Ethical? Utah Winter Range Bulls

K

ktc

Guest
The do-gooders here should answer this question. Ethically of course.

The late hunts were added to the Utah elk line up last year for opportunity. The idea here was to have a lower percent success rate with fewer large bulls harvested.

Every year Moss gets his butt dragged through the mud because the sportman tag holder shoots his bull on the winter range. The ethics patrol cries foul long and hard.

So, the late hunts failed to meet their objectives. The biggest bulls were shot on winter range and success was pushing 100%. Sounds like a shoot and not a hunt.

Is it ethical for me to put in and hunt the winter range on the Pahvant? Will my trophy be less of a trophy because I did not shoot it during the rut? One guy told me this was a girl's hunt. Will you guys think I am a puss for shooting a winter range bull? Or, can I beat my chest and grunt like Tarzan?

Tell me. How many are NOT putting in for these unethical winter range slaughter-house tags? My wife is. She is a girl though.;-)
 
Oh, to the contrary Deerlove. Most bulls looked pretty well put together that I saw. Broken horns were not an issue. I thought it would be, but NOT!
 
You justed joined the crowd, Silly girls Bulls are for BOYS. Get me the tag and I will get in touch with my girlie side.
 
Its not fair because you didnt hunt them during the rut?? BS!! Maybe Im just taking crazy pills, but hunting Elk during the rut=not the hardest thing in the world!!!!! A late season hunt is so dependant on the weather. That right there makes it challenging enough. I say go for it, and if anybody gives ya any crap, run em over with the Dodge!! Then I'll hit with the Ford!!! Lets see how much smack they talk then!! Go for it, man. And take me with you.......
 
antlershed

I PREDICTED BUSTED UP BULLS,I WAS WRONG!!!

I PREDICTED SUB 350" BULLS, I WAS WRONG!!!

I PREDICTED DM TO SUCK,I WAS WRONG!!!

I PREDICTED THE LATE HUNT TO BE A HARD HUNT,IT WAS LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL,I WAS WRONG!!!

THE ONLY bobcat TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!!!
 
We have some class acts here in Washington shooting elk every year out of the feed stations. That's a real tough hunt!
 
Nothing like stirring up a little contraversy! If you ask me, hunting rutting bulls for 2 weeks with rifle is not exactly a sound management strategy unless tags are severely limited (like they are in Utah). If I'm not mistaken, Utah added the late hunt last year and took a small portion of the total tags away from the early hunts (in most units). I believe overall total rifle tag numbers only increased slightly in most units with the idea that a late season would offer more opportunity for rifle hunters.

I don't know all the facts but have heard some of the late season hunts were not very productive. You may want to ask anyone that drew late season tags on the Dutton, Boulder, San Juan, or Fish Lake what they thought!

I've hunted the late rifle seasons here in Colo for years and it is a lot tougher locating bulls when they aren't bugling and you have to cover a lot of terrain to find them in their hidden pockets. Bulls in Nov here in Colo tend to leave the cows and head off into seclusion by themselves. Deep snow can limit access and make it difficult to cover much country. I imagine most late season hunts didn't have much in the way of snow this year in UT and it was fairly easy to cover lots of country?
 
jims

THE LATE HUNT WAS LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL,SO TO SPEAK!!!

MASSIVE BULLS & WAY BETTER THAN THE RIFLE HUNT!!!

THE WEATHER WAS GOOD(TOO GOOD!!!)EVERYBODY WAS WORRIED ABOUT BROKEN TINES INCLUDING MYSELF,THE GUY'S I KNOW THAT HAD TAGS BOASTED THE BEST HUNT THEY'D EVER BEEN ON!!!

MOST GUY'S HAVE BEEN REAL QUIET ABOUT THE LATE HUNT,THEY'LL NOW PUT THERE WIVES,KIDS,COUSINS,NEPHEWS,NIECES,GRANDPA'S,GRANDMOTHERS,GREAT GRANMOTHERS & MAYBE THEIR 12,13,14 YEAR OLD KIDS IN HOPEING TO PULL ANOTHER PERMIT,WHAT THEY SEEN ON THE LATE BULL HUNT WILL NOT LEAVE THEIR HEADS ANYTIME SOON!!!

I DON'T KNOW WHO TOLD YOU THE LATE HUNTS WEREN'T VERY GOOD BUT YOU OUGHT TO SEE THE BULLS THAT WERE TAKEN!!!

THE ONLY bobcat HOPEING TO PULL ONE OF THE LATE (KNOWN AS JUNK PERMITS BY MOST!!!)PERMITS IN 06!!!
 
I agree with about everything said. I think it is a double standard to blast one guy for hunting the winter range while everyone else who draws this tag is doing about the same thing.

I am taking advantage of this hunt or atleast the better half is. I think about every one here is to because nobody is talking about it. I think people are hoping this thread and subject goes away soon. The odds gurus think no one on the face of the planet can use a computer and see the great draw odds on these hunts. They are thinking, Wow! I can draw with 8 points. Not! These hunts are going to get hammered by applicants this year because these girl hunts were so productive.

No one wants to answer the question. Who is not putting in for these hunts for ethical reasons? Lots of ethical folks around here who hate sportsman tags.
 
How come the Nevada bulls in Nov were busted up in the units my buddies hunted, but the Ut elk were fine?? Ktc I have no problem with sportsman tags, it's the other 200 wealth tags that are a joke. See SFW.
 
I'm a GIRLY MAN with 10 points, and I'm gonna draw this YEAR!!!!

Makes you wonder if this may be the year to put in for the premium tags though, or early???? Sounds like every other girly man is going to put in for a the new and improved late girly man hunt.

The only bad thing is I'd MUCH rather be hunting rutting muleys that time of year, but it's time to get this stinking Utah elk hunt over with!!!!!
 
Mrs. Prism,

I would not be making plans just yet with 10 points. What area Mrs. Prism? I do not think that 13 points will guarantee a late Pahvant tag.

I will be making plans with 13 and 12.;-) Maybe.

I have a degree in MM psychiatry. No one wants to talk about the late hunt, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DOING IT! Every body else with 10 points has the same idea.

Not me. I am doing any weapon during the rut with a long bow.;-) To get the full effect of "hunting harder."

Another question, How many want to hurry and draw any where the odds look good to get through the system before the age objectives ruin it? Lets kill all of those bulls dying of old age on the winter range!

:):):):)
 
Hell, I even got another question. I am full of them today.

Who thinks that the DWR will trim late tags to fix the problem of not meeting objectives of added opportunity with low success? I think they will and I see this hunt eliminated after this coming year. Might toss a monkey wrench into the wonderful draw odds.;-)
 
BESS & KTC

You two should sell AMWAY
do you expect us to believe that after sending in your $5.00
and application for the last 60 years that you are going to put in for a hunt that is not running in the middle of September.
 
No don't believe it. I am doing any weapon, September, during the rut, with a long bow.

The Mrs. is doing the girl hunt. 12 points.
 
Is it ethical to let them starve when they eat all the alfalfa out of farmer Green's field down to the roots and destroy his crop before the beginning of March? Let the biologists manage the herd. They are doing a good job with the elk which in turn will help the deer herd. Less competition for premium winter feeds equals bigger deer in the spring and fall.

ROY
 
Hey Roy Green! I am the one asking the questions around here.;-)

Ok I will humor your question because I am a nice guy. I haven't heard of any elk or deer starving, so I cannot answer that one.

Established alfalfa roots extend into the earth in a cultivated setting 3-4' down. These plants can only be exterminated by chemical spray or plowing up most of the root system. Mowing alfalfa to a stump will only produce a great crop with no dead feed in the crop. First crop is not harvested until late May or early June. There is no alfalfa crop in March.

Anyone need any soap to wash their ATV with?
 
Is it ethical to put alfalfa fields where elk have wintered for decades and then kill the elk because they are doing what comes natural??.
 
If people are concerned about ethics and deep snow, put the late hunt starting the day after the gen rifle deer hunt. The Dwr wanted more tags available with not as much success.
 
I am not hunting any elk ever again because i feel that hunting them at there peak breeding time is unethical! Hunting them as they group up in bachelor groups in late fall is unethical. WAY TOO EASY! Late season winter range hunting is unethical. If they opened a spring season, then i may consider it. It is only ethical if they have no antlers left on their heads and abundant feed is at every elevation. The cows will have calved and there would be a much smaller chance of making any impact on a herd.

YEAH RIGHT!!!

Shut up and hunt is what i think. If you don't like the timing of a season, don't hunt it or b!tch to those that do.

Love and peace always,:p
Kicker
 
I know this whole thing is to poke fun at those with ethics but I'll bite the hook anyway. I think any legal hunt is ethical exept for special cases such as abnormal severe weather, or some unexpected disaster. in Oregon our chuckar season goes until the end of Jan. but if the weather makes them weak and eveyone is road hunting birds that can't fly ODFW closes the season, as it should be. anyone hunting a late big game season should expect the same. the only other exeption I see is like our ag damage hunts that go into the spring when guys gut their cow elk and the calf is trying to stand up in the gut pile , legal but wrong. my land is in the hunt area and I've told ODFW no one is hunting on me past the end of the year and not at all if the elk are in poor shape. I'll live with the damage. as far as rut hunts I took a 382 bull in Utah a few years ago in Sept. and I didn't think finding a big one was that easy. and this year my wife drew a 3rd. season Colorado tag and took a 30" buck,we hunted hard for him.we don't have many rut hunts in OR. but I love'em. as long as it's truly a fair chase season and you hunt in a respectable manner I say go for it and those who don't agree are most often just jealous.
 
This is getting funnier all the time.

I like the idea of a spring hunt. Maybe around Easter weekend. I like little snubby fuzzy things on elk heads. I bet they taste really good right after a hard winter too.

ktc, no Pahvant for me. Although I am getting closer to drawing an archery tag down there if I wanted it, but everybody knows that shooting a bull during archery season on the Pahvant isn't much of a challenge and very unethical:)

As far as the posts on the DWRs forum I must say that most of the people I see posting there are even funnier/more messed up than us. I've read some stuff on there that's even better than turtle hunting and looking at some kid taking a hit on the bong. The scary thing is the DWR posting folks are serious......

At this point in my Utah elk hunting career I've just about given up hope. Whatever I do I won't draw. Everybody else is gonna put in for the late hunts so I say premium BABY! Premium late big bull supper dupper bull dropping fest that is:) Maybe the DWR will even charge me a premium price for my unethical hunt!

Just be ready to come help me pack my 380+ toad off the mountain, I don't think I'll be able to get my ATV to it that time of year! It'll be in the shop getting a Bess tune up:)
 
KTC - due the many summers I have spent harvesting mine (and probably yours too :D) fair share of alfalfa (without the help of a bale wagon!! :eek:) - in the warm months of early June, late July and (if we get enough water! :7) early September, I can certainly attest to the fact that what you say is true. However, in March (when the groud is the wettest and the elk are the lowest) you can and will lose your first crop to elk who don't eat just the tops of the plants, but the roots also, pawing 3-4# in the soft ground to get to the earliest hint of an alfalfa shoot. My brother was a DWR depredation specialist in Uintah and Carbon counties and his busiest time of the year was March and April and all he did was chase the elk from the alfala field to the corn field, from the corn field to hills where they wandered back down the next day to the alfalfa field. Kingfish's question is probably the most apropiate. Also the reason they don't starve is because hunts like this help to control over population of the winter grounds, and the natural depredation specialists (lions) take care of the ones who are starving. We are not the only ones who take advantage of the wintering grounds, though most lions don't care about a broken tine, unless of course a bull breaks it off in their ... um.. uh... buttocks. :p.

ROY
 
To help even it out, hunt with a bow, spear or a pocket knife. That would make it more challenging.
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Eric
 
The worse thing about elk/deer eating the fields down to the numb is that it don't hold any snow for the moisture to soak into the ground for the field to use in the spring (dry winters" no-snow years" are the worse because we lose the water the land needs). We always leave a few strips on the last cutting, it holds the snow,it's also a good places for the pheasents to get out of the wind and adds more feed for the deer. Right around calving season the cows are turned in and they clean up the left overs.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-05 AT 09:12AM (MST)[p]You are right Prism. Maybe B&C can start a new entry; Early Easter Elk Fuzzy Wuzzy records.

Those DWR forum guys are more messed up.;-)

Now to you Roy Green. I am going to be REALLY nice, not because I want to, but rather I need to. If you are from the Basin and chuck bales of hay for a living I NEED to be nice. You can probably throw hay bales 12 high standing flat footed. This means you could probably toss me 6 rows high. So nice I am.:)

I am all about helping my fellow man. I really want to help you and your farming neighbors and buddies. How many of them need an early start to getting those pesky elk off of your hay field? I am looking for 360 plus for the lady on an girl LE hunt. Late seaon of course to help you out.

So much private ground is posted, so I am turning the tables. I do not want to hunt, I want to remove big pesky bulls. You can even toss him in my truck. One hand on the front legs and one on the back. I bet a farm boy like you could toss him in without any help. Your hired!;-)

Who is putting in for the farm-aid girl hunts?;-)

You never harvested my hay Roy Green. My hay is worthless grass that you only mow to keep the weeds out. After it is baled I try to find an old cow farmer whos cows will eat the crap. I took on an additional 3 horses to eat the pasture down because I did not want to burn it come spring. I wish I had elk eating mine.:)
 
Do you need my woman's help removing big hay munching elk Gator? The great thing about frozen hay fields is you can drive across them to retrieve her elk. No damage! No tire ruts and no grazing bulls!:)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-05 AT 10:37AM (MST)[p]I can see it now another GIRLS GONE WILD dvd coming out soon.Watch as these girls hunt elk while using bales of hay for their blinds.HEE-HAW...............
 
Good idea bird. That is what America is all about. Inventing, marketing, and selling what the public wants. I think the public wants girl elk hunts which we have, girls in bikinis, high power rifles, and high beams on the winter range. Kind of a mild porn hunting vid.

No toothless, 300 pound basin women, with a chew ring in their Wranglers need apply. Could ruin the idea real fast.:)
 
Wow, talk about a lot of reverse Psychology going on! KTC has max points and really want to draw the Pahvant early tag. Sounds like you are trying to entice some of the highpoint holders to abandon ship and go for the "Easy Going Girl Late Elk Hunt".

Wow, your Jedi powers have only so much mind control here on MM...

CS
 
I do not care where people put in. I am getting a point. My only goal left in life is to be last man standing with max points.:)
 
ktc

I STILL CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!

THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT,THE HARDER IT IS FOR ME TO DECIDE!!!

I'VE NEVER SHOT FISH IN A BARRELL!!!

BUT THESE LATE ETHICAL/UN-ETHICAL BIG BULL HUNTS ARE LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL!!!

I SEEN 13 BIG BULLS ALL TOGETHER IN DANIELS CANYON DURING NOVEMBER,MY THOUGHTS WERE:IF I HAD THE LATE TAG THERE'D BE TROUBLE!!!

YOU COULD'OF SHOT OUT THE TRUCK WINDOW!!!

THE BULL WOULD OF ROLLED TO THE BOTTOM!!!

SOMEBODY WOULD SURELY STOP & HELP YOU LOAD IT!!!

THE MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT THE MORE I THOUGHT THIS AIN'T MY KIND OF HUNT!!!

WAY TO FRICKEN EASY!!!

LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL I GUESS!!!

I'M LEANING TOWARDS THE UN-ETHICAL!!!

THIS IS AN EASY HUNT,EVERYBODY TOOK TROPHY BULLS,VERY FEW WERE BUSTED UP!!!

THE ONLY bobcat HOPEING EVERYBODY & THEIR BUDDIES BUDDY STRAY FROM THE LATE HUNTS!!!
 
ktc, You got me by a couple points, but you might be dead and gone before I get mine, so I'm not too worried about you being the last man standing :)

I'll bet the late hunts were nowhere near as productive as some have stated. Maybe on some units, but not on most.

Since when is hunting in November considered hunting on winter range? It's not even winter still :)

Since when is giving 25 bull rifle tags for a heard of 3000, during the middle of the rut considered fair chase?

For me shooting fish in a barrell is actually pretty difficult. You ever tried to judge the deflection angle off water? :) :) :)

Cheers,
Pete
 
Hi Pete,

Our paths always cross at some point. I figured it would be some where in this thread.

I have shot lots of carp with a semi-auto. Pretty easy if you shoot enough. Especially with a gut full of beer.;-)

25 rifle tags in the rut? Now Pete. We need to talk about that one. The proclamation clearly states that during the any weapon rut season, "Any legal weapon may be used." This includes bow, rifle, or muzzleloader. These are clearly NOT rifle tags, rather the weapon of choice. If one decides to hunt the rut they can apply for these tags and CHOOSE the weapon. How nice is that?:) If you choose to bow hunt then one can choose the season that best fits the rut dates between 2 hunts!

In November, the bulls have retreated to face the winter. I realize the ground may not be covered with snow, but the retreat has happened. I agree. Many units were awful during late season. Many were awesome. I am pickin' a good one.;-)

I wish you luck in the draw Pete. I really do. Me and the Mrs. are going out this year. I can feel it in my chilly bones. I want to leave this game up to you guys. I am tired. I really am. 2 bulls on the wall in 2006 would make me happy to watch from the sidelines.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-05 AT 11:32AM (MST)[p]Well, now that we've pretty much all agreed that the late hunt was a HUGE success rate on big bulls, what do you think the DWR will do now?

I believe their original thought was that the success rates would be low, thus they could issue more tags to move a few more of us through the process-more opportunity, and $$$.

From the beginning I knew it would be a good hunt, but thought it would hing more on the weather to drive the bulls out of the timber-I was wrong. This past November was one of the warmest and driest on record, and hunters still hammered the crap out the big bulls.

Arizona issues hundreds of permits on many of their late hunts and success rates rarely exceed more than 30-40%. I think a lot of this has to do with the different country of each state, and the different habits of the elk.

Either way, most of our elk units are still way over age objective. I think our herds can handle a few more harvests like this past one, but it wont take long and we'll all be wondering, Where'd all the big bulls go????

I doubt it will ever get to this because big bulls equal big $$$ for our ever growing conservation tags and the powers that manage our wildlife.
 
Prism

THE NEW AGE OBJECTIVES SUCK!!!

I'LL GUARANTEE YOU ONCE THE AGE OBJECTIVES ARE REACHED YOUR BIG BULL HUNTING IS ALL OVER WITH!!!

THEY'VE BRAIN WASHED A FEW GUY'S (AND THEY SUCKED IT IN!!!)
THAT THERE ARE ALOT OF BIG BULLS DIEING OF OLD AGE,WRONG!!!

WHEN THE AGE OBJECTIVE IS REACHED (3-4 YEAR OLD BULLS)JUST THROW THE TOWELL IN ,IT'S OVER WITH!!!

DAMN,THAT WOULD BE BAD IF A BULL IN UTAH DIED OF OLD AGE!!!

I'M STILL LEANING TOWARDS UN-ETHICAL ON THESE LATE HUNTS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING IF YOU ONLY RUTTED ONE TIME ALL YEAR,YOU'D BE LAYED UP JUST LIKE A STINKY BULL ELK,RUN DOWN,SKINNY,NOT CARING IF ANYBODY SHOT YOU OR NOT,TO BE HUNTED IN THIS CONDITION IS JUST NOT ETHICAL,ITS A SHOOT NOT A HUNT!!!
 
I was involved in six limed entry Elk hunts in Utah this year.

The first a Wasatch Archery, hardest by far, we hunted all but a few days and scouted very hard and didn't end up taking a bull because my friend wanted a 340 bull after nine years of applying.

The second and third where Pahvahnt Early hunts, this was by far the easiest and most successful hunt both hunters killed bulls one 385" and one 365" with BOWS on the any weapon hunt. We saw hundreds of bulls, and had opportunities at many 350 plus bulls every day.

The fourth was limited entry Wasatch Early. A friend of mine called and asked if I had seen any bulls because a friend of his had a tag, and he knew that I hunted this unit a lot and knew where some bulls where. I told him that I couldn't hunt the first weekend, but could go up one evening during the week and put him on a 340+ bull which is what he wanted. Tue after the opening we went up and within one hour had a 345" bull on the ground. Not real hard for a nice bull.

The fifth hunt was of course my favorite, because it was mine. Wasatch late hunt, I saw a lot of bulls, different bulls but no more 350+ bulls then I had seen on either the archery hunt or the early Rifle hunt. This hunt was very good to me, but I think I could defiantly done as well or maybe better on the early hunt, I hunted hard with a lot of help in some very rugged country and oh yea it was colder then hell most of the time.

The last hunt was also Wasatch late where I helped a friend take a nice 350 bull as well, this bull was also not shot off the road and I attribute him killing this bull to a lot of time spent on the mountain.

My overall opinion is that the late hunts will get harder, remember that besides some pressure from cow hunters these elk have never been hunted this time of year, I think the elk will get used to protecting themselves that time of year and it will get harder to kill a big bull. The Early hunt is managed for 100% success, as long as they keep it that way that is not going to change.

If you are hung up on a having a hard hunt for elk hunt Utah the way I see it either put in for an archery hunt or a muzzy hunt or hunt the open bull areas, because when you have as many bulls as Utah does it is never going to be hard to kill them with a rifle no matter when you hunt them.

ONE LAST THING FOR BOBCAT, ALL YOU DO IS B**CH ABOUT THE STATE OF UTAH LOWERING THE AGE CLASS, BUT THEN YOU COME ON HERE CLAMING TO BE SOME BIG ETHICAL HUNTER THAT DOESN'T BELIEVE IN SHOOTING FISH IN A BARREL. MAKE UP YOUR MIND BECAUSE WHETHER OR NOT YOU REALIZE IT YOU ARE PREACHING FOR HIGHER AGE CLASS AND A MORE ETHICAL HUNT AT THE SAME TIME, THAT CANNOT HAPPEN THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THE HUNT HARDER IS TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF MATURE BULLS.

THE ONLY ARROWHNTR THAT WISHES THAT BOBCAT WOULD LEARN THAT TYPING IN FULL CAPS IS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE WHEN YOU ARE ANGRY, AND THAT BOBCAT NEEDS TO DECIDE WHICH SIDE OF THE FAIR HUNT LOWER AGE CLASS AURGUMENT THAT HE IS GOING TO BE ON.

Bobcat I am just having fun with you I enjoy most of your comments here.

Sorry it is so long; fortunately I had spent a lot of time on the mountain in November and could have predicted the outcome of this late hunt last year and that is why I put in. Do I think it was easier then the early hunt no way. Do I think it had better odds. With 10 points I drew a guaranteed tag and with my luck that is the only one that I can get.

Good Luck to all in 06'
 
ARROWHNTR

HMM,YOUR NAME SEEMS TO BE TYPED IN THE CAPS-LOK MODE DOES IT NOT???

WHAT DO YOU REALLY THINK GOT THESE BULLS IN LE UNITS WHERE THEY ARE TODAY???

A LITTLE SURVIVAL PAST AGE 3-4 SURE HELPED NOW DIDN'T IT???

NOT KILLING EVERY YOUNG BULL IN SIGHT ON THE UNITS SURE HELPS NOW DON'T IT???

NOT LETTING EVERYBODY IN THE STATE THAT WANTS TO HUNT AN AREA HELPS OUT TO,DON'T IT???

WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SEEING WITH YOUR OWN EYES THE LAST FEW YEARS DIDN'T COME FROM AN OPEN AREA EITHER!!!

I'M AMAZED YOU DIDN'T STATE YOU'VE SEEN BULLS DIEING OF OLD AGE ON LE UNITS,IT MIGHT HAPPEN,ITS DAMN RARE & IF YOU'RE IN THE FIELD & ON THE MOUNTAIN THAT MUCH YOU KNOW IT!!!

YA,YOU CAN REDUCE THE NUMBER OF MATURE BULLS & MAKE THE HUNT HARDER,YOU WORK FOR THE DWR OR WHAT???

THE SIDE I'M ON IS:IT TOOK ALOT OF YEARS & WORK TO GET THESE LE ELK UNITS WHERE THEY ARE TODAY,DECIMATED SOME NICE MULEY AREA'S ,(THE PART I HATE THE WORST!!!)WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU LOWER THE AGE OBJECTIVES AS LOW AS THEY WANT TO??? CAN YOU NOT SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN OR DO YOU HAVE TO EXPERIENCE IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES???

REMEMBER:WHAT TOOK YEARS TO ESTABLISH CAN BASICALLY BE DESTROYED IN 2 SEASONS IF NOT MANAGED PROPERLY!!!

IF YOU BOY'S WANT TO HUNT PISSCUTTER BULLS I CAN SHOW YOU WHERE TO DO IT WITHOUT SCREWING THE ODDS OVER FOR PEOPLE LIKE ktc,NOT ONLY WHERE YOU CAN HUNT EVERY FRICKEN YEAR,YOU'LL NEVER TAKE A TROPHY IN THE AREA BUT YOU'LL ALWAYS HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY YOU'RE ALL LOOKING FOR!!!

MARK MY WORD ON IT,PUT IT IN YOUR DIARY,WHEN THE AGE CLASS IS CUT BACK DUE TO GREED YOUR FRICKEN BONUS POINTS WON'T BE WORTH THE 5.00 YOU PAID FOR THEM!!!

HAS EVERYBODY FORGOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED ON THE FISHLAKE UNIT,MY HOW WE FORGET QUICKLY!!!

YOU KNOW WHICH SIDE I'M ON & IT'S DAMN SURE NOT THE SIDE TO DESTROY WHAT WE HAVE BUILT UP!!!

WELL,YOU ADMITTED WHICH HUNT YOU PUT IN FOR & DRAWED & TAGGED OUT,NOT TRYING TO AGGITATE YOU BY SAYING YOUR HUNT WAS LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARREL BUT IT SURE SOUNDS LIKE YOU RAISED HELL WITH THEM BULLS,NOW COME ON OVER & HUNT AN OPEN BULL UNIT WITH ME & WE'LL SEE HOW MUCH DAMAGE YOU CAN DO ON 350"+ BULLS IN A UNIT WITH NO AGE OBJECTIVES,COME ON I'M SERIOUS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING ALOT OF THESE GUYS THAT HAVE PULLED A LE ELK TAG IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS ARE NOW TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET A SECOND TAG IN THEIR LIFE TIME,DON'T TRY GETTING IT BY SCREWING A GOOD THING UP BY LOWERING THE AGE CLASS,LET THEM GROW UP,LET THEM GET BIG,LET THEM LIVE PAST AGE 4,LET THERE BE A POSSIBILITY THAT ONE BULL IN HISTORY MIGHT DIE DUE TO OLD AGE,LET OTHERS LIKE ktc & OTHERS HAVE A CHANCE AT A BASICALLY ONCE IN A LIFETIME TROPHY HUNT!!!
 
arrwhntr,

You forgot to mention you got a biiiiiiggggggg one! Or is this the 385 bull?;-) If not it sure otta be. I was going to put up the link, but it would ruin the thread readability. I am kind of fussy that way.:)

I will state my stance. I hate age objectives of 3-4 but this thread is all about having some fun. You got a biiiiiiggggg bull on the girl hunt, but that is ok. I was worried about me going late and getting called a puss. Not directed at you.;-) If I got a bull like yours and got called a girl or a puss, I would laugh in their face. I might even go as far a slapping them up side of the head with that knarly fourth point.:)

Are you really sure you would pick the early over late? Be honest now. I am leaning late all because of you.
 
KTC,

I think that if I had the points that you have I wouldn't have put in for the Late hunt last year, and I wouldn't put in for it this year. Honestly I saw an opourtunity to draw with less then max points and that's why I did the late hunt, I knew it was risky to kill a monster bull beacuse you really only get a week or two of scouting in beacuse the bulls are moving towards the winter range so fast. These bulls that I hunted where not on the winter range, they where moving from the high country towards there wintering grounds which made it very hard to find one good bull and pattern him.

I think a good example of what is going to happen to late hunt is the same thing that happened on the cow hunt in that same area. The first year or two it was good, you could kill a cow in november pretty eaisly, but once they started getting pressure in there every November they started moving into the private land and the deeper timber. On my hunt I never saw a single cow.

Honestly this year during the rut hunt I new where several bulls where that would score better then the one I killed.

Ya, and the 385 bull I mentioned was not my bull it was a pavhant bull.

Whatever you decide if you are succesful let me know, I know the unit pretty well.

Arrowhntr
 
After some serious soul searching and an introspective paradigmical shift in my psychy I have decided against putting in for the late hunt.

I'm going to put in for the archery tag on Diamond Mt. It's the only place that wasn't shot to @^%@% this past Novmeber:)

Plus I'd rather be hunting deer somewhere that time of year!

*Subject to change once or twice more before the deadline!
 
Bobcat, it must be cold real cold in the basin......

Question for you when you stated "NOT KILLING EVERY YOUNG BULL IN SIGHT ON THE UNITS SURE HELPS NOW DON'T IT???". When is the last time you have hunted a spike only unit? I went 1 year and only hunted the first day because it was a shooting gallary.

What is the survival rate of yearling bulls after the hunt?

Thats okay, I'll just keep putting in my 5 dollars a year and hunting out of state like everyone else. Chances are the wolves will kill off all the elk before I have my 30 points.
 
South_sloper

I'VE NEVER HUNTED A 'SPIKE ONLY' UNIT!!!

WHAT I'M SAYING IS:IT TAKES ALOT OF UPCOMMING SMALL BULLS TO MAKE IT TO BEING A FEW BIG BULLS!!!

THESE L.E. UNITS PRODUCING (FOR THE MOST PART!!!) 380"+ BULLS DIDN'T COME FROM SPIKE ONLY UNITS!!!

SO YOU WENT ON A (SHOOTER) SPIKE HUNT HUH???

MILK ON THE LIP HUNTS IN MY OPPINION!!!

THE SOUTH SLOPE IS A 'SHOOT ANYTHING IN SIGHT' HUNT!!!

HOW MANY 370"+ BULLS HAVE YOU SEEN COME OFF AN OPEN UNIT???

THE SURVIVAL RATE OF YEARLING BULLS???

THAT DEPENDS ON THE UNIT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING:GOOD PLAN,NO SENSE OF YOU PUTTING IN HERE IN UTAH!!!
 
South Slope,

I don't know how many of the yearling bulls get killed each year, but a lot of them make it. I saw tons of spikes and two and three point bulls on my hunt in November.

I have a freind that raises elk in Idaho, and he told me that he used to yeild quite a few spike yearling bulls, but he always got rid of them immediatly because his thought was they did'nt have good genetics. After five years of doing this, he has told me that he very rarely has a yearling spike born into his heard, most of his yearlings are two and three points with the occasional four or five first year bulls.

I would tend to agree with this because when I first started hunting spike only units, it was rare to see these spikes with extras, but now they are more common then staight spikes. I think that Utah had it wrong when they killed any bull without browtines on the yearling only hunts, but they realized it and changed it to the spike only hunt.
 
I agree that the spike hunts are an effective way of culling the weaker genetics from the herd. My uncle raised elk and many may have seen them during the Olympics in Park city. After 14 years of hunting elk in Utah, and not ever getting to take the safety off. I am defiantly thinking more quantity in some degree is needed to off set the quality only equation we currently have.

The south slope will never have elk until the tribe stops selling thousands of cow tags all winter long.
 

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