AZ "Road Hunting"

[SunsFan]

While reading the Arizona hunting regulations I noticed "Road Hunting" is illegal. According to the regulations it is illegal to drive around until encountering an animal you wish to harvest. Since I will be helping an elderly hunter this fall harvest an elk this regulation took me a little by surprise.

Does anybody know how strictly this rule is enforced? Could a hunter get cited if they truly "chanced" upon a bull driving back to camp and harvested it?

 

[sremim]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-06 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]No. Not really, the funny thing is, if you go to the G&F website and look at the hunting unit reports, I don't remember which unit it is, but they game warden who writes about it specifically tells you to road hunt. I'll have to find it and post it. Can they really prove you are road hunting? All you need to tell them is your trying to get from here to there, and you saw some elk on the way. I've never seen it enforced, but there is always the possibility.

Found it: this is pasted directly from the G&F website for unit 10 under Mule Deer:
"Glassing, spotting and stalking, still hunting, and road hunting (using a vehicle to move from one spot to another and glassing along the way) are all popular and effective ways to pursue mule deer"

 

[HullinPhx]

One thing you better make sure of though, you will be busted real quick and real hard if they catch you shooting from a vehical or shooting from or across a road!!! Every year they bust someone using a decoy near a road people shooting it from their Truck

John

 

[SunsFan]

Thank you, sremim. Great to know.


HillinPHX - Good point. This law is consistent with Montana where I have done the majority of my hunting. Thanks.

 

[utaz]

We were at the "Buckskins" lower Kaibab in 2004 and the game warden stoped us. There was about 40 minutes prior to dusk and my brother was the only one with a license.

The officer asked if we were road hunting. I politely explained that we were going from one opening to the other and glassing. He said "that is road hunting", he looked over my brother's license and tag. He gave us a 20 minute lecture on road hunting. I mentioned politely for him to go up a little higher and he will see probably 10 different vehcles going aorund in circles waiting for a rutting buck to come out into the opening. Anyone who has hunted the "Buckskins" knows exactly what I'm talking about.

After about 25 to 30 minutes re-learning the law, he let us go. We got as far away from that area as possible. We had nothing to hide, but to have a warden just stop vehicles on a hunt and ask if we were road hunting is sort of crazy.

I watched two nice bucks get shot right out of the vehicles on that hunt. We passed up on several bucks and ate our tag.

Word to the wise is to be careful when you hunt, don't hunt out of your vehicle. Find a spot park and get out. This warden I think wanted us to walk from our camp out into the field.


Utaz

 

[30inchbucks]

tUtaz,
Thats kind of crazy. I find it kind of funny that you can fly a plane with a GPS up to 48 hours before the hunt but you can't drive around and glass. Something is definately messed up there don't you think?

 

[utaz]

30inchbucks,

I belive in fair chase, I belive in no fences, but I also once in while like to get in my truck and glass for deer. I have 10X50 binoculars, because I'm looking at long distances. I can't afford a spotting scope, but thats next on my list.

It really made me mad, that they were picking on me and my borthers, for moving from one spot to the other to glass.

Airplanes should be illigal. There are a lot of things I think the wildlife group needs to work on and make a little clearer.

Utaz

 

[MuliesnMerriams]

Glassing from your truck and road hunting are two totally different things. I don't know how many times we've been moving from one glassing spot to another -thought we saw deer or pigs or whatever off the road, then stopped and pulled glass out to check it out. As long as you're not hunting from the truck and it's fair chase, you're good.

 

[Shedreg]

I was invited to go watch a buffalo yearling hunt in 5B and there was the GW truck in the lead and 5 trucks behind him, "finding" the buffalo herd.
We found the herd and they kept moving off and we couldn't get "close" enough to let the hunters shoot the ones that the GW wanted to be killed.
He got fed up and told all the hunters to get in his truck and he will drive across the country to get close to them.
They ended up shooting the yearlings from the top of the pickup and from the window of the truck!
All they told us about not hunting from a vehicle, shooting from a vehicle and driving cross-country, went down the tubes that day. Does that make them justifiable to break the laws that they enforce?
I guess the "wild" buffalo are used to the GW truck and didn't run away.

 

[MEANTTOBBUCK]

When I was drawn in the strip I had a warden tell me not to walk much. He told me to drive the roads and search for does and the bucks would be there. I guess it depends on the GW.
If the man you are taking is disabled he can get a champs permit that would allow him a lot of benefits. He just needs to get the form and take it in to his doctor and get it signed. It allows his hunting buddy to pursue a wounded animal.

 

[vitalzone]

If your stopped by a game warden while driving down any road during a hunt in progress and you have your firearm loaded or even rounds in the magazine chances are you will be questioned on road hunting,if your firearm is unloaded or your bow has the arrows in the back of the truck you are probaly just scouting which is fine.you are alright to scout by driving around,even if your firearm is in the vehicle uncased,but if it is loaded you are probaly up S-it creek!!!Better get out of the vehicle to shoot,and make sure you are off the road,even a forest service road,and not shooting across the road.

 

[utaz]

The Kaibab game warden checked my brothers gun and it was clean (no ammo in the chamber or in the magazine.) Like I said I 've hunted a lot in my life and I have never incountered a game warden that was so determined to read us the rights of looking for game in a truck.

One thing my dad taught us boys, is to unload the gun prior to jumping in the truck. We always double check that, no matter how many guns or permits we have. I'm glad to hear that other wardens allow you to travel via truck during the hunt, I really thought I missed some type of instruction or something in all my days of hunting.


Utaz

 

[sremim]

You are allowed to have bullets in the magazine while in the truck, just not in the chamber. It may not be safe, but its not against the law either.

 

[AZtrophyhunter]

Why don't we just leave this thread as is before somebody pee's their pants about raod hunting.

 

[daverp]

I detest road hunters as much as the next guy, but where does G&F get off randomly pulling people over without probable cause or reasonable suspicion? And checking for loaded firearms? Since when is it an offense to have a loaded rifle anwhere in the vehicle, weather it's in the passenger's seat or in a gun rack in the back seat (unless you're spotlighting)?

They better have a lot better reason to pull me over than just because I happen to be driving from point A to point B during a hunting season. And I cannot see where glassing from a vehicle qualifies as road hunting under anyone's definition. Were I to be pulled over, detained, and lectured for 20 minutes because I happened to glass a hill an hour before sunset during prime hunting hours, I would certainly not be happy.

 

[300MIKE]

Dave,
Not to pee on your parade but when you talk about reasonable susp and not having any I think your a bit off. Lets see, a couple of guys driving around the bab probobly slow in camo, during hunting season would satisify any judges reasonable person susp. Now if a GW has nothing better to do but play the game with theses guys during season, why yes its chickensh!t. Im sure he could go perform his job in a much more productive manner elsewhere.

Mike

 

[Heat]

"This warden I think wanted us to walk from our camp out into the field."

How dare him!

 

[daverp]

No problem, it's not my parade, it's G&F's.;-)

But I can say, as an ex LEO, I don't see that the above scenarios give any real indication of any crime (road hunting) being committed, and thus no reasonable cause to detain anyone, much less begin inspecting firearms to determine if they're loaded or giving verbal warnings (lecturing) about road hunting. I've seen nothing in the regs that says it's illegal to use binoculars from a vehicle, even if it is during a hunting season.

There is also only one instance I know of where you cannot have a loaded firearm in your vehicle (we're talking G&F laws here), and that is when spotlighting animals.

I'd like G&F or anyone to show where driving slow, using binoculars, and/or having a loaded firearm in the vehicle are elements of the crime of road hunting or any other crime in the absence of actually shooting, preparing to shoot (gun out the window) or attempting to shoot at an animal, or pursuing them in the vehicle.

Having said that, I'd like nothing better than to see them really put the hammer down on road hunters by setting up decoys or such or otherwise catching them in the act. I just don't want to be detained and questioned about legally possessed and loaded firearms when I'm busy trying to hunt an animal the legal and ethical way. If that happens, I'm likely going to have a problem, because he's likely going to get not a lot of cooperation or an ear full if he persists.

That shouldn't be a problem for me personally because the little time I might be in my vehicle, I'm usually hauling butt from one location to another at 25 plus, but I find it aggravating that someone glassing from their vehicle gets detained, questioned and lectured. That's not right no matter how you look at it. Now have that same person stick a rifle out the window and we've got a whole different ball game there.

 

[sremim]

dave,
Does G&F have to abide by the same rules as regular LE? Do they have to have a violation they see before they can legally pull you over? Or is the fact that you are hunting and they have the authority to stop anyone to make sure everything is legal, licenses, tags, etc.? Just wondering what the difference between LE and G&F LE is? Or is there? If they need to observe a violation, then there are thousands of illegal stops every year in every state. I would assume that if they know you are hunting, they have the authority to stop you to make sure you are legal.

 

[Tbuck]

daverp. Maybe I am misunderstanding this and you didn't mean it this way:
"but where does G&F get off randomly pulling people over without probable cause or reasonable suspicion? And checking for loaded firearms? Since when is it an offense to have a loaded rifle anwhere in the vehicle, weather it's in the passenger's seat or in a gun rack in the back seat (unless you're spotlighting)?"

But if you did, I'll let you in on a little secret. F&G officers don't really need any probable cause or reasonable suspicion as long as they can articulate why they lawfully detained a person. If you're on the mountain during or not during any hunting season they probably can articulate enough probable cause to detain you. And for your information driving around in a vehicle with a loaded firearm is illegal, spotlighting or not. At least in Utah and am fairly confident that it is that way in most states as well. Some, like Colorado won't even let you carry any ammo in the magazine and I believe your weapon has to be in a case as well.

 

[sremim]

Tbuck,
You should re-check some of your facts. AZ does not have anything against driving around with a loaded weapon. It is frowned upon, maybe they do have something saying you can't, but I have not yet seen it. Also, in CO you can have a loaded magazine in the vehicle, just not in the chamber. I had to G&F officers in CO last year check my rifle in my vehicle with a loaded magazine and everything was fine. And your weapon only has to be cased on an ATV in CO.

 

[daverp]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-30-06 AT 05:54PM (MST)[p]Arizona is an open carry state. On your person, in your vehicle, loaded firearms are fine. Handguns in vehicles must be on your person, in the glove box and in a snapping holster, or in plain view. The 2nd ammendment is alive and well in Arizona, which is why it really peturbs me to think G&F are out there stopping people and asking them if the firearm in the vehicle is loaded. Aside from an officer safety standpoint, it is NONE of their damn business what firearms I have in my vehicle in this state or what they're loaded with!

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's my belief that G&F enforcement officers are law enforcement officers of the state, and must abide by the same rules of law as other LEO's. The cannot just randomly pull people over for the purpose of seeing a license or seeing what you're up to, just as a LEO cannot pull you over just to see your driver's license or see what you're up to. Ther must be "PC" to initiate a stop. Question is, what constitutes probable cause?

Am I wrong, or is the consitution automatically recinded in the National Forests during hunting seasons?

Don't get me wrong, I think G&F generally does a good job, and if I'd of had my head on straight after school and my stint in the military, I'd have become one. But, I don't go for the over zealous, rights be damned Barney Fifes.

 

[daverp]

srenim,

I could be talkin' out my rear, but I believe I recall that G&F enforcement officers are certified as peace officers in the state of AZ. They should be subject to the same rules of law as any other officer. And weather they are AZ certified peace officers or not, they are still enforcing criminal law (game offenses are misdemenors and felonies) and seems to me they must follow legal procedure.

I look at it this way.....say I'm out driving around in the woods, during hunting season, with firearms in my truck, but I'm not hunting. What in the world gives G&F the right to pull me over, barring any overt signs of me committing any type of offense, and inquire to me about anything? That's equivelent to being pulled over on the highway by a highway patrol when you committed no offense, and then have the officer start "fishing" and asking you questions out of the blue and checking your license, registration, etc. He may win the battle by writing you a ticket, but you'll win the war in court every single time with something like that.

 

[LVTHNT]

You are correct, it is not against the law to have a loaded gun in your vehicle in Arizona. Nothing says you can't do this, but probably not real wise to do so.

This past June I was on a hunt with a friend that received one of the hunter pool buffalo tags on the Kaibab, House Rock Valley hunts. We were told (almost required) to get in the back of the AG&F trucks to hunt. I got pictures of three hunters in back of each of the four AG&F trucks on opening morning. I just couldn't believe that this is the way they were going to ?make? us hunt. I sat on the hill and watched the fiasco as it started in disbelief. Each truck trying to get in the front of the herd before it made its way to the trees. I got some video of a truck going back and forth on a road trying to keep the buffalo in the flats and away from the trees. What joke this was, and a complete disregard for the road hunting rules. This is a free ranging herd and is under all of the wildlife guidelines of all other big game in Arizona, this was not at the buffalo ranch at Raymond that is in an enclosed area.

This is the biggest joke I have ever seen. I can't wait to have a conversation with an officer in the woods about ?road hunting? and pull out my AG&F officer pictures from June and explain what ?road hunting? really is with an officer driving each and every vehicle in my pictures. It will be real fun conversation.