Trumpcare's CBO Score is out

NeMont

NeMont

Long Time Member
Messages
12,632
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-17 AT 01:51PM (MST)[p]Almost immediately 14 million fewer people covered by 2018. 24 million by 2026. Does reduce deficits by $357 Billion by 2026. Predicts rapidly rising insurance premiums until 2020.

For you True Trump believers be prepared for an explanation that can't be understood about why this beautiful and wonderful and terrific plan does nothing what he promised. No surprise but at some point people will catch on.


 
Do we need to remind you of the CBO score was for Obama Care? CBO is a joke. Just send them some fabricated numbers and presto.
 
Do you remember how Republicans used the CBO score to fight the Obamacare law? Why would it be any different this time?

I realize you will make an excuse for Trump and what he promises, I can never figure out if we are supposed to believe him when states something or not.

He stated it would be cheaper, better and cover everyone. This doesn't do it and everyone knows it except the people who would be losers in such a system.

I am good with what ever, just tell me the rules but don't pretend that his bill does diddly squat for the cost of insurance and if they truly go through it will be fun to watch Trump voters who get their health care taken from them to whine that they didn't know that could happen.

Will there be a political price to pay for voting for this bill? I suspect there will be unless it doesn't get passed by the Republicans, either way, they are in charge now and it is going to be a lesson in how they have little interest in doing the hard work of governing. Remember they will need at least one more bill to get the sales across state lines, high risk pools and other none revenue items that cannot be passed by reconciliation.

That doesn't include tax reform that not Ole Mitch has put off until next year or the Trillion dollar infrastructure bill, the Russian investigation and the investigation into the Trump's accusation that Obama wire tapped him. Nope it will be a tall order to get any of this done and I can't find any votes from Democrats to help this process along.

Imagine a scenario where a Republicans controlled congress shoots down a Republican President most important campaign promises. That will be a fun thing to watch.

Nemont
 
Hey NeMont!

Sounds Like Trump wants you to Have Some Competition!

There's other People out there Wantin 6 F'N Figures in 45 Days!

Pay Close Attention at about 1:05!








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JFP!!!

They Say there's like 5 States with only One Obama Care Provider!

They wouldn't Be Raping People now would they?









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Obama Made it Mandatory To Buy the BS!

Then the F'N Deductibles so F'N high Most People Couldn't Use it/Afford it any F'N way!

WAFJ!!!







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This doesn't sound like cheaper insurance with lower deductibles FOR ALL to me, it doesn't sound " fabulous " or even " Wonderful " .

What gives you orange lipped slurpers?


















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
>
>
>This doesn't sound like cheaper insurance
>with lower deductibles FOR ALL
>to me, it doesn't
>sound " fabulous "
>or even " Wonderful "
>.
>
> What gives you orange lipped
>slurpers?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>Stay Thirsty My Friends

Never Said Trumps Plan is any Better!

But I Sure the HELL Hope it is!

Question dudie?

WTF Good is an Obama Health Insurance Card if the Owner can't pay the F'N Ridiculous Deductibles?

ANSWER PLEASE?










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Have another CROWN dude!

And Then Answer the F'N Question?







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LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-17 AT 05:40PM (MST)[p]Elkass,

Every time I think I have heard the stupidest thing you would ever say you come up with another. Show me where I said I fear having competition you idiot. If you ever contributed anything other than moronic post that have no meaning it would be nice.

You buddy Trump is selling you a lame horse, good luck riding that thing you idiot. Since I suspect you are on Medicare, I hope you like the bill you are about to get. It is going to be fun to watch idiots twist in the wind.

I have been at the health Insurance game for 22 years Trump has been at it for less than 2 months and he will screw it up worse than anyone else as so far.

Nemont
 
>Elkass,
>
>Every time I think I have
>heard the stupidest thing you
>would ever say you come
>up with another. Show
>me where I said I
>fear having competition you idiot.
> If you ever contributed
>anything other than moronic post
>that have no meaning it
>would be nice.
>
>You buddy Trump is selling
>you a lame horse, good
>lick riding that thing you
>idiot. Since I suspect you
>are on Medicare, I hope
>you like the bill you
>are about to get.
>It is going to be
>fun to idiots twist in
>the wind.
>
>I have been at the health
>Insurance game for 22 years
>Trump has been at it
>for less than 2 months
>and he will screw it
>up worse than anyone else
>as so far.
>
>Nemont

Screw it up Worse than your Buddy Obama Huh?

Are You in one of the States that only have one Salesman/Yourself?

When Obama Stuffed that BS Down Americans Throats there Shoulda been an UpRising!

So?

You must of liked the ObamaCare Plan?












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Your Buddy Obama Blowed So GAWD-DAMNED Much Money He had to Create ObamaCare to Help Cover it!

Trump May not get all He wants Done!

But at Least He's Thinking about it!

More than we can say about Obama!








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>Your Buddy Obama Blowed So GAWD-DAMNED
>Much Money He had to
>Create ObamaCare to Help Cover
>it!
>
>Trump May not get all He
>wants Done!
>
>But at Least He's Thinking about
>it!
>
>More than we can say about
> Obama!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Font][Font color = "blue"]I Changed My
>Signature Just for NVB!
>Like 6 Damn Times Now!
+1
 
It is beyond me why Trump is supporting this plan.
It isn't Trumps plan, it's Ryans plan.
As far as I can tell, this plan sucks.

The republicans are making the exact same mistake the democrats made.
This "Health care reform" needs to be done in two parts.
First, before anything to do with insurance, they need to pass major legislation that reduces the cost.
Competition across state lines.
Immigration reform, get the illegals out of the emergency rooms
Pharmaceutical reform, streamline the process and make international sales pay their fair share of the costs of bringing a new product to market
Tort reform
 
>It is beyond me why Trump
>is supporting this plan.
>It isn't Trumps plan, it's Ryans
>plan.
>As far as I can tell,
>this plan sucks.
>
>The republicans are making the exact
>same mistake the democrats made.
>
>This "Health care reform" needs to
>be done in two parts.
>
>First, before anything to do with
>insurance, they need to pass
>major legislation that reduces the
>cost.
>Competition across state lines.
>Immigration reform, get the illegals out
>of the emergency rooms
>Pharmaceutical reform, streamline the process and
>make international sales pay their
>fair share of the costs
>of bringing a new product
>to market
>Tort reform
Once the Obama care plan brings the country down we will be in the soup line and getting health for free.
 
That must be a BIG F'N Round of CROWN?

You Tip Over Dude?







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LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-17 AT 07:46PM (MST)[p]

The reason they don't do any of those things is because they have almost zero affect on rates. At best a percent or two, tort reform is a big red herring.

The reason insurance is expensive is because health care is expensive. Tell me specifically what selling across State lines does to increase competition and bring down costs. If you live in California and buy a policy from Mississippi which states laws apply when you get cross ways with your carrier? Whom do you complain to? More do you want more federal regulation to make that work.

How you guys believe there is a free market for health care?

Our government pays half the entire health care bill through nedicaid, Medicare, indian health service, the VA etc. These programs dramatically affect the other half and there is zero competition that can go up against our government.


So all the gyrations and talk about getting more competition to reduce rates is an exercise in stupidity. You all are getting Grubbered by Trump. He literally is counting on the stupidity of the American voter.

Nemont
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-17
>AT 07:46?PM (MST)
>
>
>
>The reason they don't do any
>of those things is because
>they have almost zero affect
>on rates. At best a
>percent or two, tort reform
>is a big red herring.
>
>
>The reason insurance is expensive is
>because health care is expensive.
> Tell me specifically what
>selling across State lines does
>to increase competition and bring
>down costs. If you
>live in California and buy
>a policy from Mississippi which
>states laws apply when you
>get cross ways with your
>carrier? Whom do you complain
>to? More do you
>want more federal regulation to
>make that work.
>
>How you guys believe there is
>a free market for health
>care?
>
>Our government pays half the entire
>health care bill through
>nedicaid, Medicare, indian health service,
>the VA etc. These
>programs dramatically affect the other
>half and there is zero
>competition that can go up
>against our government.
>
>
>So all the gyrations and talk
>about getting more competition to
>reduce rates is an exercise
>in stupidity. You all
>are getting Grubbered by Trump.
> He literally is counting
>on the stupidity of the
>American voter.
>
>Nemont

And They Might Be Stupid!

Nut Not Stupid enough to Vote Hillary in!

Now a Few of You are Pissed about it!










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>Immigration reform, get the illegals out
>of the emergency rooms
Nemont, do you have any idea what this would do to the cost of health care ?


>Pharmaceutical reform, streamline the process and
>make international sales pay their
>fair share of the costs
>of bringing a new product
>to market
How about this, there are any number of Pharmaceuticals that cost 50 to 90% less in other countries, why is that ?
Are the Pharmaceutical companies willingly loosing billions ? Or is it possable to decrease the cost in America ?


>Tort reform
So the cost of medical malpractic insurance is nothing, funny so many doctors dis agree with you.

Competition across state lines
So ....... can you tel me why it would be a bad thing ??????
 
Pharmaceutical companies own congress. Even with immigrations reforms there will still be 11 millions illegal here and it will take years to reduce the costs associated with them.

Selling across state lines is used to fool stupid people into thinking they will get cheaper insurance. It takes a long time to builds networks, get providers to participate, market plans and get people to switch.

Tort reform is a Republican talking point and nothing more.
Like I said Trump is counting on the same thing Gruber did, the stupidity of the American voter.

Nemont
 
"Like I said Trump is counting on the same thing Gruber did, the stupidity of the American voter."........

.......which is actually a pretty safe bet.
 
The stupidity of 48% of the voters is on full display.


The problem is you can't cut the end off of a stick and glue it on the other end and say you made it longer. there are more needs than money. either someone goes without or the rest of us pay more. play games if you must but at the end of the day you can only fool idiots.





Trump made promises he couldn't keep and only his mouthbreathers ever believed in the first place . he then instructed congress to do his work for him since he had not a clue . they came out with a lame plan with no hope of being passed. Trump loves it and considers it " tremendous " . and here we are.


Does anyone even care what he promised and how far short this plan is ?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...romises/ar-AAojptD?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp









Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Nemont I strongly disagree with you about being able to go across state lines will not drive cost down.
Instead of a few select insurance companies controlling insurance sales within a state, it will open the market to more companies to complete for those sales.

The insurance client will be able to shop more companies for the best policy that will fit his budget. As a result the insurance companies will have to provide better coverage at a rate where they can beat other companies out for the sale to the client or suffer sales lost.

Competition nearly always give the buyer a better deal then having very little competition and being able to control the price to the consumer.

It might even chip into your profit margin that is paid you by the insurance companies for steering clients to them and getting a percentage cut.

RELH
 
Nemont's been involved in health insurance for 22 years. No wonder why he doesn't want Obamacare repealed, he probably didn't have any customers until people were forced to buy it.
 
Selling across state lines would allow people to avoid state mandates that they don't need. The states with the most mandates would lose buyers of health insurance to states with better plans.
I don't know if MT has a lot of mandates but I bet Nemont does.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-17 AT 06:00AM (MST)[p]See here is the stupidity of the American voter on display at it's finest. I was in this business prior to Obamacare and did great. Obama care cut into my profits three ways. It reduced the number of carriers who were in my market, it decreased my total commissions and increased my work load with uncompensated cases that end up qualifying for Medicaid. Those people take the same amount of work.

If it goes back to more insurance companies, more choices that only helps me because more carriers means the companies increase commissions in order to get guys like me to represent their products to my clients. Now that there are 25% fewer brokers selling health insurance than prior to ACA, I am in a good spot but I guess you all prove the Gruber rule.

As for selling across state lines and increasing the number of carriers that simply isn't going to do diddly squat because it does zero to the cost of care. Insurance isn't expensive because of the lack of insurance carriers it is expensive because health care is expensive.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...ork/?partner=yahootix&yptr=yahoo#24dc662a1a62

I don't really give two shiiits if they do open it up to sell across state lines it won't reduces cost nut it might increase my commissions.

Nemont
 
The whole Republican plan is to turn most of the control of healthcare back to the States and get the Feds out of controlling 1/5 to 1/6 of our economy.

Trump plans is beautiful Nemont and they are a long ways from negotiating a final plan. Just stop your BS'ing and hide and watch. For an insurance person you sure have some darn weird liberal hallucinations.

We need less Federal Control not more!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-17 AT 09:14AM (MST)[p]

>The whole Republican plan is to
>turn most of the control
>of healthcare back to the
>States and get the Feds
>out of controlling 1/5 to
>1/6 of our economy.
>
>Trump plans is beautiful Nemont and
>they are a long ways
>from negotiating a final plan.
>Just stop your BS'ing and
>hide and watch. For an
>insurance person you sure have
>some darn weird liberal hallucinations.
>
>
>We need less Federal Control not
>more!

Stoned

Once again see the Gruber rule and learn how to read. You have about the same caliber as elkass when it comes to adding any value to anything.

Do this you moron find where I championed federal control. As a welfare king on Medicare you have nothing but a negative impact on everyone under age 65 and in the individual market. So keep taking with both hands from Uncle Sam and your grand children and whining about federal control while sucking the Medicare tit. What hypocrite.

Nemont
 
Here you go. Need to get rid of all advertising to old near deads for scooters, chair lifts and free pee tubes. Need to stop allowing lawyers and pharma to advertise at all. If we don't use Medicare at all which we don't then you know some old ##### like Tog is driving the costs up.

If the 1% is driving all of the costs then let that 1% die. Let the churches take care of the cost or let them have a shot and put them out of their misery. If you are over 80 and break your hip you are a clumsy dumbass. Just get used to a wheelchair. No free implants or transplants after 80.

Death can be a benefit to society in general. Stop making like we have to save everyone on earth.
 
>Here you go. Need to get
>rid of all advertising to
>old near deads for scooters,
>chair lifts and free pee
>tubes. Need to stop allowing
>lawyers and pharma to advertise
>at all. If we don't
>use Medicare at all which
>we don't then you know
>some old ##### like Tog
>is driving the costs up.
>
>
>If the 1% is driving all
>of the costs then let
>that 1% die. Let the
>churches take care of the
>cost or let them have
>a shot and put them
>out of their misery. If
>you are over 80 and
>break your hip you are
>a clumsy dumbass. Just get
>used to a wheelchair. No
>free implants or transplants after
>80.
>
>Death can be a benefit to
>society in general. Stop making
>like we have to save
>everyone on earth.

Not sticking up for Tog but I doubt a multi millionaire is on Medicaid.
 
>Not sticking up for Tog but
>I doubt a multi millionaire
>is on Medicaid.


Medicare not Medicaid and Tog isn't on either of those.
 
In this case I agree with Glen. life is not priceless so let's put a limit on medicare payments. when you reach your lifetime limit you're cut off it makes perfect sense. but what political party or politician would touch that with a 10 foot pole ? grey panthers like RELH and Eel would go ballistic.


Now a 10 year old kid? yeah phuk him he's on his own.




This bill or anything similar is DOA. so now what?











Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
>In this case I agree with
>Glen. life is not
>priceless so let's put a
>limit on medicare payments.
> when you reach your
>lifetime limit you're cut off
> it makes perfect sense.
> but what political party
>or politician would touch that
>with a 10 foot pole
>? grey panthers like
>RELH and Eel would go
>ballistic.
>
>
> Now a 10 year old
>kid? yeah phuk him
>he's on his own.
>
>
>
>
> This bill or anything similar
>is DOA. so now
>what?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay Thirsty My Friends
Teach the young about home care for the Elderly.
 
Glen,

So was Sister Sarah Palin just blowing smoke when she went on the "death panels" tirade and made that the Republican rallying cry?

Which Republican would run on reducing medicare or capping it in any fashion?

Here is where you are going to see a hit to both Trump and the Republican congress.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...p_administration/trump_approval_index_history

His Strongly approve number is down 8% already and his strongly disapprove number is up 9%. The political price is going to be steep and only the true died orange believers think his numbers don't matter.

He could still snatch victory but he has a problem of his own creation. He has congress chasing phantom wire taps instead of trying to get health care passed.

Nemont
 
Well, if we get death panels I am all for it. If there is zero hope for a decent existence then why prolong the inevitable? If Trump wants to make an impact he can go for means testing and some reform of advertising laws and just last for one term. If no one is willing to skin the cat then we all know we will end up in a depression darker that the 30's. Old people are a selfish lot and most of them cling to life far too long. I would exclude anyone under 80 for a start. You are right about the guts of politicians and it will never happen but it needs to.
 
I agree with you on the bill Nemont but I think the wire tap crap is doing exactly what it intended to do. this bill has no chance of passing so get people to look the other direction.




This is where class warfare is a reality. and where your values and conscience are tested. the Trumpcare bill is clearly designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

Typical republican politics right? yes. but the catch is Trump won by promising the moon to traditional blue voters. now he's trying to convince them cutting their own throats is better than being " beautifully covered " as he promised . good luck.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...-under-republicans-health-care-plan.html?_r=0



Cotton has warned republicans passing this bill may cost them the majority in 2018. that's a damn safe assumption so it leaves Trump out to dry.






Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-17 AT 08:56AM (MST)[p]Glen

fair enough but I can't see anything like that happening any time soon

Tog,

We shall see I guess on the wire tapping.


The rest of the Trump believers don't know what they don't know. 75.5% of the population get their coverage through plans that have nothing to do with State regulations: Medicare, medicaid, IHS, Tricare, VA, Federal Employee Health Plan, Large Employer Self funded ERISA trusts. All currently exist and use care throughout the United States, across state lines and their costs are high. How do you explain that?

How do you have a free market if 75.5% of people are not subject to the same rules? How is there a free market when more than half of all health care payments comes from the Government.

We have all heard of these counties with only one choice of health insurance companies. Do any of you know how many counties in the untied states have one choice of Hospitals? 937 as of 2016, yet nary a word about that but increasing choices of health insurance companies will drive down costs? That is a red herring of red herring, proving the Gruber rule lives on still.

Nemont
 
Nemont said;
?The reason insurance is expensive is because health care is expensive.?

This belief or train of thought is exactly why health care (and many other things) are so expensive. The belief that ?that's just what it costs, and there's nothing we can do about it?.

The entire health care industry is overloaded with waste, in-efficiency, fraud and massive amounts of money going to people who have nothing to do with actual health care.

There is a war going on within the health care industry, a war between the people who provide health care and the people who pay the bills. This war is very costly, and the average citizen is collateral damage in this war.

We can go back and forth about what good this or that would do, but the bottom line is we will never know how much we can save on health care until we start doing something different.
 
>Well, if we get death panels
>I am all for it.
>If there is zero hope
>for a decent existence then
>why prolong the inevitable? If
>Trump wants to make an
>impact he can go for
>means testing and some reform
>of advertising laws and just
>last for one term. If
>no one is willing to
>skin the cat then we
>all know we will end
>up in a depression darker
>that the 30's. Old people
>are a selfish lot and
>most of them cling to
>life far too long. I
>would exclude anyone under 80
>for a start. You are
>right about the guts of
>politicians and it will never
>happen but it needs to.
>
It all boils down to money doesn't it? speak for yourself.
 
Anaconda,

Can you find where I said to do nothing? I said the reforms that would work are off the table because nobody is going to be for cuts to medicare. Nobody is going to actually take away medicaid.

The laws governing the Hospitals and Doctors are not going to be repealed.

The new proposed law doesn't allow life time limits, preexisting conditions, underwriting to weed out the sick or does much of anything to allow for cost control. Whether you want to admit it or not there isn't enough small group an individual out there to matter and the big government programs are on auto pilot and there are no politicians who are going to take away people's free cheese. Period.

Lot's can be done, just nobody wants to look in the mirror and see that the person looking back at them is part of the problem. It is always somebody else.

Nemont
 
I'm not involved in health care. I do however provide the best plan for my employees. The max out of pocket increases every year to help cover costs.

Nem since you're in the business how can it be fixed? To be fair for everyone involved and for prices to flatten out or decrease? Not increase anymore
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-17 AT 10:43AM (MST)[p]
It is a little bit like AA, first admit what the real problems are. Costs of care matters, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. The reason for high costs are many but part of the issue is that our government has socialize medicine for a huge segment of the population. They consume about 65% of care but want to pay only 50% of the the bill. That 15% shifts to the insured population, then the insured population also absorbs the costs of the uninsured population.

So due to rules, regulations, laws and how they are administered, the costs to the average insurance consumer is steep.

We can mess with all the whistle and bells and have an affect at the margins but we need to step back and look at the entire system. Why is that nearly every other country in the world has a socialized system? Are we so much smarter and better than other developed world countries? Why do we accept a socialized system for the elderly and handicapped but not others?

We have to admit to ourselves that we don't shop for health care like we do for anything else. We don't stop the ambulance on the way the hospital to ask which facility they are taking us to and what it costs. We don't shop for our surgeries from the cheapest source, we want the top surgeon we can find. Health care is the one place where increased capacity doesn't result in lower costs. If you have two hospitals and one builds a cardiac center, in order to "compete" the other does as well, it doesn't increase the number of cardiac cases but there are hard bricks and mortar costs to that building. Those costs get passed along to those with coverage.

So first admit what the real problems are.

Nemont
 
I don't know if I would ##### about losing Medicare or not. I've been on it for 3 years and haven't used it yet. Two years ago I got a letter saying my doctor was moving to another state, so I don't even have a doctor. I heard you can't find one around here. I guess I'll go to Urgent Care and wait in line with the illegals if I get sick. At least I paid into it for 40+ years, and they still take out $105/month out of my SS, plus I'm paying $114/month for a supplemental policy. Plan G.

Sorry I'm such a problem to the health care system.
 
Eel,

Are you denying that the average Medicare Recipient doesn't consume more care then the general population? We can find exceptions to every rule but on average medicare recipients use far more. It comes with aging.

Average cost per medicare participant per year in the United States: $10,321

It isn't that I begrudge you the coverage because as you point out you paid in. What bugs me is people on Medicare work hard to keep their socialized program and want to throw the younger generations under the bus. They are going to pay for it, not you. Your forty years of paying went out the door almost as fast as it came in.

I know Elkass can't stand facts or charts but here is one that is both facts in the form of the chart.

4.12.5-figure1_1.png


Nemont
 
>Eel,
>
>Are you denying that the average
>Medicare Recipient doesn't consume more
>care then the general
>population? We can find
>exceptions to every rule but
>on average medicare recipients use
>far more. It
>comes with aging.
>
>Average cost per medicare participant per
>year in the United States:
>$10,321
>
>It isn't that I begrudge you
>the coverage because as you
>point out you paid in.
> What bugs me is
>people on Medicare work hard
>to keep their socialized program
>and want to throw the
>younger generations under the bus.
> They are going to
>pay for it, not you.
> Your forty years of
>paying went out the door
>almost as fast as it
>came in.
>
>I know Elkass can't stand facts
>or charts but here is
>one that is both facts
>in the form of the
>chart.
>
>
4.12.5-figure1_1.png

>
>Nemont
Just get rid of the whole Mother F%cken health care system and welfare and only pay 5% tax,there you go.
 
Americans needs to ask themselves one question, "Do I want healthcare focused on care, cost and prevention or profit?"

California will now be exploring setting up their own Single-Pay system so there is still hope for your wallet Eel.

How much longer will we continue to fail at this until we finally join the all the other industrialized nations on this planet?
 
>Eel,
>
>Are you denying that the average
>Medicare Recipient doesn't consume more
>care then the general
>population? We can find
>exceptions to every rule but
>on average medicare recipients use
>far more. It
>comes with aging.
>
>Average cost per medicare participant per
>year in the United States:
>$10,321
>
>It isn't that I begrudge you
>the coverage because as you
>point out you paid in.
> What bugs me is
>people on Medicare work hard
>to keep their socialized program
>and want to throw the
>younger generations under the bus.
> They are going to
>pay for it, not you.
> Your forty years of
>paying went out the door
>almost as fast as it
>came in.
>
>I know Elkass can't stand facts
>or charts but here is
>one that is both facts
>in the form of the
>chart.
>
>
4.12.5-figure1_1.png

>
>Nemont


Hey NeMont!

Don't be a PRICK!

I Love Charts!

I'm Still waitin for a couple of them I asked you about a while back!









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You can make your own charts remember. Why don't you do that again and leave me out of it?

I could care less what you have to say on almost any subject yet like 264 you pipe up ever time. Why not discuss things with him?

Nemont
 
>You can make your own charts
>remember. Why don't you
>do that again and leave
>me out of it?
>
>I could care less what you
>have to say on almost
>any subject yet like 264
>you pipe up ever time.
> Why not discuss things
>with him?
>
>Nemont
(every) time
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-17 AT 01:36PM (MST)[p] Replace NeMonts Green piece of Pie with:

F'Off On MM While Raping Average People out of 6 Figures in just 45 F'N Days!

The Blue Slice looks to be Accurate!



26118piechart.jpg








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Like I said no redeeming value added to any discussion. Not only do you prove the Gruber Rule of the stupidity of the American voter, you show that you have nothing of value to add to anything.

Enjoy your circle jerk, if you wanted to discuss a something I am sure there is some clown on the General forum willing to engage on some mundane topic of no value as well, I suggest going there.

Nemont
 
>Like I said no redeeming value
>added to any discussion.
>Not only do you prove
>the Gruber Rule of the
>stupidity of the American voter,
>you show that you have
>nothing of value to add
>to anything.
>
>Enjoy your circle jerk, if you
>wanted to discuss a something
>I am sure there is
>some clown on the General
>forum willing to engage on
>some mundane topic of no
>value as well, I suggest
>going there.
>
>Nemont

And Tell us all again what Good your Vote was?










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Nemo,

Good job! I don't know what MM would do without you? You are the smartest, well educated (I guess?) dummy on the site.

You always deny that you ever said anything with anyone whom disagrees with you. You sure insinuate and try to make people believe you are conservative when in fact you are nothing but a liberal progressive (in wolf's clothing) trying to negate anything conservative on this blog. You can huff and you can puff and put up all the charts in the world and it doesn't make it true or right. You try to dazzle us with your BS because deep down you are a dirty rat parading around MM acting like the Lord of the Rings. You are a complete scum bag. Is there anything else you want to know about yourself?

Your take on Social Security and Medicare leaves us all wondering what you are really about?
 
>Nemo,
>
>Good job! I don't know what
>MM would do without you?
>You are the smartest, well
>educated (I guess?) dummy on
>the site.
>
>You always deny that you ever
>said anything with anyone whom
>disagrees with you. You sure
>insinuate and try to make
>people believe you are conservative
>when in fact you are
>nothing but a liberal progressive
>(in wolf's clothing) trying to
>negate anything conservative on this
>blog. You can huff and
>you can puff and put
>up all the charts in
>the world and it doesn't
>make it true or right.
>You try to dazzle us
>with your BS because deep
>down you are a dirty
>rat parading around MM acting
>like the Lord of the
>Rings. You are a complete
>scum bag. Is there anything
>else you want to know
>about yourself?
>
>Your take on Social Security and
>Medicare leaves us all wondering
>what you are really about?
>
I was thinking the same thing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-17 AT 09:01AM (MST)[p]
>Nemo,
>
>Good job! I don't know what
>MM would do without you?
>You are the smartest, well
>educated (I guess?) dummy on
>the site.

As compared to you being the independent cowboy on welfare.

>You always deny that you ever
>said anything with anyone whom
>disagrees with you. You sure
>insinuate and try to make
>people believe you are conservative
>when in fact you are
>nothing but a liberal progressive
>(in wolf's clothing) trying to
>negate anything conservative on this
>blog. You can huff and
>you can puff and put
>up all the charts in
>the world and it doesn't
>make it true or right.
>You try to dazzle us
>with your BS because deep
>down you are a dirty
>rat parading around MM acting
>like the Lord of the
>Rings. You are a complete
>scum bag. Is there anything
>else you want to know
>about yourself?

Here is how stupid you are. You said they are returning 1/5 to 1/6 of the U.S. Economy to the States. That is utter nonsense and not even close to true. Of all the people with health coverage, only 7% are covered by plans that have anything to do with States having jurisdiction over them.

>Your take on Social Security and
>Medicare leaves us all wondering
>what you are really about?
>

My take is people like you enjoy Socialism as long as it is going into your own pocket. You don't give two shyts about what you are taking out of the system or what it does to our debt. Yet you want to make sure those not old enough to get medicare or social security, not only pay for you but also have to live in with a system that can kick them off when they need it the most.

You can pretend that calling me a liberal makes me one if that makes you feel good. Of the two of us there is only one of us taking from the two biggest socialized systems in our country and it isn't me. Maybe what we should do is move medicare to a system of privatized care where the companies can pick and choose the healthiest seniors to cover but if you get sick they can decide you cost too much. You are all for that system as long as it doesn't include you, aren't you.

Let me know when you post something conservative because most of what you support has nothing to do with conservatism.


Nemont
 
Could you people just once debate the subject and not who made the post?


You sound just like your hero Trump. clueless.














Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
The clueless seem to be you and Nemo, Tog. This MM blog is almost totally you two guys trying to peddle your bloviating and braggard self righteous know it all crap. You have to look deeper at life's problems and try and grasp the whole picture rather than always arguing the semantics. The nuts and bolts make a strong foundation but your never ending trying to prove your point by information read and charts posted doesn't mean a darn thing to me. You two are the alt left's best allies. All of your moaning , teeth nashing and crying isn't taking you two bums anywhere but down the toilet. You guys fit right in with MSNBC's Rachael Maddow. Maybe you guys can hook up with her and get a job, or at least provide her with the moronic statements you guys always make.
 
Doing a dyke seems more like a welfare cowboy's job. Saddle up and get it done Stoner. Maybe you will find out you are lesbian too.


I get it that information scares the crap out of you, it would require thinking and reasoning. Those two skills have departed the you long ago. None of what you said about Trump's health care plan is accurate, true or factual but hey, say it enough and your own lie will appear to be true.


Be sure to avoid any information. It could lead to having to exam what conservatism actually means and not what you have been told it means but I hold out no hope. Gruber is again proven correct, "count on the stupidity of the American voter", look in the mirror Stoned, Gruber was talking about you.


Nemont
 
Nope I couldn't stand either candidate and for the first time in my life I voted for neither parties candidates. When both are just different sides of a shiit sandwich why vote for either?

The stupid may have voted for Hillary, the really dumb one voted for Trump. Anyone who thinks either of those two could carry any water is truly a Gruber voter, like you.


Nemont
 
>Nope I couldn't stand either candidate
>and for the first time
>in my life I voted
>for neither parties candidates.
>When both are just different
>sides of a shiit sandwich
>why vote for either?
>
>The stupid may have voted for
>Hillary, the really dumb one
>voted for Trump. Anyone
>who thinks either of those
>two could carry any water
>is truly a Gruber voter,
>like you.
>
>
>Nemont


So?

With that Statement you're calling people like dude Names!

GEEZUS!

So NeMont?

Tell Us Again what Good your Vote was?











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My vote keeps me from being complicit in the Shiit show you are so proud. You and Don Peay are two Mormon peas in a pod. It is going to be fun when voters like you figure out that you have been had, by then it will be to late but I will be here to tell, "I told you so".

Nemont
 
>My vote keeps me from being
>complicit in the Shiit show
>you are so proud.
>You and Don Peay are
>two Mormon peas in a
>pod. It is going
>to be fun when voters
>like you figure out that
>you have been had, by
>then it will be to
>late but I will be
>here to tell, "I told
>you so".
>
>Nemont

What Good was your Vote?

ANSWER PLEASE!










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And one more F'N Thing NeMont!

Others had Said If You Didn't Vote For Trump You Were Perty Much Placing a Vote for Hillary!

So!

One F'N Way or another You Voted for Hillary,Right?









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That is total BS. Trump was going to win Montana going away, period. In Utah the Republican party could run trogldytic, drooling numbskull (Chaffetz comes to mind) and you Mormons would run over each other to vote for them just to avoid any use of your brain.

Voting for neither is just that, a vote for neither. When we start electing the president via a popular vote then your idiotic idea may have some merit until that happen, that idea should be stored with your magic underwear and Captain Moroni costume.

Nemont
 
>That is total BS. Trump
>was going to win Montana
>going away, period.
>In Utah the Republican
>party could run trogldytic,
>drooling numbskull (Chaffetz comes to
>mind) and you Mormons would
>run over each other to
>vote for them just to
>avoid any use of your
>brain.
>
>Voting for neither is just that,
>a vote for neither.
> When we start electing
>the president via a popular
>vote then your idiotic idea
>may have some merit until
>that happen, that idea
>should be stored with your
>magic underwear and Captain Moroni
>costume.
>
>Nemont

That Wasn't My Idea or Thoughts!

But that's what everybody Claimed!

Romney woulda been 1,000+ Times better President than Obama!

Problem was He is Mormon!

And Actually Made Money!

There's 2 Things Right there that Won't Garner You a Presidency Seat!

So You Voted for Obama!

And F'N Twice!

GEEZUS!












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Nemo,

Here you go again with your stupid liberal ideologue. The popular vote would allow the major population centers to vote in liberals every time. The Electoral College was put into place by our founding Fathers for a reason. This is beyond your progressive stupidness! Go hump a golf ball. You would be good at that no doubt.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-17 AT 08:00AM (MST)[p]Stoned

You are an idiot. Go back and read what I actually wrote and tell me where I said anything about changing to the popular vote.

Your low IQ twin said not voting for Trump was voting for Hillary. I pointed out to him, and now to you, that with our electoral college that idea is total BS.

Now back to the reason for this post. The healthcare bill is floundering and it is going to be delayed again. Trump can't find enough Republican support for his signature campaign promise because Boehner was right.

I can't help it that you don't like facts and can read and comprehend the written word.

Nemont
 
I've already told you my story (I'm the exception, I understand that).

It's my observation that Americans are obsessed with going to the doctor. I know people who are on medicare and mediciad who live at the doctors office. They go once a month whether they need it or not. And doctors seem to encourage it. The only way to make more money is to see more patients.

Every other ad on TV is for some kind of drug. "Ask your doctor if------is right for you."

And then the next ad is "If you ever took the drug--------call and get in on the lawsuit"

How expensive would it be to put 320 million people on medicare? And where would the money come from?
 
I agree Americans are wimps. people go to the doctor every time they sneeze so there should be at least a $50 cash up front fee for EVERYONE to get in the door. this would eliminate 75% of the healthcare work load.


Putting 320 million people on medicare wouldn't be medicare. it would be outright socialized medicine. and that's where we're going . and we should.


This health care bill is dead. end of story.















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Eel,

Let's scrap medicare and let the free market work for everyone. We can let the animal spirits of the market free to design plans and rate risk in order to have a free market. Can you tell where all the companies will come from that want to enroll seniors, even ones like you for the same rates you pay for Medicare?

I suspect there are whole bunch of conservatives on here who would be whining about the greedy insurance companies if they had to pay a free market price for the same coverage they currently get from medicare. If they could even find a company to accept the risk they present to an insurers bottom line.

Nemont
 
>Eel,
>
>Let's scrap medicare and let the
>free market work for everyone.
>We can let the animal
>spirits of the market free
>to design plans and rate
>risk in order to have
>a free market. Can
>you tell where all the
>companies will come from that
>want to enroll seniors, even
>ones like you for the
>same rates you pay for
>Medicare?
>
>I suspect there are whole bunch
>of conservatives on here who
>would be whining about the
>greedy insurance companies if they
>had to pay a free
>market price for the same
>coverage they currently get from
>medicare. If they
>could even find a company
>to accept the risk they
>present to an insurers bottom
>line.
>
>Nemont

Like you say, other Countries are doing it successfully.(more or less) Other Countries aren't spending their money on a lot of other "more important"(eye roll) issues like the US does though.

I don't see where Trumpcare is going to fix much of anything in the long run.

I think 13 million signed up for Obamacare last year. That means 307 million people didn't. So how is Trumpcare going to save the world? It won't, IMO.
 
Don't we already have a model of what life is like under a single payer system? How's it working for our brave veterans?
 
FTW, I don't know how they got those numbers, but we could probably times it by 1.5 (why take a chance) Plus, like Tog said, an office visit should cost $25-50 (enough to get some skin in the game but not so much to discourage people from going when they need it). Otherwise, I like it.

I actually chose my life's work a large part because my employer offered health care help. It would have been nice to be free of that.
 
>It is beyond me why Trump
>is supporting this plan.
>It isn't Trumps plan, it's Ryans
>plan.
>As far as I can tell,
>this plan sucks.
>
>The republicans are making the exact
>same mistake the democrats made.
>
>This "Health care reform" needs to
>be done in two parts.
>
>First, before anything to do with
>insurance, they need to pass
>major legislation that reduces the
>cost.
>Competition across state lines.
>Immigration reform, get the illegals out
>of the emergency rooms
>Pharmaceutical reform, streamline the process and
>make international sales pay their
>fair share of the costs
>of bringing a new product
>to market
>Tort reform

You can't get anyone out of emergency rooms without repealing EMTALA, and having a fundamental change in the way emergency rooms work. Are we really going to require documentation of legal status/residency, maybe even ability to pay before we treat? What happens when you have an accident or illness and don't happen to have your "papers" with you? Shall we let you die? While those are all great ideas in theory, the ER will always be a big sink of healthcare dollars, and it is a key area where we all pay for the healthcare of others who can't/won't/don't pay for themselves. It's a big driver of inflated healthcare costs (increasing charges to cover the cost of unpaid services), which also drives up insurance premiums/Medicaid/Medicare costs. Unpaid ER care isn't the sole domain of immigrants, uninsured and underinsured citizens are also big contributors.
 
Funny thing for someone who votes against birth control and abortion to say.

I like China's birth policy best.













Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
>I like your birth policy for
>guys like you.....

And is that like the Shirt I seen some Gal Wearing?

"""STUPID PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BREED"""!








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