LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-05 AT 09:56PM (MST)[p]I'm sure most Arizona archery elk hunters have experienced this problem before. What do you all think about hunters who put treestands up a month before the hunt claiming it's there tank for the hunt. I've been looking at tanks for my upcoming hunt and I could have claimed them much earlier but I don't think it's ethical. This past weekend I was scouting and both the tanks I really like have treestands on them and notes saying archery elk tag# 05 9/16-9/29. Also I saw the guy who put them up and he knew what was up and you can just see the anger in the guy when he drove past. Leads me to wonder what's going to happen opening afternoon. I know it's first come but some don't understand and I might have to open a can of wupp ass. (j/k) I heard you can have the forest service cut them down because it's illegal to leave a stand in a tree overnight. What experiences have you guys had in this and what do you suggest. Also if you have any hunting experiences or advice on unit 9 Arizona archery bull I would greatly appreciate it. email [email protected]
AZ Elk 9
- Thread starter mike111
- Start date
S
SlipRock
Guest
Mike,
I feel your pain, I also have encountered this a lot but I personally do not use tree stands and prefer a ground blind or a natural falldown as cover, Its a shame that some people have to resort to leaving notes warning that the spot has been taken when with the documentation in the regulations spells it out first come first serve and usually it can be handled at the scene with who ever the person is and make a mutual agreement as to using the same spot(you in the morning they at afternoon or whatever), To avoid conflict with an irrational person I have always used the ambush teqnique and find where they travel to water from and set up there away from the waterhole, I unfortunately can not sit for very long though(the grass is always greener over there so to speak)and up and away I go I would rather be walking and locating the animals that way, Congrats on your unit 9 tag and that is a really fun hunt and there are some monsters in there this year, use your calls for location and sneak in on them you will have a blast, Take plenty of pictures to share on here, Good Luck
I feel your pain, I also have encountered this a lot but I personally do not use tree stands and prefer a ground blind or a natural falldown as cover, Its a shame that some people have to resort to leaving notes warning that the spot has been taken when with the documentation in the regulations spells it out first come first serve and usually it can be handled at the scene with who ever the person is and make a mutual agreement as to using the same spot(you in the morning they at afternoon or whatever), To avoid conflict with an irrational person I have always used the ambush teqnique and find where they travel to water from and set up there away from the waterhole, I unfortunately can not sit for very long though(the grass is always greener over there so to speak)and up and away I go I would rather be walking and locating the animals that way, Congrats on your unit 9 tag and that is a really fun hunt and there are some monsters in there this year, use your calls for location and sneak in on them you will have a blast, Take plenty of pictures to share on here, Good Luck
T
Tinman
Guest
About five years ago I had an archery cow tag in 6a. I had scouted a tank they would hit very consistently in the evenings. I chose to build a small ground blind near where the elk would cross a barbed wire fence on their way to the water. I would still hunt in the mornings and sit my blind in the afternoons. Opening day I got to the blind at about 2:00 pm. I had been sitting there for about an hour when this guy with a portable treestand, walks right by me (he knew I was there) and proceeds to cut some limbs off of a nearby tree. I explaned to him as quietly as I could that I was there first and HE would have to move. This guy was a jerk. He expressed his displeasure for me very loudly, said something about respect for elders?, and stormed out of there while cursing. I sat there until dark and saw nothing.
I never sit water holes when I have an elk tag (not often) for the first several days. Usually during mid week people will abandon the water holes and on occasion I will sit them so you can try waiting them out. As for the little signs, I love em, and I collect every one I find.
Ed
Ed
fin little
Active Member
- Messages
- 763
mike111, congrats on the tag. I too drew a ticket to the show. I was hoping that people were getting educated about reserving waterholes. Guess not. The AZG&F used to send a letter to tag holders explaining the law. It gets reel frustrating when one hunter or guide hangs stands and notes on half a dozen tanks and expects them available when they decide to use them. My brother had the tag back in 98. You guessed it , there was a stand hanging on our favorite trick tank. Turns out the guy that "reserved" it was a well known guide and video producer. He was decent about it and we made an agreement. He would flag the trail in if his hunter was sitting it. If there was no flag by 5pm we were welcome. Like I said, he was really nice about it but it still rubbed us the wrong way. It never became an issue. We ended up chasing bugles and ambushing between water, feed and bedding areas. We killed one of the bulls the guy had on his video. Really distinctive bull with cheaters. One time I was down there over labor day weekend, two weeks before the hunt. I found a well used tank with a tree stand already hanging on it. I wanted to take some video on it that afternoon. I built a little ground blind and left. When I returned that afternoon, the blind was destroyed . This was two weeks prior to the hunt! I assume the guy that owned the tree stand scattered my little ground blind. People get pretty intense about thier water holes. mike, hows it looking? I would think that every tank on the unit is full. I hear the grass is waist high.
G
GentleBen
Guest
Yeah, I have ran in to this issue on many hunts as well. Not just elk, but antelope and deer, even turkey. Like you said there is a little note left on the stand or blind letting you know when they will be there. Like many of the other guys have said, I would try the ambush setting or wait in the area around beds...ect. I have seen many situations go south real quick when hunters are claiming waterholes. I even heard people yelling in the distance over treestands and blinds. It's preety crazy how some of these guys think they are the only one's allowed to hunt in the woods. Pretty crappy some people are this way.
Congrats on your tag! You're in for one hell of a ride! Another thing to think about is the weather, if ther is plenty of moisture the elk will hit puddles in roads or find other ways to get water, especially if they get pressured enough they will bypass waterholes or even wait till night time to get there H2o. Hope you whack a big one and Good Luck!!!
-BEN-
Congrats on your tag! You're in for one hell of a ride! Another thing to think about is the weather, if ther is plenty of moisture the elk will hit puddles in roads or find other ways to get water, especially if they get pressured enough they will bypass waterholes or even wait till night time to get there H2o. Hope you whack a big one and Good Luck!!!
-BEN-
Thanks for the responses. It does get frustrating but I guess that's the way it goes. Last year I had the tag and I would tag the area of the tank letting people know I was in a stand. Some tanks were so competitive last year, I really enjoyed chasing the bulls and cutting them off, I had a lot of shot opportunities by cutting off bugles. Also the bulls seem to come to cow calls very well so I look at tank sitting as just a bonus. I guess the thing that really gets me about this whole thing is I was up there the weekend after the draw results and no tanks were tagged. I had the stuff to tag my favorite one without putting a stand up. I thought maybe people won't be so stupid this year. Then to see the guy putting them up the day I'm there and thinking he beat me, also putting the stand in the tree just for boldness. Well that stands looks pretty good and if the forest service doesn't take it down I may have an extra treestand to educate this guy. Fin Little I also took video of bulls coming to tanks before the hunt last year it was a blast. A lot of the tanks are taken already but it really means nothing come opening day it's first come. I may have to put all these years of lifting weights to use which could be fun. This last weekend I scouted Friday night through Saturday night. Slept in the car when I got done Friday night I was out. It was very muddy and wet in places up there, a few times I had to turn around or I would have sank. I always have a hard time finding elk at night this time of year up there. I saw a few bulls and a lot of small bucks but nothing great. Towards September the scouting should get better. The grass is looking very green, just excellent. I talked to the game manager for the unit and he said this is the best year he's ever seen it up there. He said the bulls are just huge this year. Good Luck on your hunt.
Yeah, I got a Unit 9 archery bull tag this year, but will not be able to go. Anyway, I got tree-stands at Old Hibbins Tk, Lone-Tree Pothole, Dent-an-Sayer and in Cabin Draw.
I got little red signs saying, "Shed-Reg".
Hope the Forest Service don't take them down. They are pretty high-dollar stands.
Shed-Reg
I got little red signs saying, "Shed-Reg".
Hope the Forest Service don't take them down. They are pretty high-dollar stands.
Shed-Reg
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tim
Guest
hey shedreg do you have tree stands on all those tanks ?
is that right x(
is that right x(
R
redrabbit
Guest
A friend and I had this same discussion last night about tree stands, "claiming" tanks, and altercations. He, his dad, and son have all had problems at tanks, leading to threats and gun exhibition. I have been fortunate and have met ethical hunters who inquired or abided by the first-come principle.
The idea of claiming a tank by putting up a stand two months before the season is ludicrous. Does constructing a ground blind make it the builders for the following years that it stands cuz he built it? Yep, heard that one.
The concept of claiming multiple tanks with stands on each is even more appalling. One can only hunt one place at a time. So, others should stay away from his multiple chosen spots not knowing which one place the self-righteous, schizophrenic, out-of body experienced hunter is going to be and has "claimed" 1/20 of the tanks in the unit with his five stands? Maybe all stands should have serial numbers and hunters are limited to one registered stand.
Even first-come may have its problems. You hunt a tank in the morning, go to camp to eat lunch, and come back in the evening to find another hunter. Guess we should do surveillance on the other hunters and move in when the coast is clear and claim his spot. The noise of setting up a stand each day is not good if you legally must remove it daily.
My friend totally blames G&F for not regulating stand hunting. I say that a law on the books will not stop the ***holes that cause the problems, anyway. But then, a video camera, cell phone and license plate number may go a long way after a cheery goodbye.
RR
The idea of claiming a tank by putting up a stand two months before the season is ludicrous. Does constructing a ground blind make it the builders for the following years that it stands cuz he built it? Yep, heard that one.
The concept of claiming multiple tanks with stands on each is even more appalling. One can only hunt one place at a time. So, others should stay away from his multiple chosen spots not knowing which one place the self-righteous, schizophrenic, out-of body experienced hunter is going to be and has "claimed" 1/20 of the tanks in the unit with his five stands? Maybe all stands should have serial numbers and hunters are limited to one registered stand.
Even first-come may have its problems. You hunt a tank in the morning, go to camp to eat lunch, and come back in the evening to find another hunter. Guess we should do surveillance on the other hunters and move in when the coast is clear and claim his spot. The noise of setting up a stand each day is not good if you legally must remove it daily.
My friend totally blames G&F for not regulating stand hunting. I say that a law on the books will not stop the ***holes that cause the problems, anyway. But then, a video camera, cell phone and license plate number may go a long way after a cheery goodbye.
RR
A
archeryelkaholic
Guest
I had a unit 8 archer tag a couple of years ago and there were SEVERAL treestands on every piece of water in that unit. I did hunt from a ground blind a couple of times but this was on water you HAD to walk to and it was a GOOD hike. It still had 2 treestands on it but nobody hunting while I was there. Everybody I talked to was talking about the fights they had EVERY day to hunt over water. EVERY SINGLE DAY. One guy came out after dark to have a GANG of guys ready to kick his A$$ if he hunted the hole again.
I would rather go chase them or do something else.
You are wasting you time talking to G&F. They are not going to help you.
Archer
I would rather go chase them or do something else.
You are wasting you time talking to G&F. They are not going to help you.
Archer
A
archeryelkaholic
Guest
I don't think you will EVER see G&F do anything about this.
As far as taking them down I doubt it. I have had 4 archery tags in Arizona and have seen this for MANY, MANY years. Not as bad as it is now but there would be stand there weeks before the season and G&F NEVER, NEVER, NEVER even thought about taking them down. Not to day they have not taken down 1 out of 9999999999999 but they don't do it on a regular basis.
I wouldn't even take a treestand to AZ if I had a tag. Not worth the BS.
I was in Utah a few years back and it is almost as bad. Treestands on most water with notes and the whole line.
Archer
As far as taking them down I doubt it. I have had 4 archery tags in Arizona and have seen this for MANY, MANY years. Not as bad as it is now but there would be stand there weeks before the season and G&F NEVER, NEVER, NEVER even thought about taking them down. Not to day they have not taken down 1 out of 9999999999999 but they don't do it on a regular basis.
I wouldn't even take a treestand to AZ if I had a tag. Not worth the BS.
I was in Utah a few years back and it is almost as bad. Treestands on most water with notes and the whole line.
Archer
A
archeryelkaholic
Guest
Was also in New Mexico not long ago and there was at LEAST 1 treestand on every piece of water in the unit.
AZtrophyhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 774
So just hunt the trails that lead to the water & kill the damn bull before it ever gets there. Besides, water is not a necessity as it has been in years past.
B
basinghost
Guest
I live in 9 and just love all the tree stands everywhere cause when I go filming or even for the archery deer, I never have to lug out my own stands and get my mine dirty :->. Yeah I've seen some pretty good fights and even some blows thrown once. My theory- get there before me and it's yours.
R
Rem7UltraMag
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-05 AT 02:08AM (MST)[p]With as much water as they have up there, being at a water hole would not even be an option for me. Way better methods to use than sitting water and having to put up with the BS everyday.
You have to get up early enough as it is when hunting, even earlier to beat a person to a waterhole, just to find a person already there. Now you have to waste more time trying to decide where you are going to hunt......NO THANKS...I'd rather concentrate my efforts where I know the Elk are.
Scouting, scouting, scouting, scouting, and more SCOUTING. Nothing can prepare you like time in the field. Learn the area. Learn where the elk move to and from. After you have figured that out....it gets easier....anyone that has worked hard to figure it out knows exactly what I mean.
You have to get up early enough as it is when hunting, even earlier to beat a person to a waterhole, just to find a person already there. Now you have to waste more time trying to decide where you are going to hunt......NO THANKS...I'd rather concentrate my efforts where I know the Elk are.
Scouting, scouting, scouting, scouting, and more SCOUTING. Nothing can prepare you like time in the field. Learn the area. Learn where the elk move to and from. After you have figured that out....it gets easier....anyone that has worked hard to figure it out knows exactly what I mean.
H
Happyhunting
Guest
Bottom line is 1st come, 1st served. It doesn't matter if someone has a treestand on a waterhole. If you beat him to the waterhole in the morning then, once again 1st come, 1st served. If you have any problems during your elk hunt, bring a copy of the hunt regulations with you in your backpack and show the hunter where it reads, "1st come, 1st served,"
I've found if you talk to the guys and propose a reasonable solution most will work it out. Hunting every other night usually will work or two on two off. Be prepared, some guys will not work something out. If they won't be reasonable put a stand in a tree on a well known route to the hole and you may have success as well. They don't own the water hole and remind them of that if they get too insistant. The early bird gets the worm but make sure you are giving them an opportunity to hunt there as well. The game and fish will explain the rule to them if pressed. Bear in mind this is an animal that you can hunt several other ways with a high degree of success. Use your skills and you may find that hunting them on the ground is a lot more fun and rewarding. Good luck to all of you that drew that tag!
J
jaybob
Guest
This is a problem that will take all of us to help get solved. First of all, next time your up there go to the Forest Service district office in Tusayan and inform the Ranger (Rick Ston I think is his name). If you put a little pressure on him, he will allow his employees to go out and check the tanks. From there, they will put a notice on the stand and check it everyday for the next 14 days. After that it is considered adandoned and they will take it down and give it to law enforcement. The Forest Service employees are all for fairness up there, they just need to be allowed to persure the Federal laws and getting the message through the main man there, the Ranger, will help the guys get to do there job. That's what I did a couple years back and the guys we happy to get to enforce the laws! Next, call the Region 2 office in Flagstaff and speak to Matt Bratts and let him know. He is the local elk cop up there and will usually help in the problem.
Never run into this problem but the first thought through my mind was "WoooHooo free treestand" But I don't archery hunt therefore have no need for a treestand so "WoooHooo, Ebay Auction"
Seriously though, I would let the F&G know where this stand was and let them deal with it legally. I can joke but I would be ticked if someone stole my treestand even if my dumb a$$ put it there illegally.
Seriously though, I would let the F&G know where this stand was and let them deal with it legally. I can joke but I would be ticked if someone stole my treestand even if my dumb a$$ put it there illegally.
B
born2bhuntin
Guest
There has been a many a stand to dissappear in them there woods! AZGF has no place to say what goes on stands-but the USFS does-and it reads as such-no permanent stands-stands shall not be placed earlier than 2 weeks before hunts and shall be removed within 2 weeks after the hunt! Although our AZGF is taking it upon themselves to remove stands and sell them! So if some of these stands dissappear-we can blame it on them!
"KILL THEM ALL AND LET GOD SORT THEM OUT"
"KILL THEM ALL AND LET GOD SORT THEM OUT"
