Utah is #1 on B&C Bulls

PleaseDear

Long Time Member
Messages
10,420
Yeh, well, Goodmorning,

The new issue of Fair Chase (B&C quarterly mag.) has the listing/article about the top states in modern times, 2000 thru 2005 and UTAH is #1 with entries.

Top 5 states are:

Utah-48 40 Typical/ 8 Non-Typical

Arizona-39 21/18

N. Mexico -23 18/4

Wyoming- 22 20/2

Nevada- 19 12/7

Looks like our DWR is doing a great management job on our LE elk herds along with (give credit where credit is due----GULP) Don and his SFW group.

The guides that put folks on these monsters, like Troy, Doyle, Shawn, Lyle, Todd & Travis, Monte Green and so forth.

The overlapping habitat projects of MDF and RMEF and the FNAWS.

It's all good.
 
Wow, when is that Utah draw??????/ :)

I would be curious to see a cross reference with a brea kdown based on % of elk taken being B&C (in other words how many elk are B&C vs. how many elk are taken) I was surprised that WY beat NV, but NV has far fewer tags issued.
 
My best guess would be that Nv. is first place with the extrememly low amount of tags issued vs Book Bulls harvested, then Utah with another low end tags issued.

N.Mexico with the large amount of tags issued via the draw, landowner tag sales ect. would have to have the lowest percentage of book bulls vs tags issued.....

Kinda strange but Pennsylvania and Kentucky had more book bulls from 2000-2005 entered than Colorado did in the same timeframe.
 
Sorry to change the subject, but what amazes me is that UT hunters are complaining! Why screw with a good thing! Right now the recommendations are to double the number of tags in 2006 compared to what they were in 2004 (in most units). You can kiss UT's #1 ranking good-bye in the coming years if this happens!
 
Utah............... 465 tags spread out over 5 application choices against 27 units of LE elk.......PROPOSED....465 tags??

Kiss what good bye............?????

Hope ya draw this year then Jim.....

Robb
 
PleaseDear, you hit the nail on the head why many UT residents don't seem to care! Increasing tags by 50% and dropping age class objectives to 4 to 5 years likely won't carry any impact on how many B&C bulls UT will produce in the future?
 
This question over top bulls is not even a discussion. First, Utah should have alot of B&C bulls. Look how many Rifle tags they have during the rut, compared to Arizona and Nevada. Even with that they still only have 1 more entry. Now look at the Pope and Young entries which is where the proof is in the pudding. NO CONTEST. AZ kicks butt.
And those from Utah better start worrying about an increase in tags without a change in hunt structure because just as sure as the sun coming up tomorrow the quality will decrease.
 
257,
sorry if that came off as confrontational. Actually, My roots go back to Utah and I grew up hunting deer in southern UT, so I have nothing against Utah. I was just pointing out facts that while Utah has some great bulls the post that Utah has the most B&C bulls in the last year should not be interpritted as they have the largest amount of trophy bulls. It's more based on their hunt structure maximizing their quality but that will soon start to suffer and I wish the G&F would adopt a more specific management program and keep the age objective higher. I have 4 elk points(after building 5 deer points and switching) and would love to still have a great elk experience up there when I draw. The quality of the elk hunt in AZ is never duplicated because the management plan is sound for an older age class pure and simple. If you start lowering the age class objective, deductively it will drop, the amount of large bulls harvested will drop and the complaints of unfullfilled elk hunt expectations will increase. Then it's hard to go back, which is why we just fought very hard against a change to our elk hunt structure. If it ain't broke don't fix it!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-06 AT 05:25PM (MST)[p]I get a kick out of the nonresidents who are crying rivers over this increase. They have no vested interest in Utah's elk beside $50 worth of points and if they have put that much into it then they started out with the expectation of 330 class bulls. They will only hunt Utah once and now want to go home with a 360+ bull. This is really funny.

Look at the INCREASE of tags last year and then look at the INCREASE of the average age of bulls harvested. BOTH went up. Utah can kill more bulls, allowing their residents and some nonresidents more of a chance at mature bulls.
 
To say quality won't go down is crazy , the units with no book class bulls now will be the only units were the quality won't suffer. I took a book bull in southern Utah a few years ago and he was the only one I know of taken in the unit that year, it's not like they're everywhere. hammer them to hard and it will be over. you have a great thing going and it's a shame to screw it up.
 
'Proof in the Pudding'...

P&Y min. entry is 265 pts.

B&C min. is 375 pts......

Just a 'few' points different wouldn't ya say...
 
2 Point,

You make a great observation and have a valid argument. For us quality guys, we need to remember, that 10 years ago we could only expect 330 bulls.

For you quantity guys, you need to remember, that 10 years ago that you could only expect 700-800 tags.

By looking at both sides of that argument, We now have 1500+ tags and 360+ bulls. What is the problem? Over 10 years we have seen a 100% increase in tags and a 20% increase in size. Looks like Utah has done a great job catering to both. Should the quantity and quality guys expect to regress backwards to 1995? Less quality and less quantity? No one wins.

Happy hunting 2 Point!
 
Utah has some great quality however at what cost? If you only get to hunt every 12-15 years it isn't worth it to me.

I would rather shoot a small six point every three or five years then a 375 bull every 12-15 years. But then I could care less if my name is attached to some record book.
 
Hunterted, You may want to check out the draw stats as they currently stand. YOU CAN draw LE elk units currently if you have 5 pts! Obviously they aren't the Pahvant or San Juan but you can currently guarantee yourself to draw LE tags as a resident in several units with 5 or so points. I would think a 280 to 330 class bull would be possible if you hunt hard in these units!

The guys that are complaining about not drawing tags and hunting need to look at some of these other units and apply there rather than screw it up for the guys that are willing to wait 10 to 15 years for a once in a lifetime type unit!
 
ted,

Hunt the Uintahs EVERY YEAR! You can shoot a 300 bull every 3-5 years if you hunt harder.
 
You shouldn't have to wait twelve years between hunts for the areas you want to hunt.

All of the areas I hunt elk were open bull and now they are LE and Spike only. The UDWR made the correct call in makeing these areas LE and they are makeing the correct call in increaseing the tag numbers. There are plenty of elk and even with the increased number of tags there will be plenty of elk. Look at the state as a whole and there are plenty of units that are underutilized.

I think you guys want to be able to shoot a giant bull without having to hunt for it. With the increased tags there will still be some very nice bulls in each unit, you will just have to hunt for them.

KTC.... I don't hunt the Uintah's (for elk) but just becuase the Unitahs are there that doesn't mean that all of the other units should be so limited? The great thing about the Unitahs is you can hunt them. I wish I could say the same about Monroe, Manti, Book Cliffs, etc.

P.S. Since you don't know how hard I hunt, I will assume you ment hard and that you weren't telling me to hunt harder. ;-)
 
ted,

You are right. I want the biggest bull in Utah and I had better not have to leave my truck to do it! If they issue more tags and I have to leave the comforts of a pick-up I am going to be really upset!;-) My 30-378 can only reach 600 yards consistently.

Don't you hate it when they keep you from hunting where you want? I have been waiting to hunt Yellowstone for 40 years. I have also wanted to hunt Lone Peak mountain goats. Look at what they do. They limit tags in an area that I want to hunt. You know what really digs me? It is those San Carlos indians! I want to hunt there and the government gives them the land. Geez, all I want is to hunt where I want.;-)

Let me tell you about the Dutton ted. I know 4 guys who "hunted harder" and I know for a fact they would have appreciated just one 380 bull to be SEEN, let alone on a road. It was not easy by any stretch ted. How hard or harder could they have hunted? Not much from what I saw.

Good luck ted.
 
KTC

Yellowstone? Mountain Goats? Indian res? I'm not sure where you are going with all of that. I thought we were talking about Utah elk. Maybe you should review where those LE units came from.

So those guys didn't have a good hunt becuase they didn't see a 380 bull? So Dutton should be shut down? I bet if they hunted as hard as you say they passed on some great bulls. Look around any of the Manti's, Wasatch,Monroe or Bookcliffs units and you can easily find a great bull. The LE units should not be managed so that everyone gets a book bull. A book bull should be an exception.

I was giving you the benifit of a doubt on the hunt harder comment,I guess I was wrong. My mistake it won't happen again.
 
I have to agrre with Jims.
I just looked at the 2006 proposals for our elk heards as far as age class goes. Right now we are killing 7-8 year old bulls (average) on most of our LE units. The proposal by the F&G are to lower that age class to 4-5. Don't know bout the rest of you, but if i'm going to put in for 15 years to finally draw a good tag in Utah, i want to kill a bull in his prime, not a 4 or 5 year old! Where's the reasoning behind that? And there goes our 400" bulls within the next decade if they get their way. This state seems to be stuck on quantity, more than quality.
 
Hi ted,

You stated you want to hunt areas that you want to hunt. I was also telling you areas I want to hunt. Sarcastically of course. Hell, I have wanted to hunt Utah LE bulls for 25 years. I am pretty excited about drawing out and getting to hunt bulls that have more than a spike or a ratty 6 point. It is a one time deal believe it or not.

You know, it is easy to get a NICE bull. Nice to you may not be nice to me. If you think that more than a few get a "book bull" on the LE units you have never been on one and hunted it. I know, it is easy, give it a try.

Benifit of the doubt? You lost me there ted. Maybe you do not know that "hunting harder" has become a bit of a joke around here. Put the comment into context and don't let it hurt your feelings any? Ok?

The point I was making about Dutton ted was that these premium units do not have 380 bulls around every tree. Book bulls are not shot by every hunter like you imply. Your concerns about book bulls are not substantiated and book bulls are still special. What I was say is that 4 people hunted hard and not one of them brought home a book bull. Understand?

Why do I waste my time with this crap? It is time to get busy on this issue.
 
You wont be getting to many more of these big bulls on the Manti and Wasatch they almost doubled the tags in each of these units for the early rifle hunt during the rut. Now add that on top of what was added from last years increase, and it wont take long til these bulls are killed. It is unreal what they are doing. I do hope that AZ takes over the number one spot so that the DWR gets their head out of their butts. For those that want to hunt a bull go to other states. For the price that you pay for the limited tag for resident you can almost buy a nonresident tag. Colorado for one will love your money so go there. Selfish, didn't you parents teach you to share when you were younger.
 
It"s the same thing here in Oregon " I'd rather kill two spikes than 1 six point " that's why our hunting sucks. keep your quality hunts going in Utah and come to Oregon or Colorado if you just have to kill something, even if it's a dink.
 
Most of you guy's make great points and have valid concerns and complaints. I personally stand for a methodical increase in tags to maximize opportunity. I do believe that their is room for more harvest. That being said, I think to drop the majority of units into a 4-5 year old bracket, might not be the best thing in the world! The thing to remember is that the elk committee took the "publics" input from all the major wildlife groups in the state and came up with a plan to allow more opportunity. If the "public" does not support this they must say so. Go to the leaders of your organizations and tell them how you feel. Then take your input to the RAC's and let your voice be heard in a logical and polite manner. These increases in tags will definatly effect quality. I don't think as much as some may think, but it is naive to say it wont. Get involved and let your oppinions be known.

Have a great day and good luck in the draws.

Chad
 
Many of these LE area's in Utah were once general areas. Some years ago they took them and made them spike only and LE to increase the elk herd. It was a great move and it inceased the herds. Now that the herds are up it makes sense to increase the tags.

I do admit it won't be as easy to find that 380 bull that many of you are looking for but the units shouldn't be managed for monster bulls. They should be managed for elk population.

I hunted Monroe Mtn with a friend who had a hip replacement and knee replacement and he passed up 10-12 350 class six points before shooting the one he liked. This guy couldn't go more then a few hundred yards off the road and he was able to kill a 360 bull and had a chance at one we felt could have gone 380.
 
I think you could increase the number of LE bull tags by 50% and you would still kill bulls for a long time that were 8 to 9 years old. There are a ton of 4 to 6 year bulls on these units right now. However they need to lighten up on the cow tags. Reason being is that you will see 7 bulls fighting for 7 cows. That just gives you a ton of busted bulls. Last year the big bulls were all busted by the rifle season. So I put in for archery this year. I also think they need to have a trophy five point hunt to kill the five points that are breeding. Trust me there are some huge five points out there. This would also create more tags.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom