BEWARE, Here is a story for you.

R

rumple

Guest
My brother shot and killed what he thought was a spike elk. It was, however, a 2 point. The antlers had forked opposite of what they should normally do. So he did the right thing and called the DWR from his cell phone, from the kill site. The officer showed up and took the elk, and issued my brother a ticket. When my brother talked to the judge, both he and the game officer said that with the elk standing broadside they both agreed that they would have thought that it was a spike elk. My brother shot it at over 300 yards running, not a chance in he** he would have been able to tell that it was not a spike. Well the judge issued him a ticket for over 400 dollars. My brother is the most straight shooting ehtical person I know and he has said that he will even think twice before turning himself in again. You would think that the judge might have cut him some slack, maybe even less of a fine or something for his honesty and the fact that the elks antlers formed the way that they did.
 
Yet another example of how backwards our justice system is. Next time I am sure your brother will keep his mouth shut along with anyone else reading this. It's a shame to be treated like a criminal when you're not.
 
No offense, but don't take 300 yard running shots! Especially on a spike only hunt. I don't doubt that he's very ethical but figure it out.
 
You're telling me that you wouldn't take a few shots at an elk at over 300 yards, wide open, sagebrush with no trees, flat shot, broadside, while it is running?
 
He should have made sure it was a spike before he started shooting. 300 yrds is a long way off. How much time did he have to look at it before shooting?

muleyman
 
Well when the elk came running out of the trees into the sage flat he had enough time to look at it through his scope. But even then, the extra points were so small you wouldnt have been able to see them through binos. The extra points were like 1 to 2 inches long, and if you are good enough to see those small points on a running elk, from 300 yards, and with them forking opposite of what they should then you you can come hunting with me next year and put those eagle eyes to work. Besides its not like it was skylined, the background was sagebrush.
 
Your brother did a very noble thing. I would have thought that the judge would have been a little more understanding. I am fearful of the same problem almost to a fault. For the last three years, I have had what I thought were Spikes standing broadside at 200 and 300 yards and for some reason, I have been given doubt by either the scrub oak behind it or one side having a branch. The intent of the spike is yearling bull so I still feel the men in charge should have used what authority they have in judgement and done something different. Hopefully, no hunting privelidges or anything like that were taken away. And, yes, turning yourself in again???? I would wager your brother won't do that again.
 
Its funny a post like this would show up. I'm not laughing at your situation--just the fact that MY brother had the same thing happen 4 yrs ago with the exact opposite outcome.

The year it happened I had tagged out already and was helping my little brother. We found a herd down low in the cedars and could get no closer due to the terrain. We glassed for about 5 minutes before the "1X2" gave my brother a shot at around 350-400 yds.

When we approached the elk "OH SH!T" came from both our mouths. It was a straight up 2 pt but the small forks were perpendicular to each other. No matter which way this fella held his head you saw a fork and a spike. Due to the distance and Excitement niether of us had noticed this flaw.

Called the Warden, explained the circumstances and waited for him to show up and investigate. He let us go with no ticket, he even give us a "get out of jail free card" (A note explaining the events and his contact information in case we were questioned)
 
so how much did that elk cost to manage through proper wildlife management? three years ago I shot a 5x5 elk that I though was a 6 point bull in a 6 point only area. did I report myself ,yup. did I take the 1100.00canadian fine yep did I argue ? nope. because I did the wrong thing. I miss counted, I made a mistake and I would report myself again. any time. at least by reporting myself the elk went to under privelaged people that really needed it. leaving it without reporting it would have been poaching. I will never regret the decision I made. honesty will always make you stronger and you never have to hang your head or look over your shoulder.
 
Thats a bunch of BS!!!! An employee of mine was on his way home from deer hunting on sunday here in Utah, they stopped at a check station (I wont say where) and Lo and behold there is a 16 yr old gil there with a BIG A55 6x7 Bull Elk that she "mistook for a big deer" her dad should be poleaxed!! she was all alone when she shot it, and guess what???? They took the Elk, handed out a $100 ticket and sent them on their way!!!! What a load of crap!! If it was me, they would have shot me dead on the spot!! And took my truck!!! Stories like that really piss me off!!!
 
WELL rumple FORESKIN!!!

REMEMBER YOU RUNNING YOUR PIE-HOLE & GIVING ME SOME $HIT???

NOW IT'S MY TURN!!!

IF YOU'RE GONNA TRY & STIR IT WITH ME,I'LL RETURN THE FAVOR!!!

YOU'D BETTER START SPOTTING A LITTLE BETTER FOR YOUR BROTHER!!!

IF YOUR GONNA SHOOT SUPPOSED SPIKES AT 300+ YARDS YOU MIGHT TRY SOME SWAROVSKI'S RATHER THAN TASCO'S!!!

YOUR BROTHER DONE THE RIGHT THING,YOU GONNA DO THE SAME???

I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST YOUR BROTHER,SOUNDS LIKE AN ETHICAL HUNTER FOR TURNING HIMSELF IN,I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR BROTHER,WILL HE TURN HIMSELF IN AGAIN???

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING YOU'D OF BEEN BETTER OFF TO SHOOT A BIG BULL & ACT DUMB!!!
 
People talk about doing the ethical thing and calling the warden etc. How about doing what's ethical for the animals. The ethical thing to do is make sure you know what you are shooting at as well as a "CLEAN KILL SHOT". 300 yard on the run shot is far from ethical.
 
I am sorry it happened but if there is no way to tell YOU DO NOT SHOOT

The law is not so you can shoot if you cannot tell and hope for the best. That is ridicoulous.

IMO he definetly deserved the ticket, this is not even a grey area.

I guess next time I hunt in PA in a 4 point minimum unit and a buck is in the brush I should shoot, then count points and if it is not 4 on one side call the game warden and explain that it was to thick to count points.

He did not only miss 1 point, he missed one point on each side!

Good for you guys for doing the right thing, it is not like I think you went way over the line but I do beleive if you cannot tell you cannot shoot.

If the elk was 300 yards away and running that is not an ethical shot to begin with. I have taken all 3 of my elk at under 40 yards, get closer and you can identify your target better, not spooking it also helps.
 
I just saw that the points were small, what is the legal size for a point? If it is 1" the law is to tough to identify, but still it is up to you to do so.

IMO an ethical shot is one you can make 90% of the time, not at the range, but in the field. 0.1% of hunters can make that shot 90% of the time.

I think if I were the game warden based on the small points I would give a very stern warning, not sure though, would have to see the scenario, then again the circumstances the shot was taken under do not allow for proper identification, so I might give the ticket.
 
Actually, a $400 ticket with no license suspension was taking it easy on him. He would have been looking at a lot worse if he were caught without turning himself in.
 
300 yards and running..................


and you don't see a problem with that?









get close & Shoot straight
 
Rumple,

You and your brother did the right thing by reporting the situation. It was an honest mistake but considering the circumstances (300 yards, running) it was a mistake that had to be dealt with. If the bull would have been at 50 yards, maybe you would have seen in.

I can imagine your frustration after making the shot and seeing the extra points. I don't believe your brother will make the same mistake again to have to not turn himself in. Hopefully you both learnt a valuable lesson and will hold out on shooting until being positive of what you are shooting at.

If you would have been let go without a ticket, that would have sent the wrong message.

I would have expected to get ticketed.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-05 AT 09:49AM (MST)[p]Your brother made a mistake by not 100% identifying that the bull was a spike. I can see where that could happen. He also did the right thing by facing up to his mistake right away and I applaud hi for that. In the end, he paid the consequences for his mistake as it should be. Part of being a man is to admit whe you make a mistake and to accept the consequences. The point of admitting what you did is not to avoid them.

Jeff
 
Ok, not to offend anyone, but to us a 300 yard shot is not unethical. We sight in our rifles at 300 yards dead on. Unethical in our eyes to shoot at that distance, not to us.
In response to all of your kind advice,

out4elk - Thanks for the post, I will say that I think that it depends on the warden and the judge and how strict they are on the rules and circumstances. Good for you and your brother to contact the law. That is the right thing to do.

3113blacktail - I would have been pissed at the $1100 fine. What were your circumstances when you made your mistake. Was the deer at 50 yards standing broadside, sylined? Then yes you should take the fine and not argue for shooting in that circumstance. I think that the circumstances shoyuld play a factor in your consequnce. I agree with you that being honest will make you stronger and you should never hang your head for being honest, we didnt we were just pissed at the outcome.

257Tony - I think that they would have nailed you too. Thanks for the post.

bobcatbess - My time isnt worth responding to you anymore, I've got more important things to do than to pass immature, childish comments back and forth with you. Unless you have something constructive to say to me or anyone else here in MM dont bother making posts.

DonV - Its not that we were trying to tell if it was a 2 point or not. I dont think that if he was standing at 300 yards we would have been able to tell that he had the extras they were to samll and hidden from the sagebrush. I believe anyone would have shot at it, at least those that are willing to shoot over 300 yards and call it ethical. Anyone would have and would have made the same mistake. Sometimes mistakes just happen, I truly feel that those who govern the law overus should deal with the facts and the person moral integrity and the circumstances.We didnt spook it either by the way. Someone else did, and we didny have 2 hours to watch him and make sure that he was a solid spike. Then stalk him, get closer and make sure of the spike. I think that if he would have received a $100 dollar ticket that that would have been fair, Im not asking for the ticket to be taken away, just for the law to look at the circumstances and judge fairly from there.

elmerfudd - either you are a warden, or else some wardens have really nailed you hard for the hunting mistakes that you have made.

bullhound - No, I dont see a problem with that. How good of a shot are you at a moving target around 300 yards?

Chef - I expected the ticket just a lessen fine. There is a huge differnce in being able to look at horns and make a decision when one is at 50 yards standing still versus 300 yards and moving. The lesson that we learned is that we are going to think twice if our circumstances land us in that situation again.

Blanchje - I agree part of being a man is admitting your mmistakes and accepting the consequences. If you were standing there right by us, you most likely would have thought it was a spike too. Or maybe you would have tried to stop him from shooting and suggested that we go into the thick pines that he running for, find him in there, get close enough and make the shot from there?
 
I do agree strongly that you handled it well, and admited your error, if I were in that situation I might have taken a 300 yard shot at a standing animal after watching it for a while and not seeing the extra points and basically done the same thing.

Again I am curious what lenght is considered a point.

Here in Ohio were rifle are illegal, points have to be a shorter length (to be legal) then in PA where rifles are legal (and therefor more likely to have higher mag. scopes). I always thought this made sense, out west for an elk IMO 3" is the min they should call a point, I might even go as high as 4-5".

That is the only way to prevent what happened to you, 1 300 yard shot under many circumstances is very ethical, but indentifying points under 5" is VERY hard even under great circumstances, it darn near means getting a rest and using a spotting scope.

Any way, you definetly did the right things and I commend you for it, I have no doubt the points were hard to see and you tried.

I also think $100 is better, but then again I have no idea what is typical for this type of thing.
 
well........ you maned up and called in the warden. good for you. you can sleep knowing you did the right thing. Unfortunantly you did the wrong thing by taking too long of a shot. Obviously 300 yards on the range is a whole lot different than 300 in the field or you would have properly identified the bull. Pay the ticket and move on. As others have said, you should have expected the ticket and a few hundred is pretty cheap. he could have taken all your gear too.
 
to me it all comes down to intent. pretty apparent the guy didn't intend to break the law. but at the same time you're basically throwing yourself to the mercy of the courts when you turn yourself in. sometimes that works out. at least he didn't lose his license. a few years back i watched a 10 year old shoot a cow elk that turned out to be a spike with both antlers broke off at the bases. along comes joe jackass the game warden and takes it away and gives the kid a ticket. kid was heartbroke and terrified. i doubt he'll ever hunt again. i told the kid's dad to call me and i'd testify for him. anyway, an older, wiser game warden looked at the situation and gave the kid back his elk and tore up the ticket. in that case i felt it was totally justified. i couldn't tell it was a bull, and i'm a pretty good judge o' elk. too bad it happened to your brother all around. but at the same time, laws is laws. learn from it and go on. you ain't gonna get a concensus on this site that shooting it was ok.
 
Rumples
to me the circumstances didnot make a differents, the fact was is I screwed up there for I own up. It was wrong that I did not take the proper care to ID ther animal. and that was at 150 yards and I have great optics, SLCs so I have now learned to take a little extra time to make a positive ID therefor I have had to pass on a lot more animals ever since, because I have to look that little extra,
we all learn the hard way every now and then but I am sure it will make you a better hunter and a little more patient.
 
I find it interesting that some who post on this site have never made a mistake whether it be hunting, fishing, or ANYTHING ELSE in life. A mistake was made, the man admitted it, paid his dues whether large or small (depending on how you look at it) and is moving on. I have a hard time with those that love to point fingers, have never made a mistake and never will. (At least they won't admit it.)

We all see things differently. All you have to do is talk to five people that witness an auto accident and often you come up with 5 different version. It is all in the eye of the beholder. We have all wittness ground shrinkage on deer and elk (I'm not talking 6 or 5 point to spike). We hear it all the time, "I thought that buck was wider than it is". Well we didn't didn't obviously see it as it was.

This man is a bigger man than most are giving him credit for.
 
To everyone:

I am all about a good clean kill. For some of you that requires you to be within 50 yards standing still broad side (you need to quit watching the hunting channel). Others are very comfortable shooting long distances. This is not the problem though. It is the rule! Can anybody remember when the rule was simply no elk with a brow tine. Very simple, very hard to make a mistake and most of all user friendly. The DWR should never ticket anybody for killing a 2 point bull I dont care what the situation is. We need to stick together and rules that dont work need our help finding their way out of the proclamation. By the way our hunting group was very successful on the spike hunt we were 50% after the second weekend in utah. Remember fish cops want your money, but they dont want you to be successful and if you are just plan on getting shi_ from the DWR office.

elking
 
Rumple,
Did the DWR take the entire elk?


Anyway, Sh%$ happens at least he did the right thing.
 
a whole lot of good points and bad points. 1 thing to think about is this. the spike only is getting out of hand. i have seen as i am sure most of you around here alot of spikes with 2 or 3 ponts on 1 or more side, and you can look at them and tell that they are yearlings, mabye just good genes or freeky genes but what ever if there is no brow tine they should all be legal. and we should shoot the ugly ones as well. my brother in law saw i 4 point bull on the spike only area that said he was the uglest damn thing you had ever seen should have been shot for being so ugly.( i know some people like that!)

www.unitedpullers.com
 
rumple, tell your brother that he is more man than most to admit his mistake. also good job on avoiding old bessy, listen to him and end up with a piece of wool in your zipper.
 
In Colorado they say if something like this happens call a game warden to investigate. Yeah right, just keep your mouth shut and get it out of there. Maybe I'm not ethical but they will hang you regardless if your trying to do the right thing or not.
dutch
" Man who excels at putting worm on hook is Master Baiter"
 
Thanks for the comments DonV. I believe that 1 inch is considered scoreable and legal. If I am wrong someone pease correct me.
 
""My brother shot it at over 300 yards running, not a chance in he** he would have been able to tell that it was not a spike.""

"didnt have time"...

"we sight in at 300".....


OMG, I just could not take reading this without replying.

Its called hunting for a reason. Hunting is not target practice. Hunting is not a long shot competition. Hunting isnt about your buddys patting you on the back or how cool you think you are for killing something running at 300plus yards.

Way to many variables could cause a bad shot in this circumstance. This increases the chance of wounding the animal making this shot, unethical. You bro is an amazing marksman no doubt. Very honorable to turn himself in as well.

Try actually hunting the animal and clearly identify your target next time and you wont get any fines. How? Sneak up on it and hunt it down.

Why was there "not enough time" to give the animal some respect? I can hear you now..."Gee cuz they were running" or "Um cuz it was the last day and was getting dark" or "shoot, it was the only spike we saw all week"....

The real challenge of hunting is getting close to your prey and outsmarting it. IMO I dont care if its with a rifle, muzzy or bow. Try it sometime!!I bet the thrill is way better than telling everyone how you killed a running bull at 300+ yards.

Pot shots at any running animal, sucks.

Hone your woodsmanship and your hunting skills.
 
Thanks for the post everyone.

RLH - That warden that did that to that kid needs to have some sense knocked into him. Its true you are at the mercy of the law, hopefully you catch them on a good day.

WapitiBob - That is a good point I guess he could have nailed my brother even harder. Maybe he's lucky depends on how you look at it. I thought it should have been a lesser fine though.

3113blacktail - how many animals do you think that you could have bagged that you passed on since that incident? Most likely the majority if not all of them would have been legal had you shoot at them. Were you able to tell if they were legal or not from your extra time spent looking at them? I think that if you had shot everyone of those that you have passed on since, you would have most likely killed a legal animal. At least for me if you have to scrutinze every animal you are going to shoot at to make sure that there arent any 1 inch kickers on him that will make him illegal then some of the fun of hunting has been lost. But if you want to make 100% sure that you are not going to shoot an illegal animal, more power to you. But can you gaurantee me that you will shoot a 100% legal animal 100% of the time?

PappaBull - Thanks for the comments, they are appreciated.

You too SneakAttack.

elking - I totally agree with you post. It would make it alot easier to identify a legal bull if the rule was for no browtines. You have a very good point. thanks for the post.

BIG - Yes the DWR took the entire elk and his linces along with the fine.

4x6 - I agree with your post totally.

baldbull - Funny post, yeah I figured I would just avoid his incessant childish comments. I dont know what he is trying to prove.

dutch - I agree most of them are going to nail you to the wall. My brother would probably turn himself in, I dont know if I would or not. I got a 300 dollar fine for forgetting to cut out the date and year of my spike elk kill one year. I thought the fine was a little stiff, but I dont blame them for that one, of course they are going to think that when I get home I am going to take the tag right off and go hunting again. My mistake and I paid for it, but Im not complaining about that one I understand the thinking behind giving me that one.

kirkl - We were hunting in Utah and I believe that it is 1 inch here as well.
 
YOU'RE WELCOME!!!

YA SEE rumple YOU SCREWED WITH ME FIRST!!!

WHEN SOMEBODY SCREWS WITH ME I SCREW WITH THEM BACK!!!

I'M NOT REALLY TO HARD TO GET ALONG WITH BUT IF YOU START STIRRING IT WITH ME I'M RETURNING THE FAVOR!!!

I SAID:I BELIEVE YOUR BROTHER DONE THE RIGHT THING,(OTHER THAN THE 300 YARD RUNNING SHOT!!!)MISTAKES DO & WILL HAPPEN BUT WILL HAPPEN LESS WITHOUT BUCK FEVER!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF YOU'RE GONNA SHAKE IT OFF OR STIR IT WITH ME A LITTLE MORE,OH I FORGOT YOU'RE NOT TALKING TO ME ANYMORE,IT MUST BE A WAY OF DISCIPLINING ME!!!
 
nockpoint - its funny how you are directing your "hunting advice" at me. Read it again, it was my brother who shot the elk. I didnt even take a shot at it.

Ok here are your variables

He has one day a year to hunt, he is a very good marksman, obviously, he drilled that elk. If he had more time to "hunt" I am sure he would "hunt" like you suggested. So yeah he is going to shoot at one 300 yards running, not a problem for him, maybe it is for you.

Oh I forgot

OMG, after reading your response to my post, I just had to reply.

Now where were we, now answer these questions.
Have you ever "hunted" with me?
Do you know how many animals I have passed on because it was a bad shot, to far, to thick, whatever the case may be?
I have killed 3 elk and 2 deer, could have had several more, but I, like you, like to "hunt" them. They have all been within 100 yards and out of the 5 animals, I have shot 6 times. If I had shot more than that at that close of distance I better practice more.
So you can take your comments...

"Hunting is not target practice"
"Hunting is not a long shot competition."
"Hunting isnt your buddies patting you on the back or how cool you think you are for killing something running at 300plus yards."
"Try actually hunting the animal and clearly identify your target next time.."

and all the other "advice" and give them to someone else.
Thanks for the post though, just next time, "Try actually knowing the persons hunting habits and clearly identify his habits and hunting skills" before you run your mouth.
 
Definately not trying to "discipline" you bobcat. I have read many of your post and realized that it isnt worth going the rounds with you. Your comments contribute nothing good to the hunters who post pictures or comments. You are the one who likes to "stir" things up with people. Is that all you have to do all day long? Make rude and derogatory comments to guys who just want to get on here and show some pics and their hunting story? Maybe you need to find a chat room on yahoo and start a debate there. You must like the attention, obvioulsy I am responding to you again, otherwise you would just let guys make their comments and show their pics and be gald they had fun out there hunting. There is nothing you are going to say that is going to chance the way we hunt or our ethics or whatever is pissing you off at the moment. Hope fully, for the rest of us, you will realize that your comments are hollow and contribute nothing to the rest of us.
I know you are going to have to say something in response to this, there is no way in HE** you can just take it. So we will all be waiting to see what childish, dumb comment you are going to make this time.

Talk to you soon bobby!
 
There is no excuse for shooting without knowing for sure that it is legal! A 300 yard shot at a running bull, or any other big game is asinine, period! The Game cop and Judge did the right thing by not giving him a break. A law was broken due to neglegence, plain and simple. It sounds like the only lesson that was learned was not to call it in if it happened again. The first thought should have been to make absolutely sure that he didnt make such a stupid error in judgement again. We all do stupid stuff, just nut up, be a man and own up to it instead of making excuses!

yotewalk.gif


Eric
 
My Father and Grandfather both drilled me that shooting a running elk always ended with trouble one way or another. Seems to be true. Besides, 300 and running is pretty much stupid. mtmuley
 
WELL rumple

ONE MINUTE YOU'RE NEVER TALKING TO ME AGAIN & THE NEXT MINUTE YOU WANT A REPLY SOON!!!

YOU STARTED THE BULLSHIT WITH ME,I DON'T GET MAD BUT I DO RETURN FAVORS!!!

ALOT OF MM MEMBERS CALLING YOUR BROTHER STUPID,I DON'T SEE YOU JUMPING ON THEM???

I'M NOT CALLING HIM STUPID,HE MADE A MISTAKE & NOW MUST PAY HIS DUES & I CAN TELL YOU DON'T LIKE IT!!!

I STATE THE TRUTH,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT!!!

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME & ALOT OF OTHERS IS I'LL TELL YOU THE WAY IT IS,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT!!!

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING I STATED ABOUT ATV'S OR WHAT,IT REALLY DON'T MATTER I GUESS,WHAT IS IT THATS BOTHERING YOU???

HAVE I EVER SAID ANYTHING BAD ABOUT ANYBODY'S PICTURES???

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN HANDLE A LITTLE RAZZING,IF YOU CAN'T YOU'D BETTER COWBOY-UP CUPCAKE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING YOU'D BETTER GO BACK TO THAT CHAT ROOM YOU WERE IN BEFORE YOU SHOWED UP HERE OR TUFFEN UP A LITTLE!!!
 
rumple,
The funny thing with this whole post is that in your opening post you stated "My brother shot it at over 300 yards running, not a chance in he** he would have been able to tell that it was not a spike." ENOUGH SAID!!!! You said it in your own words, that there was not a chance in he** so why even shoot????? Do you think there is a chance in he** that the warden even believed what your were telling him???... If there is any question, let alone a chance in he**, I ask again, why shoot??????
Moral of story: Running, 300 yards, no chance in he**...DO NOT SHOOT!..
I commend him for standing up to the fact that he made a mistake and calling it in, but looks pretty clear to me as to why it happened..
 
I think your brother got off really easy. A few years back 2 of my cousins were hunting a late cow elk hunt. The one cousin ended up shooting a cow. Anyway, game warden shows up with some cops and put on a big scene. Come to find out, the written boundary and map boundaries conflicted. Yeah, they were wrong to an extent to shoot. To make a long story short, they tried to suspend their hunting priveleges for life, yeah you heard me right, life! They hired an attorney and won the case. But still had to pay legal fees. Sorry for the rant.
 
I grew up with the saying, know your target. I used to hunt a 4 pt or better deer area when I was younger. No way would I have cracked off a 300 yard shot at a running animal without knowing what was in front of me. Sorry, no slack here, the ticket was deserved...
 
All I would say is that you must always verify your target before shooting. You brother obviouly knew that a 2x2 was not legal and therefore should have verified that it was a legal bull before shooting. Could he have seen that exra point at 300 yards running? Probably not. Is that a valid excuse? Absolutely not!

He did the right thing by turning himself in, and should have expected no less than the appropriate legal ramifications that he recieved.

Live and learn. I'll bet he looks closer next time.
 
My first season I shot a doe on accident. There was a group of about 10 bucks about 75 yards away. They kept criss crossing each other. My dad said to keep up with the last one as he was straying a bit. Well I followed the buck until he was about 15 or 20 feet behind the others. Shot and it was a doe. Honest mistake. I saw antlers, we were suprised that the whole group was bucks, I remember my dad whispering that. 1 doe and about 10 bucks ? What are the odds. I was 14, excited as hell, buck fever. We knew the area warden and he wasn't too upset and just gave us a get out of jail free card also. He used it more as a tool on what not to do. If I was 30 he might not have been so kind. I felt bad about it. Lost my desire to hunt for a while. Mistakes happen. I think everyone should drop the holier than thou crap. On the other hand you broke the law. The judge was harsh in my opinion but sometimes thats the price you pay. One word to bobcat. Your story is getting old, give it a break.
 
Like I was expecting another pointless,immature post from bobcat. I guess we can never expect anything different, and you couldnt come up with anuthing better to end your post with anything better than that? Come up with something original next time.
To be honest with you it doesnt bother as much as all of you think it does. Yeah I feel like the fine should have been a little less, but I didn't lose any sleep being pissed off about the ticket.

polarbear - wow, i guess the rest of us need to become a perfect hunter like you. he did nut up and take the consequence. like i said a 300 yard running shot must be hard for you ploarbear, but for us it is not a problem.

mtmuley - so I guess youll never take a shot at an animal 330+ yards when it is running. What if it was a 380 bull or 30 inch buck?

antlerrick - you might have a point there, your comment made me think more about it and I guess you could go either way. If you are more conservative dont shoot and make for damn sure that it is legal, if your not that conservative shoot and hope that it is.

woodruffhunter - your cousins are lucky, I think that if the map they had showed that they were in the boundaries then the wardens and cops should have taken it easier on them. depends on who you are dealing with in the law.

TripleBB - I agree the ticket was deserved, but I guess you and I disagree on whether or not the fine should have been less. what we saw in front of us was a spike elk, no question in our mind, different story when you get to it and there are two small 1-2 inch kickers.

utahheadgear - I agree you should always verify your target and we thought we had, it was just a mistake, people make them all the time.

In my opinion there are people here who think that they will never make a mistake hunting, and when other people confess to making mistakes they can do nothing better than use name calling and pointless comments and boy would I like to be there when they do make a mistake hunting and see how they are going to react.
You need to be ethical and make sure you are being legal in all cases. When it comes to ethics we can definately see that everybodies ethicals is set at different levels.

...and bobcat if you really are hard pressed for someone to debate with and have a name calling and insult contest against, I can hold my own so if you have NOTHING better to do than continue to prove how immature you are, thats fine, lets go. Because it seems to me that you take every comment personal, so we can have a little slugfest, I will do it for fun and laughs and you can keep doing it because you are taking the insults personal. I'm sure that you will try and make yourself feel better by trying to come up with more and more derogatory comments and putdowns, by the way are you really just this way or is it just the people you hang around?
 
Thanks for the post BigSmooth - I appreciate the story. I agree with everything you said.

and bobcat, sorry to disappoint you but I hvae chagned my mind, Im not going to have a insult slugfets with you. Ive decided to keep my integrity and stay on a more mature level than you.

...cant wait to here what you are going to say about that! :)
 
a 1" point is near impossible to identify under many good circumstances, that is nuts. The law needs to be changed if that is the case. Even at 100 yards it would be easy to miss an odd 1" point in a big spike.
 
One other thing I want to add. How does anyone know what kind of shot rumples brother is ? A lot of people pass bs and say they shoot 1/8" groups at 700 yards. I practice at 100, standing, kneeling, prone. I am comfortable out to 300 under the right conditions. I would never shoot at a running animal but if you are acomplished at long ranges then go ahead. Was this animal trotting or full blown head back flying ? If was trotting then I really have no problem. Half of these hunting videos have shots at trotting game.
 
Specific circumstances aside, in this case he did "break the law" and was both ticketed and lost the elk as his reward for doing the right thing...

That said the law that was broken is specifically in place to remove yearling bull elk from the herd as part of a herd management strategy. I believe that with some "laws" like this that game departments should try to use a little more discretion in their enforcement of the law especially when dealing with honest hunters trying to do the right thing. Sure there needs to be a bench mark for an antler restriction law, but I believe their should be some leeway when it comes to the enforcement.

Shooting a "spike" that happens to have an odd point or two is in fact achieving the bioligist's objective for the herd, which is typically why those restrictions are in place. In this case the dept. gets to achieve their management goals and their financial goals at the same time when it relly isn't necessary.

Last year, I had a buddy in Washington (where they have a 3 point minimum restriction for Muley bucks) look over a huge bodied buck for quite some time. That deer was around 25 or 26 inches wide, heavy deep forks but still just a giant old fork horn... that restriction is not in place to protect that buck, but it does and he of course had to let the big buck walk. We discussed the fact that if he'd have mistakenly shot the buck that he'd probably still have gotten ticketed even though the "law" isn't designed to protect that particular deer...
 
I guess I should have clarified that, the elk was trotting, not on a full blown run.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-05 AT 02:14PM (MST)[p]
Rumple
You are speaking out of your a$$ if you think that I couldnt hit a running bull at 300 yds. If you had any idea about my history you would eat your words. I was not questioning his marksmanship, just his judgement. Shooting at a running or trotting animal at 300 yds is irresponsible, period! Even if it was a 400 class bull, I would not have taken such a risky and low percentage shot. I also was not making a personal attack on him, as you have done with myself and several others. I just shows you lack of reasoning. You have been doing nothing but making excuses for him and attacking anyone who dissagrees with you. I realize that he made a mistake and owns up to it, but the fact still remains that the shot should have not been executed!
yotewalk.gif


Eric
 
People

Nobody should listen to a person who has a wolf on their reply screen. I'm not making a personal attack on you or anything but if a 400 hundred class is on the trot at 300 plus I have a feeling you would take a shot or two. Dont give us the holier than thou routine.

elking
 
My thoughts exactly elking. If Eric thinks that he wouldnt take a shot at a 400 class bull trotting at 300 yards, hes flat out lying. He has probably never seen a 400 class bull to see how big they are, thats why he made the ridiculous comment he did.

So tell me Eric, since I am speaking out of my a**, if you are so confident about hitting a moving aniaml at 300+ yards, why are you so against doing it? If you can hit an animal like that then obviously you practice that shot, or else you wouldnt be so confident and tell me that I am speaking out of my a** when saying you couldnt. So if you are that confident and obviously practing a shot like that, do you anticpate on ever doing it on the hunt? If not then why do you practice it? If you don't practice that type of shot, how can you be so confident about your marksmanship? Who's speaking out of who's a**? Think through your posts a little before you make them, otherwise you look stupid. As far as risky and low percentage, maybe in your terms, but not ours. And if you think it is such a low percentage shot, and risky, where does your confidence and marksmanship come into play in saying that I am speaking out my a** when I say that you cant do that. You have some explaining to do on your thinking cuz it is messed up.
Take my comments for what they are, if you think they are excuses, fine. I dont. Should that shot have been executed? Yes, hes a very good shot and I have no problem with he nor I taking a shot like that, if the circumstances permit.
 
This post cracks me up!!

I love how everyone here is the "perfect" hunter. I hope that all of you who would never shoot at a moving animal and who feel 300 yards is too far only BOWHUNT. Because that would be the only ethical thing to do.

I hunt public land in Utah every year and I don't think I've ever seen a standing/feeding buck. Every buck I've killed has been pushed to me by countless other hunters as I hunt the escape routes. I don't even shoot stationary targets when sighting in my rifle, I shoot jackrabbits, most of which are 200-300 yards out and running full bore.

My point is--if he can make the shot, do it. Just because some of you wouldn't take that shot doesn't mean it's unethical. That's the beauty of ethics, they differ with everyone. If someone doesn't subscribe to your personal ethical code, too bad.

Have your brother carry a file with him next time and just file off those little points.

Some of you guys must think that "Beyond Belief" is the antichrist.
 
Wow, that was almost coherent. Dude, you have no idea who you are running you 3rd grade yapper to. How many 3" groups at over 700 yards have you shot? Didnt think so. How many p&y bulls and bucks have you taken? Legally? Didnt think so. No, I am not "holier than thou", just not willing to take a dumb as$ pot shot. And no I absolutely would not take a shot at running bull of ANY class!!!!! Because you have no self control yourself, do not call me a liar! I was brought up better than that. I spent many years on various rifle, pistol and archery teams honing my skills and discipline. I refuse to compromize a shot due to haste. I realize that to someone such as yourself that self control and pride in accuracy are not factored into your decision making process when hunting (or apparently any where else) but it is for me. As far as animals, well my trophy room speaks for itself. Every single animal taken with one, single, well placed shot.
Have a nice day
yotewalk.gif


Eric
 
I just have one question for POLARBEAR--I guess I can assume that you only take one bullet with you on your hunt?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-05 AT 04:02PM (MST)[p]No, you assume wrong. I might have a chance at a cougar, bobcat, coyote, bear etc... Besides, I dont hunt modern firearm. Archery only. And no it has nothing to do with being ethical or not (I know more unethical archers than I do rifle hunters)it has to do with the timing of seasons and the thrill and challenge of getting within 40 yards of a critter and making a good clean shot without it even knowing you are there. And yes, I carry 5 arrows incase I run across other in-season critters that I might want to harvest as well as my main target.
yotewalk.gif


Eric
 
the elk in question was probably the same age class as the spike being pulled out of the area ,but a judge does not know this ,unfourtunatly it sounds like the game warden probably did not realize it either. so i understand the rules are the rules.
but what was set out to be acomplished was acomplished. I know a guy that was hunting elk in utah and shot a moose! turned himself in and was givin a minor fine???? the difference was probably all in who was the judge. anyone who has ever been in a divorce or custody battle knows how screwed a system can be simple depending on who the judge is.
 
The elk wasn't legal, the shot doesn't matter, your buddy did the right thing by calling the warden. Stop whining and pay the bill. That's life.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
FROM RUNNING TO TROTTING? Soon the bull will be at a dead stop and his brother made a bad shot anyway. No, rumple, I wouldn't shoot at a running/trotting animal at 300+ no matter how big. (how ya gonna score it anyhow at that distance?) I happen to have an extremely accurate flat shooting rifle also. Your bro messed up, and you are too by trying to make yourself feel better with your story. Stay home if this is a problem for you. mtmuley
 
How many people REALLY KNOW how far 300 yards is? I continue to read posts about people who claim to kill these animals 300, 400, 500 yards! It is extremely difficult to judge distance when in the field for one. Try pacing off 300 yards starting at the corner of a city block if ya haven't done that before. I'd be willing to guess that 95% of the people would say its MUCH longer than it seems. I did. Then pace off 500 yards...haha 500 yards is ridiculous. From my experience, my personal opinion is that anything nearing 300 yards or more is not an ethical shot and should not be attempted now matter how big the animal. I'm not claiming that I haven't attempted that 300 yard shot before...I have in my younger less experienced years and it's not worth taking.
 
Rumple..


First things first, if there is ever a question on what an animal is then "DONT SHOOT", second you guys are to be commended for turning yourselves in, that's awesome. As far as the comments about not turning yourself in again, thats BS. If you brother is the most ethical hunter, then despite the outcome of his first time, if it were to happen again then he should turn himself in again.

Always, Always be sure of your target. Especially at long distances. Those 300+ shots can be tough to judge, especially on a dead run.

Im saying kudos to you for calling DWR, Im saying that you should have been 100% sure that it was a spike, and Im saying excuses are like a$$ - holes, everyone has one and most of them stink. Shame on you guys for pulling the trigger on something that it sounds like you were "kind of" unsure about.

Hunt Safe, Hunt Sure, and the rest is in the books.

MM79
 
Can Polarbears walk on water that isn't frozen? just wondering!

I don't believe half the people on here that say they wouldn't shoot at any animal at 300+ yards. I have killed 5 elk at 300-400 yards, and all have been one shot kills. Am i an exceptional marksman? hell no. But i do know where my rifle hits at those ranges. With my 300win mag I don't even need to hold high at 300yds. Most of the animals that I have killed have been within 100yds with my muzzleloader, but give me a shot with a high powered rifle at 300 yds and i will take it.
I killed a spike elk last year with my muzzleloader at 70yds. It had 2 points on one side. I had to look twice before I knew it was legal.
All in all he did the right thing. It could happen to anyone. I would say get off his back
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-05 AT 12:05PM (MST)[p]Once again, someone reading what they want and disregarding the rest. The issue is shooting at a RUNNING or TROTTING target at 300+ yards, not whether to take a shot at a still animal at that distance. Hell, I have shot coyotes at over 600 yds. But they were all at a stand still, not running. Also there is the issue of not knowing if a target is absolutely legal or not. All in all, he did not do the right thing. He was right to turn himself in. He WAS NOT RIGHT to shoot at an uncertain target that was running at a great distance. Because it could happen to anyone, doesn't make it right. It is just another sorry as$ excuse for not making absolutely sure of a target. Period.

Dead horse, up and running!
yotewalk.gif


Eric
 
Thanks again everybody for your posts and opinions, I still stand with mine.

polarbear - its surprising to see that you followed my last post, I didnt think you would be able to. First, eric, you answer your own questions and then Ill give you my answers, "3 inch group at 700 yards", etc, etc, etc. And yes by your comments you are coming across as holier than thou. I think the majority of us think you lying through your teeth not shooting at a bull of ANY class at that distance, BULL. See how easy you are to judge people, talking about other peoples self control and such. Wise up buddy, its becoming more and more clear who is talking out their a**. Let me rub your feet and pat you on the back, you sir, seem holier than thou and your comments back it up. So what is the farthest shot you will take with a bow? Because I know what distance I think is unethical with a bow, and I'll let you know when you reply. Maybe we will differ on that too, or maybe you will continue to think you are right in every situation and have all the right answers.

bowdaddi - thanks for the comments, once again I agree. For those of you who have misunderstood my opinion, polarbear, I will say it again. I think he deserved the ticket, but I was questioning the fine, thats all. Yes I think the judge should have taken into account all factors and made he decision on that.

D13er - No whining here, he paid the fine, I agree thats life sometimes you get burned and sometimes you dont. I still think he could have ended up with a lesser fine.

mymuley - man you are right, actually the elk ran right up to our truck and laid down. My brother slit his throat with his swiss army knife and cut off the extra 5 points on each side, and still got fined!!! Apparently in your world noone is allowed to give more detail to clear the story up. Why would you want to try and score a spike at all? No, I dont believe you when you say that you wouldnt take a shot at any bull over 300 yards. Not trying to make myself feel better here, I never felt bad, I didnt get the ticket. My whole point in posting this story was to show that people have different opinions and different levels of ehtics and morals, I think that has been proven by the many different posts. Im glad it accomplished this, now when people post stories and pics hopefully we can all lay off them for what (the commentor) believed they (the hunter) did or did not do right. But from the posts of certain individuals I can tell that that probably wont happen because it has shown they have to much pride or are to childish, or are to holier than thou to just let a guy post his story and let everyone enjoy it. Ill see you in the woods.

pj31178 - I agree, years ago I tried just that. I was way off on my guess, thats what made me work on being better at judging distances in the field. Now I am pretty darn close when I have to guess, at 300 yards we have our rifles dead on and so that shot, since we practice it all the time, is not a problem for us like it seems to be for other people. Maybe I'll feel like you when I am older, but for now, 300 yards IF THE CIRCUMSTANCES PERMIT, I'm shooting.
(I cant wait to see what comments I get for capitalizing, if the circumstances permit.)

MuleyMadman79 - First things first, there was no question in our mind, it was a spike that we were looking at. He might turn himself in again, but he might not. His trust in the DWR was shaken and he felt like he was taken a little on the fine.

elkantlers - thanks for the post, it seems like you are someone who is willing to let people have their own opinion and not label them or degrade them for making mistakes. We need more people like you around.

polarbear, again, - boy i really hit a hot button with you didnt i? things in your life going ok, or are you just pissed off at the world? How tall are you? You show me THE RULE, that says it is "WRONG" to shoot at an animal, running, at over 300 yards. Go to the proclamation, or wherever you need to and find the rule so I can look it up and then we can have a better discussion about this. But first you need to follow my directions closely, find that rule, but it cant saying anything about "uncertain" targets because we were certain when we were shooting, we made a mistake, you obviously dont.
You must not allow people to make mistakes in your world. OH thats right cuz you seem to be MR. Perfect when it comes to hunting, etc. So find that rule, that says that is "WRONG" and then we will talk.
Are you 7 years old and think that that running wolf makes your posts cooler than everybody elses?
 
Polarbear - by the way I have no P&Y trophies becuase I do not bow hunt, but I will glady compare trophy animal to trophy animal any day of the week.
 
Yo Rumple, what's with the push comes to shove bradda!!! This isn't a place to "duke" it out with your fella MM Bradda's. Sounds like your the one gettn all ticked off.

Step down, and stop your #####'n bud. It's ok for us to express our opinions and that exactly what Polarbear did. No need to start a heated discussion on the forums.. you wanna bash send him your email or take it to a parking lot. We talk huntn here and that's it. Tone 'er down bud. It's ok!!

If your this defensive, maybe the points that have been expressed from others has hit your buttons and you're feeling bad. Maybe not, but this aint a place to beef it out... You don't need to be opening up things for discussion if you don't wanna here what has to be said.

RELAX BUD!!
 
Yo, MM79 whats up in Compton? Anyway, I am just replying to his comments. He seems to be the one getting all pissed off, Im just having a little fun with him. If you have read all of his post you can see that he gets pretty vocal to anyones comments, so try sending him the "chill out" message. Why you defending him anyway bradda? I agree with you its fine for anyone to express their opinions here and Im glad that the fellow MM bradda's have been doing it. Thats why I posted this message, to show that everybody has a diffence of opinion and that we should all just lay off each other and be glad that we all enjoy the same sprot. Yeah maybe we do it differently or have different ideas of how it should be done, but none the less we are all "bradda's" in the great game of hunting. And we should be happy for each others successes. So where do you go "trippin" on my posts anyway bra?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-05 AT 05:49PM (MST)[p]MuleyMadman79
Believe me, the last thing he wants to do is take it out in the parking lot with me. This old farm boy would tear him into pieces so small that the hogs could'nt find him. Haaahhaaa...
Rumple
Once again you have proven yourself to be of questionable intellect and character. I can back up every statement that I have made with solid, indisputable proof. You have not pushed any button on me, other than pity or laughter. It is really sad that an individual such as yourself actually feels that you are coming across as anything but an idiot. I have had enough of your childishness and stupidity. Bring on the barrage of b.s. and cheap jabs and prove my point ever further.
Have a nice day

yotewalk.gif


Eric
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-05 AT 08:45PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-05 AT 08:39?PM (MST)

According to the Point Blank ballistics program, if the elk is at 300 yards running 15mph, the proper lead would be 7 feet.

If you misjudged the distance, and he was actually at 250 yards, the lead would be 5.7 feet. If you also misjudged the speed and he was actually running 25 mph, the lead would be 9.6 feet.

If he was actually at 350 yards, running 25 mph, the lead would be 13.8 feet, and the bullet would be 4 inches low.

This is for a .540 BC 180g .308 bullet at 3100 mv.

Figuring the vital area to be 16 inches diameter (generous, I think) the chances of guessing the speed, wind, and distance close enough to hit the vital area for a clean kill on a running elk at what's thought to be 300 yards are pretty small, even ignoring the wind factor and the lack of a perfect rest.

Draw whatever conclusions you will, but IMHO, that's a pretty sorry way to treat any game animal, trophy or not.
 
when there is lead in the air, there is hope......

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
Rumple..

I think you are hillarious. First of all you must have way to much time on your hands. Second of all, Im not from compton.. and your lame a$$ comebacks are getting old.

Why don't you go find yourself a new post to express your weak A$$, self righteous hunting opinions on... or, if you rather I could mail you a quarter and you could call someone that really wants to listen to your #####'n. BRA? What size do you wear anyway?
 
polarbear and muleymadman79 - you guys are in a class of your own, and not a very high one either, but you can go ahead and make the comments you do and prove how immature and eager you are to belittle people who have different opinions than you. I guess there are going to be people like you in this world that the rest of us have to put up with and ignore. That actually seems like the best idea right now, to ignore you guys because for some reason you seem to be enriched by being rude. Showing us your ture colors in every post you make. So continue to make post after post to me and anyone else you feel like degrading, we will have to put up with you. Besides its fun to see your true characters surface with each new comment you guys make.
I can see now that no matter how many replies I make you two will have nothing of value to contribute or even anything worth debating or talking about. Its useless with you two so I think that me and the rest of the MM members are just going to watch for your next post and the ones following to see how much more you prove to be like a child that has to be right and has to have the last word in and it has to be something to try and tear the other person down. Have fun with each other. So should I keep banging my head against the wall with you two and exchange useless comments that mean nothing and prove nothing? No I wont, but it will be fun to see what you have to say next.

org - thanks for the info, thats really interesting and it does make a good point that it would be really tough to make a good vital shot at that distance on any animal. I still am willing and will take them in the future though. Good info though, thanks.

D13er - I liked the quote.
 
should been carrying that hammer, to tide's up those small points for that spike only unit, Well that's what I been told by those local guys that how you only shoot spike's, those OTHER points must got broke during the rut.
 
Rumple ,
I agree Eric is a fat prick but also your ethical brother was an idiot for taking the shot give me a break.
 
Hey, that is Mr. Fat Prick to you! In your honor, I will remove the Texas flag from my boat and change the name Lone Star, to Brown Star. It is a good thing that I pulled it out today to paint the hull, replace zincs and screws. Now I can re-name it as well. Thanks for the inspiration!
yotewalk.gif


Eric
 
>should been carrying that hammer, to
>tide's up those small points
>for that spike only unit,
>Well that's what I been
>told by those local guys
>that how you only shoot
>spike's, those OTHER points must
>got broke during the rut.
>

Hate to admit it, but I was thinking the same thing.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
PAL, you state that this law is in place to eliminate yearling bulls from the herd, is that the only purpose for this law ?

I think because of this law, yearling bulls with extra horns as this bull was, are in most cases (not this time) exempt from being culled their first year, I think the result over time in a herd, should promote trash genetics, IE. got trash = free pass.

Something else to consider.
 
HOWDY THERE B_F_E_!!!

YOU SURE ARE A TRASHY ######D!!!

TALKIN TRASH ALL THE TIME,LOL!!!

NOW HERES WHERE I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SPIKE ONLY UNITS!!!

IF YOU HAD A HEARD OF DOMESTIC CATTLE/SHEEP/GOATS/ETC & ONLY KILLED ALL THE YEARLINGS WOULD THE HERD EVER IMPROVE???

IMO THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH AN ELK TO LIVE PAST AGE 1-1/2!!!

OH,SO YOU DON'T THINK SOME OF THESE 400 CLASS TROPHY BULLS WERE YOUNG & SMALL ANTLERED ONCE???

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!!!

IT'S NOT A BAD THING TO SEE A SMALLER BUCK/BULL DOING THE BREEDING AS LONG AS THAT BULL/BUCK IS PACKING THE GENETICS!!!

KILLING THEM AT AGE 1-1/2,HOW IN THE HELL IS THAT CULLING THE HERD,KILLING THEM BEFORE YOU HAVE A CLUE OF WHAT THE BUCK/BULL MIGHT OF BEEN???

NOW I'M NOT A ROCKET SCIENTIST YOU ALL KNOW THAT,BUT THINK ABOUT IT!!!

I'M NOT DIRECTING ALL THIS AT YOU B_F_E_,YOU WOULDN'T BE A B_F_E_(BIG FRICKEN ELK!!!)IF YOU HADN'T LIVED THIS LONG!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING WHO THE HELL CAME UP WITH THIS SPIKE ONLY BULLCRAP TO START WITH,WAIT A MINUTE ITS COMMING BACK TO ME,OH YA NOW I REMEMBER WHO'S BATTLE PLAN IT WAS!!!
 
org those are very good points, i have never had the cold hard data but that shows how tough it is to make such a shot. I have no doubt there are guys who can but they are few and far between. I do not like to take walking shots at 50 yards, and unless the game is already hit I no longer do.
 
WAA WAA WAA, man I am such I whiner arent I. Lets see what more could I whine about. Oh, you guys are being mean to me, now stop it and be nice. You are hurting my feelings, Im not as good as you guys are at giving insults and demeaning people.

Hmmm lets see, yep, what I just said is as much bs as everything you guys are saying. You guys just wont grow up, just like little kids the more you try and tell them to grow up and be "big boys" the more they feel they need to show how they really are. I will say that you guys (polarbear, d13er, rimrock, desertflinger) are doing a great joba at showing the nation members of MM how mature you guys are when dealing with other people. Lets see ethical but immature... winning combination.

Gator - say that one more time, a few of us here didnt quite catch what you were trying to say

desertflinger - good pics, the simpsons are funny

polarbear - thats probably where you learned to interact with others, from the simpsons right erica?

republicoftexas - i think we should keep egging on erica and the others and let them shoot themselves in the foot with all their useless and stupid comments.

erica - some of the things you say, i dont even know what point you are trying to get across, or is it just pointless comments? yeah pointless comments, thanks for the humor though.

d13er - dont know what else to say to you, you are doing a good enough job yourself, do you and erica have sleepovers and "think" of the next thin to say on MM the next day? i hope you have better things to do with your time.


bobby - i do think you have a point when you ask if a herd will improve if all the young ones are shot.

donv - i agree those are very good points that org made. makes you think about how hard it actually is to be a good shot. maybe thats why the others are complaining because they cant make the shot and so therefore have to say others are unethical who can make it and do take those shots. (i cant wait to here what they have to say about this post!)


im laughing when i say this but bring your best, im ready. It will be hard to compete with you guys though i will admit. because how can you have a comback to something so stupid and up in the air that it makes no sense and has no point. but i will do my best, sorry if i cant become as immature as some of you other guys!
 
As I said, draw your own conclusions. Here's mine:

The shot as described depends almost entirely on luck. To make it consistently, one would have to have a built in rangefinder in one eye, a wind meter in the other, and a perfectly memorized ballistics chart in his mind. Then he'd have to hold perfectly steady (even though he'd be shooting at a moving target probably offhand). Just misjudging the speed by 10 MPH and/or distance by 50 yards would result in a gutshot or blowing off the jaw...or missing.

I wonder how many gutshot or injured elk die days after some sharpshooter tries an impossible shot at way less than 300 yards.

Those who laugh at "ethics" either don't have any or don't understand that there's more to hunting than killing something, no matter how big a "trophy" it is. But then I guess that's the same thing, isn't it?

Last post on this, I'm not getting into a pi$$ing match.

org

>donv - i agree those are
>very good points that org
>made. makes you think about
>how hard it actually is
>to be a good shot.
>maybe thats why the others
>are complaining because they cant
>make the shot and so
>therefore have to say others
>are unethical who can make
>it and do take those
>shots. (i cant wait to
>here what they have to
>say about this post!)
>
>
>im laughing when i say this
>but bring your best, im
>ready. It will be hard
>to compete with you guys
>though i will admit. because
>how can you have a
>comback to something so stupid
>and up in the air
>that it makes no sense
>and has no point. but
>i will do my best,
>sorry if i cant become
>as immature as some of
>you other guys!
 
Holy cow, I have come to this conclusion after reading all the btchin and arguing just for the sake of arguing that Rumples brother was indeed out on his hunt with his sister. No man in his right mind could ever do that much complaining over something that has been over for days.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-05 AT 06:32PM (MST)[p]Haahaaa.... Isnt it odd that the very person that is calling others immature is the one that started with the insults and continues to call names and act exactly as he claims others are? Rumple (notice that I havent stooped to your level and made childish fun of your name) maybe you should read the posts and actually see how many folks dissagree with your line of thinking (or lack of) and how many agree. If you are able to figure it out, the vast majority are not on your side. I guess that most of us on this site (especially those of us that have been here for years) are a bunch of immature idiots. Oh well, at least I am in better company. Haaahaaa... Oh by the way, I know that I am immature, but I at least admit it.
Here is a little something to help with your "problems"

th_vag.jpg


th_pamp.jpg


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Eric
 
come on Erica, are you coming to bed ???

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
I've got 110 head of cattle to feed and I'll be right there sugar! It is cold and blustery out tonight, so I think some "spoonin'" may be in order!
yotewalk.gif


Eric
 
If you tried to slide a knife blade between Polarbear and D13er, you'd cut them both! LOL

I once dropped 9 geese (brant) with one shot while brant hunting in Morro Bay, CA. I had 6 dead and three cripples. The limit was four!

The warden, and later the judge, explained that I was responsible for whatever happens when I pull the trigger. And they were right. It cost me my shotgun and $550. What I did was totally by accident, but I still pulled the trigger.

If somebody accidentally kills a branch antlered elk with a spike tag, it doesn't matter if it was 5 yards or 500 yards, you pulled the trigger. You are responsible. Take what you get and try to learn from it.

Steve
 
Hey rumple, Been gone awhile hunting. Didn't take any 300 yard shots either. Me and my hunting bud took a 175 class buck, and I still have my tag. BUT, I have taken and made many shots over 300 yards. The longest being an antelope at a lasered 686. I hit him twice. Every time I attempted these long shots, the game was unaware of me and calm. The question here isn't yardage, but human error. Your brother is a human, and he made an error. Mellow out. All of us have made bad judgement calls at one time or another. Trying to justify a bad error, especially here at MM, is another error. mtmuley
 
I think a lot of these posters need to get off of their high-horse. How many of you have ever missed a shot? If you have, isn't that an unethical shot? If you didn't kill the animal it was probably a shot you shouldn't have taken. Maybe all of you hunters being so critical of rumples brother have never missed a shot. OK, has anybody in your group ever missed a shot? Are you this critical of them? I hope so. As far as not being a spike-did he make a mistake? Yes. Should he pay for it? probably. should he pay $400 for a mistake he immediately reported? Kind of steep IMO.
Compare rumple's brother to a hunter who takes an unadvised shot and wounds an animal which is never found and later dies. There is no fine imposed for the second one and IMO that's a whole lot worse situation. Its kind of funny that i see people get on this and other hunting sites and talk about the one they hit but couldn't find and they don't get half as much flack as this guy.
 
mtmuley
> The
>longest being an antelope at
>a lasered 686. I hit
>him twice.
>Every time I attempted these long shots, the game was unaware of me and calm. The question here isn't yardage, but human error.

The other question is....Why didn't you try and stalk closer so you only needed one shot?
IMHO you are being selfish. Did you take those asinine shots so you could brag on here or to your buddies?
 
HERES MY QUESTION!!!

WILL rumples BROTHER MAKE THE MISTAKE AGAIN,WHO KNOWS???

IF HE DOES,WILL HE CALL THE DWR AGAIN,I'LL BET MONEY HE WON'T!!!

WILL HE GET THRASHED ON MM IF HE MAKES ANOTHER UN-ETHICAL SHOT,YES HE WILL!!!

IF HE KEEPS SHOOTING AT ELK THAT ARE RUNNING AT 300 YARDS,YES HE'LL WOUND ONE SOONER OR LATER & THE ANIMAL WILL ROT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING ABOUT THE TIME I WALKED UPON A GUY TRYING TO BREAK THE BRANCH OFF A SPIKE X 3!!!
 
Thanks for all the replies. Isn't this fun to have such a great discussion going on!
Ok I guess I wasnt clear enough in my last post, so I will give you guys my OPINION in the story.
First I'll respond to all your posts -

org - the information you give is fascinating, just wondering where you get it all from? With what you are saying, yes it seems near impossible to make a good shot on any animal in that situation. Do alot of hunters take shots like that, or even farther (686 yards), yes they do. 686 seems like to far of a shot for me, but once again that is my OPINION. If mymuley can hit an antelope that far, vital shot, majority of the time then take it. Some people i.e. polarbear, by all his comments, would say that that is an unethical shot, to far away. As for me it all depends. No, I wont get in a pissing match with you, I dont even know why I bother with the others, something to do in between appointments I guess. You gave good info and thanks for it.And when I said "I am laughing, but bring your best.." in was in refence to the other guys not you.

bobcats - hmmmm no sister there. but funny remark. Yeah this whole post is dragging on with no point and just stupid useless posts back and forth between children.

polarbear - I was hoping you were going to catch the sarcasim. Yeah I am acting like you, how funny. See how it makes you react. Yeah I can be immature too at times, but boy oh boy you are another story. I think the vast majority are saying "Should he have taken the shot, probably not' (I dont necessarily agree)_, 'should he have gotten ticketed, yes' ( I agree), 'should he have been fined, yes' (I agree again, but I think that the people involved could have taken into account the situation and that he was man enough to turn himself in, is there no reward for being so honest and having integrity? 'did he do the right thing by turning himself in, yes' ( I agree)." But it makes no sense to keep discussing it with you, you seem to get the facts twisted an see it in your own special way so... I guess I wont go any further with you on the subject.

eelgrass - I agree when you pull the trigger you are responsible for what happens, hopefully you ahve judged it enough and prepared enough to make it happen right. Mistakes happen and when the goog guy shows integrity by doing the right thing, after the mistake, I wondered. In other stories you can see that when the good guy did the right thing the law "rewarded him". I agree take what you get and learn from it.

mtmuley - congrats on the buck. Well, I dont feel like I am trying to justify it, maybe Im coming across that way, Trust me Im mellow, but I do have a question for you on human error. IMO If I think that taking a shot at 686 yards is an error and you dont who's right and who's wrong?

bugle_man - thanks for the post. Everything you said, I strongly agree. Am I going to take an unethical shot sometime in my life, probably. Is everyone else here at MM, most likely. Its all in the eye of the guy who takes the shot.

bobcatbess - good to hear from you!
Will my brother make that mistake again - like you say its possible. Its possible for anyone to make mistakes.

Will he call the DWR again - well I talk to him the other day about this and he said yes he would. He makes a mistake and he will man up. I thought that was pretty good of him and decided to follow his good example. I know that about 1 million posts ago on this subject I said I probably wouldnt turn myself in with a mistake like that, well after talking to him I would, hes a good guy. But will I still take a shot 300plus yards,depends on how big hte animal is, if hes big enough then yes.
Will he get thrashed on by MM members again - you bet he would. There will be no story posted on MM that someone is not going to call something the hunter or his hunting party did questionable. And then the different opinions start coming out, and insults and wow we have a post like this one again. Is this the longest post anyone has seen on MM by the way? What is the longest?
Will he wound one sooner or later taking shots like that - yeah I think he would wound one too.

pj31178 - good questions lets see what mtmuley has to say.

Thanks again for all the post, information, stories, pics, opinions and hurt feelings haha, hopefully somewhere down the line someone got something out of all this!
 

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