So is 500" the new 400"?

Chef · Oct 3, 2005

With all the great quality bulls harvested lately, it seems like a 400 inch bull is no longer the epitomy of a once in a lifetime. I absolutely can't believe people are harvesting wild 500+ inch bulls! That is great news for all of us.

While I still would be ecstatic with a 350, it's nice to know some states are producing monstrous racks. Can't wait to see what is harvested after all the hunts are over and the dust settles.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"

mike111 · Oct 3, 2005

My opinion..I think a 400" bull will be hard for any hunter to achieve in any Western State in this lifetime. Probably 70% of elk hunters will never see a 400 bull and 95% will never harvest one. Currently there are bigger bulls being taken but I think a lot will agree a 360, 370 or 380 bull will always be tough to harvest. I know where your coming from Chef it is amazing what bulls are being harvested, but a 350+ bull is still the bull of a lifetime for many hunters.

Prism · Oct 3, 2005

I guess I missed the memo Chef. Have there been some 500" bulls shot this year???

AZ402 · Oct 3, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-05 AT 10:15PM (MST)[p]I think 400 and 200 are still the epitomy of once in a lifetime. 400 is probably as hard if not harder than 200 for a mule deer. I think I missed the 500" memo as well. I only know of one ever that goes over 500 and thats the bull from the San Carlos taken in the late 90's.

huntsonora · Oct 3, 2005

I think that Mike was a little liberal with his estimations, I would bet that 98% of hunters will never see a 400" bull with much less than 1% ever having an opportunity to harvest one. I dont think that 500" will ever be the "new 400".

Drum

AZtrophyhunter · Oct 3, 2005

500? Geez.......

bittersweetmuleymeat · Oct 3, 2005

I think 98% and 1% may STILL be a bit liberal. Realistically, once you think about it. Not just people on this sight, or hard core hunters, but the general public with an elk tag in hand.
Just guessing, but figure 100,000 elk, mabey 30,000 bulls, mabey 1,500 six to ten year olds, mabey only 250 with the right genetic possibilities, 50 that all the cards came up right, 5 or 10 that got the right feed and didnt get hit by a car.
Im not a biologist nor a mathmatician but I know I have seen several thousand wild bulls and only 3 that I am CONFIDENT would gross over 400. Same with mule deer (200" not 400") I am still looking to harvest one of each and will be suprised and blessed if I do.
I WILL say it does seem through public and private "trophy" management there is ALOT more 400" bulls than there was 10 or 15 years ago. Bittersweet

Rem7UltraMag · Oct 3, 2005

Are we talking net or gross....B&C, P&Y, or SCI? Or does it really matter when they get that big?

antlerrick · Oct 4, 2005

Just drawing a LE permit to hunt the units where you would have a chance to find one of these 400 inch monsters is less than 1%, and then to actually locate one of them is like finding a needle in a haystack, unless you have a posse helping you, and then actually having everything come together at the moment of truth is highly improbable. I think most of the big bulls that are killed by the general public are actually just coincidence, and not all skill, not to say that anyone who harvests a great bull is all lucky, but you must admit that luck has to play a big part in a hunt of this kind.
There is luck in drawing the tag, luck in finding the bull, and luck in getting it all to come together!
A little knowledge and skill can't hurt, but I think I'd rather be LUCKY than Good.
The guides who are skilled enough to harvest these big bulls annually, spend years watching these bulls and know where they spend their time during different times of the year, and when the moment of truth comes, they are very knowledgeable about where to put their hunter to be successful..

gil_wy · Oct 4, 2005

And then when you consider most "400 bulls" seen on the hoof are actually closer to 350 then I would say 99.99% of hunters have never seen a 400 bull....and about .008% get to harvest one.....Seriously in a given year how many typical 400 bulls get taken (this year excluded....not a "normal" year)? 4 maybe 5???

dutch · Oct 4, 2005

In 20 years of hunting SW Colorado I've seen one bull taken that was over 370. The next biggest ones, a few in the 300-320 range. Biggest bull I've taken probably only 240, with a few raghorns in there.
Then again I hunt in Colorado so the chances of me seeing a 400 bull are slim to none let alone harvesting a 350 bull, maybe but unlikely. Never know though. They are there but Colorado just doesn't have the quality of bulls compared to NM, Az and maybe even Idaho and Montana.
dutch
" Man who excels at putting worm on hook is Master Baiter"

Deerlove · Oct 4, 2005

Will see a 500 inch elk thats farm raised, shot with steroids, and some hunter(shooter) with a big smile on his face acting like he just worked his butt of to shoot the penned animal.

browtine · Oct 4, 2005

Two years ago I would have agreed in that 98% of hunters would never see a 400+ bull. This year alone I know of over half a dozen bulls in Utah that are over the 400 inch mark with almost half of those bulls over the 420 mark. It doesnt account for any of the bulls that will surface in the next few weeks, let alone the other states producing these bulls well over the 400 mark. That being said, The bulls are getting bigger, and more common. (knock on wood). It is my own oppinion that here in Utah, this year far exceeds years passed as far has hunter success with big bulls taken. The bulls being killed are getting bigger and bigger. That being said, people who visit winter ranges/LE units have a very good chance of seeing a bull over "400".

I agree that 500 will never be the new 400. I think th 400 and 200 is the lifetime mark. I hope to hit that goal one day.

Later, Brandon

slider · Oct 4, 2005

I agree 99.9% of all Hunter's will NEVER see a 400 Class Bull let alone Harvest one!!! The same for a 200 inch Mule Deer!!! Good Luck

Cass · Oct 4, 2005

I've only ever seen 1 500+ bull shot in my lifetime. I've seen my share of bulls 390+ but the chance to harvest one has only come to me 1 time. It goes back to the whole saying, Good things come to those who wait. and Hard work always pays off in the end. Some of these guys drawing elk tags just figure they can go out and shoot it 100 yards from the truck and then put their tag on it. Theres 400 bulls out there, they are becoming more and more prosperous. But like my old man has always told me. They don't get big by being seen. That seems to be a true story with both monster bucks and monster bulls. If you wanna see them it takes a lot of freakin work.

-Cass

AZ402 · Oct 4, 2005

Cass, did your alarm clock go off right after you saw the 500+??

dutch · Oct 5, 2005

Not to argue with you Cass but I know of only one 500 bull EVER killed and- I even have a hard time trying to picture in my mind what a 500 bull would look like! Pretty damn big. Mike Shipsey's 9x10 is a 475 point Boone & Crockett taken on the San Carlos Apache Indian Reservation in September 1997. I wish there was a better picture.

dutch
" Man who excels at putting worm on hook is Master Baiter"

Ropinfool · Oct 5, 2005

No offence, but most hunters can't tell a 300 bull from a 400 bull and most of us will never see a 400 bull.

Chef · Oct 5, 2005

Must be some misunderstandings here. I jumped the gun when I saw the post on the 502 bull that I now realize might have come off a ranch. Looking through the internet, one finds "plenty" of bulls with 500" gross at these ranches.

So no memo has yet been recieved on wild 500 inchers! LOL

Although these "large" amounts of 400++ inchers taken so far this year is astounding.

Dutch, here are some more pics of that San Carlos bull. There is a replica of this bull at a Sportsmans Warehouse here in Phoenix.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"

Cass · Oct 5, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-05 AT 04:33PM (MST)[p]No, I'm sure i've seen 1 500" bull. Ever been to see the elk at that Elkfarm in Gunnison.... A few years back I stopped by there on my way up scouting... Some of the most unreal, Massive, MONSTER! bulls i've ever even imagined seeing. I know there are some on there WELL Over 400... At least 5 years ago.

-Cass

Deerlove · Oct 5, 2005

Cass, didnt your dad shoot one of those fenced bulls?

Cass · Oct 5, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-05 AT 10:28PM (MST)[p]I'm done with this.
There's plenty of guys out there that have shot SCI Animals and none of them get the ridicule that I do and I didn't even shoot the damn animal. I'm sick of this sh!t, peace.
Brian, thanks for the years of laughs and wonderful stories to read, photos to look at, and congrats on the latest evolution of your enterprise.

-Cass

browtine · Oct 6, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-05 AT 08:39AM (MST)[p]maybe im missing the boat.. but what exactly do you mean by "There's plenty of guys out there that have shot SCI Animals and none of them get the ridicule that I do".. Just curious..I dont see how that applys to this post.

Later, Brandon

dutch · Oct 6, 2005

We're not talking about ranch raised elk Cass!!!
We are talking public land, National Forest, BLM or state lands!!!! Elk that live in the wild!!!
I have also seen alot of bulls over 380-400 if you count a damn ranch raised elk, that is all they breed them for are the horns.
dutch
" Man who excels at putting worm on hook is Master Baiter"

MrBaitnFish · Oct 6, 2005

"But like my old man says. They don't get big by being seen".. they get big by living behind fences and being grain fed. That's how ya get the big 'uns son.