High Fence's are for the weak!

CraigS · Sep 17, 2006

I am sure the High Fence dispute has already been posted on here before but I just keep seeing more & more of these bulls popping up on websites & in photo albums. Frankly, I can't stand this BS.

A good friend of mine just sent me a picture of a bull that his uncle killed in Canada & it scores somewhere around 505 SCI. As soon as I saw the bull I could tell by the antlers that there was a good chance it was a high fenced bull. I called up my buddy & asked him about it & he stated it was in deed a High fenced bull but it was FAIR CHASE hunting. I had to explain to him that it is not possible for a High Fenced bull to be Fair Chase. Anyways, a few days later I heard the feller that killed this bull was stating that it was going to be the new SCI world record & I could do nothing but shake my head.

In my opinion these hunts should only be aloud for the extremely disabled. I just don't see the glorification in these hunts for anyone other than disabled people.

What is going on with the hunting world?
I will tell you my opinion.

Basically, some can't hack it rich guy looks at pictures of all of these big bulls being killed on Fair Chase hunts & can't help but want to get in on the action. He tries for a year or two or ten & realizes it ain't easy. He is too lazy to keep grinding it out like the rest of us, so what does he do, he goes on the internet picks his bull out. He then fly's into the ranch house where the next morning he goes out looking on the 1,000 acre ranch where the bull has been staying all summer & shoots his so called trophy. He takes his pictures & starts sending them to his buddies & tells everyone how hard his hunt was & that it was truly a fair chase hunt.

Am I jealous, ABSOULETLY not! Am I mad about this BS, you bet you @#@! I am an extremest when it comes to my elk scouting & I put in weeks upon weeks of scouting (from the ground). I finally drew an archery elk tag in my home state, after six years of waiting (I know some wait 10-15). I am closing in on the opening day of my season & have scouted almost 30 days since June. I like most of you don't have the money to hunt on private ground & truly enjoy the Public land challenge. I have not found any monsters that I can hunt yet but I have found a few in the 360 range. My sites have been set on something over 380 & I am going to stick with that until the last possible moment. Over the course of my 30 days of scouting I have spent many nights alone & I have probably only seen elk on half of the days in the field. I have traveled mile after mile on foot, fourwheeler & truck during these adventures. I have done it all the right way, the Fair Chase way & can not except the fact that people are calling HIGH FENCED hunting FAIR CHASE!

Am I alone on this one... I am pretty sure you guys will have something to add. Please, post!

woodruffhunter · Sep 17, 2006

If others get excited about shooting a penned elk, I could care less. I won't do it, but I have got other things to worry about.

This is a never ending debate that will never be one. I will say I believe you are doing it the right way

couesbitten · Sep 17, 2006

CraigS, I'm with you on this, and I think that you hit the nail on the head as far as why people do it. I don't know if you've read about the guy in Idaho who let approx. 160 captive elk escape into the wild, but I think that charges should be brought against him for endangering wildlife. Real men hunt wild animals. Scott/couesbitten

polarbear · Sep 17, 2006

Eric

usa · Sep 17, 2006

Hmmmm... I'm one of those rich guy's and I'll guarentee I've got more mile's on my boot's than most including you, I've been chasing big game for over 50 yr's. That being said you're beating a dead horse, why you would waste any time or emotion on something that with all due respect is none of your business ! Take pleasure in the fact that you hunt the way you believe hunting should be done, I just came back from a bowhunt in Wyoming and humped elk quarter's out on my back on public land, doe's that make me a better or worse hunter than the next guy, no, it just give's me great personal satisfaction to do it my way.There's no end to disagreement's in our sport, chevy/ford..stickbow or recurve...or God help us CROSSBOW"S, compounds and 4 wheeler's and road hunters the list is endless.Try channeling your energy in positive way's , it's the weak person who choose's to hate rather than trying to understand anything outside of their narrow view on what's right.To each his own as long as it's legal !

huntindude · Sep 17, 2006

Maybe it shouldn't be legal, this is a subject that should be looked at and hunters have every right to voice an opinion on it as it effects hunting in general and has alredy hurt wild herds in a few cases . captive private owned elk can be raised in Oregon but not hunted( shot is a better word ) so most are shipped out of state to be shot. Montana has passed laws that will someday end it I believe? I too could afford it but it's all a bunch of crap and anyone who takes any part in it is a poor excuse for a hunter in my opinion.

Warren · Sep 17, 2006

When an elk has an SCI score, that is usually a tip off. This type of garbage will try to end hunting as we know it because the general public equates fences to canned hunts. Anyone that would fence in a majestic creature like an elk should we whipped on the town square. Fair Chase or play golf.

Cookie2 · Sep 18, 2006

USA, I believe it is every HUNTER'S business to look at this issue long and hard. Whrn a "fat cat" can use his prosperity to get what the rest of us have to work our butts off to get something is going the wrong way. It looks to me like we are going back in time to when ONLY the rich could hunt. On these canned hunts.... do what you think is right, but please, respect the redt of us and don't even try to pass it off as fair chase. If an elk can't put miles between himself and an annoyance because a fence is in his way it is NOT fair chase. It seems that that the stock answer to any debate anymore is "there is no end to disagreements." When are we as hunters going to wake up and see that some of the disagreements are worth fixing, instead of putting our heads in the sand and hoping it will go away? Do you really think that the anti's won't use high fence hunt's as a way to show our children that hunting is a savage activity? Anyway, that is what I think. Do what you want because you will anyway.

CraigS · Sep 18, 2006

This subject maybe a dead horse but as cookie said it can be one that comes back to bite us in the rear end. Anti's are using this against us & it is working. If the people that so-called hunt on these places want to call it butchering (just like a beef), than I am fine with that but when they start using hunting & fair chase as a word to describe this type of activity, it gets under my skin. And if you don't think some joe blow off the streets would take a look at this & go, Hmm hunters are lazy SOBs & the only thing they want to do is kill, than you need to look in the mirror.

Hopefully, some more will chime in.

Idahoelk · Sep 18, 2006

Yeah let live! what a load of BS. High fenced canned hunts are an abomination, a vile loathsome practice that no more resemles hunting than sleeping with a hooker represents love.
Anyone who hunts and wants to preserve the rights to hunt should be strongly aligned against Canned shoots.
Since we have an ag dept that allows it all the failed of shutdown ranches from other states end up here. Rulon Jones is the latest. He had a 500 class bull escape his enclosure 2 weeks ago, but you'll never hear about it cause Rammel up by Yellowstone park had 160 escape. Do all you so called hunters that don't care about these operations care now. Now that there are lots of tamies running around at the peak of the rut breeding with the wild Yellowstone Elk. Rammels elk are said to have the red deer genetics mixed in. So our wild herds will be genetically altered forevermore but nobody sees a problem!!!!! Wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pre64 · Sep 18, 2006

Well said Idahoelk!!!

Calling these things canned "hunts" is an insult to every sportsman who buys a tag. Canned shoots or kills might be more accurate.

I don't think this is a class/money issue. Affluence provides all sorts of advantages; guides, time, stuff, private land, trespass fees, etc. I won't fault someone for doing well for himself. This, however, is an ethics issue. Further, this practice reflects very very poorly on all hunters and will erode our hunting privlidges and heritage. If someone can afford a canned kill then they can afford a nice lodge. Canned kills are BS.

Lien2 · Sep 18, 2006

usa -
You must have a hard time finding a hat with an ego that big?!

Lien2

WIDOW_MAKER · Sep 18, 2006

I'd rather never shoot a wild bull elk than to shoot penned bull. I don't understand people who go on high fenced hunts. They are for the weak and they are "GAY" hunts.

WIDOW_MAKER

Smiley · Sep 18, 2006

Rammels Elk have been tested to be pure elk . Thier roots come from the yellowestone herd . I do not agre with these canned hunts . There is just to much that can go wrong with enclosed wildlife that we do not find out till it is to late.
Rammel has a vendetta with F@G since they killed one of his prized bulls a few years ago when they ran it thru a chute and its antlers caught and ripped its head open and died and they said all well .
The whole situation stinks. Pluss the fact that fish and game has killed wild elk inadvertantly while in a holding pen .

usa · Sep 19, 2006

Lien2, you confuse me, I reread my reply and can't for the life of me figure out where you think I have a big ego. I simply stated the facts as I perceive them . I can afford anything I want but I choose to hunt alone on public land and I'm usually successful. I've never been on a Canned hunt but if I chose to go on one I wouldn't care what you or any of these namecalling zealot's thought.You all complain bitterly when it's convienent for you but most of you never do anything to try to change the law's except #####. most Game and Fish dept's will tell you that hunter participation at meetings is weak.Everyone know's what the anti's think of us and what they can use in their propaganda, complaining about it on this forum doesn't accomplish anything except to further divide the hunting fraternity pitting one faction against another. united we would be invincible but that will never happen partly because of the small mind's spewing their hate rather than having a civil intelligent discussion.Hunting is becoming less popular every year and we are not recuiting enough young people to keep it alive all we do is fight amongst ourselve's !!and before you ask the question,yes I participate in lawmaking session's, I'm a former master instructor in the Bow hunting education program and I introduce young people to our sport every year, what have you done to further our sport !! your turn

Cookie2 · Sep 20, 2006

USA, My hat is off to you. I also reread your reply and I have to admit that I read some things into it that were not there. Congratulations on being an instructor, this is something I am passionate about but do not know the first step towards initiating in my home state (NM) I admire your decision to hunt on public land even though you have the means to go where ever you could. You are not one of the people I was referring to. I do not truly know what I would do in your situation if I was unsuccessful in the draw. I like to think I would resist the temptation but I honestly do not know. I will tell you that I would only do it with a bow because I absolutely love the thrill of getting close to these magnificent animals.

huntindude · Sep 20, 2006

If you're going to hunt high fence you might as well use a bow. they're easy to call in close, just shake the grain bucket.

BANNOCK1877 · Sep 20, 2006

FWP Prepared To Shoot Escaped Elk From Idaho Private Game Preserve

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks officials will attempt to destroy any of the domestic elk that recently escaped from an eastern Idaho private game preserve if they are found in Montana, agency officials said today. Licensed hunters also could legally take the escaped animals.

As many as 160 domestic elk may have escaped in August from a fenced, privately owned game preserve near Rexburg, Idaho, about 10 miles east of the southwest corner of Yellowstone National Park and about 50 miles south of the Montana border.

While none of the animals are believed to be in Montana at this time, under Montana law escaped animals from such facilities that are not recaptured within five days become the property of the state and may be legally killed by officials or harvested by licensed hunters. Montana?s archery season opened Sept. 2 and Montana?s general elk season will open Oct. 22.

The escaped elk reportedly have small silver ear tags with identification numbers that should correspond with Idaho records. The domestic elk may have a tattoo or a hole in the ear where the animal may have been tagged.

Tim Feldner, FWP?s commercial wildlife permitting manager, said Idaho and Wyoming wildlife and law enforcement officials are attempting to locate the animals and carry out special shoot orders issued in their states. Wildlife officials are concerned that the domestic elk could mingle and breed with the states? wild elk.

"We?re asking Montana hunters to notify FWP if they take one of these domestic elk, " Feldner said. If the domestic elk are destroyed by FWP officials, or taken by hunters, samples of the escaped elk will be examined for disease and genetic testing. Anyone with information on the escaped elk can call Feldner at 406-444-4039.

cmiddleton · Sep 20, 2006

well so much for the nice posts in a row record 3 nice posts 1 bad

YukonDall · Sep 20, 2006

HEY USA, I'M WITH YOU ON MOST OF WHAT YOU HAVE STATED. EXCEPT...... THAT HUNTING IS GROWING BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS, NOT ON THE DECLINE. IN MY STATE ALONE WE HAVE 2.5 TIMES THE LICENSE HUNTERS THAT WE DID 10 YEARS AGO. ITS ALSO REPORTED MOST STATES NUMBERS REFLECT THESE SAME GROWING TRENDS. THE DIFFICULTY IN GETTING TAGS, DRAWINGS, POINTS ECT. WILL TIP OFF MOST HUNTERS AS TO GROWING NUMBERS. LOTS OF PEOPLE/ LOTS OF COMPETITION, I DONT SEE HUNTING ON THE DECLINE AT ALL. HOWEVER, AT TIMES I WISH IT WAS. YD.

Gator · Sep 20, 2006

I wonder if you shoot one of those escaped bull elk if you have to use your tag, or if they will give another tag to take a legal wild bull.

antlerrick · Sep 20, 2006

Hey usa, I think a lot of us took your post the wrong way. I was with lien2 also but after re-reading it I must say you are ok. I still support lien2's post and think it was all a mistaken point taken.
Like you said, all hunters need to stick together, rather than disagree with simple things that don't matter in the big picture... I'm not a fan of high fence "shoots", but they are way out of my league anyway, and not something I would participate in myself...All is good!!

Zigga · Sep 20, 2006

usa,

I think the part where you said "I can afford anything I want..." made people think you might have a big ego. Just my opinion. I didn't think that though.

But just for the record, high fences are real bad. They are a huge risk and they don't benefit anyone but the owner operator. The money doesn't get back to hunting and conservation where we need it.

usa · Sep 21, 2006

Hey guy's thank's for the turnaround, maybe there's hope for us yet.I've lived and loved this sport all of my life to the point of obsession and I hope you all can keep the spirit flowing into the next generation, GOD Bless, Bill... P S I'm leaving tomorrow for a new mexico bowhunt for elk, you can't get to much of a good thing !

Billdog · Sep 21, 2006

Let me start by saying I would never participate in a canned-hunt. However I am not going to tell somebody what to do on their land with their property. I saying you guy posting about the genetic and health dangers. I guess that I am just ignorant because I don't understand what you are talking about. Somebody want to enlighten me.