An End to Outrageous Non-Resident Fees?

This is proposal is total garbage and a complete waste of our politians time!!!!
 
I won't go so far as to call it garbage, however I do believe that there are and will be many unforeseen consequences of such a bill.
to start most western states residence tags and license will double at least. possibly more.
I can see many then going to a system like AK or WY... Where a guide is mandatory for many areas or species.
I also see land owners getting very ticked off and saying no more free access.
I wonder how it will impact access yes or block mgt programs.
Not sure how much impact is will have on western states, but is is going to change hunting for sure.
 
I think it's a good idea. Can limit the number of tags to non residents. Some states only offer 3%. I think it should be 10-20%. 200 dollars to hunt federal land every where, all states, is fine with me. Not sure if it would ever work. In Utah it cost $280.00 for a res limited entry elk tag. Well worth the price, however. What about sheep tags? I doubt it will pass. I know one thing. Hunting is getting to be a rich mans sport. Bad for the future IMO.
 
Springbear,

Why would land owners get "ticked off" because Non-Resident hunters pay $200 to hunt Elk instead of $800?
 
I agree with Bulzeye. The unforseen consequences are scary, hopefully this won't pass. Let the states manage their wildlife, no federal intervention. Remember the whole interstate commerce with AZ? What a mess. The wildlife needs to be managed very specific in different units, in different states, etc., and tag fees should reflect the variations and cannot be taken as a whole on federal land. The game is property of the state and the wildlife divisions, not the federal government. I feel that too much federal tampering will hurt our sport more than we think, and open a HUGE can of worms. I agree that it would be nice if prices were the same from state to state or limited, but I don't think that is realistic and in the best interest of game management and our sport. Just my 2 cents.
 
Doubt we need to worry about this becoming law.
A republican congressman proposing a law in a democratic congress, plus it would need to pass both houses and be signed by the president.
by the time it got this far, every state would be lobbying against it and it would be dead.
I Think?
Stranger things have happened!
 
Though I don't agree with outrageous prices, the fact remains that the state manages the wildlife while the feds manage the land.
 
sounds to me like uso found another lacky in another state to try and pull fast one, again.
 
USO doesn't care about NR fees-their clients have plenty of money. They just want an increased quota. Now, if they could force Arizona (and all other western states) to issue "conservation" tags like Utah does, then that would work to their benefit. I think USO goes by SFW in Utah (ok, just trying to be a bit over provocative now - probably should not have said that).
 
I didn't read it that way, I thought Rep. Hunter was being called a lacky. Please clarify so I know if I should be offended or not. :D :D :D
 
I've got it. The feds tell the states they can't charge more than $200 for a non-resident tag for use on federal land. so the state tells the non-resident hunter he can't kill any of the animals that are managed and owned by the state, even if on federal land, with that tag. problem solved.

Here in Nevada we have a good example of how the feds and state work together. On the Sheldon National Wildlife Range, the feds set policy on land use (roads, off road atv use, camping restrictions) you must camp in an established campground. Then the state manages the wildlife. The state sets season dates, tag quotas etc. When something works, don't mess with it.
 
What is public land? BLM land? Forest? State land? County land? State Wildlife Areas?

What's next? Limiting what can be charged to hunt private land?

Colorado's fees are a bargain for out-of-state hunters.

Another dim-witted idea from California...
 
For a moment, let me put on my devil hat....

Since states have the right to regulate hunting as they wish, I propose that "resident" hunting be restricted to the county where the hunter resides. If you choose to hunt another county, you must buy a non-resident permit. Any problem with that? I always hated the SLC crowd that came out to hunt in OUR Uintah mountains. They should stick to Salt Lake County, or pony up extra fees.
 
well the states that have nonresident licenses that are $150 like AZ,ID,Nv will just make $50 more...

and in the others they will just raise the tag price
 
If this passes then the F&G's are going to have to make up the money somewhere. And most likely it will come out of my pocket in the form of higher tag and license fees. I believe that anytime the feds start telling the states how much they can charge for anything it is a bad deal. Also as already stated the federal lands are a checkerboard mixed with private and state lands. It is a bad idea with good intentions.
 
What a waste of time. The courts have already delegated wildlife management to the states.

What would they do, have a state draw and fed draw? If that happened, I would tell the feds they were responsible for policing everything on Fed land now, at THEIR expense. That would stop it dead in it's tracks.
 
oh no its elkmaster101,
I'm back.
Yes its been a long dry spell but here goes.
no i did't go to gramer school and learn how to spell while i was gone either.
i feel there would be a lot more money in the kitty if the state would lower the price and suck in nor out of state hunters in.
shoot its not going to increase their precentages any.
is it smarter to charge 500 bucks per lic. and get 5000 hunters or charge 250 bucks and get 30,000 hunters.
with the same odds.
not only does the state make more money but hte local goverments and comunities rake in the dollars.
you sell more goods all around.
lets vote on dropping the lic. costs.
locals should get to hunt free on privet grounds and 15 bucks for public areas.
I'm not saying that every tree huger needs to voice their opion but get real.
its like gas, ond globle warming
their lieing out there a--holes and there is any thing we can do about it other than boycot.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-07 AT 08:32AM (MST)[p]It's a horrible idea plain and simple. To Mr Dumcan Hunter, I offer this: It will open the doors for more lawsuits that the states can hardly afford. The fact that it was proposed by a liberal in California where they offer little to no nonresident hunting speaks volumes. It's easy to sit back and legislate opportunity when your not the one giving any of it up! Hell if you would had managed wildlife properly in your own state you would still have many more opportunites than you do today but you let the liberals end quite a bit of the hunting for you at home. No thanks the last person that should be telling any of the states how they need to be managing their wildlife is some smuck from California!! Isn't California the capitol of the free enterprise system? I'm sorry that our tag fees are cutting into your bank accounts MR. Dumcan Hunter, so that you can't go forth and have more disposible income to inflate home values while you guys are expanding your personal real estate investment porfolios. But that's life Skippy so deal with it.

You want to talk about something that impacts the average guy why not legislate something to protect median income borrowers from the inflation outside investors are making to your bordering states markets. You guys have come into many states and driven the prices so high that resident's will not be able to afford homes. Now there's something that's worthwhile and is really worth legislating a bit. Besides that tag fee is chump change compared to one of your investment payments or the higher rents you charge in an inflated market. But I don't see you standing up taking on a cause like that because that would really impact those high dollar contributions to your campaign you really seek!
 
>oh no its elkmaster101,
> I'm back.
> Yes its been a long
>dry spell but here goes.
>
>no i did't go to gramer
>school and learn how to
>spell while i was gone
>either.
> i feel there would be
>a lot more money in
>the kitty if the state
>would lower the price and
>suck in nor out of
>state hunters in.
> shoot its not going to
>increase their precentages any.
> is it smarter to charge
>500 bucks per lic. and
>get 5000 hunters or charge
>250 bucks and get 30,000
>hunters.
>with the same odds.
> not only does the state
>make more money but hte
>local goverments and comunities rake
>in the dollars.
> you sell more goods all
>around.
>lets vote on dropping the lic.
>costs.
>locals should get to hunt free
>on privet grounds and 15
>bucks for public areas.
> I'm not saying that every
>tree huger needs to voice
>their opion but get real.
>
>its like gas, ond globle warming
>
> their lieing out there a--holes
>and there is any thing
>we can do about it
>other than boycot.
>

Most western states have limited tags available, so they have no room to "suck in" out of state hunters without taking away in-state hunters.
 
What's next out of California? Communism? Socialism?

I vote California becomes it's own country. Too much of a control freak for me!

Is there a law in California that says you can only wipe your a$$ with your left hand? If not, I'll bet there will be soon because it looks like they are running out of stupid ideas for new laws!!! Oh sorry, they'll NEVER run out of stupid ideas!


"WIndage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
 
The law will backfire, as it says that states should only be able to have authority over private property, yet the other law lets states consider wildlife private property. The state owns the wildlife, therefore they can do what they want with it.







It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I already emailed my congressional representatives asking them to oppose such a bill. The last thing we need is another a-hole from California trying to impose their liberalistic views on the rest of us and further erode states rights...
 
>
>Colorado's fees are a bargain for
>out-of-state hunters.
>
>

A bargain at 480 dollars ? I don't think so.
 
I don't much care what the states charge.

I am piszed off about WY restrciting access to federal wilderness if you don't hire a guide. I can do any other activity in the world there I care for, but carry a gun and hunt and I have to subsidize a guide.
 
I doubt this bill will go anywhere. I think most people in congress will look at it as Federal control vs. State rights. Congress made it clear they favor state rights over federal control of wildlife when they passed legislation for state control over nonresident quotas.
 
I'm all for doing something about ripping off nonresdents to hunt federal land!!! It's wrong to charge a nonresident 10x what a resident pays on federal land. Everybody pays for federal land regardless of where you live. Just my opinion.
 
I agree 100%. Why should I pay more to hunt federal lands? Split the ratio to help the residents, come up with the number of tags you want to sell and charge the same.
 
You pay more to hunt state owned property on federal lands. You have every other right to do as you please on federal lands, including hunting, however, not with a weapon. The only restriction you have on your federal lands is you cannot shoot a state owned animal without paying for it. This whole arguement about the lands belonging to everybody so the animals should to just doesn't fly.






It's Bush's fault!!!
 
It should fly. I understand what the states are doing but it is BS. Are you saying you are paying more federal taxes than I am?

You have every other right to do as you please on federal lands, including hunting, however, not with a weapon.

How do you hunt without a weapon unless you're looking for sheds ???????
 
You can hunt with a camera. No I am not paying more federal taxes than you, but that shouldn't matter. Again, it comes down to state owned property. I know some non-residents pay for years to get a tag, but they are not here locally doing clean ups, volunteering, etc. to get things done that benefit their local wildlife. Residents pay for a lot of stuff that goes on in their home state (not just hunting), so they should get a benefit. Its the same as in-state out-of-state college tuition. Unless of course your illegal, then wherever you go or whatever you do you get to pay resident fees!!!






It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Ever notice how the guys who live in the states with crappy hunting are the ones that whine about non-resident fees the loudest(don't blame them a bit!)?While I do sympathize with your plight,maybe you guys should put some pressure on your G&F depts to make your hunting better instead of whining about how much it costs to go hunt in a better state!!I chose to live in Wyo because I can hunt deer and elk every year on a general license(and I don't hunt in the wilderness).One thing about the good old USA is you can MOVE anywhere you want to!This legislation is rubbish,and should be thrown on the same trash heap that the illegal immigration bill landed on!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-13-07 AT 04:17PM (MST)[p]If this passed, states like Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico etc would quickly raise resident fees $100 or more per tag to off-set the money lost in revenues for out of state gouging.

Yes, you see non-residents have paid the bill for a very large part of what western states have done with their wildlife. Like it or not, that is true.

This bill passes, and the huge cash cow of non-res revenue is stopped, and the Game and Fish commissions will be forced to raise resident prices triple to compensate.

Wow, think about that. Who would be crying then ?

Don't bash a non-resident hunter unless you as a resident are willing to pony up $250-350 for your deer, elk and fishing license every year yourself. Hate nonresidents but love their money, I've seen that so much in my life already at 38 years old that it sickens me.
 
Brad , It's an recreational opportunity just like any other vacation and that's exactly how any states fish and game views hunting. A guy can very easily afford to go out of state on a DIY deer hunt today. The issue is that everyone wants a elk or some other type of premium game animal and there in lies the problem.

You're 38 if you guys planted 200 -300 elk in your state and let them reproduce for 10 years and fund a project like all the western states had too you'd have the basis for some good opportunity on down the line. Things are drying up out here and there's not as much hunting opportunity as there used to be and the demand far exceeds the supply. The only way you guys are going to get a better priced opportunity is to make your own. It's a free enterprise system and the states have em lined up for 10 years now waiting to get a tag at market price. The only solution is to create your own resource like many states are doing. All the rest of it is pie in the sky plain and simple.

The states own the animals and there have been hundreds of lawsuits that support that point and federal law supports it. We really didn't have many elk here at all in the 60's and we only have a few compared to Colorado. So you can do the same thing in your state. If not you'll have to pay what the market can bear. Is it right yes and no depending on where you live remember this thousands of residents sit and wait for tags that are being used by nonresidents every single year and some of them have never had a tag in the state in which they live.By the way most western states could make it w/o the nonresident tag fees even in todays world because they have many other income streams that develop revenue. I know you may not want to believe it, and yes they more than likely would have to curtail some programs but they'd survive. We in AZ have less than 1/2 the permits that we used to offer for some species 10 years ago because of the drought and are still in business.
 
sremin - hunt with a camera ? Give me a break. The fees that I pay to hunt in other states pays for more than my tag. How about the rest of the money I spend while I'm in your state ? Residents do get the bevefit. Many more tags.
 
nontypical - Crappy hunting in my home state. How the F*** would you know. The hunting is awesome here ass. You chose to live in WY or were you born and raised there ? I choose to live here close to my family and won't move west just to hunt. I don't know anything about the bill and don't like too much government involvement in the first place. All I'm saying is it would be nice to not get raped when hunting another state.
 
Boskee - Why would I hunt whitetails in MT when I can hunt them here ? Of course hunters like the opportunity to hunt a species that they don't have at home. Elk hunting is awesome.

Planting elk in my state is talked about every year. That will not happen in my lifetime and it doesn't really make sense.

I understand your last paragraph but does that make it right ? If there were no nonresidents hunting in your state your license fees would go through the roof in order to maintain all of your programs.
 
If it passed the states would just make it up with raiseing the licence fees way up for non ress!Would just be a money shift.
 
Some of these responses tell you why the residents here for the most part figure NR are just a bunch of whiners that are PO'd because they can't force their will on the people here. We volunteered to have higher resident fees during the USO mess to keep NR tags lower. G&F was out of money boys and they don't get any from the state tax system and the bald eagles and wolves suck a bunch out every year. With only 35000 elk and 17000 tags every year you can figure that with a 10% NR limit we could easily make up the difference in money if we decided to lock all NR hunters out of Arizona. Big freakin' deal. You don't think we would pay $500 for an elk tag when it takes a local 5-7 years to draw one? My opinion is you are all welcome to come here and hunt and you should be grateful for that opportunity and stop whining like some rude guest who has worn out their welcome.
 
Glen - Whining ? I don't think so. I just said it sucks to pay 10 times what you pay to hunt public land. I only wish you had to pay.
 
Boskee - a recreational opportunity thats almost entirely on Federal Land, not state.

Arkansas has a nice elk herd, but hot southern states with limited federal lands that isn't good elk habitat anyway means we'll never havea 300,000 head elk herd.

Colorado has that, because of Federal lands.

You're ignoring the fact that Federal Lands are what makes the western states hunting what it is. Sure, the G&F have done great jobs using non-res money etc to build the elk herds, the deer herds, the antelope etc, but without those tens of millions of acres of federal land ? Well, it would be a lot like Texas, where you as a resident would have to pay thousands just for a PLACE to hunt.


Big difference isn't it ?


Look, fact is, non-resident license and tags is a huge cash cow for state game and fish in western states. Nonresidents FUND western state G&F commissions. If for just one year that money was not there ? Every western state's G&F would crumble, go bankrupt and shatter into a million splinters.

If this bill passed, you would see a couple of things I think.

#1 resident fees would sky rocket to counter the loss in non-res income. If you, as a resident, don't mind $200 deer and elk licnese, thank a non-resident.

#2 non-resident allocations would go down. Why ? The cash cow os high priced tags would be regulated.


I don't know what a fair system is. I feel as a non-resident that I should be able to take my son to a national forest in Colorado and hunt it without taking a second mortgage to do so. Residents of Colorado don't do anything more than I do to make those lands available, and truth be known, they do LESS because of my non-res fees funding the G&F that oversees the animals.

Now I also see the resident view, they live there 365 days a year. I lived in Colorado several years. But you know what ? Living there don't mean the animals are yours, and it don't mean the land is yours, and it doesn't mean non-residents should be given more tags either.

Where is the compromise then ? Where is the meet point ? I don't know - but I do know a $35 resident tag for the same opportunity on the same public lands a non-res pays $550 for ? That shouldn't be.

A great analogy would be you coming to my state, and whereas I pay $3 a gallon for gas ? You have to pay $45 a gallon. Same gas used for the same purpose, but you pay 15 times more for it.

Unfair ? Damn straight it is.
 
Brad - you must sound like you're whining too. I don't see what is so hard for these folks to understand.
 
"A great analogy would be you coming to my state, and whereas I pay $3 a gallon for gas ? You have to pay $45 a gallon. Same gas used for the same purpose, but you pay 15 times more for it.

Unfair ? Damn straight it is."

Your missing the point. The state does not own the gas. So no, it is not a great analogy. Use your federal lands all you want in any state, just don't take state owned property without paying for it. Thats the bottom line.








It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Not only whiners but not too bright to boot. You pay $595.00 for an elk tag in AZ. We pay $121.50. You pay $151.25 for a license and we pay $32.25. We own the animals and help them to flourish on our land and your land. You get 10% of 17000 tags. 1700 times the difference in tag and license fees is $1007250.00 each year for elk. $1007250 divided by 17000 tags is $59.25 per tag more to dump your whiney butts. You are geting an outstanding value here by paying only $592.50 more than the residents of the state. You are welcome here and I suggest you quit complaining and start coming out to work on some G&F projects to help the resource.
 
thats great that we get 10 % of the tags and cover 33% of the revenue in license sales. Sounds like we NR are doing our fair share to help your G&F projects. Thanks for making everyone feel so welcome in coming to Arizona. I only wish you owned a local business frequented by hunters. I would love to hang a couple of your idiotic posts at your business. See how long you'd keep your customers. Then maybe you'd appreciate our hard earned money being spent. It is a lot more than license money. I'm sure the local businesses would appreciate your assinine comments.
 
So just as we all figured this is over the allocation of tags and not so much that you can't afford one. I do own a local business and you can show all the garbage you want to my customers. I said you are welcome here but you have to play by our rules just like when you were in gradeschool. Hey, this is just my opinion and maybe all the rest of the people who live in the west would love to hear your griping. Just get your facts straight about you carrying the big load for the west on G&F expenses because as I proved replacing you is a simple matter.
 
Brad, I think Glenn example points out just how easily we could get by without your higher tag fees. You may want to take it to heart. It's recreational opportunity plain and simple and I don't complain about having to pay higher costs when I go out of state to hunt or do I lobby to get the rates reduced at Disneyland. The only solution is to grow more game. I know it's not feasible to do so in your state so just why is it we need to carry you because your state & you chose not to cultivate the resource? I think you're the one that really needs to wake up and realize it's not the western states resposibility to subsidize hunting for the rest of the states. We offer it to you and the price is established by the free market system the same way thousands of commodities are priced across the country. It's really quite simple items like gas, copper, chickens, pork, beef, iron, cars, food, if you want it you just have to pay for it. All those items are extracted, manufactured, raised or built on federal, state, or private land and we as consumers have to pay for them. Just because they use federal land to raise them or mine, or drill them doesn't entail any of us to a discount we all pay fair market price. The fact that elk, sheep, goats, and antelope are more rare than any of those other items results in a higher price because the demand far exceeds the supply. I doubt you'd have much luck getting a discount on any of these items because they were on federal land because the use fees were paid by other entities prior to being offered to you as a consumer and it's built into the price. It's the price you pay if you want to go here or I pay if I go someplace else.
 
you are such an arrogant a**hole. It's more than the license fee that we contribute jackass. Whats the name of your business so we can all stay away ? We do carry and cover a large load tard and replacing us would be easy if you want to pay more, lose jobs and hurt your economy.

This is about the cost of NR vs Res tags. Yes, I can afford one but the differential doesn't make it right. Is that spelled out easy enough for you to understand ?
 
Nobody has mentioned that as residents we contribute every day in taxes everything that keeps the state functioning.

Game Depts
State Police
Hospitals


SO when NR pay there share of state taxes that fund these then they can have the tags for the same as residents. Until then. Complain somewhere else.
 
So Boskee, should you pay more to go to Disney World because you don't live in FL ?

"It's really quite simple items like gas, copper, chickens, pork, beef, iron, cars, food, if you want it you just have to pay for it."

Do you pay more for a car because you don't live in Detroit ? Do you pay more for gas in CO because you aren't from that state?

The real problem is your state can screw us because they can. It doesn't make it right. Don't you get it yet ?
 
30inch - we do. It's all in the price that you screw us with. Knock the price down to your price and charge me 5 days worth of taxes being in your state. Much cheaper that way. Thank you. propose it for me.
 
FD, I think it has been spelled out very clearly and it's you that's having the issue with the uptake. You are welcome to come and hunt if you draw a tag but it's time that you guys understand it's not our place to subsidize your hunting because you don't have the resource. We have to pay the going rate anywhere else and we don't complain, because if you lived here you'd understand we go long periods of time w/o being drawn.So most of us do hunt out of state and ante up. So take a deep breath and suck it up just like the rest of us have too. Other wise you do have a cheaper alternative right there where you live!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-07 AT 09:49AM (MST)[p]FD the answer to you question about the auto is YES we have to pay to have them shipped here sothey cost more than in Detroit! Our gas prices are usually some of the highest in the nation. We have to pay to manage those animals for years and you just want to come in here and pay 5 days taxes and our tag fee and hunt. Boy you really want to jump out there and pay your fair share to grow that animal don't you? The only option you have with your line of thinking is stay home that way you've paid your fair share and you won't be paying anything more than you have too. Enjoy your deer hunt!

I suppose we could petition the department for a special 5 day plan like you suggested but then you'll have to accept a calf but I'll caution you he really won't be very big but you'll get your 5 days worth!
 
you think being an outfitter you wouldn't mind it being a little less expensive for the tags. Maybe you would get more business that way. I can afford the tag but because of that cost can't afford your services, so I do it myself. Start thinking in the bigger picture.
 
fd, I am having a hard time believing you are serious, you must be just trying to fire folks up. While I have no issue with someone coming to Utah and buying a tag, I do have issues with those who want a handout. It is the locals that improve the habitat, have wildlife live part of the year on OUR land, make the management choices to make our wildlife desirable for YOU to want to pay whatever WE choose to charge. If Utah upped the tag price for next year by double, EVERY non-res LE tag would still be sold. That tells me our prices are NOT too high. Now to have a pinhead in DC tell states what to charge for a hunting license will accomplish NOTHING, all the state will do is INCREASE the amount for an elk permit. In Idaho you buy a license and then your deer/elk tag on top of that. So, if this proposed bill gets thru and Utah can only charge $200.00 for a tag, you can bet your a$$ you will see a permit required that will be higher than what you pay now, because of lost matching funds from the fed gov. So, go ahead and push big government control onto states, like the wise saying goes, "Be careful what you ask for, you may just get it."

PRO
 
the tax thing is from 30 inch. He thought that would be fair.

You still don't get it. It's not fair. It's a royal f***ing. What does your state say as to why they charge us more ?
 
I am sure that the west's economy won't collapse if a handful of flatlanders refuse to shop here. You are hurting my feelings with all the name calling.
 
>the tax thing is from 30
>inch. He thought that would
>be fair.
>
>You still don't get it. It's
>not fair. It's a royal
>f***ing. What does your state
>say as to why they
>charge us more ?


Because they CAN!

PRO
 
Pro - I am being serious. I did state in an earlier email that I am not for the governments involvement. I understand you would still sell every LE tag even if the price doubled. Does that make it right ? All you do is shut out the people that hunt and can't afford those big fee's. In my opinion it is still not right to charge me that much more to hunt federal lands. I am by no means looking for a handout.

" It is the locals that improve the habitat, have wildlife live part of the year on OUR land, make the management choices to make our wildlife desirable for YOU to want to pay whatever WE choose to charge. "

Maybe no one should visit your state to hunt or help your business with the above attitude. Howe much of your business is from NR Pro ?
 
"In my opinion it is still not right to charge me that much more to hunt federal lands."

Yet again, it is STATE owned property. I guess since its federal land we should just abolish all state boundaries that are on federal land. After all, everybody in the country owns it, so I guess we can't have states have any control over it. Then we can all do what we please where we please for however much we please.

fd,
Do you come out here and volunteer to clean up trash? Do you help repair fences? Do you help rebuild/fix tanks? Do you do anything other than pay for a tag? That is another thing you need to consider. There is much more to managing wildlife than recieving NR fees. NR fees are not the savior of state G&F departments and wildlife management.









It's Bush's fault!!!
 
fdhunter wrote:

"Maybe no one should visit your state to hunt or help your business with the above attitude. Howe much of your business is from NR Pro ?"

Almost all my 'business' is from NR's, so what is your point?

Like I said, I have no problem with NR hunters, just don't expect to pay what a resident who invests money/time/sweat year after year to the animals we hunt. I hunt out of state, and if I don't like the cost to hunt in a state, get this, I DON'T HUNT THERE. Problem solved.

Of all the great hunting available in states like Arizona and Utah, how much have YOU contributed to making our elk world class? Have you been in the trenches pushing thru management practices that improve quality? Have you been out putting in tanks and guzzlers for dry periods? Have you been out reseeding burnt areas? Have you been out working w/landowners for easements to keep critical habitat from being developed? If you can honestly say yes to ALL these questions, then I will say you DESERVE to pay what I pay for a tag.

PRO
 
Scott - No I don't. I do spend my money though while I'm there. Go ahead and propose no more NR hunters to CO and AZ. Your F&G departs will suffer miserably as will all other businesses that support hunters,( Motels, grocery stores, bars, gas stations, taxidermists, meat processors etc...)

Hello - get it ?

We should stick together for our common cause. What does it hurt to charge us a fair fee ?
 
Pro - No to all of the above. But really think what you are asking. Do you really expect any NR to do any of these things. Isn't the fee YOU charge us NR hunters enough ?

Almost all my 'business' is from NR's, so what is your point?

Are you serious? Throw us NR hunters out of your state and you'll see my point. You might need to get another line of work.

Wouldn't you like more business? Maybe I could afford your service if I wasn't already getting screwed enough.
 
FD actually they don't say too much. Since we were that best bargain in hunting 2 years ago and before and people were still complaining it will never stop. Like I said you do have an alternative and you will be paying just what you like it's just at home. It's your choice either way. You're welcome if you get drawn but you'll have to pay just like we do when we go out of state.
 
whining ? yep - I've given western states thousands and thousands of dollars, my money combined with other non-res pays for the great hunting ya'll have.


gleninaz - how about you and I pay the same for hunting the land that in Arizona is mine and your equally ? You know as well as I do that AZ residents don't pay for that land thats national forest, and the G&F ? Funded in large part by non-resident money and federal dollars.

I'd LOVE to see all non-res hunting stopped for one year. Your meat processing plants, taxidermists, small town gas stations, hotels, restraunts, sporting good stores ...... they'd wither and die without non-res hunting money. The AZ G&F ? Like CO, WY, UT etc would go bankrupt

You don't realize the impact of non-resident money do you gleninaz ?

As for your playful punches, whatever. Bottom line is my non-res money runs your AZ G&F.




********* Nobody has mentioned that as residents we contribute every day in taxes everything that keeps the state functioning. *********

Sure I recognize that ........ but what does that have to do with tourism ? What does that have to do with national forest land and federal property ? Do you pay vastly more as a non-resident for ANY state run/owned entity other than hunting and fishing ?



Boskee - tell me, what % of your states income comes from non-res license ?

Look it up, come back and then tell me how unimportant non-res money is
 
fdhuunter wrote:

"Pro - No to all of the above. But really think what you are asking. Do you really expect any NR to do any of these things. Isn't the fee YOU charge us NR hunters enough ?
Almost all my 'business' is from NR's, so what is your point?

Are you serious? Throw us NR hunters out of your state and you'll see my point. You might need to get another line of work.

Wouldn't you like more business? Maybe I could afford your service if I wasn't already getting screwed enough."

You missed my point AGAIN. I am saying BECAUSE you answered no to "all of the above", you get to pay more to hunt here than I, who can answer yes to "all of the above". Why should I be doing the 'dirty' work and pay the same as you? Nonsensical.

Who ever suggested throwing out the NR's in Utah? It sure was not me.

I turn down business now, I don't think you could ever afford what I would charge YOU to be guided by ME. Money only goes so far, I have to take a stand on princibles somewhere(wink).

Brad, you are not reading alot of what is being said, you don't just pay for the right to hunt on federal land, you pay for the right to kill a STATE owned animal. Hunting is NOT tourism.

PRO
 
"Do you really expect any NR to do any of these things. Isn't the fee YOU charge us NR hunters enough ?"


fd,
That is why you are charged more. Because nobody can realistically expect a NR to do that stuff. Therefore you can make up for it by paying a higher fee. What would you consider a fair fee for a NR?

"I'd LOVE to see all non-res hunting stopped for one year. Your meat processing plants, taxidermists, small town gas stations, hotels, restraunts, sporting good stores ...... they'd wither and die without non-res hunting money"

I highly doubt that. You don't think residents take their meat to the processor? or their trophy to the taxidermy? There are very few small town gas stations and hotels in AZ that rely on hunters to make or break their business every year.






It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Pro - without us NR hunters you have nothing. You said all of your business is from us. Without us you are nothing. Got it ? You should be a little more respectful when you speak about us NR guys.

Let me explain something to you. I need no guidance on where to go or how to kill an elk. Or how to pack, field dress or process. I hunt public land and do it myself. You can take the other guys that need the help with the big check books.

Does Disney World expect you to pick up trash, fix rides, sweep their parking lot ? Gee, they don't and they still charge us all the same. How about that.

You western states F us because you can. You have us by the short hairs and your problem is that YOU like it. Thanks. Only in America.
 
what I consider fair is paying the same price. We are aalready at a disadvantage of getting an opportunity. I'm not bitching about residents getting 90 % of the tags. Thats fine, you live there.

Maybe whats really fair is 50 % of the tags and the same price. After all it is federal land that I pay taxes for.
 
I don't understand why you non- residents are complaining. You spend a lot more on outfitters than a tag. Why don't you cry to the outfitters. They are screwing you much more than the states.

It's people like you all who are ruining hunting.
 
You know Brad I think you're a smart guy. well then why would you want to contribute to the problem but yet not become part of the solution? You want to hunt all these states and impact the resource but yet you seem to not want to assist in the growing of the resource. The only solution to this problem lies in the fact that we need more game. I'll guarantee you this you find a solution to that issue and the fees will become more reasonable. Until then the market drives the price and that will never change and when the nonresidents start to complain too loudly at some point the states will step in an offer more of the tags to the residents. This could happen in the blink of an eye and it really won't impact the hundreds of thousands of tourists that come here in the winter to escape the cold and spend their money. Yes the money is part of the equation Brad but comparitively it's very small potatoes. Would the residents go for a tag increase to be able to get more opportunity to hunt? You bet, they'd couldn't get their wallets open fast enough. That fact is probably something you were unaware of. You see Brad most of them have never had an elk tag so the demand is still there every single day.

Brad the White Mountain Apache's charge $17,000 for Elk tags and there's a 3-5 year wait! It's only money and while you and I may not be able to play the game at that level there are thousands who can and do. When you have them lining the streets thousands deep to get a tag at these prices there's no need to reduce the price to anyone.

Remember this is one of the reasons the Reid bill was passed was to stop all the nonresidents from telling the states just how they need to allocate and manage their tags and their resources. We aren't telling you guys how to manage your animals but yet you seem intent on managing our affairs from afar.............. Don't get me wrong I want to see tags for nonresidents but I don't set the prices any more than you do but I know I have to pay to play where ever that is and i'm grateful for the opportunity while it lasts.
 
"Does Disney World expect you to pick up trash, fix rides, sweep their parking lot ? Gee, they don't and they still charge us all the same. How about that."

You keep comparing private business with government, thats like comparing apples to oranges. And as a matter of fact, I have seen places like Disneyland offer discounts to local residents. How about that?

Also, it has nothing to do with federal land. Yes you pay taxes on it, therefore you can use it. Do anything you want for the same price, as long as it doesn't involve taking state property. Have you ever noticed that on some of the federal land that charges fees such as NRA's, NP's, etc. everybody pays the same? Its because everybody owns the land and is using it for the same purposes; to benefit off your federally owned land.








It's Bush's fault!!!
 
We get screwed by youstate. It's your state's governments fault and you as hunters fault. You like it, we get screwed. You have nice animals, we pay for your programs.

"Welcome Hunters" Make sure you drop your drawers while you're here because we're going to give it to you real good! Yee haw !
 
I'm all for eliminating non-residents from hunting anything in Colorado. Why would I care? There would be fewer hunters for me to deal with and less poaching and game violations which means fewer DOW personnel. You think I really care if some motel owner in Craig Colorado makes a bunch of money? Do you chew his butt because he charges $30-$50 more for his motel room during hunting season?

You non-residents are griping about $200...remember, you are goning to have to pay more so what you are really talking about is the difference between the fee now and what it used to be.

Colorado charges a fee for a bull elk that is comensurate with other states that have elk hunting. If you don't like it, go elsewhere...

And a cow tag is $240 or so I think...so put your ego away and go elk hunting for a cow...then go pick up some sheds in the spring to satisfy your manly urge for antlers...

and by the way, for those who are griping, please tell me what species I can hunt in your State and pay the same fee as you do...then maybe I'll be able to understand your point...
 
Fd and Brad, you are both perfect examples of the kind of customers a business does not need. I pick who we deal with very carefully and am the first to say no to someone who I feel will be a high maintenance pain in the butt. You are correct we do not want or need either of you darkening our doors like the unwanted guest. Most of the NR hunters who come here can afford the tags, do not complain and often share a free beer at our campsites. You two are living proof that there is no IQ test for the internet. Have a good fall hunt. I will be sticking a big bull just 2 hours from my house.
 
proutdoors -

http://stateparks.utah.gov/parks/anasazi/

$3 for admission

Tell me why this state owned attraction is same fee for residents and non-residents alike.

gleninaz - http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/index.shtml

same fees for resident and non-res, but totally state owned.

Why ?

I can give many more links to state owned attractions, parks, events etc ...... all at same cost to resident and non-resident.

only fish and wildlife varies greatly - that I can find

WHY ?




Boskee - good gawd, I've hunted Colorado for some 12-15 years, at $250 to $550 a tag each year ...... you total that up and tell me I'm not contributing ! Not including small game license, the $1000 a year I put into the states economy etc !

Don't tell me I don't contribute, non-residents PAY for western G&F commissions - the very commissions that have done great things with western states wildlife - the same wildlife you hunt, call your own, enjoy etc all funded in large part by non-res money.

" when the nonresidents start to complain too loudly at some point the states will step in an offer more of the tags to the residents. "


no- they can't. They cannot and they will not because of one thing - MONEY


Outfitters have huge influence in G&F and the G&F know without non-res money, they're doomed. Its a cash cow that totals hundreds of millions - do you really not know this ?


" Would the residents go for a tag increase to be able to get more opportunity to hunt? You bet, they'd couldn't get their wallets open fast enough "

I live out west, people complained about $25 a tag.

For every $550 non-res you force away, add $100 to every 5 resident licenses. You think that would be greeted with smiles and open wallets ? LOL ! Not to mention the businesses losing hundreds of millions in income.

Its anything BUT small potatoes


" Brad the White Mountain Apache's charge $17,000 for Elk tags and there's a 3-5 year wait! "

Thats Indian Reservations, sovereign nations. Do you really want western hunting on national forest land to become a pure supply and demand ? If so, lets raffle off every tag - and we'll see just how quickly residents decide they can't afford hunting.






" I don't understand why you non- residents are complaining. You spend a lot more on outfitters than a tag. Why don't you cry to the outfitters. They are screwing you much more than the states "


I don't use an outfitter when I come out west - why should I ? Are you forced to use one as a resident ? Do you sue one ?

Outfitters without non-residents would see their businesses die.
 
there you are again with your hand out wanting a free beer.

What is your business Glen?
 
Residents in California pay $37 to fish in the ocean, non-residents pay $100 to fish in the same ocean. California owns the ocean I guess...

California residents pay $340 for an elk tag, non-residents pay$1050..so you guys are bitching about paying anther $140 to hunt a bull in COlorado...

California residents pay $25 to hunt deer...non-residents pay $220...nearly ten times more...

cry me a river...please
 
FD-I own a 25 year old custom furniture manufacturing company that sells wholesale to designers. We have done work for Madonna, Leslie Nielsen, Ron Howard and many other people you would not recognize. Our product is unique and in demand so we can afford to turn down the occasional non resident PITA.
 
Glen - why are you assuming that I wouldn't recognize those left winger celebs ? I see now where your morals are. You will cater to anyone with cash.

Brad and I have morals and charachter, something you lack.

I hope business is well.
 
Some of these whiner posts are humorous. If a crap bill like this passed, I'd be pushing my reps here in Wyoming to change the law decreasing the percentage of non resident tags to something like 1% or less. If we all paid the same, we certainly wouldn't need non resident money. And the Feds have already passed legislation allowing states to dictate license allocation. With our state having a billion plus dollars in mineral money sitting in our general coffers, it'd be a matter of reallocating some funds to the G & F and we'd likely get by just fine if another non resident never came here again. Oooh, that should stir the pot...
 
Triple - you sound like the typical idiot that thinks the money only funds certain things. It's complete morons like you, the kool aid drinkers, that will never get what we actually do for you. You should welcome us with open arms. You folks out west are such hypocrites.
 
"Outfitters without non-residents would see their businesses die."

So be it.

I don't care what you nr's think. NR's shouldn't have equal odds & pay equal fee's to hunt out of state. Since you don't hire an outfitter, you can afford to pay for the tag. If that's too much to ask then hunt in your own state.
 
Brad I think it's clear why I used the examples I used. The fact that will remain constant is that you & I will have to pay whatever any state wishes to charge and we aren't going to change that no matter what. Think about this a very small sales tax would generate many many times nonresidents fees and that has been discussed in many western states. If you think anyone is going to bulldose the states over this let me tell you this they had better rethink that posture. It may be attempted and I'm sure some idiot will try but after the Taulman mess the states have a lot of protective legislation in place. It is what it is, you either ante up or stay at home.
 
FD you sound like a guy that seems to put the same significance on his wallet as his ass. One things for certain both of them will have to open up at some point in the future!
 
fdhunter, you attack everyone who dares not be sympathetic to your woes, and then you have the nerve to call yourself "classy". That is choice!

I have NEVER advocated doing away with NR tags, but I sure get tired of some smuck trying to piggyback on the hardwork done by residents and get a "discount", why? Simply because he 'deserves' it. Good 'logic'. The reason hunting is good here is because of residents, NOT some fdhunter looking for a handout.

I guide NR hunters every year, but one good thing about what I do, I get to turn down whiners and those who believe they 'deserve' something they have NOT earned. You could offer my $10,000/day and I would not take you as a client. It wouldn't be worth it. Anyone who is so arrogant as to assume he can tell a state how to run it's business, won't be invited to sit at my campfire. I have made fiends from just about every state in the Union thanks to hunting, so I know there are good reasonable people that are NR's, just not all of them.

PRO
 
Pro - because I don't think anybody hears what I am saying. I think the higher prices are totally unfair. Period. Nothing more nothing less. Thats it. You are all going off in all these other directions. I think me paying 500 dollars and you paying 35 dollars is a rip off.

DO YOU HEAR ME NOW ???

But if I want to hunt there I have to pay. I get it and it sucks.

Watch how loud you speak about you and your business. Word of mouth goes a long way. My hunting partners know my ethics and what we do for each other when we hunt. You on the other hand know nothing about me.
 
Boskee- thats funny because you seem to be willing to accept my money and free beer. What are you GIVING ?

Nothing. Go make you custom furniture for more PETA members. Good for you. You go girl.
 
Your darn right that's funny and you know it!! I really wish it was different for all of us but it is what it is.

By the way I don't make furniture that's Glenn.
 

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