Field Judging Bulls- Just too excited or full of crap

R

rackem406

Guest
I am just wondering people's opinions out there on scoring bulls and what we see and read here in the posts. I hear people talking left and right about the toad bulls they are seeing this year 400+!!! You will see a bull that might gross 360 posted and everyone is crapping themselves thinking this a 390+ bull, biggest bull ever, etc, etc.

While I won't knock a 360 bull or a 300 bull because a trophy is in the eye of the beholder, the over exaggeration here gets ridiculous some times. It might be a minor issue, but what happens when a guy who thinks every bull that scores 300 is a 350+ bull draws a primo tag and kills a dink. Its no sweat off my back if someone does that, but don't get bummed when your suppossed 360 bull gets scored at 310.

It can go the other way too. I had a friend guide an early rifle hunt in AZ last year and his client killed a bull that grossed 406 and the guy was like ho hum and it was his first elk ever. He was saying maybe I should have waited for a bigger one (No tip either). That sucks too when someone can't even appreciate what a monster a 400+ bull is that and that 99% of us won't get a bull that size.

If you don't care about the size of the rack great, but don't pull numbers out of your butt and post. Too many times guys are having to call bs and ask for pictures to prove it.

Rackem

***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
Last year Hunting Illustrated Magazine had a great article on field judging elk. I read it several times and it really helped me out during my first elk hunt ever. My problem is that when you see bull elk in a magazine they are usually monsters or some guy is posing with a dead elk that is laying on the ground. When you see a live animal in the field struttin' his stuff you see an animal on his feet and those antlers look different in relation to his body as compared to a dead animal on the ground. And you really don't see many pictures of mediocre or small bulls so its just hard to know what he is when your a greenhorn. We've all seen ground shrinkage after shooting an animal. They just seem to be bigger when thier on the hoof. I ended up getting about a 310 to 315 inch first bull that I thought was about a 320" bull which is small for a Nevada tag but it was a great hunt and one I will never forget due to the many ups and downs I encountered. I'm very pleased with my first bull considering I moved from Florida to Nevada about 10 years ago and have seen only a few elk in that time. It really pays to study up on your quarry and know what your going after. You may not get that bull elk tag for several years but now is the time to study up on them. Good post rackem. fatrooster.
 
300 bull is a monster where I come from, I've scored bulls for guys that claim they are 350 and even after I throw a score of 260 back at them they still tell everyone that it scores around 320. I scored a bull at 288 a couple of years ago, a real nice bull for the area it was taken in and the guy was like no way my dad has a 340 bull in the house right here and this bull is alot bigger. I went in the house took the elk off the wall scored it at 260, they said that the taxidermist had scored it for them, anything to talk a guy into a mount I guess.
 
I usually under call elk. When the bull I arrowed last year walked into water I wispered to my brother 340 and I passed at first. After watching him from our ground blind for 10 minutes I decided he would go 350. I drew back on him as he walked out to 30 yards just to practice drawing on big bulls. The 30 pin settled and I couldnt take it. He ended up going 365, would have broke 370 without a broken third. My point is , its hard to judge bulls unless you have more than one class of bull standing togeither. They all look huge standing alone at 15 yards. It doesnt really matter as long as your happy. If it takes a certain score for you to feel successful or if you are guiding for hunters that worry about score you better learn the tricks of field judgeing. I personly dont think it matters much . If a guy claims he spotted a 400 class bull I assume he did. Who am I to say other wise.
 
If I saw an honest 370" bull, i would think it was much bigger tahn it really is, so I would shoot it. And be very exited about it, even after it was scored, because its still the same bull that I got exited over in the first place...




 
Does score really matter? Fact is most of us aren't the most accurate field judgers, if a guy likes a way a bull looks it shouldn't matter the B&C score. That's my theory, we'll see how I do this fall as I attempt to harvest my first elk though, lol.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-06 AT 09:32PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-06 AT 09:30?PM (MST)

Fatrooster,

Thats a great first bull and being within 10" when you're judging it on your first hunt or any hunt is good. And 257Tony I would drop that 370 bull in a heartbeat too.

The problem I have with everyone talking about the 400+ bulls they've seen this year is that there is no way (in AZ). This year is not like last year with the moisture and feed throughout the growth period. There was a post on another site with pics of a bunch of bulls that were drought humped. No one wants to believe it, but you're seeing bulls with g1's-g3's all at least 18" and then the 4th is the same length and the 5th is only 5", then to top it all off the beam is only 45". Nice bull? Yes. Close to his potential? No way!

I think you can show a lot of these guys a pic of a 370 bull and they will swear up and down it is 400+. Do your homework and learn to score. Fatrooster is a perfect example of someone who knew what he was looking at because he took the time to learn how to judge a bull before his first hunt. I think the guys seeing all the 400" bulls are the same ones that think they carry a 10" tine around in their pants.....

Rackem



***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
They are all 400" bulls till they hit the ground.

BS Hunting Club Co-founder
 
I have a AZ unit 9 archery bull tag and have to agree about most people over guessing a bull on the hoof. We scouted last weekend and saw some good bulls, a couple that were 350-360, one that was pushing the 370 mark and one abosolute hoss that had awesome 3rds and a huge back end, was he 400, no but he was plenty bull for me @ 380+. Over all I think antler growth is about normal but nothing close to last year, we just didn't have enough feed at the right time. Man I can't wait to finally be the one with the tag!!!! Good luck guys.

Later,
Geoff
 
Right on Geoff. I've got a tag also! I can't wait to get close to some of those 300"+ dinks. With some luck we'll maybe get a chance at a 370+ monster. This is going to be fun! From an earlier post it is so sad when someone kills their first animal (in this case a 400" bull) and they don't have enough experience to appreciate how lucky they are. Hopefully after a few years they will come to appreciate their good fortune. Good luck! Lee
 
I'm kind of shocked that more people aren't replying. Is it because most of you are these same people who see a 6x6 and automatically think it is a 350+ bull?

Should I have titled the post "You all suck at judging" I know you all don't, but might catch more attention. I even know some people believe that scoring an elk should be on the guide test in AZ and that you can't be off by more than 10". Anyone????

Bueller....Bueller......Bueller

Rackem

***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
o.k. 'rack'...i'm gonna 'bite'...first off, anyone that knows me, knows i never 'score'. i don't think i would ever even be close, anyway. but, my son does...i went out to the garage and grabbed a couple for you guys (gals) to tell the rest of us what you think they score. the rack 'up front' in the pics was officially scored this spring by a b&c scorer. the back one, was not...i tried to get some different angles for you...as i am leaving in the am for awhile, i will post up the official score a little later on tonite....fire away....


P1110797.jpg



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dang, someone did a great job mowing that lawn...
 
6x7= 373 gross w/55" mains
Fat Boy= 361 gr. w/48" mains

Dont give me ahard time later when I am off by a bunch. Thats what they look like TO ME in the pics. (and you know how pics are)

life IS good
 
6X7=356
6X6=345
I agree it's tough to score from pictures, much easier in person. Even then it can be tricky, much harder to judge when not having a head and body to get reference from. Both are good looking bulls, congrats!
 
one's a 12 and the other is a 13. if the rack looks too big for the bull, shoot it. every bull i've ever seen that had a rack that looked out of place on it's head and made the body look small, was a thug.
 
WOW!!! That front one must be close to the record and the back one has to be at least 410!!! ;-)

Littlefoot,
First I have to say I love looking at your photos from when you go out just like everyone else. Good stuff. Second, that is one pretty lawn.

Those are both great bulls! Thanks for posting them.

Here's my guess (gross):

Front bull-362
Back bull-346

If that front bull had a matching left antler he would be pushing 375. I bet I'm a little low....

Rackem

***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
I completely agree Rackem, If more people knew how to score a bull the more people would be happy with a TRUE 300 bull( not the one inside your fav sporting shop but a TRUE 300) also the more mature bulls would be harvested not 2 or 3 year old bulls and then maybe a 350 would go back to being a great trophy bull like it should be!
Travis
 
Littlefoot,

Nice Racks!!! My camo hat is off to you!

I'm new at this guessing game and I emphasize that I'm "guessing" but I'll try it.

Front rack = 365"
Rear rack = 350"

Nice yard...but you better get that lone dandelion in the bottom left of the third photo...it'll spread like wild fire if you don't. :)

Grizzly
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-17-06 AT 08:12PM (MST)[p]6x7= 347
6x6= 338
They are both bigger than anything I've shot. Congratulations
 
iam with maddglasser,,, iam guessing closer to 320 on the front one and maybe 315 on the back.....but i dont know,,,, i hope there way bigger than i will not be over scoring on my elk hunt this year,,,,,cbryant
 
"The problem I have with everyone talking about the 400+ bulls they've seen this year is that there is no way (in AZ)."

Rackem, I know a consistent mega-bull guide in AZ that would disagree.....word is they've got one picked out that will go 400" for a client. Although, I agree with you on the amount of monster bulls and their top ends being drought finished this year.

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
I agree to some degree, but is everyone believing that 10% shrinkage rule? Because if so the few bulls that are TRUE 400 on drought year should have been 440 then. I guess on a wet year we will have another world record. Just a thought.
 
Front - 355
Back - 364

The distances are too short between points to give the back bull better than 60" main beams. He has great mass though. That back bull is deceiving. It may go over 370. Either way, shoot it. That back bull is a great bull. In fact, their both great bulls. Thanks for posting. It always helps to have pictures.


www.awholelottabull.com
 
here ya go...rack's original post seems to be 'right on'...for several years i've been tellin folks, "yep, that rack (the front one) is right bout' 360..." it was offically scored at 333 2/8...net. the gross was 345 5/8. it may look 'deceiving' to some, but the back rack is smaller than the front one. heavier, but smaller...'maddglass & cbryant'...ya done yourselves proud...'griz'...i got that 'weed' outa there for ya...see next week...
 
This isn't a drought year, not like 02 anyway. True we didn't have a good winter but have had AWSOME summer rains.

Donnie
 
I said 330ish on the front bull. Whats the score on the back bull??? That mass will go a long way. Maybe I got fooled.

Donnie
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-06 AT 00:01AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-17-06 AT 11:54?PM (MST)

BOHNTR,
I know what you are talking about and knowing how the guy who found him judges it truly is a mega bull. But in most areas the bulls just didn't reach their potential and that bull is nowhere near where last year's record was taken. Crappy tops and short beams most everywhere comparatively. But I would shoot a 380 bull in a heartbeat that should be 390. But I guess based on my score it would actually be a 360 bull. x(

Here's some pics of a bull I got on one of my cameras a few weeks ago. No one can answer what he really scores (yet), but it would be fun to see everyone guess.

44e554be275e8173.jpg

44e554e327a67ac8.jpg

44e5550627c4b88c.jpg

44e555262a767b5c.jpg



***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
I would say that bull would be in your 360 range by time he gets thru. NICE tops if thirds grow, I would guess the solid 360 OR + range! AWSOME!!!!!!!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-06 AT 00:08AM (MST)[p]I should have trusted myself on my first guess. I had the front bull at 348, but then I was thinking they got it officially scored so they probably thought it was in the 375 range, I better add a little more.

Stupid! Just like tests, don't go back and change your answer!!! (Mike B?! is CR helping you?)

***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
That makes me feel better. I guessed 345 on the first and a bit less on the second. I admit I was only grossing the bulls which is how I usually do it. Ye ha
 
Nice pics. Now I have a perma smile.
I would have to say he's all of 370, Great bull
 
Rackem' thats embarrassing. Over 15pts. off on your own ranting post. OUCH! Good cover though-we know you had it right on the money until you added more points for idiots like us who over estimate.:7

Just ribbing you a little man.

That trail cam bull is SWEET. Big bulky body on that dude too. Wouldn't want to pack that hind quarter out of too deep of a hole, unless MY tag was on it.

Kicker
 
Kicker,

Yeah it is embarrassing. I'm going to go crawl in a hole and never come out. But I promise I really had him lower, I'll scan in my scratch paper where I scored him.... Oh well. :-(

You're right, I just wanted everyone to feel better because I actually had his gross and net dead on :D

Rackem

***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
Rackem, could you let me know when that bull on your camera sheds his velvet so i can come poke a hole in his side.

Does the 406 in your username mean you have taken a 406 bull? If so could you adopt me.

Kicker
 
I didn't get my guess entered in time but I had the front one at 345 gross, and the back one at 335 gross. I shot two very similar in size to your two, so I had a good idea. Now in 6 days I'll be chasin Wapiti in unit 111-222 Nevada, in the same drainage as Randy Ulmer took his 425". Heehee. I am not used to seeing bulls greater than the 340" range so I'm not sure how I'll handle it. Just gonna shoot one that makes me happy. However, if it's not well over my 340" I have no reason to shoot. I don't need 3 bulls on the wall the same size. That's my reasoning anyway.
 
Ha... That is still the dream for me. That is the biggest I've been close up to that has been taken and not by me. I'm still waiting on my tag for a chance.

Rackem

***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
i heard through the grapevine that rackem shot a toad in 5b that he never found tell more rackem.
 
Now you can see why some of the scores you hear sound to good to be true. I've learned to never believe what you hear from an unknown/unreliable source. There are darn few reliable sources out there! The funny thing is, most everyone on this site THINKS they are--including myself!

>LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-06
>AT 00:08?AM (MST)

>
>I should have trusted myself on
>my first guess. I
>had the front bull at
>348, but then I was
>thinking they got it officially
>scored so they probably thought
>it was in the 375
>range, I better add a
>little more.
>
>Stupid! Just like tests, don't
>go back and change your
>answer!!! (Mike B?! is
>CR helping you?)
>
>***************************************************************
>?Just think of how stupid the
>average person is, and then
>realize half of them are
>even stupider!?
>~George Carlin
 
Putting KY in your name gives you away radar ears. Lets not talk about that 5bn bull. I can't sleep at night when I think about it. You shouldn't be able to either. His antlers have all been ground up now and are being used as an aphrodisiac in China.


Rackem
***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
Didn't read all the threads, but thought I would throw this out. I drew for a Utah limited entry tag a couple of years ago. Saw many nice bulls that first day. After about 25 bulls, I spotted a nice bull watching over his 30 cows. All I had read was that if the main beams were touching his hind quarters, you have a 350+ class bull. This bull went way back when he would bugle. I decided that this was a worthy bull to take for the tag I drew. Main beams were 56" and 57" on the other. The guide told me that it would score easily 350. After all was said and done, it scored at 324. My point is, there are many factors into scoring the bull. Main beam length, width and length of tines. Next time, if there is one, I will definitely be looking at the tine length first. Especially thirds. That is where I got killed.
 
I don't know slackem, if you guessed Littlefoot's bulls over, I think your 5B bull might have been a 290 bull. I saw you the buffet the other day and judged you at 406 and 7/8!!! LBS that is. J/K Rackem.

Thumpin
 
which buffet it had to be mandarin garden and that is a real good score, you must be a guide.
 
Hey Woundy Woundalot, Radar Ears little brother, king of all wounders. You better watch it Thumpin, if that buffet is closed when I show up I might have to add you to my score. What are you 180-185. That would put my score around 590.....

BTW, you overscored me I'm only 360 class

***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 
I heard throught the grapevine that ThumpinRM wounded 1800 inches of anlters in 2005. ThumpinRM tell us more.
 
I didn't like my post going to page two so I am bumping it.

Rackem

***************************************************************
?Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!?
~George Carlin
 

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