Hunting fool? Just made things tougher

S

sagehnter

Guest
Any one else have the problem with their favorite unit all of a sudden apearing in Garth's top ten picks and then hundreds of people apply and make the odds almost impossible! I know it's a free country but if you had a subscription I'd be pissed cuz before you even got a copy your odds of drawing any of their tops zones is almost nill cuz you know every one that gets that magazine is taking that as gospel and applying for those same zones. I don't suscribe but have seen the magazine and I'm pretty sure that it's not helping me draw the tag I want.
 
Ya know I use to feel the same way as you. Very valid points ya make too.

Then I saw that with so many application services and all the data on websites that just about any and all of use can find the best odds units.

HuntinFool just gives a guy a quick-reference with overall odds and units of best results.

I just go for the unit I want to hunt and if I draw so be it if not so be it...

Robb
 
This is the information age...not much you can do about that. I use the Huntin' Fool info to see where everyone will apply and pick a unit that is slightly less desirable if I want a tag.
 
Hey PD or Warren or anyone else, you guys have a current subscription? I'd like to ask you off the board if my Colorado unit hopefully didn't make the list.
 
Good Question really. I had a couple of guys ask me "why did you put in for that tag"...when I called and asked about access since my unit is mostly private...they seemed surprised. I have to admit...hunting fool gave good reviews on the unit and the odds were around 2% for non res to begin with..can't see how they can get much worse!

Cheers, Roadtrip.

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" Dean Wormer, Animal House
 
I have been a member of Huntin Fool since it started and mosttimes they get it right and sometimes they dont. I live Colorado and have hunted in NM the last 3 years. In their NM edition this year they really created a mess in a couple of the top units because they did not include the second choice in the draw statistics. I went so far as to get all the info from the game and fish and do my own research. All they did was make it appear that an out of state hunter with a guide had over a 50% chance of drawing a unit that in reality is on about a 12 % chance. Guess my odds of drawing this unit went south in a hurry. I called them and they basically said they were right, but could have--maybe should have included the second choice.
DUH Oh well guess my chances of every drawing a tag in that unit are now way worse than they were before the Huntin FOOL forgot one small part of the puzzle.
 
Use it for states I'm not familiar with in the past and stayed away from their recommendations in states I know well. Nothing will ever be better then your own research but it's a shortcut. I have been contacted by at least 20 people in the last two years asking about units I've hunted before. They got my name from HuntinFool. Always honest since most are units I won't draw again.
 
I love/hate hunting fool, favorite mag in the world but it hurts odds BAD.

Way to many guys plugging, apply apply apply, someone has to draw! Like MT sheep, to guys who drew it seems easy, but to the other 1,500 NR who do NOT draw, for every one who does, it is not so easy!

All apps services and amgs dramatically slant odds to encourage you to use their services, if they told the truth less would waste the $$$$.

HF for CO NR goat & sheep lists draw odds based SOLEY on NR apps with 3 points (thus guys in the draw for real for the 1st time) they ignores guys with weighted points (they can have up to 5) therefore the true odds are about 5 times worse! This severly slants the odds. Everyone sees 8:1 mnt goat odds and 20:1 sheep odds, does not seem so bad, when really the odds are far worse. I just want them to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I try like heck to avoid their top picks, sometimes it is hard.
 
I got a call and I may be wrong in my above statement, I am going to do some checking and get back, if I am wrong, or right, I will post whichever way, in no way do I want to put incorrect info out there. Also I do like HF, like I said it is my favorite mag.
 
I think some of us have bad luck no matter what, at drawing tags..I have been putting in for NM Gila-archery elk for the last 5 years, with no luck! I don't know the honey holes in those easy to draw units..I will say the HF atleast has pointed me in the right direction, but along with 3000 other hunters! I would have drew a tag by now in a lessor area. I am to the point now that I am going hunting even if I have to buy a tag this year!
 
I am a HF subscriber, and I agree with several of the.
above comments about the information age, etc. If HF was not out there, it wouldn't make that much difference, because those of us with lots of points, or burning desires to hunt, are going to do our research and come up with the same conclusions as they do. The bottom line is, there are very few "sleeper" units out there that a thousand other guys don't already know about anyway. Those who don't give a rip arn't going to pay $100 to HF to get there info either.
I hate it when they list my favorite unit too, but it doesn't mean that my odds are going to get much better if they don't list it. In my mind, sites like this one are just as damaging when it comes to the odds game. But we all love to hunt so we just have to toss our ticket in the hat and hope it gets drawn.
 
I noticed a few areas that I've hunted in the past too. One of them really cracks me up as a top choice as I know the unit really good and sure wouldn't put it as a "top choice..."

I think to certain extent they need to keep things somewhat fresh by adding new areas every now and then-even if they aren't the best areas.

I think that's why they've got some new areas. After 5 or so years of the same top areas it's gotta be changed up every now and then.
 
I don't understand why a select few of the so called 'Odds Guru's' do not start up their own publication with all these so called 'True Odds' and then we as the consumer could subscribe to theirs or to HuntinFool.

What kind of tags do you Odds Guru's draw every year? Alot or a few or none?

HF puts in the issue on each state that it is over all odds... how much more honest and up front can they be?

Robb
 
It turns out I have been misstating draw odds (in CO for mnt goat and sheep) and falsy accusing others of incorrect draw odds. I plan to do what I can do undo my inaccurate statements. Somewhere along the lines I messed up a couple years ago and never rechecked.

DonV
 
Robb, I am not sure which post or posts you are referring too, but I can tell you in the case I was referring too they were dead wrong by not including the second choice apps as there was more than one tag drawn out of that pool last year. My point is if they are going to publish the odds they need to make damn sure they get it right. As I said, I have been a member since the begining and read and use their information every year.

Mark in Colorado
 
Mark, if you notice they always explain how they calculated odds, and they did what they explained, I agree they should count all 3 choices, but they do not. In the past I had hammered them on what I thought was an error in posting CO NR sheep/mnt goat odds, turns out I was wrong. That is what most of this is about, I still have to speak with them but I feel I owe them an apology for my errors.
 
Don, I agree 100% that they explained how they calculated the odds, however in this unit there were 2nd and 3rd choice draws. Obviously, I dont have the time or the desire to do what they do, and I will say it again, they do a fine job and I use the information they publish. It just seems to me that a little more thought could have gone into the figures to make a more fair representation of actual odds in this unit. Maybe I am dense, but if one person in any unit draws a tag as a second or third choice they should be included.

Mark
 
The samething happened to us in Idaho in the late 80's. Peterson's I think picked the "Top 5 bull counties". We'll low and behold Lemhi county made it. The following years were a nightmare. We had entire archery clubs coming out and setting up camp. Like 20-30 people. The once quiet and excellent unit that the locals put in for turned into a zoo. I know that there isn't anything that can be done but it sure stinks to turn a honeyhole into a huge fishing hole.
 
Sure Mark, no problem.

My point is that they give a heads-up as to what the odds they print/represent are explained as they go into the numbers.

I have no real knowledge of your state in question runs the draw.

I do notice that when some states carry the applicants draw out thru a few 'choices' that it becomes so insignificant as far as a percentage draw from 2nd/3rd choices that 1st choice is what represents the numbers in most states of HuntinFool.

If it is 1 in 12 odds but 2 drew as 2nd choice and 1 drew as 3rd choice then that might change the 1 in 12 to 1 in 15... make sense...?

I basically lok at overall odds and that is how it seems to end up after all the number crunchers get thru going in many directions...

I think if someone that constantly challenges HF for the odds they put in publication would take a month and put together their own publication or prototype of a publication they would find that with all the cost involved to break every unit down thru all choices available that it wouldn't be worth it to print such limited-- doesn't really change enough of a percentage points to justify the cost and effort/research...

Take for instance Utah.... 485 pages of unit by unit, weapon of choice species by species, resident and non-resident point columns and point pools... it prints out as 485 pages and that isn't including any unit by unit comments or suggestions!!!!
That would be one hell of a monthly magazine!!

Look at your state in question.. Print out the odds for all species... how many pages is that? Unreal isn't it!

Don't even go with the Corvis Report for Colorado by species, weapon, point pool..... 1800 pages???

Thats some very cost restricting issue of a magazine!

Robb
 
They don't call it hunting Fool for nothing. You have to be a fool to pay $100 for it. Yes, I got sucked in and bought it and they will never get another $100 bucks from me. Biggest scam in the industry. If you think you are joining an elite club, think again. 10,000 people are getting this info and I'm sure most share the info with there buddies. I finally broke down and called Garth about an area and he was in a big hurry to give me a canned answer and get off the phone. I found one thing intersting. Last couple years he was selling LO vouchers in a certain undersubscribed unit in CO and was touting it as one of the best areas in the state. I asked him about the unit while on the phone and he said don't waste your time in that unit. It's interesting now that he isn't selling vouchers in that unit anymore that it is suddenly not the best unit. Sorry to be so negative about this guy, but the way he runs his business really gets under my skin.
Oh, and as a side note, you can get a subscription to Eastmans Jouranal,Eastmans bow hunting Journal Trophy Hunter, and Muley Crazy for the price you pay for his service.
Hunt'n Fool does have a nice format with some good stories and some good state by state references, but not worth $100 bones IMHO.

Mike
 
I agree there, that's why i never shelled out my own dough to get the same info that I can gather myself. Call it self-satisfaction but I really enjoy finding a place to hunt and then going out and killing an animal on my own. I guess now I should be happy cuz now I get to find a new place to hunt elk and get to explore other areas hopefully away from the crowds/subscribers. Garth definitely found a niche and he's getting paid to publish public information so I'm glad he's making a good living at it but I'd rather be one step off his trophy radar.
 
Gotta agree w/ the love/hate relationship expressed by others. About 5 years ago I started getting serious about applying for pts in multiple states w/ the anticipation of being able to do a few out of state hunts when I got out of college (same time my Dad would be retiring). It took a few years, but I finally started getting the hang of things (regs, app dates, points needed to get tags in certain units, etc.). A couple years ago I recieved a complimentary issue of Huntin' Fool. At first the magazine seemed awesome. They basically jammed all the info/knowledge that took me years to acquire, into a magazine that took about 2 hrs to read. It was great if you were just getting started, but it sucked if you already knew what you were doing. Since that time, I have watched several of the units(that I was interested in) draw odds drop from 15-20% to 5% (some cases even less). Basically, units that you could draw every 5 or 6 years became units that may take you 20 years to draw (based upon simple odds). Now, I can't blame this solely on Huntin' Fool because there's several other license app services out there (USO, Cabelas TAGS, etc.), but they certaintly didn't help.

W/ info becoming easier and easier to access, it has become even more important to keep your mouth sealed when you stumble across that honey hole. You're future hunting, and the hunting your immediate friends and family will enjoy depend upon it.
 
Any one on here that has a subscription mind emailing me?
My MT sheep area went from 140 applicants two years ago to 250 applicants this year. in the same time fish and game has actually taken sheep out of the area.
would really like to know if its been in this magazine.
 
Mike, I've seen the exact same info on a state, year to year BUT one change in regs that they identify that I missed in the regs can be worth a $100.00 to me.

Example: I always bought the license in Idaho and put in for what I think is the best late season deer tag in the state. After about 8 years of doing so without applying for elk, I read in HF that it would only cost me another $5.00. After buying $118.00 license and $5.00 for the deer app, another $5.00 would get me a chance in the elk draw. I used one of their recommendations and got a good elk tag. That whole year's subscription was worth that one tip. I can give other examples too.

I didn't subscribe this year just cause I'm against the drastic increase in Colorado landowner vouchers that I blame solely on GC and AP. My personal boycott.
 
Hell if it aint the Hunting Fool it would just be another

Hell i wish I would have thought of it so I could have everyone pissed at me but the people I was helping

Dont get me wrong I would be a little upset also if I was hunting a unit and it made the top 10 in Carters

But really would the really good tags be easy to draw if the Hunting Fool didnt do what they do?? I dont think so

Hell I see about the same info on MM as I see in the HF but I cant read MONSTERMULEYS in my Bathroom

Anyway for a $100 its a HELL of a deal!!!!!!!

UThunting
Clynt L Citte

P.S Good Luck all in the 2007 Draws It will be a GREAT year to have a TAG
 
I have to stand up for HF and say that they are obviously not just out to make a buck. After I drew...I called them and they pointed me in the direction of a few folks that may help me with Landowner trespass info. Spent a good amount of time on the phone with me, and did not ask for a dime. Units,states,quality,odds etc all will go through cycles of change. But good folks willing to help a hunter out in new territory are always appreciated. Biggest problem I see in reading most of the posts above is the underlying "selfish" attitude or thought that it is MY favorite spot getting ruined. Not being judgmental...but I count it a privilege to hunt a good area on a good tag, and am grateful to anyone that helps me do it.

Cheers, Roadtrip


"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" Dean Wormer, Animal House
 
USO will spend a lot of time on the phone with you, and will probably even send you a brochure.........they wont charge you for that either.

Is that ethical?
 
Garth Carter needs to go get an antelope tag and spend the rest of his life hunting that antelope.. I disagree with HF!! These dudes are not hunters, they would do well in politics..
 
Truth is, I enjoy doing the research myself. Reading the stats and making phone calls gets me through the off season. It's a little discouraging when someone else pays a hundred bucks to replicate that which I have spent a lot of time and energy on. But that's life...I don't begrudge subscribers for taking advantage of the service and the Carters have a right to make a living.

Besides, if you really want to know the truth from Garth and Jason it ain't in the Hunting Fool! It's right here...on the net. We can all spell "Carter". The zip code is on the subscription form. With a little detective work you can learn the rest. Bingo! State by state after you check your drawing results, check his. Have you ever telephoned a buddy at work and told him what tags he did or did not draw. The steps are the same. Now the privacy act has made this harder than it used to be. But ten, twelve or even two years ago this was info right in front of your eyes.

Would you believe that Garth and Jason sometimes applied for their own "#1 picks"? They sure did...but on NUMEROUS occasions they were applying for hunts that were not listed as top 5 or even top 10. After I saw this for myself I personally have had no use for their "services".

Good luck in the draws
 
Hell it might be worth your $100 to know what is in the HF so that you dont apply for those units if you think it stinks that bad

As for Jason and Garth not putting in for units that they have as top 10 I dont blame them hell it says in all of the mags they put out what the odds are and if they dont have points for some reason or another why would they try and draw a tag that is not possible to draw they got in on the points and have drawn some great tags (that are in there top 10 ) over the years but now they need to start over again and would like to hunt year too year Plus there looking into new areas thats cool with me hell I dont just put in for there top 10 and I pay $100 for there info

And as for Nocking them for the info they put out HELL I think the internet is not fair (and it costs more then $100 a year ) there is a LOT more info there then in the Hunting Fool should we not use the internet ???? What about Hunting mags like Outdoor life if there is a story on hunting muleys somewhere in the Rockys Should I not use that info (I payed for that info)

Anyway Like I said if you dont like it dont buy it!! anytime somthing new comes out there is a few that think it is not ethical or un-fair in some way ie: rifle scopes spotting scopes High powered rifles rangefinders dam this is the information age the list gos on and on

I can see why some of you are mad over the HF but its just more info no differnt then gettting it off the internet it should not be looked at as The BIG BAD WOLF

Most of you already know the top unit for deer in Utah Henrys most of you know the top elk unit in Utah Pahvant how about Wyoming Deer 102 or 128 if you draw these tags you still need some skills and more info then just the Hunting Fool too Harvest a BIG one

Quite Nocking other people that are supporting Hunting in the future we will need to come together to fight the anti-hunters and dont think it aint comming its already here

Hell sorry to go on and on I just cant stand seeing someone that is trying to do somthing good get nocked at every turn

I hope you all draw some GREAT tags this fall and post some monsters here on MM

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 

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