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Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?
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hog
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Feb-23-07, 
10:08 AM (MST)
"Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I can't see a big advantage. I see the 300 WSM shoots around 3000fps compared to 3100fps for the win mag and 3200-3300 for the Weatherby(180 gr). I personally shoot a win mag and my handloads I can get to around 3150 with nosler bullets. Even the 300 RUM seems like a very inefficient round as it takes a lot of powder to get an extra 250 fps. What do you guys think?

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Why a 300 ...  Bambistew      Feb-23-07   1 
  RE: Why a 300 ...  Colville      Feb-23-07   2 
   RE: Why a 300 ...  hog      Feb-23-07   3 
    RE: Why a 300 ...  moneyman      Feb-23-07   4 
     RE: Why a 300 ...  YukonDall      Feb-23-07   5 
      RE: Why a 300 ...  BCHunter      Feb-23-07   6 
    RE: Why a 300 ...  schmalts      Feb-23-07   8 
 RE: Why a 300 ...  Roadtrip      Feb-23-07   7 
  RE: Why a 300 ...  HerbD      Feb-24-07   9 
   RE: Why a 300 ...  Trophymossb...      Feb-24-07   10 
    RE: Why a 300 ...  huntindude      Feb-24-07   11 
     RE: Why a 300 ...  YukonDall      Feb-24-07   12 
      RE: Why a 300 ...  Trophymossb...      Feb-24-07   13 
       RE: Why a 300 ...  huntindude      Feb-24-07   14 
        RE: Why a 300 ...  YukonDall      Feb-24-07   15 
         RE: Why a 300 ...  huntindude      Feb-25-07   16 
 RE: Why a 300 ...  redrabbit      Feb-25-07   17 
  RE: Why a 300 ...  canhunter      Feb-25-07   18 
   RE: Why a 300 ...  canhunter      Feb-25-07   19 
    RE: Why a 300 ...  YukonDall      Feb-25-07   20 
     RE: Why a 300 ...  Trophymossb...      Feb-25-07   21 
      RE: Why a 300 ...  257Tony      Feb-25-07   22 
       RE: Why a 300 ...  Pre64      Feb-26-07   23 
        RE: Why a 300 ...  2pointer      Feb-27-07   24 
         RE: Why a 300 ...  SLIVER      Feb-28-07   25 
          RE: Why a 300 ...  2pointer      Feb-28-07   26 
           RE: Why a 300 ...  Jake_Sorens...      Feb-28-07   27 
            RE: Why a 300 ...  canhunter      Mar-01-07   28 
             RE: Why a 300 ...  Pre64      Mar-01-07   29 
 RE: Why a 300 ...  manny15      Mar-01-07   30 

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Bambistew
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Feb-23-07, 
10:16 AM (MST)
1. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

None offer anything over a 30-06 inside 300 yards.

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Colville
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Feb-23-07, 
10:58 AM (MST)
2. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

You don't buy the wsm for the ballistics. The WSM offers the chance to get a short action, lighter weight mountain rifle configuation in a 30 mag. If you are a backpack hunter or hunt long and hard on your feet this is a nice feature. The physics just don't pan out to take any of a littany of rounds over another out to 300 yards. I would be motivated by selecting a larger/heavier bullet before 150 fps. You actually limit bullet selection/size going to the wsm though. If you aren't looking to lighten up the gun you can close your eyes and pick from a dozen cals and end up in the same place.

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hog
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Feb-23-07, 
11:11 AM (MST)
3. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I personally think the WSM are just sales pitch due to declining sales in the recent years. They weight reduction is cutting the barrel down and a short action isn't that big advantage. I consider myself a guy who likes the traditional magnum calibers.

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moneyman
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Feb-23-07, 
12:03 PM (MST)
4. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

less recoil
lighter rifle
same performance

If the WSM's had been marketed prior to the long action mag's, the "traditionalist" would be bad mouthing the LA cartridges as a gimmick.

WTH would you buy a .300 WinMag then hack off the barrel?

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YukonDall
(5545 posts)
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Feb-23-07, 
12:14 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-07 AT 12:22 PM (MST)

HOG,...GO TO SHORTMAGS.ORG FOR THE HISTORY/TECHNOLOGY OF THE ROUND. THOUSANDS OF .300WSM SOLD IN 2006, POPULAR ROUND FOR SURE. ITS A GOOD READ. YD.

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BCHunter
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Feb-23-07, 
12:31 PM (MST)
6. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I believe of all the WSM the 300 is here to stay. There is a ton of factory ammo available from all manufactures. From all acounts, a great round.

I bought a 325 WSM for Elk hunting and love the round. This one will not be as popular as the 300 WSM or the 270 WSM (big following), but is as perfect an Elk round as there is out there. I reload so ammo is not a problem.

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schmalts
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Feb-23-07, 
09:31 PM (MST)
8. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

> They weight reduction
>is cutting the barrel down
>and a short action isn't
>that big advantage. .
>
You couldnt be more wrong..
The reduction is from a shorter reciever by way of using a shorter bolt. Your bolt is a huge mass of metal and cutting off an inch on both the bolt and reciever adds up to a big reduction.
The physics of a short mags ballistics is that the powder charge ignition is better because the burning distance from the primer to the bullet is shorter.
I researched the living crap out of these guns and have found that unless you are looking to shave some mass, dont bother with buying a gun that is more expensive to shoot. On another note, some guns like the Tikka T3 use a standard length reciever on both the win and WSM so there was no reduction in weight either. So if you are looking at buying a light rifle, make sure that the manufacturer took advantage of the cartridge by shortening the action.


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Roadtrip
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Feb-23-07, 
01:42 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I had a regular 300 win mag and sold it after buying my 300 wsm. 2 very simple reasons. 1st....the recoil on the WSM was noticably less...felt just like my old .06 In fact I had to use the boss on my Abolt to make it as comfortable to shoot, especially in wierd positions. 2nd...I like the compact and quick action when going for a follow up and how it affects the over all length and weight of my gun. I now ask myself...why would anyone want the longer version? An engineer told me once that the wider design of the powder column meant a more efficient burn and lest percieved recoil as less followed the bullet down the rifle. But...I am no engineer and am not even sure that I am restating his comments right. A guy named Dan around these parts knows a lot about this kind of thing.

Cheers

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" Dean Wormer, Animal House

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HerbD
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Feb-24-07, 
02:09 AM (MST)
9. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

The 300 WSM is a good cartridge though only marginally better than the old .06. However, it does have the advantage of chambering in short action rifles whose advantages are stated above. Also, it doesn't have that useless belt of other mags which should give rise toward better accuracy.

Depending on a short action rifle's weight it is conceivable that it could kick as hard or harder than a 300 Win mag.

As to powder burning efficiency, I doubt that there are many handloaders concerning themselves over burning 10 or 15 grains more or less powder. Instead they are more interested in achieving better accuracy and greater speed. 300 RUM buyers fall into that category.

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Trophymossback
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Feb-24-07, 
05:14 PM (MST)
10. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

After experiencing the 7MM WSM and the 300 WSM and selling both, I believe the only short mags I would own are the wildcat 25 Pronghorn and the 325 WSM. They both demonstrate a clear advantage over comparible cartridges. I have heard good things about both!

TM

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huntindude
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Feb-24-07, 
05:35 PM (MST)
11. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

Slow the 300 Win down a little to the same velocity as a 300 WSM and the recoil will be all but the same. I prefer the 300 Win myself but the 300 WSM is and will be popular for years I bet.

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YukonDall
(5545 posts)
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Feb-24-07, 
07:09 PM (MST)
12. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"


DUDE, THE FEDERAL VELOCITY TABLES (I SHOOT VITAL SHOCK) SHOW THE .300WSM TO BE 262 FPS FASTER THAT THE OLD .300WM AT THE 500 YARD MARK. YOU MEAN SPEED UP THE OLD .300 WM UP A TAD I BELIEVE. IT ALSO SHOWS THE .300 WSM 20 FPS FASTER OUT OF THE MUZZLE USING 180 GR. NOSLERS PARTITIONS. JUST THE FACTS,,,,,,YD.

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Trophymossback
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Feb-24-07, 
07:25 PM (MST)
13. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

The Velocity Charts and Company advertising are often incorrect. Try chronagraphing the velocity of the various calibers and it is a real eye opener.

TM

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huntindude
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Feb-24-07, 
08:57 PM (MST)
14. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

That's a fact.

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YukonDall
(5545 posts)
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Feb-24-07, 
11:15 PM (MST)
15. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"


WE DID, THEY WERE WITH IN 4-12 FPS DEPENDING ON WHOSE GRAPH WE USED. TECHNOLOGY BOYS....DONT BE AFRAID OF IT. JUST THE FACTS, YD.

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huntindude
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Feb-25-07, 
09:28 AM (MST)
16. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

My 300 WSM is about 60 fps slower with the factory loads I've tried. handloading you can get an easy 100 fps more out of the 300 Win, there are gun to gun differences of course. the 300 WBY has the most difference from published to actual velocity of any round I can think of, up to 200 fps slower in some cases.

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redrabbit
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Feb-25-07, 
09:40 AM (MST)
17. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

In addition to what's been posted about the weight savings of an action that is 1/2" shorter, you also get the shorter bolt throw.

Since the WSM cartidge is 1/2" shorter than the WM, the effective barrel length of the WSM is 1/2" longer than the WM as the WSM chamber will be 1/2" shorter. This may give another 15fps and may help give the impression that the WSM is more efficient.

RR

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canhunter
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Feb-25-07, 
01:26 PM (MST)
18. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I recently finished developing and reloading for a friends 300WSM ABolt. It chronographed a minimum of 120fps faster then my 300WM ABolt with 165 and 180gr bullets. The 300WSM velocities are also with a 3" shorter barrel is hard to argue with. People need to really compare rounds with everything affecting the ballistics the same. Maybe this was one of those fluke rifles but I am impressed with the round. Recoil was slightly more in the WSM, but the rifles size, weight, and handling make it hands down a better rifle for my likes. Not selling my WM, but will be getting a WSM this year. Yes the RUM (Have one) is super inefficient, but most including myself are looking for every last FPS so efficiency is never factored in.

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canhunter
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Feb-25-07, 
01:31 PM (MST)
19. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

Factory ammo FPS charts are the epitomy of false advertising. Yukon how is it possible for the same bullet to have better ballistics at 500yds but muzzle velocity is claimed to be less? I could be confused on what you intended to say, but that would be against all known laws of physics.

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YukonDall
(5545 posts)
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Feb-25-07, 
02:09 PM (MST)
20. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"


THE FEDERAL PEOPLE I BELIEVE DO HAVE A GOOD IDEA ON THE VELOCITIES OF THEIR PRODUCTS, THEY ARE ON THE HIGH TECH END OF THINGS. YES, I DO THINK YOU MISSED SOMETHING ...WERE NOT ON THE SAME COMPARISION PAGE. TALKING ABOUT BALLISTICS IS FUTILE, I'LL STICK TO THE CHARTS. TAKE ER EASY,..YD.

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Trophymossback
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Feb-25-07, 
02:18 PM (MST)
21. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

>
> THE FEDERAL
>PEOPLE I BELIEVE DO HAVE
>A GOOD IDEA ON THE
>VELOCITIES OF THEIR PRODUCTS, THEY
>ARE ON THE HIGH TECH
>END OF THINGS.
>YES, I DO THINK
>YOU MISSED SOMETHING ...WERE NOT
>ON THE SAME COMPARISION PAGE.
> TALKING ABOUT BALLISTICS
>IS FUTILE, I'LL STICK TO
>THE CHARTS.
>TAKE ER EASY,..YD.

I think I will stick to the chronagraph for each rifle will be different. The book is only a guideline, many times an inaccurate one.

TM

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257Tony
(3630 posts)
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Feb-25-07, 
04:40 PM (MST)
22. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

Let me throw in my 2 cents.... And that right there is why I believe you should buy that particular caliber over the other useless caliber. http://imageshack.us> http://imageshack.us>


Somebody didn't like bouncing betty http://imageshack.us>

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Pre64
(1261 posts)
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Feb-26-07, 
09:02 PM (MST)
23. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I'd rather hunt with a heavier rifle. A little more weight out in front steadies the rifle, especially with awkward shots. Nobody ever didn't make it up a mountain because thier rifle was 6oz. too heavy.

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2pointer
(326 posts)
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Feb-27-07, 
03:06 PM (MST)
24. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I have owned a 300 WSM for about three or 4 years. I had to order it when they first came out. I had a hard time finding a load that I liked out of it. The factory ammo is fairly accurate but I like to reload and will not pay someone to do it for me. I finally found a load that is very fast and accurate. I have killed two elk with it and love it. It carries a bunch of power.

Are there other guns out there that will kill an elk? Of course there are. But that does not take away from the 300 WSM. I have put all my loads thru a chronograph. I will bring my book to work with me tomorrow and post the speeds and bullets that I have shot. Either way, I love my gun and plan on shooting more animals with it. I also plan to keep adding to my gun collection because... Oh just because I can.

2Pointer

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SLIVER
(1314 posts)
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Feb-28-07, 
00:47 AM (MST)
25. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

2 POINTER, Could you also post the load spec's that you are shooting. I am just starting to reload and need a starting point. Thanks

}}-SLIVER-->

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2pointer
(326 posts)
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Feb-28-07, 
12:39 PM (MST)
26. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

Sliver,

Yes I will, but you will have to wait until tomorrow. I left my recipe book at home. I will post the recipe and speeds tomorrow.

2pointer

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Jake_Sorensen
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Feb-28-07, 
02:13 PM (MST)
27. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I have shot a 300 win for years and love my ruger, but recently I decided I wanted a new gun, my Ruger is the old stainless with the "skeleton" stock and I decided I wanted a 300 with a wood stock, but I didn't want to get rid of what was really my first very own rifle so I decided rather than get another 300 win and have 2 that I would try out the 300 wsm, so I got it in the Browning A-bolt I love how much lighter it is then my 300 win, .338 and even my .270 BLR, it makes me look more forward to packing a gun around this up coming season, I hate factory loads but I've been using them to break the barrell in and to get shells to reload so I don't want to say a whole lot about grouping ect., but one of the things I got it for was the "reduced felt recoil" for me the kick is worse then my .300 and my .338, so I don't know if it is just me or if it is a myth but as far as comfortable shooting it is one of the least that I have.

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canhunter
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Mar-01-07, 
03:46 PM (MST)
28. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

Newtons law has not changed. If you have a certain weight bullet travelling at a certain FPS the recoil is the same. Now factor in a lighter or heavier rifle, and that is what will affect the felt recoil. Yes excluding any other recoil reducer. How many rifles would they sell if potential new customers were told it would recoil like a standard magnum. Many non-magnum rifle owners bought a SM due to the advertising hype. Not bashing anyone but it really is pretty simple to understand. Thank goodness we have companies making new products so they can stay in business(even if they are actually redundant).

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Pre64
(1261 posts)
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Mar-01-07, 
04:11 PM (MST)
29. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I've wondered the same thing. "For any action there is an equall and opposite....etc..." All things being equall, it would seem that any difference in recoil would be a factor of rifle weight and design. Further, where did the term "felt recoil" come from? Bet it was a salesman.

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manny15
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Mar-01-07, 
08:25 PM (MST)
30. "RE: Why a 300 WSM over the conventional 300 win mag or weatherby?"

I appreciate the info I just bought a Rem 700 SS 300WSM I'm thinkin of useing hornady's interbond factory loads..?

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