Utah Loophole....

Packout · Feb 9, 2004

I was just wondering how many of the hunters in Utah know about a loophole being used by many that draw tags on limited entry units.

Many of the top Bonus Point holders in Utah's draw system turn their tags back in to the DWR after they draw, but before the hunts. These guys go out and scout the area all summer and early Fall, but if they don't find what they want they simply turn in their tag before the hunt and thus get their bonus points reinstated.

These guys are guaranteed to draw every year with their high bonus points. The guys on bonus point levels below them are not moving up because the points were reinstated to the guy who turns his tag back in. Just seems a little unfair to the rest who are waiting to draw the tags.

Justice · Feb 9, 2004

I dont think you quite get how the bonus point system works here in utah.

When you put in it gives you a number to be put into a draw, and every bonus point gives you an extra number to be put into that draw. so if you have 5 bonus points you have 5 names/numbers in the draw for that particular hunt.

am I right MM?

fin little · Feb 9, 2004

50% of the tags go to the people with the most bonus points. I heard about people doing this last year. I think when you turn the tag back you get your bonus points back plus the one you would have earned the year you drew. The down side is you forfeit the price of the tag. As far as people not moving up in the draw, I think the UDWR gives the tag to the next highest applicant who didnt draw. Thats if that person wants it.

txhunter58 · Feb 9, 2004

How could they give the tag to the next applicant who didn't draw if the guy turns the tag back in the day before the season opens. Not enough time to make plans.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

30inchbucks · Feb 9, 2004

Changes need to be made to a fouled up system. Fin little is right 50% of the tags go to the applicants with the most bonus points and if you don't like the area after scouting you can turn the tag back in and get your points back. Packout great point that needs to be addressed. That should not be going on. Points should not be given back unless it is a very good reason like medical issues, military duty, or something like that.

ElmerFudd · Feb 9, 2004

Still, they will lose ground doing this, as points going in to the draw are reinstated. They do not get the point for that year.

bobcatbess · Feb 9, 2004

packout

JUST BECAUSE A GUY/GAL HAS MAX POINTS DOESN'T GUARANTEE THEM TO DRAW!!!

JUST GOES TO SHOW THE DWR WILL TAKE YOUR MONEY IF YOU'RE DUMB ENOUGH TO TURN THAT PAUNSAGANT TAG IN!!!

REMEMBER:THEY HAVE THEIR HAND OUT AT ALL TIMES,WAITING FOR YOU TO FILL IT!!!

IF I EVER GET THE TAG,I WILL TAKE MY CHANCES,I WON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO TURN IT IN AND TRY AND DRAW IT THE SECOND TIME!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF SOMEBODY WOULD PLEASE TURN THEIR L.E. ELK TAG IN,I'M THE NEXT ONE IN LINE!!!

Packout · Feb 10, 2004

I was talking about the 50% of tags that go to the top bonus point holders. If the person turns the tag back in they get their previous points reinstated plus they get another point for that year.

Bobcat- You are right that a max point doesn't guarantee you a tag for all species, but for many units and species it does garauntee a tag. When the tag is turned in the next person in line from the everybody draw gets the tag. Could be someone with no points.

It just seems wrong that the guys with the highest points can draw every year and scout the area all summer, then turn in the tag 2 or 3 days before the opening of the season. I do agree that certain medical issues or military duties are a just cause for reinstating bonus points. I could see the tag being turned in and the tag holder having previous points reinstated, but not get a point for that year.

On a side note, if a person draws a CWMU tag and turns it in the CWMU then is given the tag to distribute. It does not go to the next guy in line. Think if a CWMU had a hunter who wanted to pay lots of cash to hunt. The public tag holder could turn in the tag and the CWMU could sell it, then give the tag holder some cash and the guy could draw the same tag the next year.

cb · Feb 10, 2004

Packout,

Your absolutely wrong about the CWMU tag. I had a guy draw an elk tag last year and forfeited the tag. The next guy in line got the tag. I have known others that have been in the same situation. CWMU tags are the same as LE.

Packout · Feb 10, 2004

CB,

You are absolutely right on this issue. My apologies. I was reading in the proc on page 16 - c5 which states "Any private CWMU permit surrendered to the Division will be reallocated by the landowner through a voucher, issued to the landowner..." I misread this thinking it applied to the public tag, but now I realize it applies to the private tags. Sorry for the misinformation. I guess my cougar encounters over the weekend have my credability on the edge.

I found out about this exchange problem by asking a DWR employee why there is such a descrepancy between current bonus point holders when compared to last years successfull applicants.