Elk calling? Elk burnout??

lve2143

Very Active Member
Messages
2,868
Let me preface this by saying I know less about elk calling
than anyone on here.

However, when I was young, I did a whole lot of spring turkey
guiding. The ranch I worked for has some other guides as well
and we did a lot of scouting before season. A couple of the
other guys had their calls in their mouths 24/7 and called to
everything that moved, even from the vehicle. I mentioned to
them that this might not be a good idea, and they'd look at me
like I was feeble minded. Well, when the season would finally
arrive, it would become very apparent that their constant pre=
season calling had educated the birds. Later, when I finally
had the say, I told them to leave their calls at home until
opening morning.

Fast forward to the last couple of years, where I've been lucky
enough to do some elk hunting. I've notice a couple of the guys
I hunt with will cow call to an elk, no matter what. We were
watching a little herd with a couple of Bulls in it two days
before season and one guy was just calling to beat heck. It made
me cringe. Several weeks later myself and one of these guys were
walking off a mountain after deer hunting. We came upon a small
group of cows that had no idea we were there. My gut was to ease
around them and leave them alone. But you can guess what he did,
he pulled out his cow call and started calling to them. We were
standing out in the wide open and of course they looked at us
and spooked.

Are we educating and burning these Elk out by doing things like
this? I would certainly think so. Like I said, I know a fraction
about Elk calling than most of you do. Just looks like to me we
should leave the call at home or in the pack unless we mean
business.

Larry
 
Larry,
There is no question that ABUSE of calls has made these elk a lot wiser than they used to be. Without question, we could all call a little less and sneek a little more. I think that with the new calls that are out anybody can call elk. Knowing when and where to call takes some practice and hanging out with someone that has a little elk savy.

It's always an adventure!!!
 
http:www.elknut.com
Larry- I hear where you're coming from & at times this can be a controversial subject. Too, elk are not as sensitive & fragile to calling as some may feel. It takes quite a bit to completely run elk out of an area, the human smell being the worst. I agree calling foolishly at in opportune times can be frustrating to other hunters & yet hopefully this is a way to learn that it's a big mistake to call at times when elk are looking right at you. You will bump them nearly everytime!

But for a hunter to use calls before the season in hopes to locate animals for an upcoming hunt isn't going to ruin it for that time. Sure the caller may leave & elk show up 30 min later & see nothing, it basicly moves off. In a weeks hunt I've called in many elk several times, both cows & bulls that we'd pass on.

Sometimes guys do get carried away with the calling aspect & need to tone it down, but once they realize their mistakes most make adjustments to certain encounters & therefore better themselves for future encounters!

Calling effectively is truly an art, & there's no bigger adrenalin rush to call bulls into bowrange. It's better to practice for newer ones when possible before the season as oppossed to during the season. (grin)

Have no fear the elk will not go far!!

ElkNut1
 
Larry,

I'd have to agree with you. When I started bowhunting 20 years ago it was very easy to call in elk. That has changed in most units in Colorado. Hunter numbers have increased during bow season which has to be part of the problem. Use of calls has increased dramatically. I went with a friend in unit 61 on the Uncompahgre during archery season this fall (a hard to draw unit with few tags) and it was awesome how well the critters responded. I'm saving points for that unit now.

Fred
 
http:www.elknut.com


Interesting thoughts guys, but one should examine this a little deeper to really see the root of of an issue as "is calling to elk" the reason so many hunters find less & less animals to hunt on OTC land? Is it spooking elk to the point that we should rarely call but ambush instead? In my opinion, absolutely not!

Consider other factors that are more severe reasons why elk or deer aren't found to our liking in plentiful numbers!

Check out Yellowstone or Baniff State parks, even take it a step further & include hard to draw LE Units with few draws available. How do the elk react to calling there? Many hunters call to these elk right off the roads in either of these areas, yet the elk are not bothered but yet stay right there, why?

It's because they aren't being chased after & killed. That's the underlying issue as to why elk are more sensitive to joe blow hunter as oppossed to these more protected hunted areas. These LE Units see few hunters, elk are able to act more naturally, thus much easier to access. So calling at wrong times or just plain calling isn't the problem in areas with elk being easily spooked.

These elk are hunted after by hunters like you & I. If the chance were given to hunt these State Parks in a General Elk Season, at first it would be a slaughter, but in a few years they would wise up & be as difficult to hunt as any OTC unit.

Take wolves! If wolves didn't chase, harrass elk & kill them do you think elk would fear & run away from them? No. No more than cattle spook elk. But put the two together--(calling / killing) & calling gets the blame.

Calling may educate elk to be wise to certain sounds but it's not even close to the constant harrassement & killing of them that pushes them back into difficult to reach places.

Go to LE Units & call till your hearts content, don't chase or kill any & you'll see that you are in them everyday for 10 days straight, don't just take my word for it! (grin)

ElkNut1
 
Elknut,

I'm not sure I follow your logic completely. The animals that get chased or bumped, especially when called, learn very quickly not to respond or even to move away. They'll remember that experience the next time they hear a call. They are somewhat like my neighbors dog. When it barks I yell, throw stuff, or use the BB gun. It learned pretty quick to shut up when it heard me. And to hide. The elk that get killed as a result of calling have a very shallow learning curve. IMO the main difference between now and 20 years ago is that the number of bow and blackpowder hunters has doubled and the use of calls has gone through the roof. Keep in mind My experience is all from my home state of Colorado. As I mentioned above when you go to a premium unit like 61 the whole experience is different and that is a direct result of having fewer hunters. Fewer hunters means less calling and fewer chances to learn about the bogeyman.

Beanman
 
http:www.elknut.com
BeanMan--I totally agree with you for the most part!!(grin)

As a matter of fact your post dang near mirrors my post. I was pretty much saying the same thing! What I'm not saying is that the explosion of elk calls on the market are to blame for guys having trouble calling elk into bowrange during pre-rut--peak rut--post rut times.

Larry was referring to a friend of his calling at odd times & places, I was simply saying that elk are a thicker skinned animal than that, they don't run off quite that easily & simply dissapear forever.

I call pre-season testing out theories & sounds yearly, I also sit with herds that don't know I'm around for hours at a time, many times till midnight. This can be done as soon as elk migrate back into their summer / fall range, they just don't spook easily at those times in comparison to Sept.

So I'm very familiar with what Larry was concerned with, I was sharing info with him that may be of some value on this subject & not to loose any sleep over it!

Have a great day!!--ElkNut1
 
I would have to say not spook them off but will shut them up and not repsond to calls. Especially if they smell or see you and relate the calling to a human. Most elk in the area's I have hunted have done good talking until alot of hunters came into the area. I think when they start putting human scent out the elk know its hunting season.
This year had guys in there blowing bugles all day long and where going straight for the biggest baddest bull on the mountain. I knew from when I first heard it it was another hunter. He started calling like it was a worked up bull of the git go. Also ran into a couple other groups that didnt have any knowledge how to hunt them. But all years are not like that but it happens.
But i do not feel the elk got pushed out of area as also I found sign of elk but nothing else. Same with your area. They are not stupid animals.


fca2e9e9.jpg
 
http:www.elknut.com


JB--Yes I sell elk calls. I started carrying them 3 years ago after our Instructional elk videos came out. Many inquired about the very calls we use so I started carrying those & those only. We're not wallmart, we don't carry anything other than what we use ourselves. I can also tell you we don't sell a fraction of them in comparison to large Companies.

I hope you're not insiuating that the only reason I metioned calls not being the real problem in Larrys question was for personal gain.

The use of calls here is not the problem most hunters face. All brands can be used to call elk effectively. The problem lies in the use or abuse of ones calls because of his or hers lack of knowledge when to use certain sounds under certain encounters. Most hunters can bugle or scream a 3 note bugle or they can cow call & that about sums it up for most, not all but most.

This is the reason so many hunters bump elk through the use of elk sounds, it's not so much that they're educating them because of their great use of their calls, it's because most hunters do not recognize what they're hearing when elk are vocal, this goes for cows & bulls alike. Too, they don't know how to respond or how to use certain sounds that are non-threating but yet still get elk to respond vocally or by just showing up. The wrong sound will raise a "red flag" in a bulls / cows mind, especially so if your like us & hunt Public Land only.

Getting elk to respond to ones calls is the easy part, once this is done you are in the drivers seat if you understood what he said. This way if you choose to respond back you do it in such a way that makes total sense to the bull/cow. Not just blurt out some limited elk sound that worked before at some other time.

If you're in the category of folks that have a pretty fair handle on elk sounds then you can apprecieate what I'm saying.

There are many sounds that if only hunters could use & recognize them would give them tremendous edge & confidence in their abilities to communicate with elk when needed.

For example, Bulls use certain sounds for Challenging another bull, they use sounds for Advertisement towards cows, Round-up bugles collecting the harem together for quick flight. They use certain sounds when calling a cow over that is fairly close but can't be seen. If you've ever cow called & a bull has responded then you know that sound. There are many other recognizable sounds they make as well as cows sounds. Most do not know many of these sounds which limits them considerably therefore spit out elk sounds they know. Thus speaking jibberish as far as elk are concerned, this is what spooks elk, they can pick out an impostor when in close, immedieately a red flag is raised in their eyes & they're on the defense.

Belive me I've seen it happen tons of times. You'll bump a whole lot less elk if you understood them & responded back accordingly. I could go on & on with tons of elk sounds & what they mean but you get the point!

ElkNut1
 
I agree with alot of what has been already said. Some thing that has really contributed to alot of my success also has been to hunt and concentrate on areas many people pass up to get to spots many other hunters are working. It seems that alot of mentality is that if other hunters are there , then surely there must be elk, thus comes many hunters headed to the same area to rally for the same few animals , and this allows me to get into other areas populated with elk that are not so call shy.
 

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