on and come up with a plan. Good plan that is.Thank you for the update!!

 

[Tomichi]

CPAW has two press releases on their home page. About Gunnison.
Better updates then mine. Way better written.
Last Saturday I could walk on top of the crust from the county road to the fence. After the fence it is pocket knife deep to the hair pile's that were deer. Thats up Quartz Creek. Its Only -2 at 5am..And looks to stay above 0 for a while THAT is the best news..
I would have fed 10 days ago but I (we) need to think about the 2.8 million we spent in 07/08....how many big game tags do we have to sell in these 5 GMU's to pay that back? should Gunnison be that big of a burden on the rest of the state?
I do wish we had a stock pile of feed on hand.
I hope they try different formulas this year and would love to see a feed/bait site with water available. The feed I saw on the web they are feeding up at Bear Lake
looked tastier then what we used in 07/08 hope the western agencies share their recipes and results with each other.
The "let nature take its coarse" folks are right...in a perfect world...In the real world of 2017 their are way to many fences..some are mine...houses..like mine..HWYs that I use...winter recreation has exploded on our winter range.. Gunnison county is a pretty big area summer and fall...it's not very big at 170% snow pack.
Time to load the optics...and the Ruger.

 

[LoneWati]

Would like to see what the costs were to get to 2.4 million in 08. Guessing it was the Airlift operation that sent that number over what they thought would be a 400,000 venture. Maybe use the Gov Tag money for emergency operations only and every 8 years there would be a decent fund to draw from.

 

[Carnage2011]

What are the conditions looking like up around 35? I'm considering an early season hunt there next year or possibly 25/26? Just curious how the winter conditions are up that way.

 

[Tomichi]

Meeting was consistent with their press releases.
Baiting game away from the hwy is the plan..We do have elk for snow plows in 17 and the deer ARE following them, the elk were higher for the most part in 07/08 it was easier to separate them that time. They put in a lot of the same regs as 07/08 for human activity,closed small game below 9500 feet..You could still kill coyotes on private then. I better get that clarified. I should have asked last night.
The four times we have fed game in my life time in Gunnison..A lot of deer died.. My family didn't hunt deer for years after those winters. I don't recommend it after this winter.
They told us they have feed on hand or will soon (days).
They are right that we snowed up a month later than the other bad ones. Our deer are looking down the double barrel of February and March I hope the jet stream doesn't pull the trigger's.

 

[Elkduds]

From CPW website:

A Temporary Emergency Order​ is effective Jan 22 - May 15, 2017 for the Gunnison Basin (GMU'S 54, 55, 66, 67 and 551). This order closes areas in the Basin below 9500' to all recreational small game,

predator, furbearer hunting, mountain lion hunting, and to the collection/possession of shed deer and elk antlers, bighorn sheep skulls and/or horns, and pronghorn skulls and/or horns.

 

[Tomichi]

Well its pretty tough this morning. -32 in West Parlin -29 in Gunnison.
A HIGH of -3 yesterday, Seeing lots of birds and coyotes 400 yards and beyond away from Highway. Those are not road kills. Starting to see fence hanging carcasses. A sign of weakness?
We can kill predators on private land..

 

[kickerbuck]

The fences are a major issue right now here in Oregon as with the deep snow its to much for the fawns to jump and clear the fence. Lots are hung up here too.

 

[LoneWati]

Looks like another -30 low. Forecast was for -14. Pretty sure you can throw the temp forecast in the trash when it is clear outside. 2 days in a row they were not close.Seen some pictures of the area with deer and small elk struggling and dying. Going to be a long 2 months.

 

[Squirrel]

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...


Seems that Gunny is just always in the crosshairs this year, although our tomatoes have gotten a bit of frost lately at -18 as well. Been as low as -35, not bad.

There is a bad ice layer on the bottom from the weird January rain storm but light snow pack where the dying takes place, though high country has a huge snow pack

.
Some smaller fawns starting to look "fuzzy" this last week but that happens in every year. Inordinate number getting whacked by train and cars, wish idiots would slow down. Last night I slowed as I went through a herd crossing the road and a ?DOW truck hauling two sleds blew right past me and through the herd, of course they are still chasing the hell out of them with copters so why not?

Saw this 3 legged one still going pretty good but his ribs were showing.

Ankle deep where most are hanging (look down)

 

[foulshot]

http://www.gunnisontimes.com/news/cpw-says-baiting-working-planned

 

[Farms99]

This warm spell helping?

 

[DW]

It's snowing in the mountains today