ethics
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nmtaxi
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-04 AT 11:02AM (MST)[p]I say absolutely not. That's what hunting partners are for. Sometimes it's a team effort. I'll also say that I've never had this situation while I was hunting that I needed the help, but see nothing wrong with it.
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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Not only do I think it is unethical, but it is illegal in a lot of states (I know for sure it is in Colorado and Montana). I take walkie talkies in with me to communicate about other things and for safety, but never to tell someone else "He is just over the rise from you." Not a big leap from that to locating one from a plane and directing hunters there.
To clarify, it would be unethical for ME to do this anywhere. If you are in a state where it is legal, only you can decide whether or not it is ethical for you.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
To clarify, it would be unethical for ME to do this anywhere. If you are in a state where it is legal, only you can decide whether or not it is ethical for you.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
five_point_buck
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I don't have anything wrong with the hand signals, I even think its cool to help another or include another in the hunt. Memories will be made for both the helper and the shooter. Hand signals are primitive and confusing and not always reliable. Adds to the difficulty.
On the other hand, the radio thing is b.s. In my mind you might as well be in a chute plane or helicopter. If someone gets directions from another verbally, that is wrong, how hard is it to be in someones ear directing them to a spot. They don't have to stop and look back at the spotter. They can keep a low profile all the way.
If I'm not mistaken, its illegal in some states to guide by radio. With the growing popularity of the motorola radios (which are very handy for survival purposes), its not uncommon for Game dpet.s to track radio traffic. Watch what you say out there...
Take er easy
five_point_buck *
On the other hand, the radio thing is b.s. In my mind you might as well be in a chute plane or helicopter. If someone gets directions from another verbally, that is wrong, how hard is it to be in someones ear directing them to a spot. They don't have to stop and look back at the spotter. They can keep a low profile all the way.
If I'm not mistaken, its illegal in some states to guide by radio. With the growing popularity of the motorola radios (which are very handy for survival purposes), its not uncommon for Game dpet.s to track radio traffic. Watch what you say out there...
Take er easy
five_point_buck *
Hand signals are fine but no radios. This just opens up a can of worms using radios to lead someone to a buck besides I think it's already illegal. My partner and I use radios but it's just to check in with each other every two hours to see where each other is or if one of us need help with an animal.
txhunter58
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Couldn't get ahold of the NM game and fish (was on hold for more than 10 minutes), but I bet it is illegal there too.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
nmtaxi
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-04 AT 12:58PM (MST)[p]It could be tx, I'm not arguing with you. I just don't see it being a very effective way to locate game. Maybe I'm missing something. I've stalked plenty of animals that I spotted from across a canyon.... well never mind. As I was about to explain myself, I realized my argument wouldn't hold. UNCLE.
BUT, I still don't see the difference between the radios and the hand-signals. It seems like the same thing to me. Either it's ethical or unethical to have help locating game. I don't see that the difference in methods makes one eithical and one not. If someone could explain that to me, I'd appreciate it.
BUT, I still don't see the difference between the radios and the hand-signals. It seems like the same thing to me. Either it's ethical or unethical to have help locating game. I don't see that the difference in methods makes one eithical and one not. If someone could explain that to me, I'd appreciate it.
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264Magnum
Guest
i don't agree with using radios, but i think hand signals are fine. it's easy to have an ear piece in and have your buddy saying "walk ten yards to the left, he'll be 150 yards away, i'll tell you when he's facing away from you". but try to decipher the same friend waving his arms around like a madman trying to tell you the same thing. hand signals are fun and confusing, and like someone else said, it makes good memories for both people.
__________________________________________________________________
There are three reasons to own a gun. To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face. -- Krusty the Clown
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There are three reasons to own a gun. To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face. -- Krusty the Clown
Hey Guys,
You can most likely all be correct. Myself I think if it is not ilegal it should be. Locating game by radio falls ever so close to locating by aircraft. It is up to each individual to determine what is fair chase and how much of the challenge do you want to take away. We all should remember the name of the sport is hunting not killing. If it becomes to easy the woods will be overrun with idiots.
I do think it is ok for communication checking in safety ect. My choice is the rhino radio/gps. This unit offers text messaging with a vibration notification option. I have tested voice radios in the presence of deer, they really do not like them even the squelch makes them scatter. There is way to much high tech equipment nowadays, keep it alittle primitive.
Bowguy
You can most likely all be correct. Myself I think if it is not ilegal it should be. Locating game by radio falls ever so close to locating by aircraft. It is up to each individual to determine what is fair chase and how much of the challenge do you want to take away. We all should remember the name of the sport is hunting not killing. If it becomes to easy the woods will be overrun with idiots.
I do think it is ok for communication checking in safety ect. My choice is the rhino radio/gps. This unit offers text messaging with a vibration notification option. I have tested voice radios in the presence of deer, they really do not like them even the squelch makes them scatter. There is way to much high tech equipment nowadays, keep it alittle primitive.
Bowguy
nmtaxi
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OK, I see how you guys see it as unethical. No argument there. I still think, if you and your buddy are glassing a hillside, and you spot a buck, one of you goes after it, and one stays behind to direct you to it, that there's not much difference between using a radio, and using hand signals. I use neither. When I hike, glass and stalk, I'm alone. I've watched videos where they have hand signals down to a science. I just still don't see the difference as far as ethics go. If I'm stalking an animal, the last thing I want is somebody talking in my ear, or waving their hands at me telling me what they think I should be doing.
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boneaddict
Guest
I'm quite certian its illegal in Washington, and I think it is in Idaho. If I get a chance, I'll pull it up. If it isn't IMO it should be.
AndymanSavage
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Question-
If you guys were hunting with friends and came up on a group of bucks, would you radio your buddy who was a mile away or would you hike to him to tell him about the bucks???
If you guys were hunting with friends and came up on a group of bucks, would you radio your buddy who was a mile away or would you hike to him to tell him about the bucks???
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boneaddict
Guest
Two way communication may not be used to hunt big game. as per montana regulations. Thats pretty plain. I know I saw that in Wa or Id, but can't find it for now surfin' the net. Thats pretty plain what I would do to answer your question, wouldn't use it in Montana, its against the law. Besides, I hunt alone. This could be the first year that I might actually go hunting with a partner, other than my father. When we go out, I see him two hours before the sun comes up, and usually after it has gone down. We sometimes meet in the middle for lunch, if the timing works out. Hell, we don't even wear a timepiece, so thats how much technology I use.
LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-04 AT 05:29PM (MST)[p]Andymansavage,
This is a great example of likely acceptable use of radios. The laws I have read state use in the pursuit of game. where does the pursuit start? Although in most muley country a mile would take awhile to cover.
Situation? Are the bucks bedded? are the bucks moving? Are the bucks in the catagory you or your buddy would pursue? By all means if there was an option to contact your buddy and get him in on these bucks use a smoke signal if you have to. This is all mute if you have your tag unfilled and there is a buck in the group you want to harvest. In this case you can let your buddy know that evening when you return to camp what he missed out on while he admires your buck. You never know he might have his on group of bucks.
The above scenario is probably more common than you think. If you both want be in on the same hunt stay together, if you split up expect to fend for yourself.
Bowguy
This is a great example of likely acceptable use of radios. The laws I have read state use in the pursuit of game. where does the pursuit start? Although in most muley country a mile would take awhile to cover.
Situation? Are the bucks bedded? are the bucks moving? Are the bucks in the catagory you or your buddy would pursue? By all means if there was an option to contact your buddy and get him in on these bucks use a smoke signal if you have to. This is all mute if you have your tag unfilled and there is a buck in the group you want to harvest. In this case you can let your buddy know that evening when you return to camp what he missed out on while he admires your buck. You never know he might have his on group of bucks.
The above scenario is probably more common than you think. If you both want be in on the same hunt stay together, if you split up expect to fend for yourself.
Bowguy
K
ktc
Guest
No.
What is the difference between a two -way radio, Mathews bow, Knight in-line muzzleloader, ATV, GPS, rangefinders, sabots, carbon arrows, 300 Ultra Mag, and Swarovski optics?
Nothing.
What is the difference between a two -way radio, Mathews bow, Knight in-line muzzleloader, ATV, GPS, rangefinders, sabots, carbon arrows, 300 Ultra Mag, and Swarovski optics?
Nothing.
D
dakotakid
Guest
Personally I use whatever means I have to, radios, chute planes, light gathering optics, night vision optics(makes those night hunts a breeze), silencers. I'm gonna do what ever I have to to get me one of those 60 inchers that has been posted here in recent weeks.
Come on guys, most of us have been here long enough to know that we cant discuss "ethics" in a civil manner. Bottom line is (and someone already mentioned it) that if it is legal then the moral aspect is completely upto the individual.
Mike
Come on guys, most of us have been here long enough to know that we cant discuss "ethics" in a civil manner. Bottom line is (and someone already mentioned it) that if it is legal then the moral aspect is completely upto the individual.
Mike
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bobcatbess
Guest
BESIDES
ALL THE HIGH TECH ITEMS MENTIONED WERE PROBABLY BROUGHT IN ON AN ATV,THROUGH CLOSED ROADS,THROUGH PRIMITIVE,GROUND RIPPED TO HELL BY UNETHICAL IDIOTS THAT JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!!
NOTHING LIKE TRYING TO HUNT A CANYON AND HAVE 3 OR 4 RADIO'S BLAIRING AWAY,BIG BUCK'S JUST LOVE THAT SOUND!!!
MOST OF THEM CAN'T EVEN LOOK INTO THE FUTURE ENOUGH TO REALIZE THEY ARE DESTROYING THEIR KIDS AND THEIR KIDS CHANCES OF EVER SEEING ANYTHING!!!
THEY BUY ALL THEIR HIGH-TECH BULLSHIT AND THINK THEY ARE JUST A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN THE REST OF US,THINKING THE LAWS DON'T APPLY TO THEM!!!
WOW,I'M GLAD MY ATV IS JUST A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN MOST!!!
THE ONLY bobcat STILL LOOKING FOR A CHUTE-ER!!!
ALL THE HIGH TECH ITEMS MENTIONED WERE PROBABLY BROUGHT IN ON AN ATV,THROUGH CLOSED ROADS,THROUGH PRIMITIVE,GROUND RIPPED TO HELL BY UNETHICAL IDIOTS THAT JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!!
NOTHING LIKE TRYING TO HUNT A CANYON AND HAVE 3 OR 4 RADIO'S BLAIRING AWAY,BIG BUCK'S JUST LOVE THAT SOUND!!!
MOST OF THEM CAN'T EVEN LOOK INTO THE FUTURE ENOUGH TO REALIZE THEY ARE DESTROYING THEIR KIDS AND THEIR KIDS CHANCES OF EVER SEEING ANYTHING!!!
THEY BUY ALL THEIR HIGH-TECH BULLSHIT AND THINK THEY ARE JUST A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN THE REST OF US,THINKING THE LAWS DON'T APPLY TO THEM!!!
WOW,I'M GLAD MY ATV IS JUST A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN MOST!!!
THE ONLY bobcat STILL LOOKING FOR A CHUTE-ER!!!
B&C will not accept animals taken with the use of electronic equipment because they deem it unethical. Each state makes their own interpetaion of ethics and turns it into law. Sometimnes it takes a while to catch up to the ethical thing. Some allow scopes on muzzy's some don't. Some allow radios, some don't. Some states are just further behind than others. I have used them on some hunts but have never been successful while using them. But I did have fun with it. I'm not sure how I feel on the subject. Its an individual thing for sure.
Yelum
Yelum
M
mulie03
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Sep-03-04 AT 08:39AM (MST)[p]I have been using radios in the field as a guide since they first came out with the Motorolla DPS 5 mile radio.(one of the few good ones by the way) As a guide working with another guide in a 5 square mile area, they are very useful and valuble. We usually only use them for 10-20 checks,lunch break calls, and to find out who shot what,when one of us hears a gun shot.
As far as fair chase is concerned, I believe in it, and would not use the radio as tool to direct hunters on top of thier game. However, we have used them to dicuss locations of deer in a large general area. Which is not "pursuit". I believe the pusuit starts when your out of your truck with gun in hand.
On a side note Radios have helped us capture Poachers in the area on several occasions. And now days poaching has become so prevalent, we have to patrol our county roads and keep people from stoppong and shooting deer on our property. So this has become our main use for radios now.
As far as fair chase is concerned, I believe in it, and would not use the radio as tool to direct hunters on top of thier game. However, we have used them to dicuss locations of deer in a large general area. Which is not "pursuit". I believe the pusuit starts when your out of your truck with gun in hand.
On a side note Radios have helped us capture Poachers in the area on several occasions. And now days poaching has become so prevalent, we have to patrol our county roads and keep people from stoppong and shooting deer on our property. So this has become our main use for radios now.
G
groundshrink
Guest
Hope this doesn't turn out to be a BOOK! -I hunt Utah's southeastern unit on the South Manti. (I know I 'm crazy, but I'd just like to see my kids get what most would call a meat buck, just to get them the 'taste' that may keep another generation hunting) Question: how on earth is a warden going to zero in on an illegal hunt? In this unit you can't find a clear channel! I use my radio to keep track of my kids so I don't have to spend half my hunt retreiving them. The last year we could muzzle loader hunt in the snow an aquantance showed me a big three point buck he killed the 2nd to the last day. Of course I wanted to know the particulars of the hunt. Ever sneak up on a buck in crunchy snow? Pretty darn difficult! They got this buck by his buddy spotting it way out in front and manuvering this guy to an intercept point. His buddy even told him that he should be seeing horns come over the ridge any second! BANG! Every year it seems there is less and less to chase on this unit. The Bucks get smaller and smaller (I know there are some good ones still, but on the average-my opinion) To me that is totally wrong -they'd never have gotten this buck without the use of the radio, would this same guy spotlight? Hell no, but he can't see that what he did created an unfair advantage that he exploited to take a buck he shouldn't have gotten the chance to. The devil is in the details. WRONG to do it- my 2 cents
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ktc
Guest
Anyone ever have problems on opening day finding a clear channel on the Motorola? Good hell, seems like I have a pretty good understanding of what is going on around me when the scan is on.
Lots of unethical hunters opening day. Or, maybe they are just taking advantage of technology.
Lots of unethical hunters opening day. Or, maybe they are just taking advantage of technology.
I think hunting ethics are a personal code. The law tells you what you can and cannot do, but then there is what you ought and ought not to do within the law which speaks to one's hunting ethic.
One person's personal code will be different from another's. This is OK. To lay out one's personal code verges on imposing one's own philosophies on others. For me I have a good idea of what fair chase and hunting mean to me, and this is what I want my methods of hunting to abide by. I think the point is that if you violate your own personal code of ethics, any success you have while hunting will be undermined in your mind and the whole experience of hunting will be diminished. You'll have that nagging feeling of dirtiness, and the sweet thrill of the hunt will be just a little dull.
Figure out your own code of ethics. Think about what is fair and what is not fair. Think about what the whole experience of hunting means to you and let that guide your thinking about what is fair and what is not fair. Then abide by your code. Probably your code will evolve over your life as you age.
One person's personal code will be different from another's. This is OK. To lay out one's personal code verges on imposing one's own philosophies on others. For me I have a good idea of what fair chase and hunting mean to me, and this is what I want my methods of hunting to abide by. I think the point is that if you violate your own personal code of ethics, any success you have while hunting will be undermined in your mind and the whole experience of hunting will be diminished. You'll have that nagging feeling of dirtiness, and the sweet thrill of the hunt will be just a little dull.
Figure out your own code of ethics. Think about what is fair and what is not fair. Think about what the whole experience of hunting means to you and let that guide your thinking about what is fair and what is not fair. Then abide by your code. Probably your code will evolve over your life as you age.
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Muleyslyr
Guest
So let's see....if it's immoral to use radios or the latest "technology" when hunting, I sure as hell hope those same guys that think that don't use there fansy GPS or think that OK. In my opinion, there is not difference between a GPS or hand held radio. IF ITS LEGAL, USE IT....IF ITS NOT, DONT. That simple. Nobody should quesion a persons ethics if it's not illegal!
"Your code will evolve over your life as you age".
Very well said. Just because some of us have experinced more and had an opportunity to evolve overtime doesn't ever give us the right to belittle or question others ethics because of the choices they decide to make. There will always be someone who is "more ethical" than you are and someone who you feel should be "more ethical". To each his own. Worry about yourself. That's all you can control anyway. Unless new laws are made it will always be up to the individual as to where they are going to draw their own line.
Good luck this year,
NvrEnuf
Very well said. Just because some of us have experinced more and had an opportunity to evolve overtime doesn't ever give us the right to belittle or question others ethics because of the choices they decide to make. There will always be someone who is "more ethical" than you are and someone who you feel should be "more ethical". To each his own. Worry about yourself. That's all you can control anyway. Unless new laws are made it will always be up to the individual as to where they are going to draw their own line.
Good luck this year,
NvrEnuf
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Muleyslyr
Guest
Let's say your on a ridge, and let's say your Dad is on the ridge across from you and you can see that he is 50 yards above a huge non-typical, but he doesn't know it. If he takes 5 steps he could see it. Now, you have your Motorola with you (so you can meet up for lunch only, or keep track of eachother so you don't get lost....sure) your not gonna tell your ol' man to take 5 steps and look right below ya, there's the buck you've been waiting 46 years for. Ya right, just wait tell you get back to your big ass campfire and tell him...."a man Dad, you don't know how close you were!"
Ethics....give me fricken break. Blows my mind how perfect everybody is out in the field.
Ethics....give me fricken break. Blows my mind how perfect everybody is out in the field.
Ok time to move on to a different subject.
None of us are perfect we all know that. All we can do is our best when a situation is presented. In the field things happen way faster that in these discussions and I for one do not think anyone can honestly say what they will do in a hypethetical situation until it becomes real. Lets just go out and have fun.
Can't we all get along?
Bowguy
None of us are perfect we all know that. All we can do is our best when a situation is presented. In the field things happen way faster that in these discussions and I for one do not think anyone can honestly say what they will do in a hypethetical situation until it becomes real. Lets just go out and have fun.
Can't we all get along?
Bowguy
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brock
Guest
hey guys sorry to barge in but on the topic of ethics: i have a problem with an outfitter in colorado. he has given me the run around after collecting money (deposits)for a hunt and i cant get him to honor the commitment. i have been lied to and basically cheated out of my money. anybody had similar experience? anything a lawyer can do? ANY feedback would be appreciated. by the way i hunted with an outfitter in NM that used those tactics. i think it depends on the case at hand... old grandad wanting one last buck...etc and you want to make it count. they still run whitetails with dogs back home which i don't care for.
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boneaddict
Guest
You could accidentally slip his name on here, without bashing him, slander etc, and I know alot of guys that won't use him.
KTC about all of those items listed, I actually don't use any of them, and most of them I wish other people didn't use either, such as in-lines, atvs etc. Since most of them aren't illegal, its just up to the folks. As stated before, if its illegal don't do it. By the way, chime in on your motorola with that big buck next to ya, and see if he still stands there, or you can let fate take its course. Maybe your Dad is a better hunter than you think he is. : )
KTC about all of those items listed, I actually don't use any of them, and most of them I wish other people didn't use either, such as in-lines, atvs etc. Since most of them aren't illegal, its just up to the folks. As stated before, if its illegal don't do it. By the way, chime in on your motorola with that big buck next to ya, and see if he still stands there, or you can let fate take its course. Maybe your Dad is a better hunter than you think he is. : )
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Muleyslyr
Guest
Was only a hypathetical question/statement.
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brock
Guest
okay okay we all know what we would given the situation. me personally if it is legal use it! as for B&C how many of us will ever really have to worry about that?
me personally if he is that big who gives a dang anyway. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder i think anyway.
bone it is not outfitter bashing if it is the truth is it? heck it is public knowledge posted on Colorado game and fish website!fines, license revocation, and list of reprimands. (didnt know it at the time) the guy's name is bob parker of Lamar, CO. Ever heard of him? well out of common courtesy for all the fine gents i wont go into details on here but feel free to e-mail me and i will give you the skinny as they say. my e-mail address is [email protected]
that goes for anyone else, too. the state game and fish websites or outfitter councils sites are good places to start before you book with an individual to see what they "have on their record" some wil list the disciplinary actions or complaints. do a little research before you cut the check it may save you some headache!
me personally if he is that big who gives a dang anyway. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder i think anyway.
bone it is not outfitter bashing if it is the truth is it? heck it is public knowledge posted on Colorado game and fish website!fines, license revocation, and list of reprimands. (didnt know it at the time) the guy's name is bob parker of Lamar, CO. Ever heard of him? well out of common courtesy for all the fine gents i wont go into details on here but feel free to e-mail me and i will give you the skinny as they say. my e-mail address is [email protected]
that goes for anyone else, too. the state game and fish websites or outfitter councils sites are good places to start before you book with an individual to see what they "have on their record" some wil list the disciplinary actions or complaints. do a little research before you cut the check it may save you some headache!
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3DaughterMan
Guest
Personally, I don't use to pursue game, just to check in etc, etc. like others. A friend of mine was using radios to track a wounded animal - hit pretty good but not down (now is this a different question?) he pretty much knew where it went to bed down but was relaying the info to a friend with topo information and phyiscal features and the next thing you know a couple of trucks with the "local boys" of town were ahead of him and they finished off the buck of a lifetime. Be careful what you say, someone might just listen.
jkhunterid
Member
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We usually use radios for contact only and to keep my teenagers from getting lost. As a funny side a couple of years ago while chasing elk my friend and I hear, " I think dipshit just shot a doe." Of course does were open for youth hunters but we saw a fish and game truck headed up the canyon "dipshit and his friends were in." If they are picking up messages from space, I'm sure someone will hear your radio chatter.
eelgrass
Long Time Member
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- 31,422
If it's legal and you feel it's ethical then go ahead and use it.
The one that gets to me is the situation where one guy has a tag (maybe it's one of those hard to draw tags that we all try for). The tag holder either gets all his family, friends, or every sub-guide in the state to join him on the hunt. The tag holder sits back in camp watching satellite TV, monitering his radio while his buddies spread out looking for Mr. Big. If someone spots a good one, they call the hunter on the radio and the "hunt" is on. If nobody spots Mr. Big that day, at least they can take comfort in the knowledge that they probably screwed up some other hunters chances by running all over the country during their scouting.
I wish people like that would just buy a pair of sheds on ebay and have them mounted up and leave the hunting for the hunters. To me, that's not deer hunting, that's deer killing.
But like I said, if it's legal, who am I to question what is right.
eelgrass
The one that gets to me is the situation where one guy has a tag (maybe it's one of those hard to draw tags that we all try for). The tag holder either gets all his family, friends, or every sub-guide in the state to join him on the hunt. The tag holder sits back in camp watching satellite TV, monitering his radio while his buddies spread out looking for Mr. Big. If someone spots a good one, they call the hunter on the radio and the "hunt" is on. If nobody spots Mr. Big that day, at least they can take comfort in the knowledge that they probably screwed up some other hunters chances by running all over the country during their scouting.
I wish people like that would just buy a pair of sheds on ebay and have them mounted up and leave the hunting for the hunters. To me, that's not deer hunting, that's deer killing.
But like I said, if it's legal, who am I to question what is right.
eelgrass
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boneaddict
Guest
Well said!
