Mexico & USFWS

C

Couesnut

Guest
I've heard there was a bunch of hunters cited by the USFWS, bringing what they beleived were legally harvested deer into the United States from Mexico the last few weeks. Does anyone know anything about this or had the experience themselves? Sounds to me like Mexico needs to get their ##### together or the demand for hunts down south will drop way off.
 
I think it depends on the outfitter. The one I used had the paper work wired. It only took minutes, in and out.
 
It all boils down to having the correct and legal paperwork. If the outfitter has done his or her job correctly and everything is above board and legal, then there is absolutly no problem with crossing the border with your trophys.

Kirk Kelso
 
Kirk said it best, if everything is in order then you will have no problems whatsoever.
Drum
 
To be legitimate an adhesive tag will be attached to the horns, simular to an all day ski pass that is 1" wide x 5" long, containing pertinent info. such as ranch hunted, year taken ect.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-04 AT 07:35PM (MST)[p]I have only dealt with Mexican tags once but they were much bigger than 1"X5". They did have an adhesive backing so that they could wrap a main beam and then stick well to itself. It may change from one year to the next. eg New Mexico changes the color of their landowner tags from year to year.
Josh
 
B_F_E,

You are correct in as much as you need an adhesive tag issued by the Mexican Government, but the paperwork required is much more in depth than this. You must also have a valid Hunt Contract with a Mexican Outfitter that is filled out with the corresponding ranch that matches the tag. This contract is also your Mexican license. You must also have a stamped and payed for exportation form that proves you have payed the taffifs associated with exporting your trophy. Once you have all these items, you can legally import your trophy. Without any of these, you are violating US law by bringing them into the country.

KK
 
I had all my paperwork in order. I got hassled a little bit because I had the meat with me but no rack. I left the rack with a friend to drive back to the states because I didn't trust the baggage monkeys. It took some explaining but not a real big deal.
 
BigPig,

You are very fortunate that you got both the meat and horns in seperatly. Obviously, the tag was on one or the other and not both, so you are most fortunate that one or the other was not confiscated. If you are fortunate enough to go hunting in Mexico again, you might want to bring both across at the same time, so you won't have a problem. Nine times out of ten you will.

Kirk Kelso
 
Kirk: I think couesnut is bringing up something that is touching the ambiguity of the Lacy act. I think something is happening with the USFW people and customs people that is at the root of this, they have taken horns from people that are fresh kills tagged correctly and issuing tickets. I know Dave knows the process and yet a few people he knows from a couple weeks ago are getting the short end of the stick. I know all of this is vague but something a bit strange is going on, not the routine stuff. anyone here of others being cited by USFW under the lacy act and the paperwork is as it had been in years past?????? Allen Taylor......
 
Allen,

If I were to speculate on what has happened here, I would bet money on the fact that the exportation permits required by SEMARNAP to export the trophys out of the country were not aquired by the Mexican Outfitter. Just because it is a fresh kill and tagged correctly, doesn't mean that the Mexican contract and license are correct or that the importation permits were issued by SEMARNAP. If the trophy comes into the US without this, as required by Mexican law, then it becomes a Lacey Act case. I have contacts I work with with the USFWS that may explain to me what has happened, but I bet I'm right with my assessment.

KK
 
I believe what has happened is this. Exportation permits where isssued to the Outfitter but a copy of the contract was not given to the hunters when they left Mexico. When they arrived in the US the antlers were tagged and signed but they had no contract (copy) with them. The contract existed but was not in the hunters possession.
 
Kirk,
I heard that some of your hunters got cited as well. Is this true?? You seem to know all the details.
It apears things are different this year. The way hunters have been returning home has'nt change in 15 years.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-04 AT 08:07AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-04 AT 08:03?AM (MST)

Dave,

I knew this would be the next part of this discussion!!!!!

I don't know where you heard your information, nor does it matter, but it doesn't suprise me a bit that my name would be associated with this, as I send more hunters back and forth across the border than most. I can assure you that not (one) single client of Pusch Ridge Outfitters was or has ever been cited or had any trophy confiscated. No Pusch Ridge Outfitter clients crossed the border with any paperwork that was not in order. Our clients are paperworked to death on their reenty into the US and their paperwork is correct. This is one thing that I have demanded for years. I don't leave this up to anyone but myself. I see what happens down there every year with paperwork and tags, and I am not suprised in the least that this has happened. It was only a matter of time. It shouldn't suprise you, but maybe you aren't aware of the size of our Mexico operation, and that I might know something about what is required and what isn't required.

You say people have been coming back from there for 15 years with no problems, which may be true, and yes things are completely different now than then, but what I see with both SEMARNAP and USFWS is that they are abiding by the rules and regulations this year as never before. Our importation laws have changed very little in the last few years, but Mexico's laws change every year. That's why it is so critically important that who ever you hunt down there with is on top of the law, and for that matter it wouldn't hurt any hunter to do his or her research to know something about it themselves. It's your ass, not the Outfitters if something goes awry.

Cal,

I would expect that your line of thinking could be correct. It would be an awfully stupid mistake by the Outfitter to withhold the contract from his clients who where leaving the country with their trophys, but I've seen other things down there that would be just as odd. If your thinking is correct, I don't understand why those contracts could not be sent to the States to clear up the mess.

Kirk Kelso
 
I personally did not here any violations regarding Kirk Kelso or Pusch Ridge. Again, I dont want this to get into a public scourge of any particular outfitter, just wondering if anyone has a friend or aquaintance that was ticketed when in all appearances their paperwork was in order? There are alot of great outfitters that have zero problems, I just heard through the grapevine that this year there seemed to be alot of problems......Hopefully all works out, and everyone who goes down again this year heeds the advice of making sure you have the right paperwork........... Allen Taylor......
 
All I can say is if you end up in jail, pray it's on this side of the border.

JB
 
Kirk,
As far as I know I had all the paperwork needed. My outfitter (who is also a close friend of my buddy that drove the antlers back to the states knew that I would be taking the meat and my friend would be taking the antlers separatly. He gave me a stack of papers that I presented to the Customs and agriculture officers once I landed in the U.S. Once I explained my situation and showed him my paperwork, he sent me on my way with no problems. I had the utmost confidence in my outfitter(you would probably know who he is) and as far as I know all the paperwork was complete. I may have gotten lucky, but all did seem in order. You are right though, you definitely need to go with a good reputable outfitter down there to work throuh the process. I sure hope the guys who got their racks taken get everything resolved. I would hate to go on a dream hunt only to have the trophy confiscated.
 
BigPig,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your last post on this subject, but I just returned from Mexico where we finished our last Sheep hunt yesterday.

In regard to your situation, If you are only talking to a Customs or Agriculture agent, then most often, you won't have a big problem as they are not usually up on the Mexico and USFWS laws regarding importation of hunting trophies. They most generally will check the tag and check the cape for ticks and let you pass. If they should call in the USFWS agent then you may have a problem. It is illegal to import someone elses trophy into the US without the proper permits and licenses. Hopefully this won't be a problem, and maybe you have it taken care of by now, but if not, I may be able to help you with getting it across legally, as I hold the required licenses and permits.

Kirk Kelso
 
Kirk, what can you tell me about bringing sheds across the border? Can you do it legally or is it not even worth trying? I know people have done it as I have seen outfitters up here with Mexico sheds but I don't know if they snuck them across or what. Please email me at [email protected]

David Pereda
 
David,

I'll post the answer to your question here, as it may be helpful to anyone else who needs to know.

It is illegal to import any deer sheds from Mexico unless the following things are done.

(1) The person importing them has a valid USFWS Import/Export license and Port Exception permits.

(2) The person exporting them has the proper licenses from SEMARNAP (Mexico Game and Fish) to export.

The only other way around this is to use a valid hunting tag with a valid hunting contract. Most people however would not want to waste their tag on a shed.

If anyone has shed horns from Mexico and claims this, and have not done the things listed above, then they are in violation of US and Mexican law and they have committed a felony under the Lacey Act! Bad news, but those are the facts. Serious stuff!!!!

Hopefully this answers your question.

KK
 

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