More apps than ever

T

Trad Bow 1979

Active Member
Messages
649
Ok so I've heard from 3 sources that say that there was more apps this year than ever. Makes me nervous that I'm gonna see that dreaded sea of red when the results come out. Does anyone know if this influx of apps came from residents or non residents?
 
>Ok so I've heard from 3
>sources that say that there
>was more apps this year
>than ever. Makes me nervous
>that I'm gonna see that
>dreaded sea of red when
>the results come out. Does
>anyone know if this influx
>of apps came from residents
>or non residents?


Yes I heard the same! Over 200,000 apps for 60,000 licenses. New record that beat last years. I would bet that with all the info (podcasts etc.) that it is more non residents. Goodluck! We will need it ??
 
Twenty year ago it was just Huntin Fool broadcasting apply, apply, apply. Now we got HF, EJ, Epic, goHunt, Toprut, HuntersTH, etc, etc. All of whom depend on increasing subscribers at any expense, especially recruiting new blood. The newbies don't want in at the bottom of pyramid schemes like Nevada & Utah, where they have a .0002 chance. But in NM, they have the same 2% chance as senior investors. So I'd expect NM odds to go downhill at an accelerated rate in the years to come.
 
I help out in the archery shoppe and I can tell you there is not very man slow times through out the year like there used to be. Every weekend is stuff full of people and people are buying bows all year round. I can definitely see how this has evolved into more people in the draw. Many people applying have never hunted.

I am glad people can get to experience the same love for hunting I have. However, I think hunter safety/bow safety should be required or at least a qualification for hunting.


Hopefully we know by Friday!!
 
That's why NM needs to go to a point system and should require that all applicants must have a Hunter Safety #. This would eliminate ignorant hunters from applying and give more experienced hunters a better opportunity to draw a tag.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-18 AT 07:05AM (MST)[p]In NM we all have the same equal chance and that is a good thing. A point system would be the worst thing for NM, just look at what point creep looks like in the other states. 14 years to even be considered for a tag for certain areas, no thanks. I haven't drawn in 2 years but I still think NM' s system is the best. We all want to hunt but that not going to happen every year. On those years we don't get drawn go with those so called ignorant hunters and help teach good sportsmanship and hunter ethics. We don't need a rule for everything. We just got to step up.
 
I like the variety and different ways that different states handle their draw. I like the random draw aspect of New Mexico but I wouldn't mind if they went to a point system of some sort. And if/when they do I hope and pray that they continue to require folks to front the tag fees. I think that going away from the random draw AND requiring folks to front the fee would improve my personal odds tremendously because the non-resident applicant pool would drop substantially.

My biggest beef with New Mexico has been hashed out many times on here. I don't like the guide welfare. Set the NR percentage and let it go.

Honestly, I don't mind using a guide but I'd like to be able to pick my guide AFTER I find out where I drew. If I put in for elk in three different units I'd like to be able to utilize the best guide for the area. And the best guide in 36 isn't the best guide in the Gila. The best guide in 12 isn't the best guide in 34. You get the point. I just hate being locked down.
 
NM is one of the few state in the US with GROWING hunter numbers something we can all be happy about. Draws are tough but we all know areas that are 50-90% draw odds you just gotta trade quality of hunt for time in the woods. We are also blessed with landonwer tags that we can buy at anytime if we choose. Next door to the north is unlimmited over the counter tags and in TX we hunt almost anything.

No way on points thats the END to you ever hunting twice in your life! Ive been in the points game along time and have my kids in it as well..... want to tell me what to do with my 18 points for elk in CO and 15 for deer, Now i know i could draw a unit with maybe a 300 bull but thats NOT why i started! I would rather learn a OTC area and kill nice bulls evey year or two. How about all my AZ, WY, MT etc..... points. NM is the best system. If you want to draw apply for easy to draw hunts, we have a pile of them or hunt Colorado OTC units. I have had the privlage to draw 2 elk tags and 1 deer tag since 1997, they were all world class hunts. I have bought a few landowner tags for cows, bulls and even oryx and aoudad and deer to "get my fix" but now that my kids are old enough i am applying for a few easy draw hunts to hunt with my children. Yea i wish i could hunt the gila or 34 every year but i relish the chances i have and BY CHOICE apply for tough hunts............ because i want the experience NM is known for!!!

Good luck to all, see you in Colorado, and i hope none of you draw my NM tags!!!

Chris Guikema
www.compasswestoutfitters.com
 
Interesting to hear that there is an estimated 200,000 applications for the 60,000 available tags. I would tend to believe that some of these have to be dead apps that were deleted or abandoned and never paid for. Is an app # generated when the application is added to the shopping cart, or only after being paid for? Either way some people have to delete apps for whatever reason; filled out incorrectly, or change of mind as to what hunt codes they decided on etc.
I did apply for my first hunt within the first 5 minutes of the applications being made available and also for my last hunt with only 5 minutes to spare before 5 o'clock. I know for a fact that there is a 160,000+ difference from my first to my last application.
I am curious to hear the exact number of apps from the NMDG&F.
Good luck to all and may the green land on at least one of your hunt codes. It's getting tougher and tougher each year to draw a tag.
 
Only 200,000? That means I have a one in 3.33 chance of drawing a tag! I'll take those odds any day. }>
 
No points!!! I will become very active if this is ever done. It only raises the bar to get new hunters and the next generation in.

Ask yourself this, how do points allow a hunter to hunt more often? They don't add to the number of hunts!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-18 AT 08:41AM (MST)[p]HELL NO TO POINTS! That's blasphemy! The worst thing that could happen to our system! The sport is growing! I would be comfortable making a wager that a majority of spike in applicants are NR . As for the comment of " better hunters should get the tags" ,I'm sure when Paul reads he'll chime in. I try n hunt primarily wilderness units ,and I won't say the "BETTER" hunter should draw those tags ,cuz once we all were beginners. I will say I do have a strong feeling toward the MORE EQUIPPED guys applying for the wilderness units. I've said before and I'll say it here, I find so many wasted animals each year it makes me sick. Odds in certain units are better for a reason. The primary reason being not everyone is equipped properly to hunt them. Others are the hunting just isn't that good. All in all we are just going to see draw odds take a downward spiral.
 
I was a NM resident for 30 years and have since moved to Idaho. I apply in 10 states every year and see a wide range of draw systems. I can tell you preference points are not the way to go for sure. bonus points are a good option to increase your chances each year you are unsuccessful but it will never guarantee you a tag. learn the difference between bonus and preference points. NM lets everyone have 3 choices before they move onto the next application. many other states look at everyone's first choice before they look at your second choice. this improves odds for the hard the draw and easier to draw units by eliminating people from applying for example unit 2C first choice then 34 3rd choice. It makes people pick between more trophy units and opportunity units basically getting rid of the "wanting your cake and eating it too" people. Some states have waiting periods once you draw a certain tag to reduce the # of applicants. One thing Idaho does that improves draw odds for Moose, Sheep, Goats is to make you pick ONE species to apply for. NM has like 7 species you can apply for...what if they said you can only apply for 5 species? NM also lets you get a refund on their hunting license! you could probably reduce the # of NR by eliminating the refund. Most states charge around $150 non refundable for a license. You guys already F over the NR that aren't guided with the guide welfare system giving more tags to guided hunters than DIY guys so why not take away the license refund? Anyways lots of stuff out there to help with draw odds that aren't preference points is my point.
 
kimbersig, agree with most of your comments. I too apply in every western state for virtually every species and have been doing so for a long time. As far as rating the best draw systems, I rank Idaho and NM at the top. Both are random draw states with no point systems. I will give Idaho the distinct edge though.

The reason I say that is because Idaho limits you to applying either for Elk & Deer & Pronghorn, or to choose one OIL species (Moose, Sheep, Goat). And you only get one hunt choice that counts, not three or four or five. This allows those who really want one of the OIL species to have a very good chance to draw. Typically the random draw odds for those species for residents can range from 1:3 to 1:20 for the moderate-demand hunts, with the extreme demand hunts having tougher odds. Those are by far the best resident draw odds of any western state for those species. Their system allows those who are willing to accept a lesser demand unit to have a much better chance to draw, since many people will only apply for the best units, as they only get to choose one hunt code per species.

These kind of odds are only a pipe dream in the NM system, where most people will never draw a sheep tag or a high-demand elk tag in their lifetimes. This is partly because everyone is free to apply for every species every year, at virtually no cost. And they get to choose multiple hunt codes for every species. When it comes down to it, that feature of the system really has no tangible benefits as compared to the ID system. But it does tend to trick people into thinking they're getting a better chance to hunt "something" yearly. Unfortunately, this is completely false, since the total number of hunting tags issued is going to be exactly the same regardless of the particulars of the draw. There's only so many tags available, for the same number of people applying. It's mainly a mind game being played on the masses in NM, with the bonus of no cost pressure for participating. And it seems to be working, based on the reports of ever-increasing apps. Which means there's no motivation for NMDGF to change a thing.

I'll still take NM's system over any other state with bonus point systems or preference systems. Those other states systems are a near-total wreck. But the NM system could still be improved, and at the same time, draw in more revenue for the G&F dept.
 
NM should really get rid of the guide welfare.
If the guides provide a good service then people can choose to book with them but they shouldn't be gaurenteed 10% of the tags.
In my opinion preference points only work well for tags that would have reasonable odds like 20% or 50% chance of drawing. That way everyone can get a tag every 2-5 years but I prefer NM draw system over any other western state. Everyone has a chance. I'll probably never get a bighorn tag in NM and that is ok because at least I have a fair chance. In Nevada I'll probably never get a bighorn tag either but NV bighorn tag either but right now I hardly have a chance, in thirty years when I'm getting older I'll have a better chance at a bighorn tag in NV but I would rather have better odds when I'm younger and can hunt.
 
We were new to nm draw. Mostly because my hunting crew is 2 younger boys so we have been waiting for growth.

U don't want a point system. Especially if you have kids. Its great for the guys who started on the first year. But for a new hunter, elk tags are 15 yr +. It really hoses anyone just coming into hunting.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
+1 on no points! There are enough states that have point systems. Play the game in those states. I do every year but certainly appreciate having a couple states that I can apply in that the field is level and at least have a shot at a premium tag.
 
>That's why NM needs to go
>to a point system and
>should require that all applicants
>must have a Hunter Safety
>#. This would eliminate ignorant
>hunters from applying and give
>more experienced hunters a better
>opportunity to draw a tag.
>

SORRY BUT NOPE NOPE ??
 
I would like to see source of the 200k # app's as the draw has not been made public, yet?
More people. I may be wrong but NR's # are not skyrocketing.
NO POINTS!!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-18
>AT 08:41?AM (MST)
>
>Only 200,000? That means I have
>a one in 3.33 chance
>of drawing a tag! I'll
>take those odds any day.
>
>
>HAHAHAHA me too
>
>
>Chris Guikema
>www.compasswestoutfitters.com

Hahaha. I'm sure these include ?dead? apps and gronola People putting in etc. good luck in the draw and outfitting. Looking forward to seeing your pics.
 
>I would like to see source
>of the 200k # app's
>as the draw has not
>been made public, yet?
>More people. I may be wrong
>but NR's # are not
>skyrocketing.
>NO POINTS!!


Hank the 200k came from the game wardens much of us have spoke too. If any number is going to show a large margin of grow it definitely will be NR.
 
Its great for
>the guys who started on
>the first year. But
>for a new hunter, elk
>tags are 15 yr +.
> It really hoses anyone
>just coming into hunting.

I couldn't disagree more. My oldest son can start putting in for New Mexico youth hunts next year (once he has reached the age where he can take Hunter's Ed) and I will begin putting him in for points in all states and youth tags in almost all western states as he reaches the various age requirements. I'll do the same with my younger son in a few years.

Based on the way a lot of western states handle youth hunting opportunities it will give him the chance to hunt as a youth and build points for down the road. My sons will actually know that they will have the chance to hunt sheep on a draw tag (probably a few different times) before they turn 60 or 70 years old. They will be able to hunt premium units across the West for their entire lives. Maybe not every single year but most years. The key is starting them in the point game young. It will cost me a little bit of money each year but I wish that my dad had done it for me so I'm going to do it for my boys.

I don't mind the New Mexico (non-point) system. I just don't want every state going to it. I don't have much in the way of luck so I need some states to have a system where I can KNOW that I'll eventually draw.
 
Stick sender I agree NMGF won't change as they are raking in the dough! I will keep applying even tho the odds are abysmal for a NR as it is dirt cheap in the grand scheme of things. I know a lot of residents that are struggling to draw tags so I don't think the increasing # of applicants is all NR. I think NM is in a great position as they are not a points state and I think with minor tweaks they could improve draw odds while maintaining current revenue to fund the agency which I think should be their goal. For example ibex and bighorn are the two hardest to draw....if you had to buy a non refundable license and could only pick one of those two that would increase odds and probably increase revenue for the state.
 
Not a fan of sitting out years after you draw either. Just another form of welfare to someone at the expense of another.
 
Not a fan of sitting out years after you draw either. Just another form of welfare to someone at the expense of another.

How is it at the expense of anyone? They drew a tag they get to take a year off and give someone else a chance.
 
I'm with smarba on the sitting a year out deal. I'm sticking with one weapon choice if any modifications were ever to be done .
 
Come up with whatever system you want. I will make it my business to figure it out so I can go hunting.

I am good with the current system. 3 year waiting period would be fine also, I dont think it would help odds much though.
 
>Come up with whatever system you
>want. I will make
>it my business to figure
>it out so I can
>go hunting.
>
>I am good with the current
>system. 3 year waiting
>period would be fine also,
>I dont think it would
>help odds much though.


It wouldn't help with odds very much at all. Let's take a popular hunt like 16D second archery for NR's. They have 4 tags. 916 NR's listed that hunt code in 2017. If you took out the last three years worth of tags you would eliminate 12 people from being able to draw. Just wouldn't make a big difference at all.

And yes, I understand that out of the 916 total applicants there were some that drew other tags and would have to sit out. I just think it would end up concentrating the applications to the better units. Why would anyone list a mid or lower tier unit for their 3rd choice just to hunt if it meant that they would have to sit out 3 years? Most people would only list premium units and therefore likely jack up the odds even worse.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-18 AT 03:31PM (MST)[p]>>Come up with whatever system you
>>want. I will make
>>it my business to figure
>>it out so I can
>>go hunting.
>>
>>I am good with the current
>>system. 3 year waiting
>>period would be fine also,
>>I dont think it would
>>help odds much though.
>
>
>It wouldn't help with odds very
>much at all. Let's
>take a popular hunt like
>16D second archery for NR's.
> They have 4 tags.
> 916 NR's listed that
>hunt code in 2017.
>If you took out the
>last three years worth of
>tags you would eliminate 12
>people from being able to
>draw. Just wouldn't make
>a big difference at all.
>
>
>And yes, I understand that out
>of the 916 total applicants
>there were some that drew
>other tags and would have
>to sit out. I
>just think it would end
>up concentrating the applications to
>the better units. Why
>would anyone list a mid
>or lower tier unit for
>their 3rd choice just to
>hunt if it meant that
>they would have to sit
>out 3 years? Most
>people would only list premium
>units and therefore likely jack
>up the odds even worse.
>
12 tags is 3x as many tags obviously. So I would say it would make a difference.
 
I know for me having the results available last year before Nevada was the reason I applied this year. Looks like it will change this year which means NM is up in the air for me next year. The dismal odds always make it a nice to have not need to have for me anyway....
 
I like NO POINTS in NM just fine... although I have only drawn one Antelope tag in 43 years of applying. I think some of the increase in apps IS Granola Munchers trying to get tags to throw in the trash and keep hunters from getting them, they have had a campaign to do this in other States....Communist Calf. is where it started.
Jack
 
>>I would like to see source
>>of the 200k # app's
>>as the draw has not
>>been made public, yet?
>>More people. I may be wrong
>>but NR's # are not
>>skyrocketing.
>>NO POINTS!!
>
>
>Hank the 200k came from the
>game wardens much of us
>have spoke too. If any
>number is going to show
>a large margin of grow
>it definitely will be NR.
>
Cool,just curious. Just more folks hunting I guess.
 
I kinda figured the 200k was close,for reason stated in 180k last year.
I could agree on the 3yr wait after a premium draw. Maybe more OIL tags.
Still better than 9k+ applying for 35 tags in some western units....
NO POINTS. I like our system.
 
>I kinda figured the 200k was
>close,for reason stated in 180k
>last year.
>I could agree on the 3yr
>wait after a premium draw.
>Maybe more OIL tags.
>Still better than 9k+ applying for
>35 tags in some western
>units....
>NO POINTS. I like our system.
>

$9k for applying for 35 tags? That's not bad given that I had to front more than that just for the NM draw. But i?m not complaining. NM has been good to me. And I agree, NO POINTS!
 
It does not matter if it is a point system or not. Odds are going to suck either way. Everyone who is talking about their kids not getting tags in a point system till they are 30 are still going to have kids that do not get premium tags in a no-point state like Idaho or NM. I have never drawn a tag in NM as a NR since I started applying 10 years ago. I have been applying for hunts that I know of that aren't the best either with up to 15% draw odds. My draw odds are accurate too. I probly wont hunt a slam dunk draw unit as I cannot justify spending NR tag fees on a lesser hunt than I can get someowhere like my home state just for the sake of a tag as there is a ton of meidy-oaker hunts where I live. It takes a lot of luck and maybe a lifetime of applying to get a descent hunt even in a state that does not have bonus points.
 
So if the antis are trying to flood the applicant pool, that's actually a good thing. More money coming from sources other than hunters to support NM wildlife. After a year of harvest reporting, NMDGF should be able to adjust the number of awarded tags upwards in order to account for anti-applicants, and still keep the antis' money, with no additional loss of wildlife resources. I'm not seeing a down side to this... ;-)
 
>And everyone say we need to
>recruit more hunters and kids...BULLCRAP.......BULL!
>

Only if we want people to support us on gun laws, funding, and land access. Let's not forget that the not all hunters hunt big game.

That said, it is impressive that people say hunting is down yet applications are always going up. My only guess is that it is because it's easier to apply now.
 
We need to recruit more hunters because there is a war on against our culture and heritage.

We are not much of a political force as it is. Only getting worse. Just look West to CA to see what will happen to hunting.
 
>>I kinda figured the 200k was
>>close,for reason stated in 180k
>>last year.
>>I could agree on the 3yr
>>wait after a premium draw.
>>Maybe more OIL tags.
>>Still better than 9k+ applying for
>>35 tags in some western
>>units....
>>NO POINTS. I like our system.
>>
>
>$9k for applying for 35 tags?
> That's not bad given
>that I had to front
>more than that just for
>the NM draw. But
>i?m not complaining. NM
>has been good to me.
> And I agree, NO
>POINTS!
9k people put in for 35 tags,hell I was in one with 14k folks for the 35 tags one year. Most I have ever spent in the draws is $1500 for 3 states....before 1990 too.
 
>We need to recruit more hunters
>because there is a war
>on against our culture and
>heritage.
>
>We are not much of a
>political force as it is.
> Only getting worse. Just
>look West to CA to
>see what will happen to
>hunting.

I agree Paul as a California resident it's a battle and I see all western states right behind California stupid laws.
 
>>We need to recruit more hunters
>>because there is a war
>>on against our culture and
>>heritage.
>>
>>We are not much of a
>>political force as it is.
>> Only getting worse. Just
>>look West to CA to
>>see what will happen to
>>hunting.
>
>
>I agree Paul as a
>California resident it's a battle
>and I see all western
>states right behind California stupid
>laws.

And NM loves to follow CA on stupid laws. When Grisham gets elected who knows what crap we will get?
 
>>>I would like to see source
>>>of the 200k # app's
>>>as the draw has not
>>>been made public, yet?
>>>More people. I may be wrong
>>>but NR's # are not
>>>skyrocketing.
>>>NO POINTS!!
>>
>>
>>Hank the 200k came from the
>>game wardens much of us
>>have spoke too. If any
>>number is going to show
>>a large margin of grow
>>it definitely will be NR.
>>
>Cool,just curious. Just more folks hunting
>I guess.

Ya just think I put in 7-8 apps myself so if a lot of others did there is 200,000
 
Agreed, I will give a slim percentage in draw chances to have more involved and enjoying and fighting and voting to keep hunting and keep out guns. Small price to pay to keep what we love to do.
 

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