Southeast Idaho Units

3

300Winnie

Guest
The draws are out on the non-resident allocation for southeast Idaho. The amount of tags left over is a real indicator of how the F&G has managed the deer in Idaho over the past decade. I know...winters have been tough, but that doesn't account for it in my book. Just across Star Valley in Wyoming the winters are just as tough if not tougher and the odds on drawing a region tag there are about 33%. Anyone hunt the southeast region of Idaho the last couple of years (units 75,76,77 and 78)? What were your impressions?

I think it is ironic that several years ago those tags went on a first come first serve basis...usually selling out within hours. Now they have a draw and roughly 30% are left over.

Just my ramblings,

300Winnie
 
I hunted it last year, and it was terrible. I scouted a bunch, and the deer numbers were way low. I did see a very nice buck, but nowhere to be found during the hunt. I hunted 3 days, I saw a total of 2 bucks, both small, and 8 does and fawns. I couldn't believe how bad it was, and then don't get me started on all the 4-wheeler and motorcycle track I came across in the "roadless areas".
 
I HAVE HUNTED SE IDAHO FOR 17 STRAGIHT YEARS IT DEFINITLY HAS TOOK A TURN FOR THE WORST,ILLEGAL ATV USE IS RAMPANT IN MANY PARTS OF SE IDAHO.

I HAVE HARVESTED SOME VERY NICE BUCKS IN MY TIME SPENT THERE,MOSTLY GOING WHERE THE ATVS CAN NOT ACCESS,AND MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT WILLING TO GO. IT CAN STILL PRODUCE A NICE BUCK IF YOU HUNT THE RIGHT SPOTS.
 
I HAVE HUNTED SE IDAHO FOR 17 STRAGIHT YEARS IT DEFINITLY HAS TOOK A TURN FOR THE WORST,ILLEGAL ATV USE IS RAMPANT IN MANY PARTS OF SE IDAHO.

I HAVE HARVESTED SOME VERY NICE BUCKS IN MY TIME SPENT THERE,MOSTLY GOING WHERE THE ATVS CAN NOT ACCESS,AND MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT WILLING TO GO. IT CAN STILL PRODUCE A NICE BUCK IF YOU HUNT THE RIGHT SPOTS.
 
300Winnie,

Your right, the mule deer hunting in all of the units in SE Idaho is even worse than the hunting in Utah. Everyone should go somewhere else to hunt.


Joking aside, the 2002 deer season in SE Idaho wasn?t very good (in 2002 the number of deer harvest was only 50% of the 2001 harvest). When the draw system for the SE Idaho tag started in 2003 many of the regulars weren't as interested because of the poor hunting in 2002. The F&G hasn't given out the 2003 harvest data yet but from what I saw while hunting/scouting and the F&G has said the 2003 season was only slightly better than the 2002 season. With the current winter conditions the 2004 season doesn't look to be any better.


Most hunters blame game departments before they know all of the facts. Both Wyoming's region G and Idaho's SE tag units are very similar in size and have about the same number of hunters (in 2002 there were 7,628 hunters in region G and 7,171 hunters in Idaho?s units 75, 76, 77 & 78 during the rifle hunt). The length of the season in region G is more liberal. The Idaho F&G has done some good things like reducing the rifle season in units 75, 76, 77 & 78 from 26 days in 2002 to 14 days in 2003. They should have cut the season one year sooner because they knew that there was a high mortality during the winter of 2001/2002 (95% of the fawns the F&G collard died during the winter of 2001/2002). With the help of organizations like the MDF the F&G has planted a lot of bitterbrush on winter range in recent years.

I'll agree that motorized access is generally better and more abused in SE Idaho than region G. In 2003 the F&G included a great new rule that restricted the use of motorized vehicles by hunters during some hunts. The rifle season in units 75, 76, 77 & 78 weren't affected by the new rule, but the late muzz hunt 75* (units 75, 77 & 78) was. From what I have seen and heard the F&G did a good job of patrolling the areas with the new motorized vehicle restrictions during the 2003 season.

The Idaho F&G also only allows only a handful of lions to be harvested in this area. I'm not sure what the lion numbers are in region G but I doubt that is a major reason region G has had better muley hunting. Unfortunately 10 years from now there will likely be a healthy population of wolves in both areas.

In my opinion the drought is the main reason deer hunting in SE Idaho isn't as good as region G. If you look at the link below you can see that SE Idaho is in a D3 and D4 drought and region G Wyoming is only in a D2 drought. This last fall all of what the F&G call the SE region was in a D4 drought while almost all of region G was in a D2 drought.
http://www.drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html

I could be wrong but I believe that SE Idaho has had worse winterkills in recent years as well. If you compare the harvest data for 2001 and 2002 you can see the impact the 2001/2002 winter had on the two areas.
The number of deer harvest in the SE Idaho units in 2002 was only 50% of the 2001 seasons harvest. In Wyoming?s region G the harvest in 2002 was 80% of the 2001 seasons harvest.

I still see a handful of big bucks every summer/fall in the Southeast Region but there aren't as many of them as there were a few years ago. If we get out of this drought and not too many deer are killed by hard winters there will once again be excellent mule deer hunting in SE Idaho.

Here's a link to info about left over nonresident tags in SE Idaho. http://www2.state.id.us/fishgame/news/NewsReleases/view.cfm?NewsID=1911
 
Last year I hunted both SE ID and Region G WY. I have to say that I saw 10 times the number of hunters in ID as I saw in WY. The ATV's were everywhere. I stopped and talked to a couple guys riding theirs as I walked a road back to my truck. They had a full size ice chest strapped to the front rack. It was full of Budweiser and they were both tanked! They said they had been hunting there for years and bragged about all the big bucks they've killed there.

I saw about 15 deer a day (over 3 days) and 2 decent bucks. The stalks were blown by other hunters. One on an ATV and the other by some guy throwing lead all the way across the canyon at a 2-point. He never saw the 25" about 400 yards further up the canyon out feeding.

I'll go back to both if possible but I gotta try to find somewhere not as crowded in ID. WY was pretty good. Did not see alot of deer but not the crowds where we were.

Mike Henne
 
I've hunted both units, and the difference is roadless areas. YOur not going to take your ice cooler of beer on your atv to the top of G in Wy. Idaho needs to continue regulating their atv laws in the area, and thats a start in the right direction. Russ
 
Even in Idaho's best units, IDF&G manages for maximum hunter participation not trophy quality. Sure, there are good bucks around, but overall the buck numbers and quality are nothing that they could be. F&G is so scared of the growing non-hunting population and the bad press they could create if even a slight die-off occurred. I think they figure let's offer the most tags possible to try to keep revenue up, while keeping herd numbers below the carrying capacity. Now that tags are going un-sold, at least in the short term everybody looses.
 
"Even in Idaho's best units, IDF&G manages for maximum hunter participation not trophy quality."

I'm actually scheduling a Meeting with some of my Directors with Fish and Game in the upcoming months. DHI is putting together directors that are solely responsible in contacting Fish/Game and talking about the Situation and some of the Concerns you've brought up. I'll be part of that and will Drill some serious questions for my personal knowlege aswell. Hopefully we can be a Voice in the future and not just a bunch of guys on the Net Crying about stuff ;)

Not knowing a lot of the Behind the doors info of IF&G I can't say much about it now but there is Still Plenty of areas that a guy can get some good bucks in the general areas, let alone the SW draw units with the general 2 point rule and the Bennet Mnt draw area and such. I'm not one to disagree without some Facts but that statement above just isn't 100% right.

I went down to SE Idaho (Palisades area) to help a Friend pull out a Nice Moose he got. I seen that they closed some Old stomping grounds to 4-wheelers. I was amaised but glad they did (Although I had used them when they were open). Pre season we went up to scout the area and just of the Dirt road saw 1 herd broken in 3 parts. The one heard had 28 spikes in it. The other herd had 40-50 cows and calfs and there was a couple toads in the trees Screaming to round up the gang when we came around the corner on our bikes. SWe saw alot of other game but nothing herded up like that.

I know the topic is on Deer, but do you think that the Elk are down too ? Or just the Mulies ? I do know the Moose #'s are up for sure :)



  • [*] -Moosie
~~If you're going to walk on thin ice, Ya might as Well DANCE !!
WALK the TALK, Or shut the HECK UP !!
 
Moosie,
Would you let us know how the meetings go. I am interested to hear how DHI's ideas are recieved by F&G. I am not a member but I know they have some pull in regards to animal management in this state. Good luck and thanks.
 
Fairchase, I will note how it goes. I looked at your Profile and It said you're an Idahoin, Where in the State are you at ? Just wondering if you're close to the Bosie area ? If you don't want to post it drop me an email.


  • [*] -Moosie
~~If you're going to walk on thin ice, Ya might as Well DANCE !!
WALK the TALK, Or shut the HECK UP !!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-04 AT 00:00AM (MST)[p]Moosie,
The elk numbers are increasing in SE Idaho. The deer numbers were close to recovered in the fall of 2001 until the 2001/2002 winter fixed that.

Do you think an internet petition or mailing letters to certain F&G guys would help? We should start a petition and get some address to write to. If half or even 10% of the guys that visit these forums wrote a letter or two and signed a petition we should be able to get the F&G?s attention.
One thing that I would really like to see is the ATV restrictions for hunters spread to other units.
 
I have hunted this S.E. Idaho unit for 7 years now. I have seen
some great bucks. I think it is way over hunted. Like alot of these guys have said it is hard to get away form people. The area that I hunted no one conformed to the atv restriction. It was frustrating to hike my guts out in the snow, to find someone got their atv into the same area. I saw alot of deer. but the buck to doe ratio is very poor. The deer we saw were rutting big time and we still saw lots of does without bucks! Not even a forkie hanging around. The other thing about this area is there is so much hunting pressure from sept. until the end of the year. These deer are so spooky it makes it difficult to get on them. not just deer hunts but elk hunts as well. And I have seen guys hunting cats in the area as well.
Then they made the muzzleloader hunt a draw but kept the rifle tag numbers the same?? I don't understand why Idfg. issues so many permits. With the heavy snow we saw last year I think we got a pretty good idea of what the deer numbers are like. We saw alot of deer. The biggest number that I have seen in the 7 years that I have hunted it but poor ratio's.
 
BRIANID, Internet ? No, I think we need to have "real people". I've talked to the Outfitters Association and with F&G in the past and they don't think much about the net. Any Back East Joe can make a comment on western tactics and not know. to be honest, I wonder if they even listen to local "REAL" people.

Like I said, I don't have all the Info or knowlege to Post Stats and stuff (Unless I cut/paste *SMILE*) but I'll be learning alot more hopefully in the coming months and getting to know more of Who's Who in Whoville' :)

Thanx for the Info on the Elk too.....


  • [*] -Moosie
~~If you're going to walk on thin ice, Ya might as Well DANCE !!
WALK the TALK, Or shut the HECK UP !!
 
My only experience was last year, and I too was dissappointed. I hunted hard (on foot) for six days, and only saw a handfull of deer to include two small bucks. I saw some nice elk and moose as well. The area had numerous hunters on ATV, horseback, and "road crusiers". It appears that Idaho F&G officials allowed to many hunters for the season. I would only return for a controlled hunt
 
The only time that I see very many hunters in SE Idaho is on the opener and sometimes on weekends. During the six or so days I hunted the general rifle season in 2003 I never saw another hunter (besides guys I hunt with) more than a few hundred yards from a road. Having the new ATV restriction apply to every unit in SE Idaho would do a lot of good for buck/doe ratios in my opinion.
 
I think it will take some time for the ATV restrictions to take effect. I HOPE that eventually people will follow the restrictions.

I am a lifelong resident of SE Idaho. I am not old enough to remember the "good old days" (shot my first 4 point in 1985) but let me tell you, even in the late 80's and early 90's the hunting was tremendous. I remember seeing more 4 pts in one day then in a whole season now.

I too hunted the unit 75 muzzle loader "rut" hunt in 2003. Very disappointing. Spent tons of time behind the scope, had access to areas behind private lands (read..no other hunters) and still only glassed up dinks. Now, I know there are still some good bucks, but I can't agree more with the poor ratios comment earlier. What I did see was huge amounts of elk. We were into elk every day.

You can't blame everything on the IDFG. We have had severe droughts, and as mentioned a bad 01 winter which killed lots of deer (snow froze over, deer couldn't get to the feed, but not enough snow to break the drought). There is also habitat issues...i.e. winter range being developed into "ranchettes".

My question is, in the face of these poor herd conditions, why does the IDFG allow over the counter tag sales? Why do they allow both residents and non-residents to buy multiple deer tags? And why, with the exploding elk populations in most of the state has the IDFG broken the state into "zones" with "A & B" tags which drastically limit where, how and for what type of elk (spike/cow/any antlered)you can hunt? But yet a general season deer tag will basically allow you to hunt any area (excepting the Clearwater region)including multiple opening days?

And why does every other western state except Idaho require that non-residents draw for their tags? I would love to buy a deer tag for Wyoming over the counter, but I suspect the quality hunting I have enjoyed over there would soon end with the added pressure.

In my opinion, (and several hunting partners) the state should go to 100% controlled hunts for mule deer. I know thats not a popular opinion, but I for one would rather hunt every other year or every third year and have a more "quality experience". I don't mean shoot a trophy buck every year, I mean hunting without getting run over by other people, seeing game that hasn't been hunted from August 30 through November 30. I am talking a quality experience. As far as I know, Idaho is the only state where non-residents can buy over the counter tags, and ID, Wy and MT are the only muley states where residents can buy muley tags over the counter. I haven't hunted MT but Wy has idaho beat for deer quality (and quanity) hands down. I think it has something to do with limited resident population, very difficult terrain in Western Wyoming and huge private holdings in the rest of the state...somewhat different from Idaho (generally speaking).

Maybe someone from this site (like Moosie) should become president of Deer Hunters of Idaho or something like that and light some fires?
 
I have hunted unit 76 for the last 28 years, and have taken many nice bucks,I agree that the deer herd is not what they used to be,but if a guy was to get away from the roads,there is still good quality deer hunting, where we go though,we dont have problems with 4-wheelers, basically because it is steep and rocky, last year in 3 days we saw over 30 bucks, with several being over 30", and only saw 0ne hunter in the same 3 days, as far as elk,the unit is being over run with them, we are seeing elk in places they never excisted 10 years ago,we are seeing alot of does and the med-larger bucks, but the small bucks are what we have noticed missing, i am assuming they are winter kill, but i like the cutback in the season length,and would like to see the hunt controlled more, scott
 
Can anybody give me some ideas as to where some of the more remote hard to access with ATV areas are in the SE area? I like to backpack and want to find some places to watch wildlife. I would like to draw a controled elk tag and take out of the those pesky 6 by 6 bulls that are competing with the mule deer, but I would like to do some camping/scouting in the area this summer and fall regardless of whether I ever draw. Thanks.

Dax
 
most anything south of crow creek- wells canyon road is road restricted, along with north of tincup cr., get away from the roads you should do just fine, 4-wheeler use is resticted,and parts you could not use one, if you wanted to, i wont tell much more than that, do a little homework and you could figure out a good spot, scott
 

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