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taxidermynut
Guest
If I understand it right you loose your points if you do not get a bull? Doesn't make since to me.
E
elk_horn
Guest
its a managment tag so if you dont shoot a mangment bull you loose you points... just like a regular LE tag if you dont use your tag your done!
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proutdoors
Guest
The purpose of these tags is to lower the bull to cow ratio, if you dont kill a 5 by then you are not helping the problem, thus you get penalized. If you kill an illegal bull, ie. a bull with 6 or more points on BOTH sides, you lose your points and the bull.
PRO
PRO
sjhgraysage
Very Active Member
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- 2,290
to add to pro's comments, "a 5 by" or smaller bull
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,357
BFE - that's what's going to get a lot of these management hunters in trouble. My bet is that there will be several that will lose their points because they waited until the last day trying to find the biggest baddest 5x5 on the mountain. I can hear the bawling now, "I didn't know that I HAD to shoot a bull". There will be those that don't read the regs and lose out!
It's always an adventure!!!
It's always an adventure!!!
T
taxidermynut
Guest
I thought the point of a "management hunt" was to take the older bulls that never got bigger than 5x's, not to just shot the first young 5x that has a chance at becoming more. Seems to kind of defeat the purpose to me, but maybe that's just me.
I don't see this as helping the cow the bull ratio much at all. If you have 2000 elk on a unit and your ratio is 50:50 thats 1000 bulls and 1000 cows. You give 10 management tags on that unit now your ratio is 990 bulls to 1000 cows. In the over all picture that just accomplished nothing. Depending on where they want the ratio to be you would have to give more like 500 tags and that would put you at 1 bull for every 2 cows. That affecting the ratio. I don't see this as much of a management hunt.
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,315
In my mind, this hunt is more about responding to a concern that there are too many mature 5X bulls, AND there are too few tags issued for premium bull units. This gives a few more hunters a chance to hunt and still addresses the cry to keep the 400" bulls out there to dream about.
I aggree that it will have little effect on the herds, which is what the "400 club" guys want!
It is tough to please everyone, all the time!!!!
I aggree that it will have little effect on the herds, which is what the "400 club" guys want!
It is tough to please everyone, all the time!!!!
I agree with littlebighorn on the focus being on the mature 5's. They are the ones doing the breeding. I think they should have it during the rut so the big fives are out in the open. Also the later it gets the more busted bulls there will be. I think it's lame if someone shoots a busted bull with this tag. They need to make that illegal some how.
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proutdoors
Guest
Think how upset someone with a LE pahvaunt tag would be if he finally drew out only to have his hunt buggered up by someone looking for the mighty 350+ FIVE by FIVE. That is one reason NOT to have the hunt in the rut.
The purpose of this tag is NOT to get rid of the bad genetic bulls. That is not possible as the cows carry this 'bad gene' as well as the bulls. The purpose and ONLY purpose of this tag is to lower the bull to cow ratio. The DWR made them management tags to appease some of us 'trophy hunters' who do not want the quality destroyed over night.
PRO
The purpose of this tag is NOT to get rid of the bad genetic bulls. That is not possible as the cows carry this 'bad gene' as well as the bulls. The purpose and ONLY purpose of this tag is to lower the bull to cow ratio. The DWR made them management tags to appease some of us 'trophy hunters' who do not want the quality destroyed over night.
PRO
pro,
Have you ever been on the Pahvant on opening morning? It's a zoo. There's more forest chicken hunters and atv jamboreeiers that will screw things up way before a few more management tag hunters. I see your point and agree to a certain extent. I'm more concerned about shooting a 370 6x6 that in Nov. will be a busted 6x4. Is that your idea of a management bull? In the LE unit I spend the most time in 40% of the herd bulls are very large 5's. That's a problem. So don't shoot a raghorn until you have to.
Have you ever been on the Pahvant on opening morning? It's a zoo. There's more forest chicken hunters and atv jamboreeiers that will screw things up way before a few more management tag hunters. I see your point and agree to a certain extent. I'm more concerned about shooting a 370 6x6 that in Nov. will be a busted 6x4. Is that your idea of a management bull? In the LE unit I spend the most time in 40% of the herd bulls are very large 5's. That's a problem. So don't shoot a raghorn until you have to.
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WARBIRDUM
Guest
Even with the management hunts being later you can count on who ever draws these tags there will be extra pressure scouting while other rut hunts are taking place.You could see bulls during the rut and keep track of them in October and November just before the late hunt opens.This would allow plenty of time for scouting and learning the unit if you have never been on the unit.This could prove to be a great hunt for those willing to lose one point and would not mind harvesting maybe a raghorn bull or maybe a giant 5 point bull.What do you think the odds will be for guys that are 65 and older?
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proutdoors
Guest
Odds for youth will be good, odds for over 65 will be better.
Remember if you pass up the small five by early, you take the risk of not harvesting an animal, then you lose your points and are screwed. Let a young five by walk and be aware of the risks.
Again, the intent of this hunt is NOT to weed out the 'bad gene' bulls, it is to LOWER the bull/cow ratios on these units.
I suspect more units will be added in the future with some modifications from this first year of this tag.
PRO
Remember if you pass up the small five by early, you take the risk of not harvesting an animal, then you lose your points and are screwed. Let a young five by walk and be aware of the risks.
Again, the intent of this hunt is NOT to weed out the 'bad gene' bulls, it is to LOWER the bull/cow ratios on these units.
I suspect more units will be added in the future with some modifications from this first year of this tag.
PRO
pro,
I get your point for the second time on the purpose of these tags being for the bull cow ratios and I support that. All I'm suggesting is to the hunter to step it up and kill a mature five and help out the herd plus have something to hang on the wall. I understand the risks. That's pretty obvious.
I guess killing a big busted bull doesn't bother you or you would have adressed it. Again, that is my biggest complaint or concern. Makes me sick.
A 350 5x is a huge trophy. There are more than a hand full out there so go get them. The largest grossing bull ever killed in Utah, to my knowledge, was a 434 gross 5x8. I've seen 370+ 5x6, 5x7 bulls that fit this tag. They are hard to find in Nov.
It would also help the bull cow ratio if they would STOP KILLING COWS.
I get your point for the second time on the purpose of these tags being for the bull cow ratios and I support that. All I'm suggesting is to the hunter to step it up and kill a mature five and help out the herd plus have something to hang on the wall. I understand the risks. That's pretty obvious.
I guess killing a big busted bull doesn't bother you or you would have adressed it. Again, that is my biggest complaint or concern. Makes me sick.
A 350 5x is a huge trophy. There are more than a hand full out there so go get them. The largest grossing bull ever killed in Utah, to my knowledge, was a 434 gross 5x8. I've seen 370+ 5x6, 5x7 bulls that fit this tag. They are hard to find in Nov.
It would also help the bull cow ratio if they would STOP KILLING COWS.
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proutdoors
Guest
The problem with not killing cows is most units are OVER objectives for number of elk on the unit. They get blasted for wanting to issue more bull tags, they get blasted for these management tags, they get blasted for issuing cow tags. How are they supposed to keep the overall numbers in check if they can't kill more bulls, can't kill cows, can't kill busted up bulls?
PRO
PRO
huntnfool is absolutely right about these tags! Issuing 10 management bull tags in a herd of 2000 bulls wont have ANY significant effect on the bull:cow ratio (as he said 1000:1000 changed to 990:1000). I don't know why all the extra paper in the proclamation for this stupid hunt. I think it is just opening the door for something more sinister in the future - but I don't know for sure what it might be.
AndymanSavage
Very Active Member
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- 2,724
Peakfreak, could you explain more in-depth why you are so upset at the prospect of shooting a busted bull? I am not being a smart ass, I just don't see the problem. like was said, 10 more bulls, even 5x5 bulls, won't affect the gene pool one bit. It is just 10 more tags, plain and simple in my opinion. If I drew the tag you can bet I would be there in September, watching the big boys fight and praying for a "snap". The most impressive bull I have ever seen up close(5 yds)was a 380 class 7x6 bull in september that was a massive 7x3 in november. Maybe I am looking at this wrong, I don't know. Hell, maybe I should just keep after my muzzy tag and forget the whole thing.
Andy
Andy
Andyman,
I guess I have a different outlook on these bulls. I love and guess you could say worship them. I spend as much time, as my loving wife will allow, trying to catch a glance at a 400" bull. When any mature bull is taken they are a trophy and deserve to be placed on a wall where they can be drooled over. Nothing is prettier than a nice 6x6 mount. I've never seen anyone mount a busted 7x4, it just doesn't happen. I've seen and heard of hunters passing on large busted bulls to have someone else take the bull the following year in all his glory. I thought it was LE 101 to not shoot large busted bulls. I don't claim to know much just my feeling and opinion.
I guess I have a different outlook on these bulls. I love and guess you could say worship them. I spend as much time, as my loving wife will allow, trying to catch a glance at a 400" bull. When any mature bull is taken they are a trophy and deserve to be placed on a wall where they can be drooled over. Nothing is prettier than a nice 6x6 mount. I've never seen anyone mount a busted 7x4, it just doesn't happen. I've seen and heard of hunters passing on large busted bulls to have someone else take the bull the following year in all his glory. I thought it was LE 101 to not shoot large busted bulls. I don't claim to know much just my feeling and opinion.
I agree with peak. These management tags were given to curb the number of large non-trophy (in the eyes of the inch crowd) bulls, on high end units, which will never get shot. What I do not understand is why have this hunt in November?? Lower success rates, broken bulls. It makes no sense. They should have had these tags hunt in September, right along side the regular rifle guys. The bulls are less likely to be broken, they have a higher success rate, and the bulls are easier to get on and study when they come to the call that time of year. They want these bulls killed as a management tool, right? So the higher success the better.
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,135
I was at the Wildlife board mtg and a rac mtg. These tags are to eliminate the large 5 point bulls from the gene pool AND to increase harvest of the bulls. You guy's are both right. I see NO problem with a busted bull getting killed, remember that the break must be less than 1 inch left on the main beam to be legal. And I know it may sound stupid but I like to believe that most sportsman are law abiding and will not break an antler off to make it Legal. This WHOLE hunt could have been avoided had sportsman been willing to allow the harvest of a few more trophy bulls. My belief is these issues could be solved by allowing more hunters to shoot the bull of their dreams. If we have 1000 bulls, and 1000 cows, we can shoot more than 20 and still have a class of true trophy bulls that are ready for harvest the next year. I guess time will tell if this hunt has any merit. The way I see it is in the short term this management hunt will help lower bull numbers but the quality will at some point suffer the same amount as if these same tags were issued to kill large bulls. 30-40 bulls of a unit no matter what age class or size have the SAME result. 30-40 less bulls. Have a great day.
Chad
Chad
Sorry but I don't think shooting a broken into 5X6 that was a huge 6x6 LE bull just a few weeks before is a management bull. These so called "Management Hunts" should be earlier in the year so the real 5x5 and 5x6 management bulls can be hunted and culled if that is their true intention. This just sounds like a good ol boy deal to me.
A management bull is something with inferior antler genes that you don't want breeding the cows. Just how does a broken 6x6 fit into this category?
I can see people breaking off a point and hiding it only to be repaired later and keep their points.
This is the worst idea I've heard in quite a while.
A management bull is something with inferior antler genes that you don't want breeding the cows. Just how does a broken 6x6 fit into this category?
I can see people breaking off a point and hiding it only to be repaired later and keep their points.
This is the worst idea I've heard in quite a while.
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,135
I totally can see your point of view. The real issue at hand in my very small mind is the term "management". They described this hunt as a way to weed out these genetically inferior bulls. This will happen. BUT, along the way a lot of other bulls will be shot which will fulfill the other reason for this hunt. That is to kill off some bulls. This is exactly why it would have been better to just slowly issue more tags to allow for more harvest. In either scenerio their are bulls getting killed which will effect quality either now or in a very short number of years. Have a great day.
Chad
Chad
Why is it that game farms have a very high Bull:Cow ratio? Because it takes a lot of bulls to be able to produce those trophy animals! So...when the DWR decided to manage our public resources like private hunting clubs in Texas - things had to change. Now its not an issue of how many elk any given habitat can support, its how can we get rid of some of these excess bulls and still produce abnormally large antlered elk that will bring in $80,000 when we auction off a tag? To me, this is a ridiculous situation they have created.
MulePacker
Active Member
- Messages
- 514
I wonder why it is OK for the "nontrophy hunter" to shoot the next state record as a three yr old five point, but not as a nine year old 6 X 6? This is exactly the case with these management tags. We have provided a hunt to kill next years crop. If next years crop can stand to be thinned then so can this years. It is ridiculous to have "management tags" if we can kill more bulls lets kill more bulls!!!! If a meat hunter shoots the next state record who cares, I doubt they will eat the antlers. Again a prostitution of Utahs wildlife. If you want the best whore you need to pay and call an escort service. If you are happy with one off the corner, just make sure it is late and don't tell anybody.
I have 13 points for elk and planned to play the game until I recieved my BIG STINKY BULL PERMIT. After visitng my grandpa's grave recently I believe I will apply for the unit above my house and fill the freezer. If it happens to have a set of B & C antlers or spikes my granddaughter and I will take a day and hang them on the barn. After all that is the hunting heritage my grandpa passed to me.
Travis Sparks
I have 13 points for elk and planned to play the game until I recieved my BIG STINKY BULL PERMIT. After visitng my grandpa's grave recently I believe I will apply for the unit above my house and fill the freezer. If it happens to have a set of B & C antlers or spikes my granddaughter and I will take a day and hang them on the barn. After all that is the hunting heritage my grandpa passed to me.
Travis Sparks
UTmonsterslayer
Active Member
- Messages
- 325
i agree with the freakster. there are WAY too many 5 point herd bulls. the purpose of limited entry units, is to produce huge bulls. correct me if i'm wrong. people that wait 15 years to draw a tag are not gonna shoot a big five point. so the big 5's are porkin' the cows. i spend a lot of time on the same unit as peakfreak, and there is a large majority of herd bulls that are 5x's.in fact, the biggest bull i saw this year was a colossal 5x5 with about 25 cows. he was runnin' the show,and the only thing that will stop him from makin more 5x5's like himself, is somebody letting the air out of him. saying killing the bulls with inferior genes won't help is a joke! they are capable of breeding more than one cow a year....
sounds like a good idea, shooting busted bulls. who cares if he WAS a huge nice 6x6!!! lets get him out of the herd so he can't make any babies! in my opinion, that defeats the purpose. i do agree that the management hunt needs to be early. when the bulls are not very reclusive and broken.i know on the unit i spend my time on, killing a raghorn any time of the year is not an issue. walk out through the cedars for an hour and you 'll probably find one! and if you had done any scouting, you would know where some were.
back to my main point of these units. making big bulls. i feel this is a good way to give the people that "don't care about the score" an opportunity to kill a nice bull, and over time, make the genetics better. here is some pictures from this past june of a nice management bull on my trail camera from one of these units.just imagine if he had some nice 6 point genetics and the same age on him..............let's kill him!!!!
sounds like a good idea, shooting busted bulls. who cares if he WAS a huge nice 6x6!!! lets get him out of the herd so he can't make any babies! in my opinion, that defeats the purpose. i do agree that the management hunt needs to be early. when the bulls are not very reclusive and broken.i know on the unit i spend my time on, killing a raghorn any time of the year is not an issue. walk out through the cedars for an hour and you 'll probably find one! and if you had done any scouting, you would know where some were.
back to my main point of these units. making big bulls. i feel this is a good way to give the people that "don't care about the score" an opportunity to kill a nice bull, and over time, make the genetics better. here is some pictures from this past june of a nice management bull on my trail camera from one of these units.just imagine if he had some nice 6 point genetics and the same age on him..............let's kill him!!!!
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proutdoors
Guest
How do you get rid of the five point gene carrying cows? I know lets have a management cow hunt, you are only allowed to shoot the defective gene carrying cows. Please let the biologists know, since you think they are dumB.
PRO
PRO
UTmonsterslayer
Active Member
- Messages
- 325
last time i checked, cows didn't have nine lives!!!!
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proutdoors
Guest
My point is, you will NOT get rid of the five point gene by just killing all the big five point bulls. Cows carry the gene as well. I trying to show you it isn't cut and dry on this like you made it sound. Last time I checked, even if you kill EVERY 'bad gene bull' on a given unit the genetics for 'bad gene bulls' will still be in the gene pool.
PRO
PRO
ProBiologist,
You obviously know all the answers, so why do you ask the questions. It's obvious you spend more of your time studying biology than in the hills studying the herd. If i'm wrong tell us what you are seeing out there.
I would think you being the smartest guy on MM would be able to figure out that taking the mature 5x's will weed out this gene more than shooting busted 6x's or rags soon to become 6x's.
I'm tired of seeing the same 5x year after year running the big herds and nobody shooting them because they want a 6x.
The gene carring cow question is the lamest post I have ever seen on this site. Get real or go study.
You obviously know all the answers, so why do you ask the questions. It's obvious you spend more of your time studying biology than in the hills studying the herd. If i'm wrong tell us what you are seeing out there.
I would think you being the smartest guy on MM would be able to figure out that taking the mature 5x's will weed out this gene more than shooting busted 6x's or rags soon to become 6x's.
I'm tired of seeing the same 5x year after year running the big herds and nobody shooting them because they want a 6x.
The gene carring cow question is the lamest post I have ever seen on this site. Get real or go study.
P
proutdoors
Guest
What I am saying is, its not as cut and dry as some make it seem to be. And if there are five bys in the herd, nature must have WANTED them there. Why is having five point bulls in the herd a bad thing? Hell, the hunter with the sate wide tag just smoked a five by, and he paid $130,000+ for him. I like typical bulls, so lets have a hunt to get 'rid' of all the non-typical bulls, have a management hunt to cull them from the herd.
PRO
PRO
B
bobcatbess
Guest
JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!!!
I GUESS NONE OF THESE 380"+ BULLS THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN THE LAST FEW YEARS WERE NEVER 320"+ 5 POINT BULLS HUH???
WTF???
MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT MY ASS!!!
JUST ANOTHER WAY OF THE UDWR TO SELL MORE PERMITS IN L.E. UNITS TO CREATE MORE MONEY,PLEASE A FEW MORE OPPORTUNISTS AND ADD HUNTING PRESSURE TO UNITS THAT DON'T REALLY NEED ANYMORE PRESSURE ON THEM!!!
EVERY YEAR THEY COME UP WITH ANOTHER WAY TO ADD MORE PERMITS & THIS "MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT" SUCKS!!!
LAST YEAR IT WAS:WE MUST LOWER AGE OBJECTIVES!!!
THE YEAR BEFORE:ADDED A LATE BULL HUNT!!!
THIS YEAR:ADD A MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT!!!
WTF IS NEXT???
FRICK!!!
CAN ANYBODY BUT ME & ktc SEE WHERE ITS ALL HEADED???
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING IT MUST TAKE A FULL YEAR TO DREAM UP THE NEXT PLAN TO ADD PERMITS IN L.E. ELK UNITS!!!
I GUESS NONE OF THESE 380"+ BULLS THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN THE LAST FEW YEARS WERE NEVER 320"+ 5 POINT BULLS HUH???
WTF???
MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT MY ASS!!!
JUST ANOTHER WAY OF THE UDWR TO SELL MORE PERMITS IN L.E. UNITS TO CREATE MORE MONEY,PLEASE A FEW MORE OPPORTUNISTS AND ADD HUNTING PRESSURE TO UNITS THAT DON'T REALLY NEED ANYMORE PRESSURE ON THEM!!!
EVERY YEAR THEY COME UP WITH ANOTHER WAY TO ADD MORE PERMITS & THIS "MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT" SUCKS!!!
LAST YEAR IT WAS:WE MUST LOWER AGE OBJECTIVES!!!
THE YEAR BEFORE:ADDED A LATE BULL HUNT!!!
THIS YEAR:ADD A MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT!!!
WTF IS NEXT???
FRICK!!!
CAN ANYBODY BUT ME & ktc SEE WHERE ITS ALL HEADED???
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING IT MUST TAKE A FULL YEAR TO DREAM UP THE NEXT PLAN TO ADD PERMITS IN L.E. ELK UNITS!!!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
PRO!!!
GOSH DAMN IT!!!
KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!
THAT JUST MIGHT BE NEXT YEARS BATTLE PLAN!!!
I CAN HEAR IT NOW!!!
WE HAVE 2 BULLS ON TOP OF EVERY COW!!!
THERE ARE TOO MANY NON-TYPICAL BULLS!!!
SO LETS HAVE AN ADDITIONAL NON-TYPICAL MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT ON L.E. UNITS!!!
THE ONLY bobcat KNOWING ONE THING FOR SURE,THEY WILL BE TRYING TO ADD PERMITS IN 08 IN A ROUND ABOUT WAY NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF POOR EXCUSE IT MIGHT BE!!!
GOSH DAMN IT!!!
KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!
THAT JUST MIGHT BE NEXT YEARS BATTLE PLAN!!!
I CAN HEAR IT NOW!!!
WE HAVE 2 BULLS ON TOP OF EVERY COW!!!
THERE ARE TOO MANY NON-TYPICAL BULLS!!!
SO LETS HAVE AN ADDITIONAL NON-TYPICAL MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT ON L.E. UNITS!!!
THE ONLY bobcat KNOWING ONE THING FOR SURE,THEY WILL BE TRYING TO ADD PERMITS IN 08 IN A ROUND ABOUT WAY NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF POOR EXCUSE IT MIGHT BE!!!
M
meadecreek
Guest
I don't know if this management hunt is a good or bad idea, but if they (DWR) is really selling this program as a management hunt, it seems to lack merit, to me. My experience is that it is very hard if not impossible to manage for trophy genetics, that you will actually achieve, especially in an open population. High fence operations can obviously do it, private ranches with free roaming animals can have some success depending on the size of the management area.
Utah has been producing world class elk, more and more every year, with the current genetics. That tells me that something is working right.
Whatever they decide, I hope that these big bulls will be around for a while because I am low in the points pool.
Utah has been producing world class elk, more and more every year, with the current genetics. That tells me that something is working right.
Whatever they decide, I hope that these big bulls will be around for a while because I am low in the points pool.
P
proutdoors
Guest
First, I was proving a point on removing the 'bad genetics' with the cow hunt.
Second, this tag was NOT intended to get the 'bad genetic' bulls out of the herds. It was intended to LOWER the bull to cow ratios and NOTHING else. The reason for wanting them to be five bys or SMALLER was to not lower the quality in the process of lowering the ratios. Think how outraged the ol CAT would be if they upped the number of LE tags by the same percentage as these management tags. This way the ratio can go down a little at a time while having minimal impact on the quality.
BESSY, lets look at the San Juan unit for a minute. There is a HIGH bull cow ratio there, not 1 to 1 but very high. Now the herd is at or above total number of elk that unit can hold. You do not want to issue more bull tags, you want zero cow tags issued, and you want these managemnet tags stopped, right? How are you going to keep the total number of elk in check, get a healthy bull/cow ratio, and keep quality high, if you are opposed to EVERYTHING? Don't give me moving elk to open bull units either, we both know that has zero chance of happening. The unit can hold X number of elk, and can't have a bull/cow ratio of almost 1 to 1, and stay healthy. What is your solution Mr internet biologist?
PRO
Second, this tag was NOT intended to get the 'bad genetic' bulls out of the herds. It was intended to LOWER the bull to cow ratios and NOTHING else. The reason for wanting them to be five bys or SMALLER was to not lower the quality in the process of lowering the ratios. Think how outraged the ol CAT would be if they upped the number of LE tags by the same percentage as these management tags. This way the ratio can go down a little at a time while having minimal impact on the quality.
BESSY, lets look at the San Juan unit for a minute. There is a HIGH bull cow ratio there, not 1 to 1 but very high. Now the herd is at or above total number of elk that unit can hold. You do not want to issue more bull tags, you want zero cow tags issued, and you want these managemnet tags stopped, right? How are you going to keep the total number of elk in check, get a healthy bull/cow ratio, and keep quality high, if you are opposed to EVERYTHING? Don't give me moving elk to open bull units either, we both know that has zero chance of happening. The unit can hold X number of elk, and can't have a bull/cow ratio of almost 1 to 1, and stay healthy. What is your solution Mr internet biologist?
PRO
B
bobcatbess
Guest
PRO!!!
HOW DO YOU KNOW THERE AIN'T A 1 TO 1 BULL TO COW RATIO???
LAST YEAR I SAW 2 BULLS ATOP ONE COW!!!
I'M NO INTERNET BIOLOGIST!!!
BUT I SURE AS HELL DON'T SEE WHY THEY KEEP SHOOTING THE COWS OUT OF UNITS & THEN WONDER WHY THE HELL THE BULL TO COW RATIO IS ####ED UP!!!
AND BY THE WAY MR. PRO BIOLOGIST,YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET OUT A LITTLE MORE IN THE UNIT YOU MENTIONED,THERE WERE LESS ELK ON THAT UNIT THAN I'VE SEEN IN MANY YEARS,SURE THERES STILL A BUNCH OF BIG BULLS AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE MANAGED TO KEEP A BUNCH OF BIG BULLS AROUND!!!
SOME OF YOU BOYS AMAZE ME WITH YOUR FRICKEN GREED!!!
ADMIT IT!!!
NOT EVERY TARD IN THE STATE CAN HUNT TROPHY BULLS EVERY YEAR JUST BECAUSE THEY WANT TOO & CAN'T STAND SEEING A FEW BIG BULLS SURVIVE EVEN AFTER THE HUNTS!!!
DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!
THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING JUST HOW MANY FRICKEN ELK YOU THINK THERE IS ON THAT UNIT???
HOW DO YOU KNOW THERE AIN'T A 1 TO 1 BULL TO COW RATIO???
LAST YEAR I SAW 2 BULLS ATOP ONE COW!!!
I'M NO INTERNET BIOLOGIST!!!
BUT I SURE AS HELL DON'T SEE WHY THEY KEEP SHOOTING THE COWS OUT OF UNITS & THEN WONDER WHY THE HELL THE BULL TO COW RATIO IS ####ED UP!!!
AND BY THE WAY MR. PRO BIOLOGIST,YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET OUT A LITTLE MORE IN THE UNIT YOU MENTIONED,THERE WERE LESS ELK ON THAT UNIT THAN I'VE SEEN IN MANY YEARS,SURE THERES STILL A BUNCH OF BIG BULLS AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE MANAGED TO KEEP A BUNCH OF BIG BULLS AROUND!!!
SOME OF YOU BOYS AMAZE ME WITH YOUR FRICKEN GREED!!!
ADMIT IT!!!
NOT EVERY TARD IN THE STATE CAN HUNT TROPHY BULLS EVERY YEAR JUST BECAUSE THEY WANT TOO & CAN'T STAND SEEING A FEW BIG BULLS SURVIVE EVEN AFTER THE HUNTS!!!
DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!
THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING JUST HOW MANY FRICKEN ELK YOU THINK THERE IS ON THAT UNIT???
P
proutdoors
Guest
More than the states objectives for total number of elk.
You still FAILED to answer my question, how are you proposing to keep the numbers in check & bull/cow ratios in check if you are not willing to kill cows nor anymore than a handful of bulls? Don't get you started, I am just warming up kitty kat.
Its not about greed, its about using your head. Get the hairball out of your air tube so you can think a 'little' about it. Please tell me how to balance the overall number of elk, bull/cow ratios, healthy elk w/o killing more ELK. Either the state needs to kill more cows and screw up the ratios even more, or kill more bulls. Which do you 'think' makes sense from a biological standpoint?
Maybe you should quit your day job and go count the number of elk down there, you know, be scientific about your ranting rather than talking out your bobtail. Am I getting you started yet?
PRO
You still FAILED to answer my question, how are you proposing to keep the numbers in check & bull/cow ratios in check if you are not willing to kill cows nor anymore than a handful of bulls? Don't get you started, I am just warming up kitty kat.
Its not about greed, its about using your head. Get the hairball out of your air tube so you can think a 'little' about it. Please tell me how to balance the overall number of elk, bull/cow ratios, healthy elk w/o killing more ELK. Either the state needs to kill more cows and screw up the ratios even more, or kill more bulls. Which do you 'think' makes sense from a biological standpoint?
Maybe you should quit your day job and go count the number of elk down there, you know, be scientific about your ranting rather than talking out your bobtail. Am I getting you started yet?
PRO
B
bobcatbess
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-07 AT 12:03PM (MST)[p]SO YOU DON'T THINK THEY HAVEN'T SLAUGHTERED ANY COWS IN THAT UNIT HUH???
WTF???
HOW MANY FRICKEN ELK POINTS YOU GOT???
ANSWER PLEASE???
THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF I'M DEALING WITH ANOTHER OPPORPUNIST???
EDIT
WTF???
HOW MANY FRICKEN ELK POINTS YOU GOT???
ANSWER PLEASE???
THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF I'M DEALING WITH ANOTHER OPPORPUNIST???
EDIT
B
bobcatbess
Guest
NEXT THING YA KNOW!!!
PRO WILL TELL ME THERES TOO MANY BUCKS ON SAN JUAN!!!
WHEN HE DOES I'LL CALL HIM A LIAR RIGHT TO HIS FACE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat!!!
PRO WILL TELL ME THERES TOO MANY BUCKS ON SAN JUAN!!!
WHEN HE DOES I'LL CALL HIM A LIAR RIGHT TO HIS FACE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat!!!
P
proutdoors
Guest
I KNOW they kill cows, you are the one saying they shouldn't be. My question was, and still has NOT been answered by the cat, if you are not willing to kill cows and not kill more than a small percentage of the bulls, how the HELL are you going to manage the number of elk on this unit? This is the third time I am asking you, please answer the dang question.
I will answer your question on whether or not I am an opportunist. NO and HELL NO. I have enough points that I hope to draw this year or next with the system that is in place NOW, if I don't draw this year or next I am willing to wait. I have been lucky enough to have killed two bulls with my bow that go over 360 (AR301), I'll wait my turn to get a chance to kill something bigger than what I have already killed. I will not be putting in for San Juan either, I got another unit I like better that takes fewer points.
Coyotes should be shot, peakfreak, on sight for the sake of our deer herds, not for the elk. Sorry, I couldn't let you down on this one.
PRO
I will answer your question on whether or not I am an opportunist. NO and HELL NO. I have enough points that I hope to draw this year or next with the system that is in place NOW, if I don't draw this year or next I am willing to wait. I have been lucky enough to have killed two bulls with my bow that go over 360 (AR301), I'll wait my turn to get a chance to kill something bigger than what I have already killed. I will not be putting in for San Juan either, I got another unit I like better that takes fewer points.
Coyotes should be shot, peakfreak, on sight for the sake of our deer herds, not for the elk. Sorry, I couldn't let you down on this one.
PRO
B
bobcatbess
Guest
PRO!!!
IF YOU'VE READ ANY OF MY PREVIOUS POSTS YOU SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER!!!
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A FEW COWS BEING TAKEN!!!
BUT TO HAVE MASSIVE COW SLAUGHTERS & THEN HAVE EVERYBODY WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HERD AGGITATES ME!!!
THE WAYS NOT TO MANAGE GAME:::
DON'T SLAUGHTER ELK LIKE THEY DID ON THE SOUTH SLOPE!!!
DON'T DESTROY AN L.E. UNIT LIKE THEY DID ON FISH LAKE!!!
DON'T HUNT DEER UNITS COMPLETEY OUT LIKE THEY DID IN THE BOOK CLIFFS,SO BAD IT HAD TO BE CLOSED!!!
DON'T HUNT DEER UNITS LIKE ELK RIDGE OUT UNTIL IT HAD TO BE CLOSED,AND DON'T OVER HUNT IT ONCE YOU BRING IT BACK A LITTLE LIKE THEY ARE DOING NOW!!!
DON'T START AN L.E. ELK UNIT SUCH AS ANTHRO AND THEN SLAUGHTER THE COWS(MAYBE YOU SHOULD OF BEEN AROUND PRO TO SEE THIS!!!)I MEAN SHOOT THIS SOB CLEAR OUT AND THEN ISSUE LATE DEPARDATION BULL HUNTS ON THE UNIT,YES ITS TRUE,WAKE UP & SEE THE LIGHT!!!
EVERY TIME I'VE SEEN THEESE "COW KILLER" HUNTS GO INTO EFFECT TO REDUCE THE HERD THEY DIDN'T REDUCE IT,THEY FRICKEN DESTROYED IT!!!
IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL MACHO PRO,JUST GO GUT SHOOT A COW,MAYBE YOU'LL FEEL BETTER???
IF YOU'VE ALREADY TOOK TWO 360"+ BULLS I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM,YOU GOT A PICTURE OR TWO???
THE ONLY bobcat KNOWING FOR A FACT THAT OVERHUNTING COW ELK IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!
IF YOU'VE READ ANY OF MY PREVIOUS POSTS YOU SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER!!!
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A FEW COWS BEING TAKEN!!!
BUT TO HAVE MASSIVE COW SLAUGHTERS & THEN HAVE EVERYBODY WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HERD AGGITATES ME!!!
THE WAYS NOT TO MANAGE GAME:::
DON'T SLAUGHTER ELK LIKE THEY DID ON THE SOUTH SLOPE!!!
DON'T DESTROY AN L.E. UNIT LIKE THEY DID ON FISH LAKE!!!
DON'T HUNT DEER UNITS COMPLETEY OUT LIKE THEY DID IN THE BOOK CLIFFS,SO BAD IT HAD TO BE CLOSED!!!
DON'T HUNT DEER UNITS LIKE ELK RIDGE OUT UNTIL IT HAD TO BE CLOSED,AND DON'T OVER HUNT IT ONCE YOU BRING IT BACK A LITTLE LIKE THEY ARE DOING NOW!!!
DON'T START AN L.E. ELK UNIT SUCH AS ANTHRO AND THEN SLAUGHTER THE COWS(MAYBE YOU SHOULD OF BEEN AROUND PRO TO SEE THIS!!!)I MEAN SHOOT THIS SOB CLEAR OUT AND THEN ISSUE LATE DEPARDATION BULL HUNTS ON THE UNIT,YES ITS TRUE,WAKE UP & SEE THE LIGHT!!!
EVERY TIME I'VE SEEN THEESE "COW KILLER" HUNTS GO INTO EFFECT TO REDUCE THE HERD THEY DIDN'T REDUCE IT,THEY FRICKEN DESTROYED IT!!!
IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL MACHO PRO,JUST GO GUT SHOOT A COW,MAYBE YOU'LL FEEL BETTER???
IF YOU'VE ALREADY TOOK TWO 360"+ BULLS I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM,YOU GOT A PICTURE OR TWO???
THE ONLY bobcat KNOWING FOR A FACT THAT OVERHUNTING COW ELK IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!
W
WARBIRDUM
Guest
If you have taken two bulls over 360 in Utah with your bow good job.I want to see the photos also, not saying I dont beleive you but just would like to see some more elk pics.I would be damn happy with harvesting not 1 but 2 elk over 360 in Utah.You say you should draw this year or next.Now you can go for a 400 bull it sounds like since you got the 360 plus bulls out of your way.
Good luck,
Some of us would be happy with drawing just one LE Utah elk tag,and have one chance at harvesting one 360 plus bull.How many can say they have taken 2 or more trophy elk from Utah besides the hunters who can afford to buy permits every year? Wow Pro you are on a roll I can honestly say if you draw again which it sounds like you will this year or next you will take another monster bull and that will make 3 big Utah elk with your bow without having to purchase the tags at banquets ect..I cant even imagine being that lucky to get 3 chances at LE bulls let alone once.
Lets see some pics we need a couple new elk harvest photos to look at.
Thanks
Good luck,
Some of us would be happy with drawing just one LE Utah elk tag,and have one chance at harvesting one 360 plus bull.How many can say they have taken 2 or more trophy elk from Utah besides the hunters who can afford to buy permits every year? Wow Pro you are on a roll I can honestly say if you draw again which it sounds like you will this year or next you will take another monster bull and that will make 3 big Utah elk with your bow without having to purchase the tags at banquets ect..I cant even imagine being that lucky to get 3 chances at LE bulls let alone once.
Lets see some pics we need a couple new elk harvest photos to look at.
Thanks
P
proutdoors
Guest
Its called a balanced approach. I never said slaughter all the cows, you are the one chocking on a chicken boneover killing cows. What the hell are talking about, gut shoot a cow? Did you get brain damage or what. I NEVER suggested kill all the cows, just the oppposite. I said we need BALANCE, I do not know the exact ratio on the San Juan or any unit for that matter, I do know they are higher than the should be.
I get paid to chase and find big bulls every fall. You are probably the only one on here calling me an opportunist. Your buddy wileywapiti thinks I am a 'head hunter', which is closer to the truth that what you think.
If you do not kill more bulls the ratios will get worse which WILL hurt the quality in the very near future. You say the San Juan is not at or above objectives, while I disagree, most units in Utah are, how do you propose to lower the number of elk on a given unit w/o killing SOME cows AND killing more bulls?
I have pictures and have one of them hanging on my wall, one in an office, but choose not to post them. I did not kill them to impress a kitty kat. I have also been on tv guiding elk hunters, am on the internet with hunters I have guided, am in hunting DVD's, but I guess you think I am full of hot air. There are people on this forum that know different. I did not mention my taking of two quality bulls to brag, just as an example that I am NOT an opportunist as implied.
PRO
I get paid to chase and find big bulls every fall. You are probably the only one on here calling me an opportunist. Your buddy wileywapiti thinks I am a 'head hunter', which is closer to the truth that what you think.
If you do not kill more bulls the ratios will get worse which WILL hurt the quality in the very near future. You say the San Juan is not at or above objectives, while I disagree, most units in Utah are, how do you propose to lower the number of elk on a given unit w/o killing SOME cows AND killing more bulls?
I have pictures and have one of them hanging on my wall, one in an office, but choose not to post them. I did not kill them to impress a kitty kat. I have also been on tv guiding elk hunters, am on the internet with hunters I have guided, am in hunting DVD's, but I guess you think I am full of hot air. There are people on this forum that know different. I did not mention my taking of two quality bulls to brag, just as an example that I am NOT an opportunist as implied.
PRO
B
bobcatbess
Guest
PRO!!!
I SAID I'M TRYING TO FIGURE YOU OUT!!!
APPORTUNIST OR NOT AN OPPORTUNIST!!!
SO YOU CLAIM NOT TO BE AN OPPORTUNIST!!!
I LIKE THAT PART!!!
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOW US YOUR PICTURES THATS FINE BY ME!!!
I JUST LIKE SEEING BIG STINKY BULLS!!!
NOT ONCE DID I EVER DOUBT YOU ON THEM EITHER!!!
SO WHATS YOUR NAME???
WHERE DO YOU LIVE???
MY NAME IS bobcatbess,I MEAN ROBERT BESS!!!
I LIVE IN ALTAMONT UTAH!!!
ww CALLS ME A HEAD HUNTER ALSO!!!
THATS O.K. THOUGH!!!
HE'S A STICK FLICKIN OPPORTUNIST WITH NOT ENOUGH POINTS TO HUNT THEM BIG STINKY RUTTIN RANK BULLS!!!
SORRY ww,COULDN'T RESIST!!!
YOU THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING PRO???
SO I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS???
DID YOU SPEND ANY TIME ON S.J. THIS YEAR???
NEVER SAID YOU WERE FULL OF HOT AIR EITHER!!!
IF YOU'LL COOL IT JUST A BIT???
AND LOOK AT THE POST WHERE I TOLD YOU TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT I WAS ONLY BEING SOURCASTIC ABOUT GIVING THE DWR NEW IDEAS ON HOW TO KIIL ELK!!!
I NEVER SAID YOU WERE BRAGGING,BUT DAMN WHO'S ASS ARE YOU KISSING TO ALMOST BE ON BIG STINKY BULL NUMBER 3???
THE ONLY bobcat!!!
I SAID I'M TRYING TO FIGURE YOU OUT!!!
APPORTUNIST OR NOT AN OPPORTUNIST!!!
SO YOU CLAIM NOT TO BE AN OPPORTUNIST!!!
I LIKE THAT PART!!!
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOW US YOUR PICTURES THATS FINE BY ME!!!
I JUST LIKE SEEING BIG STINKY BULLS!!!
NOT ONCE DID I EVER DOUBT YOU ON THEM EITHER!!!
SO WHATS YOUR NAME???
WHERE DO YOU LIVE???
MY NAME IS bobcatbess,I MEAN ROBERT BESS!!!
I LIVE IN ALTAMONT UTAH!!!
ww CALLS ME A HEAD HUNTER ALSO!!!
THATS O.K. THOUGH!!!
HE'S A STICK FLICKIN OPPORTUNIST WITH NOT ENOUGH POINTS TO HUNT THEM BIG STINKY RUTTIN RANK BULLS!!!
SORRY ww,COULDN'T RESIST!!!
YOU THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING PRO???
SO I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS???
DID YOU SPEND ANY TIME ON S.J. THIS YEAR???
NEVER SAID YOU WERE FULL OF HOT AIR EITHER!!!
IF YOU'LL COOL IT JUST A BIT???
AND LOOK AT THE POST WHERE I TOLD YOU TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT I WAS ONLY BEING SOURCASTIC ABOUT GIVING THE DWR NEW IDEAS ON HOW TO KIIL ELK!!!
I NEVER SAID YOU WERE BRAGGING,BUT DAMN WHO'S ASS ARE YOU KISSING TO ALMOST BE ON BIG STINKY BULL NUMBER 3???
THE ONLY bobcat!!!
P
proutdoors
Guest
I just like riling you up bessy, I'll send you a PM with my personal info, although my profile tells you where I live. I have NEVER been on the San Juan, I am going off all the 'experts' and was only using the San Juan as an example. I spend most of my time on the unit ktc killed his nice bull on. I nearly died on that mountain in Sept 2005, so since I have blood in the ground there I consider it my home range.
I drew the AR 301 tag twice, I only applied twice, and got lucky both times and tagged out on two nice bulls. If I hadn't applied for that tag twice, I would have drawn in 2004 or 2005. I would have drawn last year, but since I was still recovering from my near death experience in 2006 I just bought a point.
I get your point on the non-typicals, I was trying to make a point about attempting to eradicate all the five point bulls on these units, it aint possible.
PRO
Any time you give ww hell is good with me, we lock horns all the time. He is at a disadvantage though since he is a willowy horned pisscutter and I am a stinky ol monster. Sorry, ww, I couldn't resist.
I drew the AR 301 tag twice, I only applied twice, and got lucky both times and tagged out on two nice bulls. If I hadn't applied for that tag twice, I would have drawn in 2004 or 2005. I would have drawn last year, but since I was still recovering from my near death experience in 2006 I just bought a point.
I get your point on the non-typicals, I was trying to make a point about attempting to eradicate all the five point bulls on these units, it aint possible.
PRO
Any time you give ww hell is good with me, we lock horns all the time. He is at a disadvantage though since he is a willowy horned pisscutter and I am a stinky ol monster. Sorry, ww, I couldn't resist.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
YOU BOYS AIN'T NEVER SEEN ME RILED UP!!!
WHERE THE HELL IS ww???
HOPEFULLY HE'S GOT ENOUGH SENSE,COMMON SENSE THAT IS TO NOT BE OUT SHOOTING QUACKERS,YOU GOT TO EAT THEM DAMN THINGS IF YOU SHOOT THEM!!!
I KNOW HE'S NOT AROUND RIGHT NOW OR HE'D BE GIVING ME SOME $HIT!!!
ONE WORD OF WISDOM PRO!!!
NEVER GO BY WHAT THE "EXPERTS" SAY UNTIL YOU'VE SEEN IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES!!!
THE ONLY bobcat WAITING FOR ALL DISABLED INFO & THE "NEAR DEATH" STORY ON THE MOUNTAIN,THIS MIGHT BE INTERESTING???
WHERE THE HELL IS ww???
HOPEFULLY HE'S GOT ENOUGH SENSE,COMMON SENSE THAT IS TO NOT BE OUT SHOOTING QUACKERS,YOU GOT TO EAT THEM DAMN THINGS IF YOU SHOOT THEM!!!
I KNOW HE'S NOT AROUND RIGHT NOW OR HE'D BE GIVING ME SOME $HIT!!!
ONE WORD OF WISDOM PRO!!!
NEVER GO BY WHAT THE "EXPERTS" SAY UNTIL YOU'VE SEEN IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES!!!
THE ONLY bobcat WAITING FOR ALL DISABLED INFO & THE "NEAR DEATH" STORY ON THE MOUNTAIN,THIS MIGHT BE INTERESTING???
I
isayNUNYA
Guest
PR glad you made it out ok. Was down there guiding on that unit in 05 and heard about your accident. Didnt know it was you though. There was a rumor going around that the guy (you) didn't make it. Kinda like that John Wayne movie,"I thought you was dead" JW, "not hardly". Glad to hear your ok.
Good hell Bess, I thought every utard had at least 2 stinkin bulls on the wall. You better get busy!
Good hell Bess, I thought every utard had at least 2 stinkin bulls on the wall. You better get busy!
P
proutdoors
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-07 AT 02:16PM (MST)[p]Sent you PM bobcat.
I was with a hunter with a premium tag on a LE unit in Utah and rolled my ATV(serves me right). I took off all the skin on the top of my head, when my camera guy found me I had skin flaps over both ears, broke 4 vertabre, crushed 3 more( this is what hurts the most now), broke 8 ribs on the back side, punctured my right lung, torn my shoulder almost clear off, busted up my hand, stopped breathing twice on the ground and once during the ride. All of which I do NOT remember, I don't even recall getting on that stupid Polaris. I got my only helicopter ride out of it, just wish I could have been looking for stinky bulls,JK. I was still lucky enough to be back on the mountain this last year guiding more hunters. Kind of boring I know, but it's my story. I am glad there were people around that day, so I am around today. Thanks to all who helped my out.
PRO
I was with a hunter with a premium tag on a LE unit in Utah and rolled my ATV(serves me right). I took off all the skin on the top of my head, when my camera guy found me I had skin flaps over both ears, broke 4 vertabre, crushed 3 more( this is what hurts the most now), broke 8 ribs on the back side, punctured my right lung, torn my shoulder almost clear off, busted up my hand, stopped breathing twice on the ground and once during the ride. All of which I do NOT remember, I don't even recall getting on that stupid Polaris. I got my only helicopter ride out of it, just wish I could have been looking for stinky bulls,JK. I was still lucky enough to be back on the mountain this last year guiding more hunters. Kind of boring I know, but it's my story. I am glad there were people around that day, so I am around today. Thanks to all who helped my out.
PRO
B
bobcatbess
Guest
NOT BEING SMART BUT!!!
I'VE TOLD YOU FOR YEARS WHEELERS ARE NO GOOD!!!
EVEN THE ONES WITHOUT A .50 CALIBER SLUG THROUGH THE BLOCK!!!
GLAD TO HEAR YOU'RE BACK AT IT!!!
NOT BEING SMART BUT YOU EVER BEEN BACK ON A FRICKEN WHEELER???
isayNUNYA!!!
YOU'RE VERY WRONG!!!
I ONLY NEED ONE FOR THE WALL!!!
STILL HAVEN'T GOT HIM!!!
THE ONLY bobcat!!!
I'VE TOLD YOU FOR YEARS WHEELERS ARE NO GOOD!!!
EVEN THE ONES WITHOUT A .50 CALIBER SLUG THROUGH THE BLOCK!!!
GLAD TO HEAR YOU'RE BACK AT IT!!!
NOT BEING SMART BUT YOU EVER BEEN BACK ON A FRICKEN WHEELER???
isayNUNYA!!!
YOU'RE VERY WRONG!!!
I ONLY NEED ONE FOR THE WALL!!!
STILL HAVEN'T GOT HIM!!!
THE ONLY bobcat!!!
P
proutdoors
Guest
Rode one during the archery season, it was killing my back. I am done with them now. For the record, I never went offroad on them. I thought about horses but they have come close to killing me as well. Maybe I should SLOW down in life and enjoy the 'ride' more. I am a slow learner and have to get hit in the head every so often to WAKE THE HELL UP.
PRO
PRO
W
WARBIRDUM
Guest
I heard about your accident also I was down there guiding also in 05.I talked to a guy who was archery hunting and seen the helecopter take you off the mountain.
Sounds like a hell of a wreck good to hear you can still get out and enjoy the sounds of the fall.
Sounds like a hell of a wreck good to hear you can still get out and enjoy the sounds of the fall.
P
proutdoors
Guest
By fall you mean autumn right?
Back on topic, I agree they need to tweak this hunt, which I am sure will happen next year. We need to lower the bull/cow ratios on most if not all the units in Utah. I like the idea for in the future they do away with spike tags and give some of these units to the ww's of the world to hunt 280-330 class bulls with an occasional 350+ bull being found. This would take the pressure of the 'better' units. Make 6-10 of them premium and give the rest to the pisscutter boys. Pahvant, San Juan, Beaver, Boulder, Dutton, SW Desert, Monroe, Pangiutch, Book Cliffs, and West Desert would be my choices. Make the close to the city areas like Wasatch, Manti, Nebo and the rest of the units limited, just not as limited as they are now.
PRO
Back on topic, I agree they need to tweak this hunt, which I am sure will happen next year. We need to lower the bull/cow ratios on most if not all the units in Utah. I like the idea for in the future they do away with spike tags and give some of these units to the ww's of the world to hunt 280-330 class bulls with an occasional 350+ bull being found. This would take the pressure of the 'better' units. Make 6-10 of them premium and give the rest to the pisscutter boys. Pahvant, San Juan, Beaver, Boulder, Dutton, SW Desert, Monroe, Pangiutch, Book Cliffs, and West Desert would be my choices. Make the close to the city areas like Wasatch, Manti, Nebo and the rest of the units limited, just not as limited as they are now.
PRO
W
WARBIRDUM
Guest
PRO,
I meant autumn, I bet you dont want to hear the sounds of a fall ever again.Back on the topic I hope Utah can just keep the qaulity in all these great units for many years to come.
I meant autumn, I bet you dont want to hear the sounds of a fall ever again.Back on the topic I hope Utah can just keep the qaulity in all these great units for many years to come.
