Is there no respect among hunters anymore?.

StickFlinger · Sep 22, 2003

I just had to get this off my chest and vent alittle please bear with me. During this past Kaibab archery deer season, I made two preseason scouting trips and spent hundreds of $$ to do so, as I do every year, to find an out of the way place to set up a stand. It rained the first 3 days of the hunt so sitting water was useless. The day after it stopped raining I went to set my stand, which was meaningless because of all the rain, but because I had a stand I fill I'm obligated to use it, I hate unattended stands. What do I find when I get there, another tree stand about two trees away from my stand. I leave the guy a note thinking he might of some how not seen my stand and asked if he would be kind enough to leave. I go back the next night to get in my stand and see his stand gone, good deal I think to myself then out pops a hunter in a ground blind that he built under it. I asked him if he didn't see my stand, his reply "What does that mean you own this place". I know its public ground and it's first come first serve so I left to try it another day. Finally I get there and set up my tree ladder to climb into my stand and sit. Nothing came in so I decided to try it again the next day. I go to climb into my stand and some S.O.B. has stolen my ladders. So I leave to go to another stand my partner has been sitting and hike about 20 minutes to get there and look up and someone is sitting in my tree stand!!! Now I'm upset! I ask the guy what is he doing in my stand and he replys "What hasn't this ever happen to you before" like it was no big deal. I always thought hunters were the last of the good guys, people who respect a person spot and go find their own. People who leave others property alone, by the way 2 years earlier we hand 2 stands and ladders taken from trees and yes they were all chained in. I will always leave a hole when I see someone is using it and respect the effort they made to set it up and go find another spot. Thanks for listening. What do you think, Is there any respect amoungst hunters any more?? Any ethics or unwritten code like the good ole days??

RuttCrazed · Sep 23, 2003

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-03 AT 07:25AM (MST)[p]Although I agree the other guy shouldn't have been sitting in your stand, I also think it is a bunch of crap when people put up stands over waterholes months before the season and believe that they own that waterhole. If this was private property then by all means you would have a gripe, but on public land the early bird gets the worm. Get up a little bit earlier and be the first guy to the waterhole and you might have a leg to stand on when someone else shows up. If you have a problem with people climbing into your stands take the ladders or steps out when you leave.

Rut

SneakAttack · Sep 23, 2003

Stick,

I'm with you on this one. I had guys watching me go into my stand location earlier this year. I quit going in, in hopes that they would find someone else to mooch off. I returned about a week before the hunt to find four wheeler tracks done to my stand. Granted, I'm not coming down four wheelers, I have one and ride the piss out of it...On approved road and trails, not 1000yds down through the Quakies!

We've had guys sitting in our stands before. Threaten to send a Judo up through the platform, or take the ladders off, I doubt he will sit your stand again. }>

StickFlinger · Sep 23, 2003

I agree with you on people setting their stands months before the hunt. I set mind up the weekend before. When I was scouting the area in July I found numberous stands already set up. But, how early are you suppose to get up to your stand? Sleep in it, stay in it all day? If someones knows you are constantly sitting your hole shouldn't you back off and fimd your own? I guess a chain and a lock isn't enough anymore to stop people. It's gets a alitte scary taking your ladders down in the dark.

sampson · Sep 23, 2003

Well said Ruttcrazed.

NMRaptor · Sep 23, 2003

I agree with Ruttcrazed. I'd say its best to pack your stand in and out every day. The person trying to "reserve" a spot on public land is the one with a lack of respect in my opinion.
-Raptor

adamsoa · Sep 24, 2003

LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-03 AT 01:43PM (MST)[p]I agree with the others. People find an area and act like they are the first ones to ever find that spot and that all of the animals in that area are theirs. Public ground is just that, public. I could have been scouting the same deer for months. Any your putting in the stand might piss me off but come opening morning the first guy there wins, weather I slept in the stand or just beat you up the hill.
I have a friend that hunted the Wasatch this fall. He has a great spot with some very good bucks. He'd been scouting all summer. He slipped and told another guy about them and pretty soon there were a million people up there. We have hunted this spot for a few years and never seen anyone. But now the hunters were there. He hiked up with more than a few other hunters opening morning and went to the main escape route for the bucks he'd been watching. There was another hunters tent there. He was upset and continued up the route. He heard some noise and saw the deer run right past the tent. Continuing up the trail he found a tree stand and a blood trail. He followed the trail a few yards and found one of the biggest bow killed deer that he has seen. The hunter was back at his tent getting ready to pack out. This was all in my friends "spot". The stand is still there a month later and my friend has even used it a couple of times. He understands that the owner of the stand can come by and ask him to get out of the stand. But that is a public area and just because you have a stand in a tree it doesnt make the whole area yours.
Just my two cents

StickFlinger · Sep 27, 2003

Listening to all of the responses I guess I've been going about it the wrong way for all this years. First thing I do is replace my stand and ladders with a new pair of bolt cutters, it will save room anyway, Find me a stand that someone didn't remove every day. Then I find a nice place to hang it in, no matter if someone is already there, I'll just arrive a couple of seconds before them. In fact I won't even look for a camp spot out of the way, I think I'll just camp next to someone who already has a nice fire pit and wood pile. Its all public ground isn't it. Boy this will save me alot of time and money and headaches. Thanks for the advice, I just hope its your stand, hole, and camp that I get to use.

c3 · Sep 27, 2003

That's some serious sour grapes there stickflinger.

What does stealing stands, bolt cutters and camping in someone elses camp site have to do with anything? Your stand being there doesn't make that water hole or tree yours only to hunt.

What you are saying is like leaving your spread of goose decoys on a bay and expecting no one else to come hunt it. I wouldn't steal them, but I bet they wouldn't last long before someone else did.

We've left bags of decoys out in the marsh and found others using them when we got there. It's pretty funny and quite awkward, but we worked it out.

Elk and deer hunting out west here is becoming just like waterfoul hunting. You have to go far and high to get away from other hunters on public land.

The mountains are getting more crowded every year. Get over it.

Cheers,
Pete

BrianID · Sep 27, 2003

I would say that the first guy there that day gets the spot. I don't think that having a stand in a place reserves your spot for you.
I wouldn't site in someone elses stand. To me that is like walking into someones house and helping your self to there fridge.

kidneystone · Sep 28, 2003

It's absolutely crazy to think you can find a spot months before the season and expect every one else to leave it alone and not hunt it because you left a stand. It should be illegal to leave stands overnight anyway.

I agree that when two people show up at the same hole opening morning there should be some give and take. But the person that scouted it earlier does not have an inherent right to it.

sampson · Sep 29, 2003

Boo Hoo Stickflinger.

crazyaboutcoues · Sep 29, 2003

Three years ago something similar happen to me. I found a wallow kinda far away from any road so I made a plan to hunt it the first evening of the hunt. When I got to the wallow about 3:00 pm. There was a guy in a tree stand over looking the wallow. At first I didn't know he was there, so I started to set up in a ground blind. When I heard a lite whistle. I looked up in discuss, my first reaction was to stay there. After about five minutes I knew the right thing to do was leave. So i did. Don't get me wrong I was pissed, but hey that just the way it goes. Anyway as luck would have it I ended up shooting a bull on my way back to the truck.

Here in NM there is a blind or tree stand in every pond, spring, tank. ect... Most of them are put in by the area outfitters. But by no means does that make it there spot. If I get there second I will leave. If i get there first I expect the same courtesy.

.02

pj31178 · Sep 29, 2003

If you have that many people going to the same stand/wallow/whatever...you are way to close to the road.

NMRaptor · Sep 30, 2003

KidneyStone and I are on the same page. Stands should be hauled in and out everyday. I'd be the first to volunteer my time to help the forest service remove stands that are unattended. They are unsightly and unless you are sitting in it, it shouldn't be there.
-Raptor

cohntr6 · Sep 30, 2003

I bit harsh on the new guy, huh! Stickflinger I would find a new place to hunt. I am not a fan of crowds or competition, sounds like you are in an area with lots of people so find another area. You are right some hunters are lacking in respect, especially the ones using your stuff. Personally I would never leave a blind or stand up for fear of someone stealing it.
Jeff

MADMAX · Oct 2, 2003

If you want to leave a stand,,,,, build one out of natural stuff on the ground or up a tree and climb up the branches, I agree the metal stands on open public ground should be yanked daily. My 2 cents worth, I met some guys this year who were working the same public ground I was for elk.
We discussed it and worked it to our advantage mutaully. they did top down or bottom up and vice versa
If you can't beat them and they are cool decent folks, join em.
again 2cents

nailman2003 · Oct 5, 2003

all you have to do is look up the definition of public it is for everones use so if you put your stand there and leave it guess what it is for everyones use when your not there how do you except to claim a tree on land to be used by you only that is not owned by you

BUGLELK · Oct 6, 2003

Just curious...where do you draw the line? I mean, if you camp on public ground, and you come back from hunting and someone is taking a nap in your tent/camper, does your argument stand? After all, you are on public ground...does that mean it is for everyone's use?

Corey

SneakAttack · Oct 7, 2003

Well put Bugle!!! Well put!

jagaines · Oct 7, 2003

Good point! I didn't get involved with this one because I can see both sides of the fence. I have never used a stand. I disagree with people especially guides that put stands up well before the hunt near water holes and think they have exclusive rights. Given the opportunity I might sit in a stand if it were there and noone was occupying it yet I would never argue to get out if the owner came up and wanted to get in it. I would out one up next to one that I seen there weeks prior just to be spiteful.

nailman2003 · Oct 7, 2003

what i should of said was if you hunt public land and leave your stands unattended be prepared and don,t be surprised if someone uses it hey buglelk do not recall anything mentioned about a tent or camper but it probably would not bother me as long as they did not drink all my beer

DEERE33 · Oct 7, 2003

THAT IS BULL, PEOPLE NEED TO RESPECT OTHER PEOPLES (PROPERTY), A GROUND BLIND OR A BLIND THAT IS BUILT ON PUBLIC LAND IS PUBLIC, IF SOMEONE PLACES A TREE STAND IN A TREE WEEKS BEFORE THE SEASON AND EXPECTS NODODY TO HUNT THAT SPOT THEY BETTER BE THERE FIRST DURING THE HUNT, BUT I DO NOT THINK IT IS RIGHT TO USE THEIR STAND, AND IF I FOUND SOMEBODY IN MY CAMP/TENT OR WHATEVER I WOULD TREAT IT AS TRESPASSING. WHEN PEOPLE ARE HUNTING/CAMPING, THE CAMPSITE IS THEIRS AND SHOULD BE RESPECTED.

NV4x4 · Oct 8, 2003

I think the right way to go about this is whoever gets there first everyday is the one who has the right to hunt the hole that day. If you want to get there at 4AM to claim it fine. If the next guy wants it more than he should get there at 3. Even though I would not like to see a stand where I'm hunting I still think you should respect it as private property. If you want to put your stand in the next tree, fine, just get there before the next guy.

I remember in PA for opening day of trout season every year, people would get up earlier and earlier to claim a good hole since the season always started at 8AM and it always was a pissing match when someone sat down beside them at 7:59 to fish the same hole. It boils down to respecting everyones space and the ultimate question you have to ask yourself is it really worth the headache?

huntsonora · Oct 9, 2003

Yet another arguement for a draw on the early season bow hunts. Its a damn zoo in the Kaibab and I for one would expect to have disaster stories like that. Given the trend over the years I think nobody should be surprised that these things happen.

Drummond

DEERE33 · Oct 11, 2003

I WOULD NOT WANT A DRAW ON THE ARCHERY SEASON, EXCEPT FOR KAIBAB, FOR SOME IT MIGHT BE YOUR ONLY CHANCE TO HUNT DEER IN A GIVEN YEAR. AS FOR FINDING SOMEBODY SITTING IN YOUR STAND, THE MORE I THINK ABOUT THE MORE IT BOTHERS ME, I WOULD BE TICKED OFF, IT WOULD NOT BOTHER ME THAT THEY GOT THERE FIRST BECAUSE I COULD GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, BUT TO USE YOUR PROPERTY THAT IS JUST WRONG, HOW MANY TIMES WHEN YOU ARE HUNTING DO YOU COME ACROSS A VEHICLE OR QUAD THAT SOMEONE HAS LEFT, THERE MAY EVEN BE KEYS IN THEM, DO YOU TAKE THAT TO, SOMEBODY LEFT IT AND THEY ARE NOT USING IT, IT IS ON PUBLIC LAND, NO YOU DON'T, WHY BECAUSE IT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU.
GOOD HUNTING AND GOOD LUCK TO ALL

quickdrawkinker · Oct 17, 2003

I agree with you Crazyaboutcoues, public land is just that--whether we like it or not there are going to be other hunters hunting the same area as you that have probably scouted the same deer as you. In my opinion the early bird gets the worm. If you get to "your" spot and somebody else is already there give them the common courtesy and go to your plan B. If someone is in your stand that's where I draw the line--knock there ass in the dirt!!

pilgrim · Oct 23, 2003

stickflinger,I appreciate your frustration,maybe a good lightweight climber would be the best solution to your situation. I don't currently live in the great west, but in the very small east. I did live in Arizona for seventeen years and even once got lucky enough to draw a Kaibab rifle tag.Anyway, here where I live now when someone puts up a stand close to another we call it shortstanding. Generally people are pretty respectful of someones stand, and hardly anyone leaves a portable up on public land any length of time unless they are there everyday. You might want to consider one of the new ol man carbon climbers. they are very light for a climber but are a litte expensive. And for everyone that reads this, please wear a safety belt,everytime up and down the tree.I work in an emergency dept. and have seen several severe and crippling injuries from falls.