Droptine bull makes front page!!

R

Ronaldo123

Guest
According to the local newspaper, The droptine bull was shot only 340 yards from an occupied structure. So the head is going to be auctioned off to the highest bidder. you can read the whole article at wmicentral.com under "porter mountain residents angry over elk hunt"
I tried to post this in the original thread, but its locked????
Ron
 
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18658900&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

Porter Mountain residents angry over recent elk hunt
By: Sean Dieterich, The Independent
08/03/2007

Area residents are upset after this large bull elk was shot by a hunter July 26 in their Mountain View Ranch neighborhood. The problem, according to Game and Fish and residents, is that the hunter shot too close to homes. Game and Fish has issued a citation to the hunter, Mike Malik of Michigan, for violating an Arizona law.

Area residents are upset after this large bull elk was shot by a hunter July 26 in their Mountain View Ranch neighborhood. The problem, according to Game and Fish and residents, is that the hunter shot too close to homes. Game and Fish has issued a citation to the hunter, Mike Malik of Michigan, for violating an Arizona law.

LAKESIDE - Some residents near Mountain View Ranch on Porter Mountain Road are distraught and angry after an elk hunt reportedly took place very close to their homes July 26.
Residents in the area awakened that morning to the sound of gunshots. After all was said and done, a large bull elk was killed and the Arizona Game and Fish Department has left to sort things out.
Game and Fish has issued a citation to the hunter, Mike Malik of Michigan. Malik is the owner of Paradice Hunt Club in Davison, a 1,000-acre whitetail deer-hunting region and resort.
Curt Farrier, a resident near the area where the hunt took place, said it all unfolded a quarter-mile from his home. He said he woke up around 5:15 a.m. to the sound of a gunshot. Thinking it was a drive-by shooting at first, he went back to sleep but got out of bed when he decided something wasn't right.
Neighbor Krissie Almour said a phone call woke her up at 5:30 a.m. The call came from neighbor John Babbitt, telling her not to go outside because hunters had shot an elk near her home.
"I was thinking, 'What hunters? Where are the hunters?'" she said.
Around 5:35 a.m., Almour reportedly called Farrier's house to relay the news. Farrier said while his wife talked with her, he heard more gunshots and yelled at the hunters to stop shooting because of other animals in the area. He said the elk finally went down at 6 a.m.
Farrier said during the hunt, the hunter and his outfitter were on private property.
"(The hunter is) supposed to be 440 yards away from a dwelling," he said. "Every place they took a shot was in private land."
Farrier said the first shot happened near a fence separating Mountain View Ranch from the rest of the properties in the area. Since the elk did not go down with the first shot, he said the hunter stalked it as it tried to get away. He said the hunter took the last shots near two houses.
"They got between the houses and shot," he said.
Soon afterwards, Malik, outfitter John McClendon from Cottonwood, Arizona Game and Fish and the area residents converged on the spot where the elk fell and tried to figure out how it all happened. Farrier said many of the residents on scene were those who witnessed the act with no idea of what was going on.
"These people are all watching, freaking out," he said.
Farrier said the outfitter was asked by Game and Fish if they had written permission from the residents to hunt there or if they had informed the residents beforehand and they both replied "no." Game and Fish, having reason to believe the elk was not taken lawfully, confiscated it. Farrier said the head of the elk will be sold at an auction while the meat will be given to a food bank.
Game and Fish said Malik had a special permit to hunt. Public information officer Bruce Sitko said special permits were introduced in the mid-1980s, with two initially given out per year per big game species, such as bighorn sheep, mule deer or elk. He said that the permits are either auctioned off or raffled. Malik's permit was obtained through auction.
"All of the proceeds from those permits go to management for that particular species that permit is sold for," he said.
Sitko said the Arizona Legislature recently allowed a third permit to be sold. With the permits the hunter is allowed to hunt in designated game management units, as determined species by species by the Arizona Game and Fish Department Commission. A majority of the units are open for a particular species every year, and the permit allows the hunter a yearlong pass to hunt, regardless of the time of year. Malik's permit ran from Aug. 1, 2006 to July 31, 2007.
According to Sitko, Malik was in one the designated areas, but reportedly fired too closely to occupied structures. Farrier said he talked with Malik after the hunt and was told Malik had three previous hunts in Arizona but did not shoot anything. He added that Malik said he felt bad about the whole situation.
Nevertheless, the incident has emotions running high in the area. Farrier said herds of elk are known to run around the area right in their backyard. The elk that was shot was well known to the community.
The thing that has Farrier really mad, he said, is where the elk was shot. The area is not forested, as it is just grassland with a pond in the middle. He likened hunting an elk in an open area like that to shooting in a corral.
Almour said she was angry and sad about many things regarding the incident. She felt her property rights were violated when Malik and his guide wandered onto her land. She was also saddened to learn a hunt was taking place in the same area where her husband Jeff Almour died in a plane crash more than two months earlier.
But what has Almour most upset is that the elk was advertised online. She said the hunter might have been enticed to come out to Lakeside with video of the elk, possibly taken from a resident. She said that action might have put the rest of the herd in jeopardy.
"I felt that elk was pimped out on the Internet and sold to the highest bidder," she said. "It was a blatant misuse of trust and friendship."
Babbitt said Malik contacted him via phone after seeing pictures of the elk on the Internet. He said he let Malik know where the elk was and guided him on the animal's path into the forest.
"I showed him right where the animal goes into the forest," he said. "I wanted to make sure he shot him out in the forest."
Babbitt said he went out with the rest of the residents after the incident occurred and did not go with Malik for the hunt like some alleged. He added that he was just as mad as anyone since the hunter allegedly went onto private property to hunt.
"He just didn't hunt the animal in the forest," he said. "He was too antsy, I guess. He should've gone where I showed him."
Calls to Malik were not returned by press time.
Arizona Game and Fish served Malik with a citation after conducting an investigation of the incident. Game and Fish reportedly determined the first shot from Malik took place 340 yards from Farrier's house, well within the 440-yard boundary. Game and Fish also said the second and third shots were reportedly taken from between two houses, which are only 677 feet apart.
"It's illegal to discharge a firearm within a quarter-mile of an occupied resident while taking wildlife without permission," Sitko said. The law comes under Arizona Revised Statute 17-309 A 4. It is considered a Class 2 misdemeanor, punishable by up to $750 in fines plus 80 percent in surcharges, up to four months in jail and up to two years probation.
Sitko said the investigation is open, so more charges may be pending. Farrier said it doesn't make him feel any better, knowing the hunter is a wealthy man.
"That guy's got enough money to buy his way out of it," he said.
Meanwhile, the residents feel like they are left to pick up the pieces. Farrier said the people in the area "are in such a tizzy." Not only that, he said people all over the state are learning of this incident.
"Everyone from Phoenix to Flagstaff to Prescott knows about this," he said.
Almour said there was nothing to gain from this situation.
"No one won out in the end," she said.



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LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-07 AT 09:16AM (MST)[p]Now thats messed up. What a bunch of dumbasses. How stupid can you be? They should make the guy buy the head back from G&F for at least $50,000+. I guess the truth comes out and they are guilty. Mclendon should have his guide license revoked for a few years.












It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Sounds like a "tough" hunt! Nothing like shooting a neighborhood pet, eh? What a douche!
Eric
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Ultra liberal, wolf loving, illiterate, gay, hippie midgets on crack piss me off!!!!

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I am just wondering when the guide fraternity, which defended these losers, will say they were wrong? Don't hold your breath.... But hey, those guides sure knew their stuff......
 
They wont say they were wrong. They'll blame it on someone else, perhaps G&F or the hunter himself. But the guides, no way, they never do anything wrong. EVER. Except USO of course!



It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I do not know of what happened or the hunter but like anyone with an internet connection I have an opinion. ;-)

1. This will get everyone up in a tizzy. I would hope that the Arizona fish and game would make the statement that wildlife is a resource and not pets. There are many people who use them (pictures, hunting, what ever...). Anyone with 2 acres of property do not have much say because they do not have enough property to really do much for an animal like an elk.

2. The hunter side of this activity is to put it in our brain that ask first and keep the distance between shooter and houses etc...

3. I think that this dude will end up getting off because of the money he has... If OJ got off killing someone on the foot steps of a house this guy can get off for killing an elk 330 feet from the occupied structure. If the police and Game officers did not do everything to the 'T' then he will get off and walk away with his elk... Too bad...

Just from reading the article that started this thread the hunter dude sure has an ego...
 
How do all these jacka## events occur on these auction hunts when no one else is even on the unit hunting?

And you wonder why the general public is slowly turning against hunting.

The details that have come out about this hunt and the Nevada hunt are just disgraceful.
 
Yep, a picture is worth a 1,000 words, and that one just about says all that needs to be said about this "hunt". Only thing it needs is a time/date stamp on it to shout out JULY!!!! good grief what a joke.
 
and you guys (referring to those on original post) were all over KO when he originally posted the FACTS, saying " oh were you there...yadda yadda" What does the McClendon clones have to say for themselves now?
 
I don't understand all the problem. A rich guy gets to hunt early, kills a dandy bull... a guide gets a photo for his website and massive fee... This is what's great about hunting! Why would anyone want to get the big money out of huting I'll never understand.
 
This is out of hand. You shouldn't be able to hunt elk in July - ANYWHERE - FOR ANY REASON! Our states have sold our wildlife souls to the highest bidder.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
So the guy is rich. Does this mean that in addition to buying his way out of some prison time, he will also be the highest bidder at the auction for the head?

What would be cool is if some AZ residents pooled their resources to make sure that he doesn't get it. I'd even be willing to kick in some scratch. Send a message that this kind of crap won't be tolerated.
 
AZ402 ~ What say you?

What does the person with the "first hand knowledge" have to say about this version of events?

Does the article have it all wrong?
 
They should. It would only make it fair! After all, it wasn't the hunters fault.





It's Bush's fault!!!
 
They got the whole damn state to hunt all by themselves and they shoot a bull next to some houses. Yep, these high dollar tags are making things better for all of us.
 
Just unbelievable really. What drives a person to do this kind of thing? Obviously the outfitter was driven by money, as many of them are. We don't have special tags like the one this guy used here in Montana. Thank God. mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-07 AT 07:44PM (MST)[p]well hopefully he can add a fat fine to his cost of tag + guide fees + finders fee + purchasing his antlers back fee + his mossback gratuity for "owning" the bull+ taxidermy fees + paying off the neighborhood watch to look the other way + has to be some special subdivision fee for feeding trophy bull= the first million dollar bull!
 
First off, I was pretty surprised to see so many folks post "Let's wait and see what the investigation reveals before we make any judgements". I was curious if folk thought they were going to call in the FBI forensic squad or put Columbo on the case. When the game warden seizes a bull of that size, they don't do it on a whim- and it's a safe bet the investigating was pretty clear. Having said that, this news article from the Doo-Diddly Cronical doesn't necessarily constitute the gosphel and any discussion of this elk should be made in the hypothetical.

Hold on to your hat's MM members, but I don't think anyone should be villifying the outfitter, the guides, or the hunter in this case. I agree that one of the biggest mistakes is by the AZF&G for making that license valid in July- They've got no business hunting elk in July and that needs to be rectified. Set that issue aside, and your personal beliefs about the Great-White-Hunters and the comercialization of hunting- and your left with a hunter who bought a big bull tag, an outfitter who found a big bull, and guides who put their hunter on a big bull. It sounds like a good deal of effort was put forth to make sure proper measures were taken to gain access to the bull (i.e. paying off the landowner depending on your perspective) If the bull had dropped like a rock or ran the other direction, we wouldn't be having this conversation. (Except for the fact that there was exactly one hunter in the entire state of AZ in July, so they should have known there might be a few game wardens keeping an eye on them)

I think the issue at hand- at least the issue I want everyone to mull over, is the "almost-maybe-kinda" factor when it comes to obeying the game laws, because the vast majority of things that get hunters in trouble (and leave them cussing the game wardens) involves a simple mistake or a close call or momentary laps of judgement and NOT some kind of dirty or underhanded philosophy: "It was ALMOST shooting light, I KINDA got 40 feet off the public road, I was ALMOST certain I was shooting at the same animal both times, I KINDA had permission to hunt there, We were MAYBE 500 yards from that house."

I don't think we should be hammering on these guys at all. I think it's more likely than not they're all honorable folks that probably feel pretty tore up over this whole deal. I think we should recognize how easy it is for any of us to find ourselves in a similar situation and shoot a spike, or shoot two identical forkeys, or shoot too close to a house, or jump out and shoot the biggest deer we ever saw and never think that we're standing in the middle of the damn highway, or there's a big no tresspassing sign between you.

What I hope everyone takes away from this story is a reminder to take a few seconds to run through the "am-I-doing-this-right" checklist before we pull that trigger.

And if you do screw up- don't blame the damn game warden if he doesn't say "Awwh shucks you seem like a cool dude, don't let it happen again". Do you really want Barney Fife out there making sure bulls like this one are still around for you in October?

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http://www.naweoa.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&page_id=15&menu=1500
 
About the hunting in July. To my understanding, the AG&F gave these tags a 365 day season because there is already a law in the books that says something to the effect, that you can not fly aircraft to scout or hunt or whatever while there is a big game season in progress. With the 365 day season with these tags there is always a big game season in progress. I think that was AF&Gs attempt at getting rid of Shootplanes. And I don't think AG&F thought that anyone would actually be out hunting bulls in the dead of summer. Just wait till someone with one of these tags takes a Desert Bighorn in April.
 
shotgunjim,
The flying law makes an exception to these tags. You can still fly before seasons open, regardless of this 365 day season.








It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Sometimes hunters find themselves in situations where even though they maybe doing everything legal, they still need to hold the itchy trigger finger and pass. This looks like one of those situations. Seeing that pic of the dead bull with the house in the background is a classic example of the hunter and the guide not using the brain that God gave them.
Up here in BC we have a open season on Spike/Fork Bull Moose. The bigger bulls are on Limited Entry. Now these Spike/Forks are almost an ghost like creature and very few of them exist because it is only bad genetics that will allow a yearling bull to come up with this kind of antler configuration.
Last year I was hunting with my wife and kids in a very remote area. Low and behold I encountered a spike bull standing in the middle of a logging road a hundred yards from us. Now, because I knew the area very well, I knew that either side of the Right of Way of that road was private. The road was a Forest Service Road and it is completely legal to shoot on it. The bull was legal where he stood. But did I shoot? Nope. I let that bull walk and taught my kids a lesson in proper hunter ethics. If I had of shot, that bull could have taken 2 leaps and he could have died on Private land. I then would have had the same issues as this Outfitter and hunter now have.
 
"I felt that elk was pimped out on the Internet and sold to the highest bidder," Ms Almour said.

Did she just call that big old bull a Ho?
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-04-07 AT 01:16AM (MST)[p]Ms Almour's neighbor is the one who did it. and like he said, all the hunter had to do was wait till the dang elk headed down the trail into the timber.

" Babbitt said Malik contacted him via phone after seeing pictures of the elk on the Internet. He said he let Malik know where the elk was and guided him on the animal's path into the forest.
"I showed him right where the animal goes into the forest," he said. "I wanted to make sure he shot him out in the forest."
 
Like someone said before, thats not hunting.... thats sad.
You have the whole damn state to yourself and you hunt in someones backyard...
What about the neighbor that said he heard gun shots and thought it was just a drive by shooting so he went back to sleep,WTF.
 
A drive by shooting? All of you guys from Showlow: Has there ever been a drive by shooting in the White mountains?

Does anybody believe that the hunter contacted the landowner and not the guide?

Warden: That was a great post, I have never looked at it from that perspective. Thanks.
 
AZ402...HAS A LONG OVERVIEW ON THIS ELK HARVEST, ON THE 2ND PAGE OF THE ELK FORUM. IT SOUNDS LIKE HE KNOWS THE MC CLENDONS AND THEIR HELP AS WELL AS WHAT WENT ON. ON A PM I RECIEVED A FELLA SAID AZ402 IS PART OF THE MCCLENDON GROUP...PAST/OR PRESENT EMPLOYEE..OR JUST A GOOD FRIEND....DONT KNOW. HE DOES GIVE A GOOD VIEW OF THE SITUATION THOUGH. CHECK IT OUT----YD.
 
it was not a good post by tmbrlinewarden because he miss spoke. Again the game and fish are claiming that the hunter's first shot was under 440 yards from a living structure. In fact, they are claiming that from ANY point along the fence line that they admittedly shot from is within 440 yards from a living structure. So it is not a situation where the elk just took an unfortunate turn after being shot the first time and ran towards the houses. The first shot was the lawbreaker and the second shot was even closer to houses. And the hunter's group are trying to claim after the first shot the g&f instructed them to move in to finish the elk off, while this also is not true according to a game and fish source. They shot twice on their own before game and fish moved in to instruct the hunter to move in and finish off the bull.
 
what a shame, that picture sure puts a black mark on the hunters from the antis, was this a guided hunt from the nevada outlaw, just jokeing. lw
 
Naw Bubba- I don't think I said that- I know their claim is they ranged the house at 500 yards, but I have every confidence the AZF&G would not have seized that bull if it wasn't QUITE clear they were within that distance when they first shot. My only point is, you don't have to be a dirtbag poacher to make that kind of screw up. They didn't use the time effort and patience to make sure they were within the law- and i've seen that happen to hundreds of good honest folks. (They SHOULD have taken that time effort and patience to the next level and designed a hunt that would have taken that bull in the afternoon when he was probably well away from the subdivision- but that's easier to see now after the fact too)

As far as the Nevada bull goes, no one's questioning the legality of that bull (other than inuendo about the airplane)And I for one couldn't care less about the drama that goes on between competing tribes inside the universe of monster bull outfitting.

I would rather see 9 year olds learn about what it means to hunt by killing rabbits, doves, and forkeys, and not by spending countless hours finding monster bulls to sell to rich people. I'm NOT bad-mouthing anyone's parenting skills- scouting with your dad is a hell of a lot better than the kid sitting around in the house text-messaging cheat codes for the latest cop-killing X-box game. I just think being a a part of the family monster-bull-ultra-rich-get-huge-horns-at-all-costs business at the ripe old age of nine leaves a kid lacking a perspective and value for hunting that he'll never get back. My personal opinion.

On the flip side, My 4 year old won't eat a Kentucky-fried-chicken leg without asking who shot it. My 12 year old came home from school one day with the license plate number from a truck he saw parked in the canyon with (lion)dog-boxes. I told him to leave the scepticism to the trained professionals. I want him to grow up to be a hunter- not a warden. There's room in his life to be both, but that's something for him to figure out as a young adult. (maybe he'll grow up to be an outfitter)

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http://www.naweoa.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&page_id=15&menu=1500
 
Warden.

I'm surprised at your view of these guys. I have done ALOT of hunting for 30 years and I have never "accidentally" broken a game law or lost control of my "senses" because of a trophy animal's presense. I have never woken up from an adrinalin rage to find myself in the middle of a hiway firing a gun. I have always known where I was and what I was supposed to be doing. Am I different than everyone else ??

No excuse for this mess other than they couldn't control their desire to "kill" that bull and the risk was worth it to them. Just didn't work out this time.

JB

PS- before anyone starts in about it, I didn't say I have never broken a game law, I said I have never "accidentally" broken a game law.
 
JB. I read my posts and I guess it does come across like I'm trying to defend them or something. I'm not- they screwed up and in doing so gave hunting a black eye. and I agree there's no excuse for their not doing this one right. (what happened to all the folks in the previous thread who were trying to say it was all the game wardens fault)

My point starting out was to be careful throwing rocks- it could happen to you too. Sound's like you are pretty careful, others who are pretty ethical guys in the big picture will pay more attention to the buck their watching to the (legal) environment around them. Some out there will flat-a$$ know what they're about to do is against the law, and make a concious decision to try and get away with it. Some folks leave the house thinking they want to go poach something, they just don't know what or how. It's not my job to decide which group someone's in, just to enforce the line that the citizens of NM have drawn in the sand between hunting and poaching. My hope in (some of) my posts is to help folks move from whatever group they're in to a better one.

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http://www.naweoa.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&page_id=15&menu=1500
 
Timberline, thanks for the excellent, well thought out posts. I for one think your comments are some of the best on this website, this thread or others.
 
I think about this and wonder how anyone would want to just go kill a big bull in the middle of some houses. You have the mother of all elk tags, 365 days to kill any bull in the greatest elk state in the whole country... AZ and this happens. With that tag I would want to be out in the wilderness truely hunting, knowing I had a whole year I would really make it the hunt of 100 lifetimes. Killing a bull, even a big drop tine like that wouldn't mean a thing to me if I killed it like that. What kind of memorys would you have? What kind of story could you tell about the hunt? Instead of the thrill of the hunt you would have the fear of hitting a house or wakeing up the neighborhood. I guess this is what big bull elk hunting is comeing to for some. I am sure that people that don't understand hunting really aren't going to understand this.I think I would get more out of killing a 5x5 with a bow in the middle of nowhere after a couple of weeks camping and hunting hard. Killing a big bull in a subdivison or close surroundings even if legal, just doesn't do it for me.
 
joedog,
nicely said!!!i am just wondering why they had made it this far with the tag??mcclendons know where and, guide hunters to some giant bulls?they couldnt get one shot during the rut???there are places in unit 10 9 27 1 ect where giant bulls roam and there are no homes?these big money tags are great for money going to help habitat ect but, when huntings reputation is at stake why risk some nincompoops giveing "real hunters"a black eye so some rich guy can sit around and tell his buddys how he "hunted""killed"a 400" bull while smoking 200.00 cigars??arrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!i often wonder why its called common sense?????my 2 cents.
averagejoe
 
This Trophy hunt was for a wall at the lodge, So customers can come and dream. It Obviously had nothing to do with hunting.

Does that make it wrong ? Maybe for me, and what i look for, But i like to hunt and watch animals in their environment.

If all you do is work and you only get two days off, and you are a dreamer with no time this could make sense.

I went on a guided hunt in Colorado estes Park area. Lot's of Bulls, Great guide, Fun group. Had to question myself as we watched a 330 bull come out and stood broadside. Above me was a woman on her porch lighting a cigerette and watching me and the Bull. The guide said that it was O.K. because she would get $1,000 if i took it. I looked over and started laughing, put my bullet back in the magazine and tipped my hat to the bull and then the lady as she quietly clapped her hands. I looked at the guide and said thank you it was a hunt that i would never forget.

It just was not for me. I did not need one that bad at any price.

But some of you may be different and it would have looked great on your walls !

I did get some great pictures of bulls and did not take one. All the Bulls that i took pictures of was eventually taken, By the hunters driving through the houses.

It was bizare, But i'm sure that the people that drove up and killed them thought that it was great to them.

I believe it was the deep snow that pushed all of the elk there.
 
Those elk in Estes just hang out in the town and on that golf course. I got some great photos one year on that golf course as one big bull put on a great show for everyone running off the smaller raghorn bulls and doing his thing. He even jumped the creek and ran right past me, got within 5 feet of me (that's a really blurry shot, btw...and I'll have to dig those photos up and scan some). He didn't care if he was around humans at all. The golf course people named him, "Mr. Cantankerous" because he was pretty ornery and they made people steer clear of him (which, obviously, I didn't steer clear enough but in my defense, I was quite a distance from him at first until the little 5 point showed up. Oopsey! My husband called me a dumbass...lol Me and a dozen Japanese tourists....)

It's great fun to watch but I can't imagine shooting them as they graze by the swingset at the local park or wander into town in between the houses. They're still wild animals, not like pets or livestock, but I'd just prefer to shoot one a bit further away than someone's back porch. Even if the back porch is back up in the trees like those houses are in Estes. Good call, Cocina.
 
So where are all the defenders of these outfitters who were so abundant on the other posts? Cat got your tongue?










It's Bush's fault!!!
 
EXACTLY JODOG


Good posts folks, especially like your insight Warden. I'm glad you stuck around.
 
if you even wonder if you're too close to a house to shoot, you need to go somewhere else. anytime legallity is decided by a tapemeasure and lawyers, it was a screwed up deal.
 
Warden,
Lots of good points in your first post, I do have one point though. When somone shoots a bull after shooting hours or accidently on the wrong side of the fence it usually doesn't get this kind of publicity. Shooting an animal so close to houses, while it may be similar in severity to the things you mentioned, gets far more attention than most violations and has a far more adverse affect on the reputation of hunters and hunting. Thanks for your view.

Andy


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http://www.trophyblogger.com/Andymansavage
 
Maybe McClendon could prove it was a legal kill by breaking out some footage from the many video cameras they film their hunts with...right? Well, actually my guess is this "shoot" may not have been filmed for a couple of reasons: (1) Malik does not want his "shoots" publicized...he's shot other big bulls with McClendon not on the videos; and (2) the houses in the back ground would look a little wierd on an Awesome Bulls video, which by the by are pretty Awesome, as are the McClendons as elk hunters and guides IMO.

However...other than paying big $ to come "shoot" the bull, all in the world the "shooter" has to do is "shoot" the damn bull. So why the F#&%*, at the very least can't he practice a bit and learn to "shoot" the F#%*ing rifle. Problem would be solved even though it's not a hunt but simply a "SHOOT"!!!
 
I have a lot of respect for the McClendond's as outfitters and guides. I am very surprised that they would take part in such a "shoot". They don't need a hunt like that. They put hunters on great bulls that aren't out in the hay fields. I'm not sure what they were thinking.



It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
Koury,
Come on man! Life is to short for this. Your a good person, don't drop to this level of rumors, etc. We all know the McCledon's are good people. Just let it go.... We grew up together man. We as hunters are always wanting to pick the scabs of our competition and make the wounds worse. When in fact, they did everything in AZGAF fashion. These rumors are not cool nor professional. What ever happened, happened! Let's let the court make the decision. Until then, go find another bull and move forward.

RC
 
>Koury,
>Come on man! Life is to
>short for this. Your a
>good person, don't drop to
>this level of rumors, etc.
>We all know the McCledon's
>are good people. Just
>let it go.... We grew
>up together man. We as
>hunters are always wanting to
>pick the scabs of our
>competition and make the wounds
>worse. When in fact, they
>did everything in AZGAF fashion.
> These rumors are not
>cool nor professional. What
>ever happened, happened! Let's let
>the court make the decision.
> Until then, go find
>another bull and move forward.
>
>
>RC

Best post to date on this topic!

PRO
 
Regardless of if people think it was illegal, it is still the United States of America where hopefully you are still presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Sounds to me like the game and fish will have to prove where the shot was fired from in order to prove guilt but I am no attorney.
I do agree that there possibly was a lapse of good judgment in this whole thing, but like Timberline Warden posted, the whole intent of this should be compliance and making us all think twice when we do something. JMO
 
I don't know the McClendons as friends but spoke to Levi some years back. He was a great guy who is pationet about elk hunting. I think highly of John and his family , the respect John has instild is shown in how his sons deal with people on a day to day basis. The whole hunting world knows these guys put monster bulls on the ground every year , and every chance some stranger gets a chance to talk to any of these family members the first thing that they do is try to find out the million dollar information , yet John and his boys still carry themselves with respect. As for AZ402 Stan , he is a good guy who comes in every once in awhile and is also good friends with the family , he grew up with them , so if he was to come here and defend , I'd say he's a great friend to the family. Let the facts come to life , but why hammer the McCledons. If they came in here and posted some bulls and shared where about these bulls are and so on , everybody would be a bit lighter on them in this whole deal. I have a hard time believing it happened with John's approval or atleast unfolded as planned. None the less , stop bagging on this family until facts are proven. Come at me with what ever you want, I can give a crap. I can tell you this much , the McClendons would NEVER INTENTIONALLY DO SOMETHING to blacken the eyes of sportsman , you and I ....
 
I am sure they are really good people I don't know them but have all their dvd's. This will all come to an end soon Im sure, but when you get yourself into a situation like this, hunting a well known, big bull of this caliber and this kind of thing happens and it makes the front page of the paper you have to expect some heat. Look at what happens if you cuss on some of these hunting sites.I don't think most people are disrespecting J. McClendon I feel most people are a little disappointed. In the end I hope it all works out and Im sure it will, I feel Mr McClendon has probably forgot more about elk hunting than most of us will ever know about it.
 
John McClendon put the word "Hunt" in Elk Hunting. He's is an awesome hunter, friend, father, and husband. I have the utmost respect for him and his family. He has taught his boys the same integrity which he carries. Let's let things pass! Besides, does it really make a difference. All it does it hurt people.

We go hunting to get away from it all. "It all" meaning; stress, work, traffic, school, bills, etc. Why are we now taking it with us hunting? I'm confused.

With all respect,

RC
 
Thats a funny post. I'd be interested to see how many people agree with you, I bet some are the same ones who are on board to bash other well known people who have caused heated debates on this board. Its also funny how some people make excuses to downplay what others do wrong, especially break the law.

"Oh it wasn't his fault...."
"He/she is such a wonderful person...."
blah blah blah.

If it turns out the law was broken, then they deserve the treatment they get. They should know better. Especially if they put the "hunt" in elk hunting.

"Besides, does it really make a difference"

Hell yes it makes a difference. It gives the anti's more and more ammo.





It's Bush's fault!!!
 
You are a very angry little fella! You are obvoiusly one to pass judgement.. And besides, you weren't there. Let me ask you something.. Do you believe everything you hear and read? Give it a rest go to bed or do something else better with your time.
 
Actually, I'm not angry at all. No I wasn't there, and yes, I do believe when I see a log cabin in the background and a dead elk on the ground in front of it, and in a situation like that I will pass judgement.

I notice that you want everybody to just drop this without telling us if the law was broken or not. If you were there and know the facts, lets here them. Let me guess, you can't tell us what they are? Pictures are worth a thousand words, and yes, until I here different, or see different facts, I will believe what I have read and seen. If you can prove otherwise, do so.







It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Just let it pass?

WTF?

I understand he's your friend and all, but hell...Jeffry Dahmer had friends too. Of coarse, he ended up eating them, but still.
 
Money, its actually JFP, not wtf. Do you know what Dahmers last words were? ..........



Eat Me :)

buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 
I think this is a personal item more then anything! Being that you and the McClendons are from the same town. Maybe that is what explains your rage. Hmmm!



Life goes on.....Oh,, I heard they make Prozac for imbalanced people like yourself. Because, if we ever to share the same woods I would like you to be stable. And, I guess it's Bush's fault your so dysfunctional and angry?
 
HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

NOTHING AGAINST YOUR SON REPORTING A HOUNDER BUT!!!

YOU SURELY HAVEN'T TAUGHT THEM THAT ALL HOUNDERS ARE UP TO SOMETHING HAVE YOU???

I'VE BEEN REPORTED BEFORE!!!

WTF FOR I STILL DON'T KNOW???

NOW DON'T GET MAD OVER ME CALLING YOU "HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP"!!!

I'M STILL WORKING ON A MM NAME FOR YOU!!!

THERE USED TO BE 3 HOUNDERS IN THE BASIN!!!

NOW EVERY FRICKEN PICK-UP HAS A DOG BOX IN IT!!!

THEY OUGHT TO MAKE A MOVIE CALLED "PROFFESSIONAL HOUNDERS IN 15 MINUTES"!!!

I DIDN'T KNOW THEY HUNTED ELK IN NM LIKE THEY DO HERE IN TARDVILLE???

ALWAYS A RICH BICH & MONEY RELATED!!!

469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Just as I thought, you have to start flinging BS about me being "unstable" because I ask you for proof you can't provide. Thats really stable. I guess I'm the only one who feels this way too, huh? Its really funny that you come on here trying to get people to let this pass, flinging BS insults, and dodging any and all questions about what happened. If you don't know, say so. But don't start off on some stupid insults because you can't answer simple questions.

Personal? I guess your right, afterall, I am the ONLY one on this website and amongst hunters everywhere who feels this way. Perhaps you should read how others feel as well.

Thats fine that your his friend and trying to defend him, however, it sounds like he broke the law, and should be held accountable. If not, once again, what did happen?

Perhaps you should do some research about the quote I have before you start more BS.


Oh! I better go take my PROZAC. Gotta make sure I balance myself before I head out!



It's Bush's fault!!!
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

I agree with Betsy. You are the man Bets.

Sremim - you sound like a complete a hole. I like your sign off."Its Bush's fault" Idiot.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Another tough guy slinging insults. What a surprise.







It's Bush's fault!!!
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Scremin, I guess I don't know what "facts" you want. The whole story is right here and the only debate is how far from the house were they on the first shot. The G&F says less than 1/4 mile and the hunter says more than 1/4 mile. If G&F can prove it was less than 1/4 mile then they will be guilty and will have to pay the fine.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Muley62,
I'm not debating that. I agree as to that being what happened. But when someone asks if I believe everything I read and see, to me that is implying that there are more facts, or different facts than what has been presented. I just want to know what those might be. Why is that such an issue to some of you?











It's Bush's fault!!!
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Sremim - Oh a conspiracy theorist. Spoken like a true democrat. Vote Hillary , lets see how this country looks then. Moron.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

fd,
Do you even know what the hell you are talking about? You're the moron. When you figure it out, let me know. Talk about a moron.










It's Bush's fault!!!
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

>It's Bush's fault ! Douche.

I am not the smartest guy, but I am pretty sure sremim is mocking all the liberals who blame everything on Bush, not that he blames everything on Bush.

Having said that, sremim are you saying the newspaper did such an extensive research on this 'story' that they reported EVERY single detail of it? Let this play out, then we will see what "really" went down and how.

PRO
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Pro - that may be the case but the way he is whining and trying to complicate this story with his conspiracy theory he sure sounds like a bleeding heart liberal.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Pro,
You are correct, I am mocking all the liberals, but fd isn't smart enough to know that. He obviously needs a definition of sarcasm.



No, I am not saying the newspaper did any extensive research, I know how they do very little research. No, I am sure they did not report every little detail either. All I am saying/asking, is for these people who know nothing wrong happened to provide some facts. I've gotten the impression from some posts that some know there was nothing done wrong. With the newspaper article and picture, I do believe there was something done wrong. I just want to know the facts like everyone else. Yes, we will have to wait, but if those who come on here have them, why not share them to disprove what the article/picture say? I'm not trying to start anything with anybody, unfortunately fd can't figure that out.







It's Bush's fault!!!
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Sremim - shouldn't you be getting on the short bus by now to go to your summer school history class?
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Exactly what I am talking about. You are one of those people who can't back up what you say. When you do, maybe I could have an intelligent conversation with you. When asked a question, instead of answering it, you have to fling insults and be dumb. But whatever floats your boat tough guy.






Bush's fault!!!
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

In my opinion it is a no win situation for John and his family, no matter what they would post, many would jump them and go apesh#$ on them, so I understand why they are sitting low, waiting for all this to be sorted out where it should be sorted out, in a court room, not on this forum. The same goes for the other top guide services, many on here detest what they do, so no matter what they would post, it would be slammed and twisted and it would only muddy the water more. A John McClenndon or a Doyle Moss or a Ryan Hatch would be crazy to come on here and try and have a reasonable discussion with this group of people. JMHO!

I see now that the bridge that collapsed the other day is Bush's fault also. WTF would the libs do if they didn't have Bush to blame for EVERYTHING?

PRO
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Exactly Pro - Leave it to the courts to figure out. Can't blame the fitters for not wanting to get involved in all this BS. Some people like our left winging liberal pal, sremim, really turn people off to this site with their rantings.

Sremim - when you grow up you might understand pal.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

You are probably correct PRO. They would get a new ##### chewed if they came on here.



This whole big mess, and the issue about the bull in NV are also Bush's fault. Didn't you know that?






It's Bush's fault!!!
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

>You are probably correct PRO. They
>would get a new #####
>chewed if they came on
>here.
>
>
>
>This whole big mess, and the
>issue about the bull in
>NV are also Bush's fault.
>Didn't you know that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>It's Bush's fault!!!


You're just a lost boy sremim.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Ironically sremim, I feel many on here blame outfitters for all ills and woes of the hunting world. I may have to steal your line and adapt it to say, "It's Mossback's fault". What do you think?

PRO
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

The point that's being walked past is that "something wrong" did in fact happen. Whether that something was illegal or not. People do all kinds of things that are legal and shouldn't happen. If legal is all the higher the standard of behavior we want to hold people to, we don't hold people very damn high.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Very true Colville. Where do morality and ethics come in ? Not in the laws that are written.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-07 AT 12:22PM (MST)[p]>Very true Colville. Where do morality
>and ethics come in ?
>Not in the laws that
>are written.

I read a statement that says, "Ethics can not be legislated, but they can be encouraged." or something along those lines.

While I agree this hunt could have been handled different, and I would like to believe I would of done it different. The issue IS whether or nor any laws were broken and what punishment is appropiate. Everybodys "morality and ethics" are different and impossible to enforce on others. We can try and persuade others to live by a higher set of "morals and ethics", but in truth that is all we can do.

I also believe all the uproar coming from fellow sportsmen COULD be used for the improvement of hunting for all, but the way many attack and put their ethics well above/better than another, it only widens the divisions in the hunting family, and THAT IS what will be the downfall of hunting as we know it, not the guides and their "shooters".

PRO
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

nope pro, the downfall won't be the argument. The downfall will be hunters turning a blind eye to bs actors, unethical and immoral behavior... just because it's legal. Our downfall won't be the internal dispute, it'll be our being labeled from the outside for our behavior. Accepting this crap because "aren't we all hunters" will be the end of us, not taking the high ground and holding ourselves to standards greater than what's legal. Guys hunting in July behind a sub-division with the aid of a guide? And I have to say, yep he's a hunter just like me for fear that if I call them out I'll make us look bad? Nope, they make us look bad and my staying silent implies I stand with them and I don't. And when people from the outside say that's BS, I'll say, you're right.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Colville wrote:

"Nope, they make us look bad and my staying silent implies I stand with them and I don't."

Who said to remain silent? Talk about hyperbole! I am saying, we can/should question these types of 'hunts', but we should do it in a way the hunters will benefit from the questions asked. The non-sense I have read from MANY posts regarding these July hunts are not productive and serve only to divide hunters, not make better hunters out of ANYBODY. Calling hunters pimps/prostitues/whores/the end of hunting as we know it/rich biches/'shooters not hunters', and on and on, does NOT improve the situation. Come out and say you believe it is wrong, fine. Come out and attack ALL outfitters/guides and ALL 'money hunters', accomplishes what? Not a damn thing, except give the anti's ammo and the ability to see ways to divide us further. I am not saying we shouldn't call into question certain aspect of todays hunting, I am saying the personal attacks and the puffed out chests claiming to be 'real' hunters as opposed to merely being 'shooters' who are lead to the animal by pimps does NOT help improve anything. For one, we STILL don't know the whole story, yet so many are quick to dog-pile on the evil outfitters and money hunters. That is childish and near-sighted.

Another point, I constantly hear how all the hunter does is, "show up and pull the trigger". Really? How do you know? I have guided some of these 'money HUNTERS', and have been impressed with their willingness to hike their asses off, and do everything in their power to HUNT! I had a hunter last year hunt 11 straight days, with his 'easiest' day being a 3 mile hike. He was up at 4:00 am EVERY day, and out until dark, getting to bed after 11:00 pm. How much harder should he have hunted to be considered a 'real hunter'?

PRO
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

Pro,
We have agreed many times on subjects in the past. I would like to point out though that in many of your posts on the Az bull and NV bulls shot you are arguing with people that simply have said what you just said, quote "While I agree this hunt could have been handled different, and I would like to believe I would of done it different. The issue IS whether or nor any laws were broken and what punishment is appropiate. Everybodys "morality and ethics" are different and impossible to enforce on others. We can try and persuade others to live by a higher set of "morals and ethics", but in truth that is all we can do".
Alot of these people have simply said "Even if,...." no laws were broken it is in their opinion that it was not handled correctly and a black eye on the sport. They were not saying the McClendon's were criminals but questioned their decisions on this occasion. Then these people get bashed on for " not waiting for the courts to decide", or "quit judging someone's actions when you don't know all the facts....etc. etc."
The truth is it is very clear and NOT debatable that the Az bull was shot if not under 440 yards very close to that distance from houses. people have every right to judge the guides and hunters poorly for making that decision to shoot that bull where they did . I would expect the for me if I guided a hunter in this situation. The events aren't fabricated, it is the truth..trust me. The only thing for the Courts to decide is if it was under 440 yards and the people you are arguing with have already conceded that point to you...it doesn't matter, in their eyes, if it was just beyond the 440 yards. It was close enough to be a bad judgement call, as you mentioned yourself.

So to everyone else, I liken this to the Barry Bonds-steroids issue. People who defend Barry Bonds or take an extreme what I call "freedom" stance say, he is inocent until proven guilty or there is no proof of his steroid use and that we should not judge him until that time. This is false thinking. We as people HAVE to make judgements every day based upon the evidence and circumstances placed before us. That is how we function. Is is perfectly ethical and not wrong. When the evidence is overwhelming and clear we are entitled to form opinions. Barry Bonds admitted to taking steroids, eventhough according to him unknowingly, first off. Second, we are given brains to logically look at his body and see his skeletal growth, both cranium and feet size, and come to the conclusion that he has taken HGH. I am in the health professions so trust me on this matter. Any argument against the fact that Bonds has not taken performance enhancing drugs is by a person that is either ignorant or knowingly disregarding the reality of the situation.

The same is in this case, the evidence is there that the elk was shot "near" homes and POSSIBLY under the lawful distance. Just dur to that fact we have every right to come to the conclusion that the guide and hunter were wrong in their actions and caused harm, to any degree, to our sport. Before anyone responds to this I hope it was read clearly and the reponse is without irrational thought....ie fdhunter!
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

pro, no one is talking about general season, pack in or hike in hunting. No one. No one is slamming guides guiding such hunts. No one is labeling all guides. People are saying if a "guide" puts a guy on an elk in a hay field near some houses or businesses in July that both the guide and shooter should be called out. If you want to post where poeple have denegraded guiding in normal seasons/areas cut and paste it. Guides are a great service to both wealthy and not so by giving access both to other states you can't scout and for transportationt to locations you can't otherwise hunt. It's a good deal for all of us. But there's been no "guiding" done when someone arranges to pay a landowner to shoot the local petting zoo bull that except for it being July would disappear and have to be acutally "hunted" come September.

Anyhow, this is about Gazillion dollar tags, finders fees and seasons that make the hunt a cull rather than an effort. I'm not calling you or any guide out for their regular business. But I don't care if a law was broken in this case I don't think that's the heart of the matter and I won't stop arguing with folks who say "let it die down, it's giving us a black eye". The argument is all that might eventually solve the problem, the black eye came from this cullings participants. Riling people up over this bullshlt might lead to enough popular will to make it end.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

I agree with alot of what colville had to say and as far as the guy you guided Pro that may be true but alot of what the public is seeing is on some of the tv shows. I saw one awhile back where a lady rode up a mt. in a pickup in the morning, the guide got out of the truck with her, set the rifle up for her pointed it in the right direction and said just wait right here the elk will show up in about 30 mins. they did, he got the rifle all squared for her then she got behind it and 2 shots later she was high fiveing her guide with the truck right there in the picture. Shows like that are becomeing the norm and we can't really call that hunting.
Hunting is, outside of my family my number one love and I hate to see some of the things that are happening.$$$$
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

I would love to if you weren't the posterchild for "internet tough guys". How about you quit calling everyone names and I won't call you names. Can't take the reciprocation? I don't know scerim but I'm smart enough to recognize that all he was trying to do is have a logical, rational discussion that this site should be built around and all you were doing was making personal attacks. He was asking for a discussion with interpretations or facts and you had nothing to offer but flinging mud. Not impressive.
 
RE: HIGHCOUNTRYFISHCOP!!!

>Scremin, I guess I don't know
>what "facts" you want.
>The whole story is right
>here and the only debate
>is how far from the
>house were they on the
>first shot. The G&F says
>less than 1/4 mile and
>the hunter says more than
>1/4 mile. If G&F
>can prove it was less
>than 1/4 mile then they
>will be guilty and will
>have to pay the fine.
>

There is also the issue of trespassing, no? According to the story, the "hunter" was on private property without permission when he shot the bull. Also, were there not more than one shot fired. The initial shot and then the final shot to put the bull down after it wandered into some dudes yard?

Regardless of the law, seems almost certain that piss poor judgment was used.
 

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