MANAGEMENT TAGS?

[peakfreak]

At first I was excited to see these tags. Reason being big 5x's that nobody with a LE tag wants to shoot are dying of old age anyways and plus spreading their genes on.

I would think with a management tag the objective is to fill 100% of the tags. Why hunt in Nov. and not the rut.

How many tags are we talking about? Does anybody know?

Why not give just more LE tags out instead of doing management? I really don't see the difference. Basicly we are shooting the five points a year or two before they are 6x's anyways not to mention the busted 6x's.

Or if it's all about ratios and management then why not make them spike only management tags?

All I see is alot of problems waitng to happen.

Just my opinion. Whats yours?

 

[Founder]

The idea is to kill X number of management bulls, not to have a 100% success. If the success is projected to be 50%, then UDWR can issue twice as many tags. More opportunity.

The number of tags this year will be few, as I believe they want to try it and see how it works before over commiting.

5 point bulls are more desireable than spikes. Spike bull hunts are basically cow hunts. A big 5 point can be a real trophy to some. Plus, by killing spikes, you could very likely be killing bulls that will ultimately be 6x6 bulls. However, most 5-point bulls, especially older 5-point bulls, will never be the desireable 6-points.

Basically, if you kill a spike, there is a greater chance that you have kill a "Future" trophy bull. By killing a 5-point, there is a greater chance you are killing a bull that will never be considered a super trophy in Utah limited entry units.

Your first paragraph is the reason they are having the 5-point hunt. Broken bulls are a problem, you are right. When this plan was being discussed, many felt the hunt serve its purpose better if it were a soft-antler hunt (August), plus many felt people would be more interested in killing a big velvet covered 5-point. Obviously that died along the way. ?????

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[bobcatbess]

YA KNOW!!!

THIS THEORY OF 5 POINT BULLS DIEING OF OLD AGE NEEDS TO BE PROVED BEFORE I BELIEVE THE BULL$HIT!!!

I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW BLIND SOME OF YOU ARE!!!

OR HOW EASY THE DWR CAN BAFFLE YOU WITH THEIR BULL$HIT!!!

I WANT DOCUMENTED PROOF ON IT!!!

OH YA,I'M ASKING PLEASE!!!

ITS NOTHING MORE THAN A WAY TO SELL MORE PERMITS TO HELP KEEP OPPORTUNISTS HAPPY!!!

IF YOU TURN THESE QUALITY UNITS OVER TO THE AVERAGE TARD OR OPPORTUNIST IT WOULD ONLY BE TWO YEARS AND THEY'D WOULD BE SHOT IN THE ASS!!!

ADMIT IT,THESE SO CALLED MANAGEMENT BULL HUNTS ARE A JOKE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WANTING PROOF ON THESE 5 POINT BULLS DIEING OF OLD AGE!!!

 

[peakfreak]

Brian,
Thanks for sheding some light. So are you saying these are 50% opportunity tags and 50% management tags?

My point with the spike hunt was to prove if it's all about management. Spike only has worked great on the Beaver, Dutton, and Boulder. Those units have as much quality as any other. I'm not suggesting general spike, but limited number spike.

My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that 2 and 3 year old 5x rags most likley will be a 6x someday unless his genes say otherwise.

Nobody in their right mind would rather take a spike over a 5x or raghorn. I support you 100% on that.

Maybe they should be called opportunity tags? I'll buy that ,but still don't like it unless they harvest the mature 5x's and don't shoot busted 6x's. How they do that I don't know. That's why I suggested the spike deal.

 

[proutdoors]

Who is talking about 5 points dying of old age? Founder is talking about the 'soft antler' hunt dying.

Something to think about, if the ratio is lowered, there will be fewer broken up bulls, thus elimanating them from these management tag hunters. Get the raios more reasonable, have fewer broken bulls, healthier herds equal BIGGER bulls.

Eliminate the spike hunts and issue more LE tags on the 'spike' units for the opportunist hunters. Leave the premium units, 6-10 of them, for us 'horn hunters'.

PRO

 

[proutdoors]

Dutton is NOT a spike unit.

PRO

 

[peakfreak]

Big Kitty,

The proof is no one, hardly ever, brings them off the mountain. So you tell me where they go. Maybe by not growing a G-5 they live to be twenty(JK). Makes sense to me they die of old age. Ask Pro Biologist I bet he has the answer to that one. I'm just assuming, seems pretty simple.

 

[peakfreak]

Thanks Pro. I had to leave a bone for you somewhere.

 

[bobcatbess]

I'D ALSO LIKE PROOF THAT "ONCE A FIVE POINT,ALWAYS A 5 POINT"!!!

WHO DECIDED A 5 POINT BULL WAS JUNK GENETICS???

I HEAR OF ALL THESE MATURE BULLS DIEING IN L.E. ELK UNITS EVERY YEAR OF OLD AGE!!!

ITS AMAZING I'VE NEVER FOUND ONE IF ITS HAPPENING AS BAD AS EVERYBODY THINKS IT IS!!!

I KNOW IT MIGHT HAPPEN,BUT ITS DAMN RARE!!!

THERES ALOT OF DIFFERENT IDEA'S AROUND,I WISH SOMEBODY WOULD PUT SOME GOOD ONES INTO EFFECT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING MAYBE WE SHOULD OF CALLED THESE MANAGEMENT BULL HUNTS PISSCUTTER HUNTS!!!
(((PISSCUTTER IS A DINK!!!))) (UNLESS YOU'RE TALKING TO TUFF BUFF OR theridge!!!)

 

[bobcatbess]

GOD I'LL BE GLAD WHEN THE NON-TYPICAL MANAGEMENT BULL HUNTS ARE PUT INTO EFFECT!!!

ANY BULL WITH MORE THAN 6 POINTS PER SIDE IS ABNORMAL & JUNK,I CAN HEAR IT NOW,THEM ARE BULLS WITH PISS POOR GENETICS,LETS SHOOT THEM!!!

WITH THIS SO CALLED THOUGHT-UP MADE-UP DREAMED-UP 1 TO 1 BULL TO COW RATIO IT AIN'T GONNA BE LONG AND THEM BULLS WILL BE LINE BREEDING,YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS???

THERE ARE HUMANS DOING THAT SORT OF THING IN A SMALL TOWN NOT TO FAR FROM WHERE I LIVE,DAMN YOU OUGHT TO SEE THE GENETICS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat!!! OH YA!!!

 

[peakfreak]

BOB,

Who decided that 5 points were junk genetics? The LE hunters who always pass on them to shoot a 6x.

 

[bobcatbess]

THEM L.E. HUNTERS JUST DON'T WANT OPPORTUNISTS WITH LOW POINTS BOOMING ONE OF THE TROPY BULLS!!!

IT TAKES ALOT OF NICE 5 POINT BULLS TO MAKE BIG STINKY 6+ POINT BULLS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat!!!

 

[elkantlers]

The ones that decided that five points were junk and aren't worth shoting are all the people that give a hunter ##### if he shoots one. There are alot of people who wouldn't think of shooting a five point be cause there has been such a push to kill bigger and bigger bulls.

Good hell, there are alot of people that call 350" 6x6 bulls dinks right here on this site.

So basicly it is all of us that are to blame.

 

[Founder]

Peakfreak is right. The folks who draw premium tags do not want to kill a 5-point.

In nearly every species of animals there are animals with inferior genetics. There ARE bulls that never grow more than 5-points. The quality in our units are such that nobody wants to kill a 5-point when they draw the tags.

You probably do not find many laying dead simply because our elk herds have not reached a point where very many elk are dieing of old age. Elk live to be 20 years old. Most of our units have only had a large number of elk for 10-15 years.
In addition, regression would most likely occur before the bull ever dies. He may die with a raghorn looking 4x4 rack and you would never know if he topped out as a 400 incher or a small 5x5.

Some of our units are way out of wack. In fact, in my opinion, they are all out of wack. 100 bulls per 100 cows, 80 bulls per 100 cows is too many bulls to maintain a long lasting healthy herd.

We have the choice of either killing many spikes to keep it in check OR a smaller number of 5-point bulls. Many sportsmen would rather kill a 5-point.

By killing 5-point bulls, there is a chance that you might kill a bull that someday would have been a big 6-point. HOWEVER, by killing a spike, there is a greater chance that you are killing a bull that might have been a 6-point, simply because a great portion of bulls will grow to be 6-points than not.
The hope is that hunters will not be seeking raghorn 5-points, but rather larger, fully mature 5-points. If a bull is fully mature, yet still only grows 5-points, odds are that he would never be a larger 6-point.

It's no different than management deer hunts. There's plenty of research from private ranches and such that shows that harvesting what you believe is an inferior animal is better than just killing a bunch of yearlings.

I would have liked to see the hunt a soft-anter hunt to ensure that busted bulls were not being killed. I don't know why that was changed, but it was.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[peakfreak]

Well said Founder. I guess all we can do now is have HOPE that these hunters will step up and kill mature 5x's.

 

[bobcatbess]

I'LL PUT MONEY ON THIS ONE!!!

I'LL BET THERE ARE THE BOYS SITTING BACK WITH 7 OR LESS POINTS READY TO JUMP ON THIS MANAGEMENT BULL HUNT!!!

I'LL BET ALOT OF THEM WILL BE LOOKING FOR LARGE 5 X 6'S,5 X 7'S,5 X 8'S & 5 X 9'S!!!

I'LL BET ALOT OF THEM ONCE THEY DRAW THE PERMIT WILL BE SPENDING COUNTLESS TIME SCOUTING & LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT BULL!!!

I'LL BET IF THEY DON'T FIND WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR BEFORE SEASON SOME WILL TURN THEIR TAGS BACK!!!

I'LL BET THE ONES THAT DON'T FIND THE BULL THEY'RE LOOKING FOR DURING THE HUNT ARE NOT GOING TO EAT TAG SOUP,THUS SHOOTING THE DINK RAGHORN 5 POINT OR LESS RATHER THAN THE "BAD GENETIC 5 POINT BULL" THAT FOUNDER MENTIONS!!!

ANY WAGERS???

THE ONLY bobcat GAMBLING IN UTAH & WILLING TO MAKE BETS!!!

 

[UThunting]

Well I will say this if I do draw a Managment tag I will try and find a big 5x5 or maybe somthing better as long as there is 5 points on one side it will be legal

And if it gets down to my last couple days I will shoot a rag bull

Thats just the facts

bobcatbest,

I see your point but I think there is other points on this subject that I can see just as well

Kinda hard to make everyone happy

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah

 

[Founder]

I was excited about this hunt being a soft-antler hunt. I thought it would be kind of cool to maybe kill a big velvet bull. The busted bull thing does throw a curve that could hurt quality a little.

I would like to see more quality though. I don't see eye-to-eye with others on that though. I'd like to see less or no rut elk hunts and double the hunters in October.

Maybe if we can get the legislature to change the Utah deer opener, something like that will happen. ???

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[bobcatbess]

Clynt!!!

JUST TO CLARIFY THINGS!!!

MY NAME IS bobcatbess!!!

NOT BOBCATBEST!!!

NOW THERE IS A BOBCATBEST HERE AT MM!!!

HE'S A GOOD EGG BUT I'M NOT HIM!!!

I HEARD YOU RAISED HELL WITH THE UTAH DEER HERD THIS YEAR???

THE ONLY bobcat WAITING FOR MORE DETAILS ON THAT???

 

[UTmonsterslayer]

i was just wondering if the bobcat has every been to indian peaks? just curious.

 

[bobcatbess]

HEY UTmonsterslayer!!!

I HAVEN'T!!!

I LIKE VENTURING INTO NEW PLACES THOUGH!!!

AM I MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING???

THE ONLY bobcat!!!

 

[peakfreak]

Just alot of hot sagebrush not worth the gas money for Bessy.IMO

 

[isayNUNYA]

Bess would get lost out there and either wind up in hermitage growning onions and cabbage or gettin pimped on a street corner in Hamlin.

 

[Show_Me_Your_Rack]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-07 AT 01:44PM (MST)[p]I love it i am going to shoot a 450 5X5 or should i wait till next year to see if he gets a g5 that he has never had the past 5 years the peaks need this hunt the only problem that i see is people shooting broke bulls or young ones that have not hit there potential bu if the hunters with the tags shoot mature rag horn bulls instead of ones that are broke i think it will be successful!!! thats just me though






Trevor the one with zero education but knows all!!!

 

[UThunting]

bobKitty

Sorry bud did not catch the name that close anyway I wish that I did do good in Utah but there is no deer in Utah to go after and I only got one deer in Wyoming and it needed to be in the rut and dumb for me to get it but my wife and daughter killed some deer last fall in Wyoming and Idaho it was a great year hope to do it again but I just found out that the wife is going to have a baby in september so that will slow us up a little but I can always try

UThunting
The only hunter on MM that cant figure out what caused my wife to get pregnant!!!!!!

 

[UTmonsterslayer]

bobcat,
you are missing out on a butt load of 5 points. that's it. if any unit needs this hunt, sw desert does. people should be required to shoot mature 5x's, and if you can't tell what one is, don't apply.

 

[drydirt]

Sounds like poor management to me. Perhaps you should implement a "management hunt" in your personal life.

 

[UThunting]

dridirt

Sounds like a good idea but we will call it management humping not managemaent Hunting

Anyone want to set the ground rules ?????????

UThunting Just not in September of 07 &$%#%**^&(%$%^*(

Good luck all in the 2007 hunts

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah