Guide or No Guide?

M

muleyguy

Guest
Hate to stir the pot some more, but I think it would be interesting to see who on this site has guided in the past at some time or is currently a guide/outfitter now? Just a simple answer will suffice: Type either "guide" or "no guide".

This will go a long way towards ferreting out the biases that currently exist and could explain the source of a lot of the arguments currently going on. The first step in solving the mule deer problem is making sure the decision making process is independent. The real problem with mule deer management is that all the people who are "managing" them (DWR) or all the people who are the strongest influences on the DWR (Guides) have been making all the management decisions. All of these people deciding the fate of our mule deer also have a built in financial incentive to NOT restrict the hunting of these animals anymore than they absolutely have to. That is one of the problems with websites like these is that you can hide behind the computer and not reveal anything about yourself, so it is impossible to understand the real motives behind peoples words.

So, I will start it out: "NO Guide", just a regular hunter who wants a quality experience in the field, even if it has to be every other year.

muleyguy
 
Muley
I live here in Utah but I'm a licensed Master Guide in Nevada.
Unfortunately Utah doesn't require a license to be a guide.
I don't believe the majority of guides have very much influence with the DWR, because if they would listen to me there would be no more governors tags or any other special interest tags. I believe they listen to a few influential people and MONEY. It used to they would manage for the deer with a budget far smaller then they have today, operated out of a one room office and had far fewer employees. Now thay have a larger budget, hundreds of worthless employees and nice new office buildings. And our deer herds are declining. Go figure
Wes

Screw the wolves, save the Cowboys
 
DO YOU HEAR THAT BobcatMess???

I DIDN'T EVEN SAY IT!!!

'THAT IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH WEBSITES LIKE THESE IS THAT YOU CAN HIDE BEHIND THE COMPUTER AND NOT REVEAL ANYTHING ABOUT YOURSELF.'

THE ONLY bobcat NOT HIDING BEHIND FAKE PHONY WANNA-BE NAMES!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-04 AT 00:10AM (MST)[p]Where do you guide about wes? I have a buddy who is getting the neccessary requirements to become a certified Elk guide for nevada. He is a Well Known Guide outa colorado.



-Cass
 
Guide. However muleyguy & wes I agree with your posts outfitters & landowners have a huge influence here in Utah. I also personally believe that our #1 priority needs to be managing for the benefit of our deer herds. Once this happens then Utah Dwr can then direct there attention to others who my benefit form this resource including the general public
 
I do agree that most guides are good people, but most states have a guide/outifitter association and most of the guides pay dues to be a part of the organization. That organization then does much of the lobbying on part of the individual guides. Much like the Farm Bureau, I am a farmer and I pay my dues into the Farm Bureau and then they in turn are the ones who do all the lobbying.

Also, I am not familiar with how the Nevada game dept and legislatures make their game decisions, but whatever they are doing, it is right! Somehow in Nevada they have been able to put tight restrictions on hunting and get everybody (including guides) to buy off on it. Nevada is a success story! The problem is that in many other Western states it is well documented the political power that the guiding industry has. It is somewhat shocking that Utah doesn't even have a licensing system for their guides?? And, I do think it is relevant in the context of what we are arguing to know what "side" people on this website are on, so I thank Wes for being honest.

muleyguy
 
Was a guide....
For some reason genral public in this state is so jelious of guides and outfitters it makes me sick. If you are so fed up with outfitters why dont you go foot the $100,000 it takes to lease any decent parcel of private land in this state. Then you can manage you own CWMU as you see fit.
 
Was a guide many years ago before they started all the beaurocratic bullcrap.
 
Muleyguy- No offense intended but I think the very idea of this unscientific poll is ludicrous. It doesn't go a long ways towards ferreting out biases because that assumption itself is based on a bias that those who have guided will think one way and those who haven't will think and respond another way. Think about it.

Just because someone has guided doesn't mean a damn thing other than THEY HAVE GUIDED!

That being said. It is in my opinion that guides and outfitters have trouble making decisions concerning wildlife if it means that it affects their pocketbook in a negative manner.

You asked.
 
I guided buck hunters for 11 years, it's 50/50 with me, depends on which state your hunting...don't think I'll ever get the chance on hunting Utah ever again......
 
1st Year Licenced Guide

Our system here in BC is way different than much of the states. Every outfitter must get government certification and hire only licenced guides. They can only operate within a designated territory which they must purchase for huge dollars. The territories are still public land, the outfitter just owns the right to guide there. If they neglect the management aspects of the territory by over booking and such, they are really hurting their pocketbook in the longrun. It is good for business for outfitters to actually care about the animals within their territories. Hard to sell hunts and make money when the quality of the animals suck. And really hard to sell the territory and get your money back if the quality of the animals suck. The first ones to call for a tag reductions, season reductions and the such is usually the outfitters when they see problems arising.
 
Let me add to my answer, when I was guiding I thought as a hunter first and foremost, money had little to do with it for me at least, I just loved being out there hunting period.....

So when I saw our deer numbers tumbling down I decided to quit guide 'n, but it was an accident that really pushed me to quit guiding....
 
Buckspy,

It is not intended to by a scientific poll, but there is a radical difference between somebody who is a guide and somebody who is just a normal sportsman. It seems we ALL agree that something is terribly wrong with the mule deer herds, but there is MASSIVE disagreement on what the solutions might be. That is where the nut gets cracked here....the solutions to the problem. Of course guides want good mule deer herds, I am not arguing that. Guides will tend to argue the bigger issues (habitat, development on winter range, etc) to solve the mule deer numbers. Sportsman on the other hand will accept lower tag numbers more readily because we have no direct financial involvement in it. There are really 4 groups of people who carry the day when mule deer decisions get made: 1. Game Dept. 2. Sportsman 3. Guides 4. Landowners. Unfortunately, 3 out of the 4 groups have a vested financial interest in the number of tags given out. That is why it is like pulling teeth to get lower tag numbers. So, I am not trying to conduct any scientific poll, but the money issue is the number one thing driving mule deer management, that is a fact. So, before you have any legitimate discussion with anybody on the subject, you better know where they are coming from.

muleguy
 
Guide (really an outfitter).

But I am ALWAYS the first to argue for reduced seasons and quotas, so your assumptions are WRONG. And I'm a landowner, too. Finally, I have NO INFLUENCE with the Game and Fish. I have BEGGED for reduced seasons and no doe hunting on muleys for years, along with extra licenses for cow elk and doe whitetails. I have had no luck, and am convinced that in Wyoming, Game and Fish is much more inclined to listen to landowners and hunters, but they try to avoid agreeing with outfitters.

So don't assume that because we are guides or outfitters that we think one way. Not true. I'm a hunter and mule deer fan first - everything else is secondary.

Jim
 
Not a guide.


The only problem I have with outfitters in Wy, is the nonresident rule. The fact that you have to have a guide to hunt the wilderness is disappointing.
Thanks
Mike
 
NO GUIDE! I feel that guides should be licensed in Utah like any other buisness. The are making money on the publics land and our wildlife. Maybe guides should pay trophy fees to the state?
There should be some kind of fee for taking trophy big game.
 
3DEER
IN UTAH, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE LICENED.. BUT YOU HAVE TO BE INSURED AS A GUIDE OR OUTFITTER TO BUY THE STATE OR FED. PERMITS FOR THE PUBLIC GROUND YOU ARE GUIDING YOUR HUNTS ON. THEN AT THE END OF YOUR HUNT YOU HAVE TO REPORT WHAT YOU EARNED $$$ DURING THESE HUNTS, AND PAY A PERCENTAGE FOR GUIDING OR OUTFITTING ON THE PUBLIC GROUND, TO THE BLM AND US FOREST SERVICE.... MORE TO IT THAN YOU THINK ( IF YOUR DOING IT LEGAL?)
WHICH ALOT OF UTAH GUIDES AREN'T...
LEGAL GUIDE!!
 
Sportsman
>on the other hand will
>accept lower tag numbers more
>readily because we have no
>direct financial involvement in it.
>muleguy

I'm sorry but I really disagree. When you lower tag numbers, you have to raise prices. Why? So the same amount of money is generated with less tags. Just making a point.
By the way, NO GUIDE.

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
elkahol,
So how does the BLM and Forest Service regulate these guide services? Another thing that drives be nuts are these wana be guides that are sell outs "RATS" that give up the locations of these great animals for $$$ and or to get thier name & picture on a web site, magazine or video! It's all about the $$$! Makes me sick!!!!
 
Almost embarassed to admit: Outfitter/Guide. You fellows should count your blessings for in Kalifornicated the guides have NO influence with the Dept of Fish and Game. The liberal Hollywood types have more influence than we do. It's a joke. Biologist do herd surveys that show that their is a decline in deer numbers and the commission (on the recomendation of tax increasing liberals) allocate more tags and longer seasons.

I spend over 200 days in the field and feel like I have a pulse of the migratory herd deer numbers. Unfortunately, the friggin left wing cognuts are only concerned about revenue and more revenue. They don't listen to people in the know and are only trying to please every inconsequential group on the left coast.

I sincerely believe that most outfitters/guides believe that seasons and bag limits should be reduced if it warrants it. And most Western states are in that category.


And for those of you that dislike the Gov tags so much, let me assure you it's not a slam dunk like most of you think. Most trophy hunters are pickier (Is that a word?) than 773H and many times eat their tag instead of whacking a younger buck with potential.

I know the UT Gov tag holder for this year shot a Chile buck, but what about the CO and AZ tag holders?

I'am finished. Rick
 
No Guide, however I have spent tens of thousands with guides in the past and no dought will spend much more in the future. For me,its not that I need a guide but mainly to get access to the land the outfitter or guide has leased............rf
 
No guide....but have plenty of freinds that are, and beleive me they are just as burnt about the mule deer problem as anyone. My freinds take the AZ Gov guy out almost every year and they usually are succesful. But just because they kill a trophy ( one by the way) how are they hurting the mass? I dont really understand what you're drivin at? I think the problem has to do with all the greenies out there trying to save everything thats killin our deer ( ie; wolves and no trapping laws) plus they push the DWR into spending our sportsmans dollars on crap like studying the desert tortise and the weasle relocation program ( blackfooted ferret)! The antis have totally taken over all the game management. They are attacking us and using our money by slipping in the back door!
 
Muleyguy,
Sure there are a few bad guides out there but most guides don't fit your stereotype.
The answer to your question is no guide.
 

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