Huntin'Fool Mngmnt Bull!!

[PleaseDear]

Ya got your new issue of Huntin'Fool?

Page 111, last row, middle photo.. thats a true 5x5 and would be very Legal.. save your points.. ect. under the new Utah mngmnt bull tags.....

Warb... doesn't your buds-Ryan '06 bull be a legal save your points 5x on one side bull... if he got it in Utah? ya know...

Robb

 

[bobcatbess]

YOU KNOW FOR THE MOST PART!!!

WHO THE HELL WANTS A BUSTED UP BULL THAT MIGHT NOT BE BUSTED UP NEXT YEAR???

NOW THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE BUT TO FIND A HUGE 5 X WHATEVER THAT AIN'T BUSTED UP IS A FRICKEN JOKE!!!

MANAGEMENT BULLS MY ASS!!!

SORRY wiley!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING WE ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH PRESSURE IN THE L.E. UNITS!!!

 

[jims]

I think having most of the mgt bull hunts in mid Nov after the bulls have been fighting and have broken off tines is asking for trouble. I know there would be conflicts with the other seasons having this hunt earlier but it only makes sense if the UDW wants to cull out true 5x's rather than broken pt bulls.

 

[WARBIRDUM]

Robb,
Ryans bull would fall under the new management bull rules it was a 5x6, 57 inch main beam scored around 340.The bull was not busted anywhere.I do think during those later management hunts we will see bulls being taken that have one or more points broken that would have been 380 type bulls if not broken.I guess we will just have to see what happens.The one thing that worries me about this hunt is bulls that should or thought to be 5 on one side that were broke will be put on the ground.Bulls that would go 360 or larger will be taken just because of a broken tine.I guess we will just have to see what happens after the hunts are complete.How many bulls will be taken?How many bulls will qaulify as 5 point bulls that were broken?How many bulls will be left to rot because of mistakes not counting all points?These are just a few of my concerns on this new hunt.

 

[proutdoors]

The UDW is NOT trying to cull out true 5X5's, they are trying to lower the bull/cow ratios. The five point restriction was put in place to try and keep us horn hunters happy. The dwr wants to lower the bull/cow ratio and if they can do it with out lowering the quality then great, if not they don't really care. They are trying this as an alternitive to raising the number of LE tags and lowering the quality. I like this tag even though I have no intention of putting in for it. This is a bone being thrown out for the meat hunters who claim to be happy chasing smaller bulls and having no great desires to chase monsters.

 

[UGAhunter]

Meat hunters should be shooting spikes and young cows, not stinky old rutting pisscutters!

Issuing 5-7 management tags won't make a bit of a difference in the bull:cow ratio. Give me a break. To really make a difference they need to kill half the bulls (lower the ratio from 1:1 to 1:2). Alternatively, they could allow spike only hunting every other year. Spike hunting is keeping all the other LE units in check. They could make it a late season rifle hunt so it doesn't interfere with all the trophy hunting going on earlier.

Because of the way this was rammed through I have a feeling there is something a bit more sinister coming down the pipe on this one, but not sure what it is. Perhaps some sort of outfitter allocated management tags?

 

[ElmerFudd]

They must figure the monster 5x5's make up a small enough percentage of the bulls to not make a difference. If you went after one of those or nothing, odds are pretty good you will be eating tag soup. But busted up ones (before or after the shot) could turn out to be a real problem.

 

[proutdoors]

If they kill half the bulls, what do you think will happen to the quality? Do you think only the 'bad gene' bulls will be killed? The reason the DWR is not going to kill half the bulls is because it has taken to long to get the quality up to just wipe it all out in one year. Yes they probably could issue more tags, in fact they will. They have increased the number of tags every year and will again this year.

Spike tags are NOT the answer for bull/cow ratios. The units with spike tags still have higher than desired ratios. I say get rid of the spike tags and isssue MORE LE tags and kill the same number of bulls. This way those happy killing a 300-350 bull can hunt some of the 'lesser' units while the DWR manages some as premium units for those of us holding out for that bull of a lifetime. Think of the number of LE tags they could issue for the Manti unit if they did away with spike tags. Same with the Wasatch, Boulder, Beaver, Fish Lake, etc..

 

[UGAhunter]

Prout, please do tell. What LE elk units have Bull:cow approaching 1:1 that also have a spike only general tag?

I happen to agree with your above post regarding scrapping the spike hunts and increasing tag #s. BUT, if there is an issue of a ratio WAY out of wack (ie. 1:1) then a lot of bulls need to be killed so that they can eliminate cow tags. The herd size on any given unit is finite. Having half of the herd as bulls isn't healthy. If there are 800 elk on the San Juan, and about 400 are bulls, I have a hard time seeing how 7 management bull permits is going to help the situation. Oh wait, next year they can only issue 193 cow tags instead of 200! Help me understand.

 

[PleaseDear]

There are some slammer 5x's out there thats for sure!

I think I heard/read that the '06 Utah Gov. tag just got filled and it was a 380 5x5 out of the Beaver....

Maybe not...

Robb

 

[proutdoors]

None of the units are 1:1, spike areas and LE only alike. To go overboard and kill that many bulls WOULD destroy the quality. I for one do NOT want to see the quality ruined in one year because of overreaction from the DWR. Do it slowly and evaluate it AFTER the hunts are complete, if more need to be taken increase the number of tags carefully, not all at once.

I think archers are the best option for these management tags as this will give MORE tags and they must be up close to verify the number of points. Maybe make it optional in taking a five by, if they take a five by they get their points back, if they kill a six by or kill nothing they lose their points and wait five years. Just a thought.

 

[huntin100]

If they shoot a 6x6, they looses the bull and points. I doubt many will shoot bulls that are broken up short enough to look like a 5 point. The point has to be less than an inch long. Bulls usually dont break off time with less than an inch point left. Unless they break a mainbeam. I hope this hunt works out. However, hunters should burn points and have a waiting period.

 

[treehugnhuntr]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-06 AT 00:06AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-06 AT 00:05?AM (MST)





>None of the units are 1:1,
>spike areas and LE only
>alike. To go overboard and
>kill that many bulls WOULD
>destroy the quality. I for
>one do NOT want to
>see the quality ruined in
>one year because of overreaction
>from the DWR. Do it
>slowly and evaluate it AFTER
>the hunts are complete, if
>more need to be taken
>increase the number of tags
>carefully, not all at once.
>
>
> I think archers are the
>best option for these management
>tags as this will give
>MORE tags and they must
>be up close to verify
>the number of points. Maybe
>make it optional in taking
>a five by, if they
>take a five by they
>get their points back, if
>they kill a six by
>or kill nothing they lose
>their points and wait five
>years. Just a thought.



Pro, I agree that the best case scenario would be to give them to archery hunters, but we both know the outcry that would take place from rifle and muzzleloader hunters. I think the management tags will have little effect on the units, but, it's just a test run. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a different plan in place at the RAC's after this season. I think increasing overall tag numbers for LE would be a better way to go, but do it slowly, don't double the tags in a year or anything like that. That way the biologist can gather info and not do anything drastic that would affect the quality of harvest in Utah.

I know they have "premium units", But I think it would be wise to look at restructuring the units so that a certain percentage of them are managed for monsters and the others for quality/opportunity, I'm sure there's a fairly happy medium that would please most people on both sides of the argument.




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[swbuckmaster]

The worst thing about these units will be it will allow a hunter with 12 points to draw a tag every year and kill big bull until he really wants a bigger bull. If they draw one of these tags they should loose their bonus points. The whole reason they are putting in for a LE unit is to kill a big bull. Let those that are satisfied to kill a lesser bull receive those tags.

 

[proutdoors]

If someone with 12 points puts in and draws this tag he will not get a new point, thus he will lose a point. If he did this for three years he would have "3" less points and will have a harder time drawing a LE tag. So they do 'lose' a point every year they draw this management tag, just not all of them.

 

[HuntElk4Fun_]

Even losing just one point still gives them alot of names in the hat in years to come. A guy could pull 3-4 tags in 10-15 years and still have points in the mix for that giant he wants someday. Point is, it gives people a chance with alot of points more opportunity to draw more LE tags, kill more elk, while keeping points the whole time. Thanks goodness the UDWR has zero long term thinking skills to anything and this will be gone in a year or two.

ODDNUT1
Kirt C.
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