Food Plots - Go Vote @ RT

Just voted, but it's going to take a lot of votes to overcome those easterners. They are seriously attached to their food plots.

Doug
 
I haven't looked at the thread yet, but I take it you guys are abit anti food plot. Hell, I was trying to figure out how to plant a nice little ornamental juniper patch around my treestand areas!
 
BCBOY-
Some have started to voice another opinion than they have and they are whacking us off the site one by one.
Still got my vote in and am still able to post again for the time geing no matter how short it may be.
Best,
Jerry
 
If food plots are outlawed, what will Bubba do? He'll just have to cruise around on his 4 wheeler and scatter corn in front of his box blind. Oh wait - that's what most of them do anyhow. LOL. Gotta go, I think there's a special on the Outdoor Channel and I don't want to miss that "hard hunt" where they have to sit in the box blind for 2 hours before the big whitetail buck comes out and around the high fence corner to eat at the automatic corn feeder.
 
Hell, I got banned on my first post last night. What a bunch of douche bags! Haaahaaaa..
Eric
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Life long "vagitarian"
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Well guys look at it this way. In the states that allow food plots I think it is ok. B/c first of all hunting areas is a damn jungle of woods. Really thick stuff. The deer in most states that allow food plots are over populated bad! And even with food plots they still dont kill enough deer to meet their management qoutas. I personally think that foods plots are good, only for areas with this problem ( over population ). Plus its very benifical to a lot of wildlife. Including the declining numbers of bob white qauil in the south ( most food plots are wheat, oats, and some kind of winter pea which the qauil thrive on). For the over populated southern states i believe corn will be legal in a few years. There is simply to many deer. And about 95 percent of all of them are nocturnal so its very hard to reduce thier numbers to make a healthy herd. If you want to make a sound disicision on this matter take up whitetail hunting in the southern states your opinion will change a lot quicker than you think. Now dont get me wrong, ther eare certain places for this, and i think the game and fish have done a good job on where to legalize this type of hunting.

later, MP
 
AJ
Yea I do like to stir the pot. Can't have a vote that is all one sided can we? It's funny reading the posts over there. No one wants to break ranks and disagree. Everyone follows like Ba Ba Little Sheep. If you disagree, it seems that you are then labeled as a $hit disturber. Well, I disagree with the masses of followers over on RT on this subjsect and it has always been my nature to buck against the crowd.
 
MP,
There were some simliar reasonings over on RT before they axed the Jerry's post. I'm curious though, those states are really over populated, wouldn't food plots just make matters worse by allowing deer that should die naturally to stay alive. Nature normally takes care of overpopulation by having the natural food sources over browsed and then a huge die off. I know it sounds harsh but it is natures way. By planting unnatural food sources, with high protien, in an over populated herd, I would think that that would just be increasing the problem. Nature will get the balance back though. High populations breeds disease.
 
If food plots are bad, then we need to high fence all the alfalfa fields out west, or just outlaw them and make everybody plant native grasses. Right? Yes, they are just farmer's fields, but what you call them doesn't make it different for the deer who eat there. What about all the corn fields in the midwest, also no difference to the deer. They are all FOOD PLOTS to the deer. Just because the field is planted solely for deer doesn't make the effects any better or worse than a farmer's field. Just FOOD for thought.

Also, I feel sure that food plots do increase hunter success (make the hunting easier) which should increase harvest in overpopulated states. If I have to choose between increasing harvest (meat in the freezer) or letting nature take its course (starving deer), I choose increasing harvest.

Bottom line is most people are going to believe that what their Dad taught them is right. If you grew up believing it is ok, no one is going to change your mind.

I like to stir the pot too.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
TXhunter58,

The main difference between the alfalfa fields and oat fields and such out west and "food plots" are that the fields are planted for farmers to make money in most cases, as food plots are planted to bait deer in. If the state says its legal I"m not going to chastise the guys who do it, but they are "baiting" deer in and the farm fields here are for different purposes. Its illegal to "bait" deer in most of the west, so we have to look for them in their natural habitat or in "farm fields".
 
I was answering the accusation that Food Plots are bad for deer. The deer doesn't know any difference between a farmer's field and a food plot to "bait" them. If food plots are bad for deer then farmer's fields are bad too.

As far as your comment, I know of lots of hunters that use farmer's fields to "bait" the deer in the west. Again, no difference to the deer. They are coming to a man made crop. Just because we plant it as a crop, and we don't call it a food plot, it becomes legal. But it still "baits" the deer.

The real difference in a true "bait" station and a field/food plot, is that with the field the deer can come to eat when HE wants to. He doesn't have to come in the daylight at all. With a true "bait" station, they are set to go off in daylight hours, and "trains" the deer to come during shooting hours.

And around and around and around we go.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
WellWell,

How about helping the deer herds especially the Mule deer!! Here in New Mexico it is so dry that all we have is rocks, The deer need a lot of help. I wish more ranchers would set aside more land and rotate cattle to save there own pastures instead of playing poker with the rain, plant Winterfat, Four wing salt bush or put in water to help it would certainly help the fawn survival rates! the west needs to get it together or the resource is going to get very thin and then we will be talking about when they used to let us hunt. I think native food plots raise more than they take as long as it is a managed approach we all win.
 
I think the main differentiation is that we need to be sure that the RT boys are talking about whitetails, not deer. I've always consdiered mule deer "real deer" and whitetails are just giant rats with white tails. We should be so lucky as to have excess populations of muleys that we need to bait and plant food plots to keep herd numbers at acceptable levels. I went to the site and could not vote. You guys must have made it tough for others to get on to vote. Thanks for the fun post, BC and Jerry.
 
I suspect that BC would dissagree about the rats analogy. I am sure he sees some bruiser whitetails! I also agree it is a good discussion.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
what the heck is so bad about food plots . first of all, it gives the deer good nutrition that helps them grow healthy and also, some areas are so thick that it is hard to hunt. i dont see why some people whine about everything.
 
Here is what my reply was, and I stand by it(Sorry, its a little long):

First off: Hunting should test a humans ability to read the landscape, match the animal's NATURAL instincts and habits, and PURSUE game stealthily and skillfully. (That definiition came from a Wisconsin Natural Resources magazine---Eastern right??) Food plots and feeders change the animals natural instincts and habits. They train the animal to respond to the feeding area at a time convenient for the killer to shoot and kill them. Noteice I said killer, because without a hunt, all you are doing is killing.
"By definition, hunting is the pursuit of a wild animal with the intent to capture or kill. Pursuit, the actual chase, precedes the kill; without it, hunting is merely killing. The chase, then, authenticates the hunt and, in turn, the kill puts an end to the chase.

Understood this way, hunting, particularly sport hunting, is about how we, as hunters, engage in the activity?the chase?leading up to the kill. Without restrictions on how we pursue game, the ?hunt? loses meaning, ceases to exist. So the question remains, what is a fair chase? " (exerpt from Outdoor Central)

As for FAIR CHASE: Jim Posewitz, a leading authority on hunting ethics and author of the book Beyond Fair Chase, describes fair chase as ?a balance that allows hunters to occasionally succeed while animals generally avoid being taken.?

In this view, the kill is the exception and escape is the rule. Simply put, a chase is fair if the animal has a reasonable chance of escaping the pursuit unharmed. If the animal has little or no chance, the chase is not fair. Fair chase demands a balance of power between hunter and hunted: the hunter?s ability to track, pursue, and acquire an animal must not be greater than the animal?s abilities to elude capture or death.

Fair chase is, ultimately, an expression of the desire to limit the discretionary power of the hunter so that sport hunting will remain enjoyable, challenging, and true to its original character.

For the modern sport hunter with all the advantages of modern technology at his or her disposal, a fair chase ethic imposes a voluntary limitation on the means the hunter may employ to achieve an end. Fair chase is not about the fairness of the kill (the end) but about the fairness of the chase (the means). In fair chase hunting, not only do the means justify the end, but the means are the end: the chase is the hunt. And a fair chase hunter earns the privilege to take an animal?s life by mastering the skills of the hunt.

"A fair chase hunter EARNS the privelage to take an animals life by mastering the skills of th hunt"--Its not a right given to you by spending your time and money planting a plot of land to bait game onto your land.

Another problem with food plots and feeders is that they concentrate deer into a certain area: Since the 1930s wildlife biologists have been concerned that artificial feeding and baiting can change the normal feeding patterns, behavior and migrations of wild animals, particularly in winter when natural food supplies dwindle or are buried under ice and snow. As deer concentrate around a bait pile or feeding station, the animals could spread disease through nose-to-nose contact, sneezing, breathing, salivating, urinating and defecating on feed that may be eaten or inhaled by other animals.
Growing food plots does the same thing creating a potential for disease spread. If you grow 15 acres of corn and let it stand for the winter, that's just supplemental feeding on a stalk. Disease spread might not be as rapid as in a winter deer yard, but the deer are licking each other constantly, and have nose-to-nose contact. They would likely transmit the disease if it were there. (Again, from the Wisconsin DNR)

Where is the conservation in that???? Food plots also take away from Mother Natures ability to thin the herds. Naturally, deer in a natural setting, without food plots, might not find enough food to make it through the winter. These sick, weak, deer would take the natural route and die, therefore allowing the deer herds to be naturally culled. Food plots and feeders actually add to the "population problems" and allows these "sick and weak" deer to make it yet another year....in many cases allowing them to pass on their diseaes to other members of the herd, also visiting the food plot or feeder....

Buckee: You wrote the following:
"Fair chase allows the hunter to pursue game, using hunting skills, knowledge of wildlife and outdoor savvy, without putting game at an unfair disadvantage. Following the rules of fair chase makes you more than a hunter, it makes you a "sportsman."

Where is the pursuit with a food plot, where is the skill, where is the outdoor saavy......food plots and feeders do put deer at an unfair advantage......I agree, those who take the time to learn the skills to PUSUE deer in their natural environment--skillfully and steathily, match their NATURAL habits and instincts.....are following the ethics of fair chase....and you are right, that makes them more than hunters, that makes them SPORTSMAN.

Some actions may be legal and still be unfair, based on your abilities, your equipment and the animals' abilities to get away. EXACTLY---Foodplots and feeders may be legal, but they are unfair to the animal. YOu have all of the advantage. You are in a warm box or blind, waiting for the animal to come to a plot of land it has been "basically trained" to come to (what deer wouldnt prefer the easy route to finding food....rather than actually having to forage).....where is that animals advantage.....he walks into a death trap with little to no chance of escaping with his life.

Now, I know that I will probably not change all of your minds, but hopefully I will have made a few of you think and reevalute what you conisder HUNTING and FAIR CHASE to be. Remember, just because its LEGAL, doesn't always mean its ETHICAL or RIGHT.

TUFF

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Remember who you are and what you stand for!!
 
BCBOY, in response to your response.. Most of the food plots are of plants that were once abundant from farming. Well since farming has changed a lot in southern states it had left the deer with nothing to eat. Most soybean, wheat, oats, and corn farmers have sold thier land to pine farms. Food plots are just about the only way to see deer down here, due to the habitat. If it wasnt for food plots most states wouldnt take the number of deer they do ( or need to ). Due to the type of habitat southern whitetails are hunted in it makes them really hard to find, even though they are there. You do bring up some really good points, about letting nature take its own course, however the whitetail deer is the most adaptable deer on north america, what they would do is move into the nieghborhoods at night and head straight to the gardens. And what farms are still around wouldnt get a crop one if food plots were outlawed. So far, food plots have been one of the best ways to manage deer populations. I planted food plots, matter a fact a couple of of them. I hardly ever hunt them b/c the big bucks wont show thier face in one during daylight hours. I tend to just hunt the rub lines and scrape lines. It wouldnt bother me one bit if food plots were outlawed. Due to the popularity of food plots and what these food plots have done to improve the qaulity of deer i doubt we'll ever see it outlawed.

later, MP
 
Tuffbucker,

The only problem with all you wrote is this....

Your definition, or Posewitz's definition or whoevers definition of hunting and fair chase is just that.....individual definitions. Not everyone agrees with them and some would flat say they are phooey. Personally, I do agree with most of it, but have some shortcomings with some of what Pos has to say. I make my own ethical standards and usually follow them. As the season winds down and my freezer gets emptier, then I start hunting for an animal to kill. If a bull steps out on the side of the road and stands there long enough for me to jump out and blast him, I will. Earlier in the season I wouldn't.....well, unless he was huge...but then I would feel like I cheated him and I'd never really be satisfied with the rack hanging in the rafters.

There are many, many people that believe that hunting is going out and trying to kill an animal, at whatever cost as long as its legal. If they succeed they are happy and they aren't worried about some writers code of ethics. Are they wrong? No. They have a different opinion than you and I, but they aren't wrong. I hate to force my beliefs and opinions on people. I offer them up, as you have, and hope for the best, but if there was some sort of ballot initiative that mandated all hunters to live by Pos's code of ethics, I'd vote against it. It just isn't for everyone, and it shouldn't have to be.

I'm still not sure how I feel about food plots. I see the benefits, I see that downfalls. I guess I haven't weighed and compared them enough yet.

How about bear baiting...whats your guys stance on that?
 
Hornseeker,

I agree with what you wrote, about everyone having their on definition....Im sure if people really wanted to they could find a loop hole or something unethical in almost everyones defintion of fair chase hunting......

I dont want to force my ethics upon anyone else either, rather than provide another point of view from what people are used to. I have learned a lot from the OPINIONS of many on this site, and I hope that others have as well. When you see things from different angles, you will always learn a little more to help you make the most informed decision.

I appreciate your response to my post. Good luck this year!!

TUFF
 
lion hound,
no, i wasnt, i meant to say "have they seen a mule deer before" a rhetorical question for the realtree boys.



Later Yall!!!!
mule-deer.gif
 
MP,
That's a very thought out logical answer. Thanks! I guess it takes a Western boy stuck back East to word it in a manner that the rest of us Westerners can understand. LOL!
What's your thoughts on what has lead to such a high over population of whitetails? If the main natural food sources are gone, I would have thought the population would be struggling. I do know those buggers are adaptable. When I lived in the Okanagan region of BC we had a whack of them living on our property. I picked up sheds only feet from our house. Whereas rarely ever saw a muley anywhere near the property even though we were butted up against one of the largest mule deer winter ranges in the province.

When it comes to ethics, really the only things unethical are when a law is broken. It is not unethical to kill a deer on a food plot. It is not unethical to kill a deer in a western orchard. It isn't even unethical to kill a deer on a High Fenced hunt. The reason why I say that is because it is not unethical for me to shoot a steer in the pen when I want beef. It is not unethical for me to catch a chicken in the chicken coop so I can chop it's head off. Ethics don't really play into it. Fair chase and ethics aren't really the same thing.
 
One thing I know, that part of the ethics definition about me getting something once in a while, but the game escaping most the time.....I got that part licked big time! I get an "A" in ethics!

I think that BC Boy may have hit that pretty well....fair chase and ethics not being the same thing. IF a state wants deer killed and they allow some methods of hunting/harvesting that some or even most dont consider fair chase, it would still be ethical to use those methods. It would be your desicion though. I also say that someones personal code of conduct may deem some things unethical that ARE legal....? I think that makes sense.

On the ethics things...on another site I frequent there is a loud mouth that thinks that NO ONE should EVER shoot at an elk with a bow over 29 yards. He says its unethical. I say phoooey on him, but I may take his position once that range gets up to the 60 yard mark or so....maybe.

I want to go horn hunting right now!
 
Hornseeker,
I think I agree with you on the ethics thing. Everyone has a set of personal ethics that they and only they have to adhere to. Some it is shooting distances, some it is hunting techniques and the list goes on. But then there are some that have no ethics. They will do anything at anytime to get the animal be it legal or not. They are the true scum of the earth.
I strongly support the fair chase code of hunting set up by Teddy many years ago. I am glad that the sportsman of the past in my province helped set the Fair Chase Laws that we now have and that the sportsman of today are still voicing their opinions of fairchase as technology changes.
I can admit that my ideas about food plots have changed because of our Eastern brothers. My idea was strictly based on the Bull$hit hunting shows that RealTree, Mossyoak and Buckmasters represent. Many over there do have a different mindset than what Bill Jordan and his crew promote. And there are many who still think the world of those Eastern hunting gurus and will kiss ass no matter. I see Buckee is now defending High Fenced hunts as Fair Chase. He'll be featured in an upcoming Real Tight hunt for sure now. LMFAO!
 
speaking of high game fences. I took a drive the other day on a dirt road called "fosters loop". Which runs along a very large river. Very fertaile ground, lots of crops, lots of deer. To drive down fosters loop you pass the famous " westerfelt hunting lodge" owned by Jack Warner and a couple other strictly managed "game units". ( i have never understood the term "game units", maybe one of you will help me out?? I have always called it shooting fish in a barrel, but now i hear its called something diffrent. ) Many "southern " hunting shows are filmed on these places. Well i havent taken that drive in a while, maybe 2 years. And guess what, nothing but 14 ft chainlink fences. Just about made me sick. Then I'm told every hunting resort is getting these game fences. Now isnt there laws against this in anyway? Doesnt this trap migrating animals? Does putting a fence around the property make it a pen? kennel? or whatever you might like to call it? I dont care if it is 2,000 acres, its just a big ass kennel. I figured there would be laws against killing penned game? Sorry its off the topic but i had a few questions about it. And you know what is even more funny? They have food plots inside of pens to kill deer! They use dogs to drive deer to hunters inside a pen. I guess those boys just dont want the big one to get away! I would disagree on fair chase here! Can you enter a animal in B&C or P&Y that is killed in these circumstances?

a confused, MP
 
First off I find many things I could argue against your concept of fair chase. I own 160 acres on which I can hunt I don't hunt my nieghbors land and they don't hunt mine. I have not ever had a bait pile for deer. A bait pile is very different than a food plot. Food plots vary in size and are very tough to pattern deer on. I am primarily a bow hunter and have hunted all over the west as well as my home state of wisconsin.
How would you fair chase an animal when your chase ends at the fenceline? using a food plot enables us to attract does and bucks into the area we have to hunt.
Food plots don't mean that deer will have an easy time. Our deer still go into winter yards and ignore the food plot of corn and soybeans.
 

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