What's your take on this?

[antlerrick]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-07 AT 09:38AM (MST)[p]I can remember 4 or 5 years ago, a lot of us who had never drawn a permit were getting pretty worried that by the time we ever drew a permit, the "big monster stinkys" would be a thing of the past. And then the decision was made to increase the number of permits on each unit. Again, more people were worried that they would never get a chance at a "big Stinky"..
Now a few years down the road, and after more permits have been issued, it appears that the bulls are getting bigger and bigger, and the guys who are drawing permits now, are actually killing bigger bulls on the average than they were a few years ago. A lot of us worried that the big bulls would be searched out and harvested and that there would be no more monsters left..
Will it be wiser to wait a few more years, hoping the same trend continues before you draw a permit, or do you think a guy better draw as soon as possible?

How much bigger and better can Utah's elk hunting get??
To me it is simply awesome!!!

 

[257Tony]

I think if the tag numbers don't change then the size of the Bulls will continue to be very impressive. Of course they may wax and wane depending on the year and amount of feed available.
______________________________________________________

 

[elkantlers]

If they keep increasing tags there will be a point that it starts hurting the quality. I hope they leave the elk management plan alone for a while and see what happens.

I also hope the I400 guys don't get their way. I would hate to see the FishLake ruined. It looks like it produced for A*R's wife this year.

 

[bobcatbess]

GOOD POST ar!!!

I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THE SAME THING FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS!!!

THERES ONLY ONE ADVANTAGE OF NOT DRAWING THE LAST 11 YEARS THAT I'VE TRIED!!!

THE BULLS ARE GETTING BIGGER & STINKIER!!!

I'M STILL WORRIED THOUGH!!!

THE SOONER I DRAW THE BETTER IF I EVER DO???

I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES!!!

I REMEMBER THE DEER HERD UTAH HAD BEFORE I WAS OLD ENOUGH TO HUNT!!!

I DAMN SURE HAVE SEEN CHANGES FOR THE WORSE!!!

THIS YEARS SUCCESS ON THE BIG STINKY'S AIN'T GONNA HELP MY ODDS OF DRAWING,THATS FOR SURE!!!

I'VE SEEN CHANGES IN MY DAY!!!

THERE ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE BAD CHANGES AFTER THE GOOD CHANGES TAKE PLACE!!!

FOR GODS SAKE LETS HOPE THE UDWR KEEPS THEIR HEADS PULLED OUT AND USES THEM ROUND THANGS ATOP THEIR SHOULDERS FOR MORE THAN JUST COLLECTING MONEY???

DAMN RIGHTS I'M WORRIED!!!

WOULD YOU BOYS BE EXCITED TO PULL A BIG STINKY PERMIT IF 300" WAS A MONSTER???

(((THAT LAST QUESTION AIN'T FOR YOU wiley!!!)))

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[Packout]

"WOULD YOU BOYS BE EXCITED TO PULL A BIG STINKY PERMIT IF 300" WAS A MONSTER???"

Would those boys have been happy to have drawn their permit 7 years ago when 300 was average? I'd bet they would have been excited in 2000 to receive a "Successful" letter.

It sure is interesting that those of us who were labeled as "Opportunists" 4 or so years ago are once again proven right. Increases in tag numbers on every unit and that bulls just keep getting bigger. Of course there is the edge-of-the-cliff when quality would suffer, but we can push that limit and even if we saw an extreme decrease in quality the permit numbers could be backed off and in 2 years or less the quality could be returned. You "Non-Opportunists" might want to take a deep breathe when permit numbers increase again next year.

Success isn't measured in inches.

 

[wileywapati]

CAT Ya know I can't resist a good opportunity vs. inch debate.


I talked with some DWR folks a few times this year. I was flat out told on both occasions that we could basically double the amount of opportunity that we give now.

THE BEST PART IS THAT WE WOULD NOT HURT QUALITY IN ANY WAY FOR A MINIMUM OF FIVE YEARS.

As far as a 300 inch bull taking the crown of being a big stinky DNA covered freak. I would do just like any other hunter would do, hunt for a 400 inch bull and be happy with whatever bull I end up letting the string go on.

BESSY we can put out more tags, provide more opportunity
aand not hurt a darn thing.

 

[antlerrick]

CAT,
I remember those days when the big deer seemed to be everywhere. Of course it was a year or too before I was old enough to hunt!!!! blah! That was when you had to be 16 in order to hunt. It has gone downhill since then. Sure you see a few big bucks being taken but nothing like in the old days.
I did finally draw an elk tag 5 years ago, and I told myself I would be very happy with a 320 bull. Now people look at them and cringe like they had eaten a sour grape. But I guess that is what makes the bulls get bigger every year.
If everyone had the same mentality with the deer, our herd quality would improve. If everyone would look at anything under a 25" 4x4 as a pisscutter buck, and let them go, the size and quality would have to improve.. Right?
And I agree that even if things started to turn upside down, if the game managers caught it in time, they could reverse the negative trend over the next couple of years. Wouldn't it be nice if deer were this easy?..
a*r

 

[bobcatbess]

JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST PackOut!!!

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO OVER HUNT LE UNITS UNTIL THE QUALITY DECLINED???

WTF???

THE UNITS WERE SET-UP FOR QUALITY HUNTS!!!

NOT PISSCUTTIN FOOLS!!!

THERE WOULD NEVER BE A REASON TO HAVE THE QUALITY OTHER THAN GREED!!!

I DON'T LIKE GREEDY BASTARDS!!!

NEVER HAVE!!!

NEVER WILL!!!

LET EM LIVE!!!

LET EM GROW!!!

LET EM GET BIG & STINKY!!!

LET A FEW LUCKY HUNTERS ENJOY A QUALITY HUNT JUST ONCE IN THEIR LIFETIME!!!

FOR GODS SAKE WAKE THE HELL UP & REALIZE THERE AIN'T ENOUGH BIG STINKY'S FOR EVERY TARD IN UTAH TO KILL TWO OF THEM!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[ktc]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-07 AT 12:10PM (MST)[p]Give as much opportunity as we can, but NO DECLINE!

I still say that and I will probably never hunt an LE elk again. We are done and had our turn. I do thank my lucky stars I got UN's every year until the last 3 years. Our 350+ bulls will always be big to me.

This debate will go on forever. I respect the opinions more and more of Packout and wiley, I just tend to disagree with them. The great thing is quality goes up, but so does the opportunity. 2100 tags now versus 700 a few years back. My guess would be 2500-2700 next year?

 

[bobcatbess]

PackOut!!!

HERES MY OFFER TO YOU!!!

THERES AN LE UNIT NOT TOO FAR FROM WHERE I LIVE!!!

ONCE UPON A TIME IT PRODUCED SOME GREAT BULLS!!!

THANKS TO "GREED","PISS POOR MANAGEMENT","COW SLAUGHTERS" AND "LATE DEPERDATION BULL HUNTS IN DECEMBER" THIS UNIT IS IN SERIOUS TROUBLE!!!

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME I'LL SHOW YOU!!!

OPPORTUNISTS SHOULDN'T BE SCREWING WITH QUALITY!!!

I MENTIONED SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS FOR YOU BOYS TO GET YOUR OWN TYPE OF UNITS STARTED & HUNT THEM THE WAY YOU FRICKEN WANT!!!

HAVE ANY OF YOU DONE ONE DAMN THING TO GET THE UNITS STARTED??

I HIGHLY DOUBT IT!!!

WHERE WOULD WE BE RIGHT NOW IF WE WOULD NOT OF STARTED THE LE UNITS SEVERAL YEARS AGO???

ANSWERS PLEASE???

I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE HOW MANY PISSCUTTIN FOOLS ARE GONNA BE BITTCHING & WHINING FOR AN LE PERMIT AFTER ALL THESE BIG BULLS BEING HARVESTED THIS YEAR!!!

GOOD GOD THERE MUST BE MILLIONS OF THEM BIG STINKYS RUNNING AROUND,WE BETTER ISSUE EVERY PERSON IN THE STATE A PERMIT!!!

I'M CALLING BULL$HIT ON ALL THE PHONY EXCUSES WE ARE ABOUT TO HEAR!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[Packout]

It has been awhile since we last beat this issue....

KTC- "Give as much opportunity as we can, but NO DECLINE!" How will we ever know what is "as much opportunity as we can" without hitting the edge of the cliff. It doesn't mean we shoot every bull on the unit. It just means maybe we see a slight downward trend in age. Would you have been happy with a 330 bull 7 years ago? I am sure glad you didn't draw in 1999, you would be looking at your 328 bull on the wall. Now many expect a 370+ or they are pissed. The last thing I want is to be shooting 3 year old bulls on every unit. And congrats to your wife on a great hunt and what sounds like a great, hard earned bull.

Bobby- I assume you are talking about the Anthro. The bulls and cows were shot not because of opportunists. Depredation, Herd Population Objective, come to mind. Not Wiley or lowly Packout asking for more permits. (Like we have any pull with the DWR or Board) You are an interesting fellow. A million bulls..... HAHAHAHHAHA. It's ALL A CONSPIRACY MAN.........

Best of luck to everyone on their hunts.

 

[bobcatbess]

PackOut!!!

I NEVER ONCE BLAMED YOU OR wiley FOR THE BELOW AVERAGE LE UNIT!!!

WHAT I'M SAYING IS!!!

WHAT THE HELL GOOD IS AN LE UNIT THAT AIN'T PRODUCING THE WAY IT SHOULD???

HOW MANY 375"+ BULLS DO YOU KNOW OF THAT CAME OFF THE MENTIONED UNIT???

YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION???

WTF???

SO I ASK AGAIN!!!

WHY HAVEN'T YOU & YOUR FOLLOWERS STARTED YOUR OWN TYPE OF UNITS/HUNTS SO YOU CAN MANAGE THEM FOR ONE OF YOUR DECLINES???

YOU CAN ALWAYS SNAP YOUR FINGERS & BRING THE TROPHIES BACK WITHIN ONE YEAR,RIGHT???

YOU'RE ALSO AN INTERESTING FELLOW,I GUESS WE ALL ARE???

BUT IF YOU THINK THE UNITS SHOULD BE HUNTED HARD ENOUGH TO SEE A MAJOR DECLINE IN THE QUALITY I THINK WE BETTER GET YOU TO A DR. TO GET YOUR HEAD CHECKED!!!

IF THATS PROPER MANAGEMENT YOU'RE UP IN THE NIGHT!!!

JUST START YOUR OWN UNITS!!!

IF YOU & OTHERS WOULD OF LISTENED TO ME YOU'D BE A COUPLE OF YEARS INTO THE NEW UNITS ALREADY!!!

THEN YOU COULD MANAGE THEM ANY WAY YOU'D LIKE!!!

JUST DON'T TRY & FIX OTHER LE UNITS THAT AIN'T BROKE YET!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[wileywapati]

EASY KITTY, EASY BIG FELLA. JFP you are going to give yourself a CAT stroke.

My perfect scenario would be to keep everything just as it is but go with the amount of tags approved by the elk committee a couple of years ago. The Biologists, ( guys and gals that do this stuff for a living ) Conservation groups, well except one,
and the public thought this was the most responsible way to manage the resource not just for the sake of the big stinky bulls, but also the new recruits in the herd that have to eat and drink. As well as the deer sheep and cattle that also share this range.

Yep we've so some big ass elk in this state but look at what we are giving up to keep it this way. We've had fires like crazy in a couple critical spots this summer. Cattle ain't getting fed, and we want to add another roughly 4000 head of elk to the state???

CAT MY BROTHA we are at the point where archery tags need to atleast double and all other methods of take need to see a substantial increase as well.

THE ONLY ww THAT IS WAITING FOR THE BOTTLES ROCKS AND TIN CANS TO COME FLYING IN FROM THE EAST!!!

 

[bobcatbess]

wiley!!!

WELL!!!

DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE CANS!!!

SOMEBODY CLAIMED THEY SEEN ME PICKING THEM ALL UP A WHILE BACK,LOL!!!

HERES ONE MORE THING TO THINK ABOUT!!!

THERES BEEN QUITE A BIT A PEOPLE PRESSURE/HUNTER PRESSURE/PICTURE TAKERS/FINDERS/LOSERS & ETC IN THE LE UNITS THE LAST FEW YEARS!!!

AT A CERTAIN POINT THERES MORE TO A QUALITY HUNT THAN JUST TAKING A BIG STINKY!!!

WHEN THEY TURN THE LE HUNTS INTO A CIRCUS I'M GONNA AUCTION MY BONUS POINTS!!!

I'M THINKING ITS NOT TO FAR OFF & THE BIG STINKY'S WILL HAVE SOMEBODY CAMPED ON THEM 24/7/365!!!

FOR GODS SAKE wiley!!!

WILL YOU PLEASE PUT 500.00 IN THIS NEXT YEARS APPLICATION SO YOU CAN DRAW???

AND AFTER YOU DRAW I DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOU BEACHING FOR EVEN MORE OPPORTUNITY!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[ktc]

Thanks PO. It was fun and she is happy as a lark.

I know where bobcat is coming from. When you get lots invested in points the last thing we want is a dumb decision. I like the slow steady increases they have done personally.

 

[Packout]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-07 AT 07:49PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-07 AT 07:07 PM (MST)

Can no one see the irony here? People with lots of points want, even expect, the extreme quality currently present in most of Utah's under-harvested limited entry units. YET, these same people were trying to draw tags 10-15 years ago when a 350 bull was only a dream. I feel bad for those guys who drew a tag in 1993 to 2003. They only got to hunt 300-340 bulls. What a travesty. -sarcasm-

KTC- I understand. We'll have agree to disagree. Glad those new ponies did the job as well.

**Edit didn't want it to sound like it came across

 

[ktc]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-07 AT 07:55PM (MST)[p]PO,

Good luck to your Dad, he still has 2 days. From what I saw, the bulls are just getting serious about the rut where I was.

Get your Dad taken care of and good luck on the moose!

We all agree the hunting is better now for elk. Kudos to him at 70 for trying.

It did not sound that way PO.

 

[B_F_E]

Maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I think the deer should be managed with the priority that the elk have inherited.

I vote shoot the elk & put the focus on the mule deer.

 

[ClorideRUS]

Got to run my mouth off a little, as usual. We really have 2 issues here ? opportunity and quality. Young hunters need opportunity, seasoned hunters need quality. As hard as it is for me to admit, I think the Utah DWR has done a pretty good job with elk management in both cases. One thing that troubles me is ? the score keepers that brag about how many 400+ bulls their team has taken. The bottom line is ?. If you draw a LE tag in Utah, you have a good chance at a wall hanger, plus if you are a youth hunter you also have a pretty good opportunity at harvesting a bull. If it comes to opportunity as opposed to quality, I'll take opportunity every time. I just like to spend time in the hills with family and friends. It doesn't matter whether you kill a 350+ bull or a 200+ deer, what matters is, spending quality time hunting. If I had my way, guided hunts would be illegal. I think its bullsh!t that people profit from ?bounty hunting?. That means no more nonsense $30,000.00 auctions or bid permits. If you draw a LE tag ? good for you. Put your time in and take your chances. Maybe the Game & Fish can spend more time ?managing? instead of fund raising. Just my opinion.

RUS

 

[bobcatbess]

HEY PackOut!!!

IF YOUR DAD HAS A NEBO TAG WHY THE HELL WERE YOU HERE ARGUEING WITH ME FOR HALF THE DAY???

HELL!!!

I'D OF DROVE OUT & HELPED YOU IF YOU'D OF SAID SOMETHING!!!

I MIGHT NOT OF BEEN MUCH HELP CUZZ I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT NEBO BUT WE SURE AIN'T GETTING HER DONE ARGUEING HERE ON THE PUTER!!!

GOOD LUCK TO YOUR DAD,I HOPE HE FINDS THE BIG STINKY!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[bobcatbess]

HEY RUS!!!

YOU ALREADY RUN THE WARDEN OFF!!!

YOU TRYING TO STIR IT WITH MOSSBACK NOW???

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[PRD8R]

I have lived in Nevada all my life,38yrs, and finally drew a tag in Elko Co after 22yrs. I personally would draw a tag asap. You're Bulls are Big now, go get one Good Luck

 

[Daxter]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-07 AT 09:18PM (MST)[p]Dax

 

[ClorideRUS]

BCB, Hmmm ... maybe I have more input than I thought! I doubt it ... probably just making more enemies ... at this stage of the game, I really don't give a sh!t.

<smile>

RUS

 

[dfowler08x]

I would love to kill a 300 bull. I have been putting in for a unit in oregon for the last 8 years and havent got the tag yet. Public Land hunting for elk in oregon sucks IMO. Ive seen plenty of 300+ bulls during archery season but with the way ODFW manages elk its tough. Like having rifle season for deer while archery hunters are trying to kill bulls in the rut. Just had to vent. No bull for me this archery season. Today was the last day. Off to hunt Muleys in a week... Good Luck to all....

 

[bobcatbess]

HEY RUS!!!

HOW MANY WARDENS YOU RUN OUT OF SOUTHERN UTAH OVER THE YEARS???

IF YOU HADN'T OF POACHED THAT EGG!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[fdhunter]

Too bad nobody can hunt except the few lucky ones. Just keep looking on this sight and drooling of the one day if ever you get the opportunity. You Utards are nothing but horn hunters. By the way, how do those horns tatse ?