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canhunter
Guest
I just read a post in General Hunting saying RMEF is pro Wolf. Any information on this? I and others in our camp are members but hate the wolves excessive predation and the politics involved with wolves.
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canhunter
Guest
I did but nothing that shows them as Pro Wolf. Maybe I missed it. I hope they are not like AARP who do great things for Seniors but totally support the liberal agenda.
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WYhunter
Guest
As I have watched RMEF over the last few years on the wolf issue it appears to me they are trying to be "politicaly correct", as they say. They are riding the fence trying to not take a position. Their magazine has had articles where people were allowed to express concerns about the wolves and then they have had some very pro-wolf articles. The RMEF has been very careful not to offend any of the pro-wolf people. They are all about raising money and I know of some relatively extreme conservationists who are pro-wolf that give them money. I think the RMEF does alot of good but it seems ironic that we have wolves dramaticly affecting elk here in Wyoming and they do nothing about it and then they solicit money from me to protect elk and their habitat,etc.
WYHunter
WYHunter
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huntingnut1
Guest
I posted this in the other forum.I just read a article and the rmef beleive the wolves should be delisted and managed just like any other big game animal.
jim
jim
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huntingnut1
Guest
I found the article at eastmans and it is the article please dont feed the wolvesIt mentions that rmef beleives wolves should be delisted.
jim
jim
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WYhunter
Guest
I found the article you mentioned the fellow is not part of RMEF and so he is not actually speaking for them. I also checked the RMEF website. They have no offical statement on their website. There is only a posting telling when the delisting meetings are but no position statement. If you do a search of the site you will find an article written by a past chairman stating in very politically correct terms that he supports delisting but he ends there and indicates the organization encourages wolf management but again this is no official statements from RMEF themselves just other folks indicating what they think the RMEF position is. Neither of these articles darn go so far as talking about the harm wolves are doing etc. It is like I indicated before, RMEF is being very careful as to there approach regarding this subject to not offend pro-wolf people.
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drahthaar
Guest
You can go ahead and keep thinking of any excuse in the world not to join or send them money, it doesn't really matter. But don't crack on an organization that was founded by hunters and is by in large hunters dedicated to protecting HABITAT. Did you get that? I said HABITAT. Especially winter range, which is getting divided and subdivided all over the west and this country. And not only in the west either. The RMEF has contributed millions to protecting land on the other side of the Mississippi to get huntable, viable populations of elk re- established in several states. Loss of habitat is the big problem facing our elk in the future. Wolves will come and go, elk will come and go. Once land is gone, put under streets, homes, roads, concrete and pavement, its gone forever. That is the mission of the RMEF. I don't want my time and money being wasted on politics. That is what the wolf issue is, it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with biology, and if you can't see that, then you need your head examined. The RMEF spends my money on real tangible projects, not rhetoric and emotion, that is the way is better stay. And its one of the top organizations on spending your money, dollar for dollar, on what they say they want it for.
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BUGLELK
Guest
The RMEF is not pro-wolf. They support the delisting of the wolf and the management of the wolf by the states. If you go to www.rmef.org and type wolf position in the little search box, it will bring up their official statement. They are not a political organization; they never have been and they never will be. Their mission and their goal is to preserve and protect elk habitat. They have recently added a part to their wolf position statement along the lines of not getting involved with the politics of the wolves because it divides the members of the RMEF which would limit the organizations ability to continue preserving elk habitat. They ask their members to use the public process to make their voices heard, but they will continue to be an organization that protects elk habitat, not one that gets involves with politics. Here's a quote from the statement:
"Any such division would weaken the Elk Foundation and divert attention from the longstanding, imperative focus on our mission - the protection and enhancement of critical wildlife habitat.
Habitat -- food, water, shelter and space to roam -- is the indisputable basis of healthy wildlife populations, and its loss to subdivision and development remains the most serious threat. Once gone, it cannot be replaced. Therefore, the Elk Foundation?s focus will remain, as it always has, on protecting and enhancing places for elk and other wildlife to live."
"Any such division would weaken the Elk Foundation and divert attention from the longstanding, imperative focus on our mission - the protection and enhancement of critical wildlife habitat.
Habitat -- food, water, shelter and space to roam -- is the indisputable basis of healthy wildlife populations, and its loss to subdivision and development remains the most serious threat. Once gone, it cannot be replaced. Therefore, the Elk Foundation?s focus will remain, as it always has, on protecting and enhancing places for elk and other wildlife to live."
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,529
Good info Buglelk.
It has been said so many ways, but the simplist explanation is that the RMEF does not spend one dime on political agendas: NADA.
RMEF is ONLY about habitat. Name one other organization that spends almost 90 Cents out of every dollar on PROJECTS = Habitat preservation and enhancement.
They will never spend one dime to help promote wolves, and they will not spend one dime to fight wolves. Again, they don't do causes expect their ONE, repeat ONE cause, habitat.
If you want to fund a "fight wolves" organization, be my guest, I will probably help fund that organization myself. I am about as antiwolf as they get.
RMEF = habitat preservation.
Got it????
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
It has been said so many ways, but the simplist explanation is that the RMEF does not spend one dime on political agendas: NADA.
RMEF is ONLY about habitat. Name one other organization that spends almost 90 Cents out of every dollar on PROJECTS = Habitat preservation and enhancement.
They will never spend one dime to help promote wolves, and they will not spend one dime to fight wolves. Again, they don't do causes expect their ONE, repeat ONE cause, habitat.
If you want to fund a "fight wolves" organization, be my guest, I will probably help fund that organization myself. I am about as antiwolf as they get.
RMEF = habitat preservation.
Got it????
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
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WYhunter
Guest
You are right the RMEF is all about Habitat. (Too bad that is not the only problem facing elk.) You have also proven my point that they try not to offend anyone so they raise as much money as possible, that was exactly my point! I never said they didn't do alot of good. I never said they were pro-wolf!!!
Now do you GET IT!!!
Now do you GET IT!!!
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,529
Yep, I get it. However, what I don't get is why someone would pull out or decide not to give to RMEF because they won't take "their side" of a political agenda.
And while Habitat is certainly not the only problem facing elk, it is certainly one of the most important problems elk face for the future. In my opinion, it is the most important.
Didn't mean to sound condescending. I just get frustrated when these discussions come up somewhat dividing orgainizations that do so much good because someone wants them to be something they are not.
If you want to join a political organization that is only about fighting for hunting agendas (they don't give one dollar for habitat) join the Sportman's Allience. Great organization, but I don't get mad at them because they don't do anything for habitat.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
And while Habitat is certainly not the only problem facing elk, it is certainly one of the most important problems elk face for the future. In my opinion, it is the most important.
Didn't mean to sound condescending. I just get frustrated when these discussions come up somewhat dividing orgainizations that do so much good because someone wants them to be something they are not.
If you want to join a political organization that is only about fighting for hunting agendas (they don't give one dollar for habitat) join the Sportman's Allience. Great organization, but I don't get mad at them because they don't do anything for habitat.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
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huntindude
Guest
I think RMEF is pro wildlife but not excactly pro hunter. I'm not saying they're anti hunter because they're not but they've decided to ride the fence and keep everyone they can as a member. this may be ok most of the time but as in '94 when we were fighting the ballot measure to ban hunting bear and lion with dogs here in Oregon RMEF wouldn't help us at all. we lost and our game herds have suffered more damage than all of RMEF's projects in Oregon have done for elk 100 times over. touchy feely articles in Bugle about wolves shows the hippies they care I guess and not taking a stand with hunters keeps them on board . after their fence riding screw up with us I now throw all my support behind FNAWS, they're pro habitat and pro hunting.
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drahthaar
Guest
Whatever. You get three people in a room together and they will always have something to argue about. You guys keep implying the RMEF is somehow doing something bad by taking money from non-hunters or anti-hunters to further their cause. If anyone should be whining, it should be those folks, because their money goes towards projects and lands where hunting is allowed. But you don't hear them screaming this loud, because they can see the bigger picture, and that hurts me to say that.
What do you think goes on at these banquets? Its not the place for a bunny hugger. There are animal "heads" all over the room, Guns are flying around the room, hunts are being auctioned and raffled off, games of hitting the deer in the heart with darts, total overtones of hunting everywhere. And you gripe about some stupid non-hunting article in Bugle, that may touch on the spiritual side of the outdoors, that might make some guy in some concrete jungle just happy enough, that he throws in $35 bucks again this year, even if he has to wade through the other 90% of the articles that are about killing an animal. I am slightly annoyed by that.
And huntindude, I am sorry and very irritated that you guys lost those privelidges in Oregon, but again, that is politics and do you really think not having the RMEF jump in the fray was the deal breaker? I don't know much about that whole deal there, but I kind of doubt it.
What do you think goes on at these banquets? Its not the place for a bunny hugger. There are animal "heads" all over the room, Guns are flying around the room, hunts are being auctioned and raffled off, games of hitting the deer in the heart with darts, total overtones of hunting everywhere. And you gripe about some stupid non-hunting article in Bugle, that may touch on the spiritual side of the outdoors, that might make some guy in some concrete jungle just happy enough, that he throws in $35 bucks again this year, even if he has to wade through the other 90% of the articles that are about killing an animal. I am slightly annoyed by that.
And huntindude, I am sorry and very irritated that you guys lost those privelidges in Oregon, but again, that is politics and do you really think not having the RMEF jump in the fray was the deal breaker? I don't know much about that whole deal there, but I kind of doubt it.
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huntindude
Guest
I can't say for sure RMEF's support would have changed the outcome but I can say it wouldn't have hurt. you're right that's politics but if the anti's have money and organizations to push their agenda we need an organization to speak for us. RMEF is a fence rider and won't be there for us so don't count on them for anything.
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BUGLELK
Guest
Huntindude,
What could the RMEF possibly have done to save hound hunting? They are an elk habitat organization, and they don't profess to be anything else. Where was Trout Unlimited during this fiasco? Why didn't they lend a hand?
There are organizations that put their resources into fighting political battles, and there are organizations that put their resources into other important areas. If the RMEF had made an official statement supporting the hunting of bears with hounds, do you think it would have made any difference? If they would have spent RMEF dollars fighting the battle, I would imagine a large percentage of their membership would have left the organization (most non-hunters don't support hound hunting/baiting, and a good portion of hunters don't even support it). Then the RMEF would be left with a group of bear hunters supporting their elk habitat restoration goals and not have the resources available to accomplish their original mission, which is to protect elk habitat!
It is important not to mix the two groups into one...it allows them to stay focused on what they are trying to accomplish, without trying to explain to their membership why they do or don't support this or that, and trying to fund 100's of side projects that aren't within the scope of their goals.
When you build a home, there are many subcontractors who work on that home. When a pipe breaks and floods your basement, you don't call the siding guys and yell at them for not preventing this tragedy from occuring. They each have a specialized function, and they are each just a single piece of a large puzzle. Blaming an elk habitat organization for not saving hound hunting doesn't make sense...
Respectfully,
Corey
What could the RMEF possibly have done to save hound hunting? They are an elk habitat organization, and they don't profess to be anything else. Where was Trout Unlimited during this fiasco? Why didn't they lend a hand?
There are organizations that put their resources into fighting political battles, and there are organizations that put their resources into other important areas. If the RMEF had made an official statement supporting the hunting of bears with hounds, do you think it would have made any difference? If they would have spent RMEF dollars fighting the battle, I would imagine a large percentage of their membership would have left the organization (most non-hunters don't support hound hunting/baiting, and a good portion of hunters don't even support it). Then the RMEF would be left with a group of bear hunters supporting their elk habitat restoration goals and not have the resources available to accomplish their original mission, which is to protect elk habitat!
It is important not to mix the two groups into one...it allows them to stay focused on what they are trying to accomplish, without trying to explain to their membership why they do or don't support this or that, and trying to fund 100's of side projects that aren't within the scope of their goals.
When you build a home, there are many subcontractors who work on that home. When a pipe breaks and floods your basement, you don't call the siding guys and yell at them for not preventing this tragedy from occuring. They each have a specialized function, and they are each just a single piece of a large puzzle. Blaming an elk habitat organization for not saving hound hunting doesn't make sense...
Respectfully,
Corey
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huntindude
Guest
The point is they are NOT a hunting organization, it's not the hound hunting it's self it's the loss of the management tool and thus the loss of our game herds. if the organization is to help elk wouldn't not having them all killed by predators be part of that mission? and wouldn't politics and legislation be part of that? not if it offends anyone it seems so ride the fence. when the question came up about if RMEF was pro wolf one could probably say yes, for the most part. they aren't against them that's for sure, that stand could lose some hippie support and we can't have that . if you take RMEF for what it is it's fine, a good conservation group but I'm not just wanting to supply more dog and cat food to the wolves and lions. FNAWS is just one of the organizations where your money is better spent in my opinion, they're willing to take a stand for hunters without checking the wind first.
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,529
LAST EDITED ON Apr-18-07 AT 06:14AM (MST)[p]Slice it anyway you like it, but you are still mad at an orange for not being an apple.
And to be mad at an organization called the Rocky Mountain ELK foundation for not jumping on board on a bear issue is really a stretch.
Fighting with lawyers for the right to hunt is another EXTREMELY important issue that faces us all, one which the Sportsman's alliance does all over the country and that I why I give to them too. Maybe I should rethink my position and not give to them because they don't spend one dollar on preserving a place to hunt on?
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
And to be mad at an organization called the Rocky Mountain ELK foundation for not jumping on board on a bear issue is really a stretch.
Fighting with lawyers for the right to hunt is another EXTREMELY important issue that faces us all, one which the Sportsman's alliance does all over the country and that I why I give to them too. Maybe I should rethink my position and not give to them because they don't spend one dollar on preserving a place to hunt on?
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
RMEF is "PRO HABITAT" not pro elk or pro wolf or any other species. Durning the Utah wolf management meetings Bill Christensen would not show up for a vote for or against wolf's. Yet other groups stood up and did not want wolves in utah to hurt what we are striving to bring back... RMEF dose't want to loose any / all of there Corporate sponsors like Budwiser. I guess it is just easier for them to sit back and get reports back on wolf's eating elk day after day from all over the west!!!
Your RMEF "Conservation and Banquet" money at work for you!!!!! I am just waiting to see RMEF stickers next to PETA stickers on the back of cars nowadays!!!!!!
Tallbuck1
Your RMEF "Conservation and Banquet" money at work for you!!!!! I am just waiting to see RMEF stickers next to PETA stickers on the back of cars nowadays!!!!!!
Tallbuck1
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TFinalshot
Guest
elk are doing better now than ever they have in modern times. . . what's the beef? did'nt draw? RMEF whether for or against wolves recognizes the environmental, political, and social system in which it depends, and like true conservatives has figuree out a way persue its goals in a dynamic and changing world. Elk numbers are up, up, up. Some areas have been hit by wolves, but the sky is not falling and there still are elk to be had, you just will have to hunt them from now on, the days of shooting through herds might well be over. . .
>elk are doing better now than
>ever they have in modern
>times. . . what's the
>beef? did'nt draw?
>RMEF whether for or against
>wolves recognizes the environmental, political,
>and social system in which
>it depends, and like true
>conservatives has figuree out a
>way persue its goals in
>a dynamic and changing world.
> Elk numbers are up,
>up, up. Some areas
>have been hit by wolves,
>but the sky is not
>falling and there still are
>elk to be had, you
>just will have to hunt
>them from now on, the
>days of shooting through herds
>might well be over. .
>.
Nope, I havent drawn my elk tag yet but I no problem in hunting elk either. thanks for assuming that becuase I am not happy with RMEF, must mean that I havent drawn a great tag. There are better groups out there that support my intrests and ways of thinkin for hunting and conservation in the west! yes times change however that does not mean that the way things are changing is always for the better!
Tallbuck1
>ever they have in modern
>times. . . what's the
>beef? did'nt draw?
>RMEF whether for or against
>wolves recognizes the environmental, political,
>and social system in which
>it depends, and like true
>conservatives has figuree out a
>way persue its goals in
>a dynamic and changing world.
> Elk numbers are up,
>up, up. Some areas
>have been hit by wolves,
>but the sky is not
>falling and there still are
>elk to be had, you
>just will have to hunt
>them from now on, the
>days of shooting through herds
>might well be over. .
>.
Nope, I havent drawn my elk tag yet but I no problem in hunting elk either. thanks for assuming that becuase I am not happy with RMEF, must mean that I havent drawn a great tag. There are better groups out there that support my intrests and ways of thinkin for hunting and conservation in the west! yes times change however that does not mean that the way things are changing is always for the better!
Tallbuck1
