What are they thinking?

E

Elkoholic8

Guest
I just read on the DWR site that the archery elk season is going to be extended 5 days. Sounds good right? Well here is the deal, it is going to open the same time as the archery deer, mid August, then close 5 days earlier (around the 10th of Sept.). Unless you draw a LE archery tag. If you get a LE archery tag you get to hunt the extra 5 days longer with no spike/ cow hunters. They also said that the Utah Bowmens Association suggested this idea. WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING?? This is terrible news. I'm all for extending the archery season but don't make it any earlier! They should be pushing the any weapon hunters back 5 days.
Man it sure seems like Utah is trying very hard to screw the average hunters.


->>>--Elkoholic8-->
 
I have another opinion. Five days earlier for general archers equals more opportunity. (If It's hot weather, you need to get those big stinky's out fast, after the kill.) It takes usually several years to draw a limited entry archery elk tag. Let them have 5 days of quality hunting with out the crowds. Sounds good to me.
 
5 extra days is good, either at the begining or the end.

Yes it would be nice if it was tacked on to the end, closer to the heart of the rut, but i wont complain about 5 extra days. kudos for getting them for us.

I also agree that the any weapon, guys could get pushed back 5 days, and still have plenty of the rut left, and its not nearly as difficult to get with in 200,300(and for some guys700)yards of the big stinky.

just my 2cents
 
usually the big stinkin bulls starting coming out the last week of the archery. Because they start getting that lovin feelin.

For the most part
 
I will take partial credit for IMPROVING the LE archery hunt on spike only units, YOUR WELCOME!

Here is the deal, in 2007 ALL LE archery bull elk hunters competed EVERY day with archery deer hunters AND spike/antlerless hunters, as well as 7 days with grouse hunters. What we(UBA) did was give the lucky LE archery elk hunters on spike only units was FIVE days w/o having to compete with spike/antlerless hunters. I would love to move the hunt further into the rut as well, what bowhunter wouldn't? But, how do you propose to accomplish that? Talk is cheap, give real answers on how you would get this done. Those who chose to archery hunt spikes/antlerless, will STILL get 23 days to hunt, same as in 2007, butu you can then, if desired, move to the any-bull units and hunt an additional 5 days, meaning every general-season archer has the OPPORTUNITY to hunt 28 days instead of 23 days. The archery bull elk hunters will get a 28 day season as opposed to a 23 day season like in 2007 as well, with the last five days(closest to the rut) being conducted w/o spike/antlerless hunters.

So, you asked what were they thinking? We were thinking about the LE archery bull elk hunter on spike only units, as well as EVERY general season archery elk hunter. You seem to be against such, so I ask you, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? Are you only worried about yourself, or ALL archers?

PRO
 
PRO,

It doesn't matter what people do it is not good enough. Maybe a Sportsman Elk tag and the whole year to themselves would make 'em happy? ;-) I am not a bowhunter, but I like the fact that you are looking out for the LE guys. That would suck having to hunt with the general season guys the entire time with an LE in your pocket after 10 points or so. General Season in Utah=Cluster!

I will never understand the "move the any weapon season." If those dates are so important, put in for any weapon, then use your bow. I forgot, you want the best dates AND better draw odds right?
 
You wrote: "you can then, if desired, move to the any-bull units and hunt an additional 5 days, meaning every general-season archer has the OPPORTUNITY to hunt 28 days instead of 23 days."

The press release reads:
"The general archery elk hunt will still be 23 days long, but it will begin five days earlier. The general archery elk hunt begins Aug. 16, which is the same day the general archery buck deer hunt begins."

It does not distinguish between general archery spike hunt and general any bull hunt. Curious why you wrote that the general season any bull archery elk hunt will last 28 days? Is there press release wrong and just not giving the specifics of the entire schedule?

Also, was this proposal discussed in the RAC's? It was not in the proposed proclamation released to the public and or any of the publication for public review before the last round of RAC's. I didn't recall reading about this and had to email all my feedback to RAC members because of scheduling conflicts and could not attent prior to meeting date. The dates proposed are still posted on the website as previous proclamations listed. Any information would be helpful. Thanks. I had a LE archery hunt last year. I would of loved to have had 5 more days then.
 
Come on Ty, you KNOW better than that. I have clearly stated MANY times, why I believe the rifle hunt needs to be moved, because of the 90% success rate across the board. This limits the number of tags that can be issued, which reduces the number of tags that can be issued to ALL weapon choices. I'll even go so far to say, I am willing to leave the 'peak' of the rut void of ALL weapons, the 11 days that go to rifle hunters should be void of ALL hunting, move the rifle hunt into October. How about it, are you game? The 90% success rate is one of the MAJOR reasons for low tag numbers, along with the DWR/Wildlife Board having a lack of courage to issue MORE tags and manage to OBJECTIVES.

Guess what, if you make the rifle hunt less attractive and the archery hunt more attractive, the odds will get BETTER for rifle hunters and WORSE for archers, think about it. As it is, MANY archers apply for rifle permits because of the success rate being 1/3 for archery compared to that of the rifle, and since it is basically a once in a lifetime hunt, they opt for rifle to ensure/increase their odds of harvesting an animal. MANY of these hunters would switch back to archery if their odds of drawing more than once were better.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Nockhead, the season date changes are ONLY for spike only LE units. The spike hunt will start 5 days earlier than on any-bull areas. The LE hunters on the 10 spike only units will get a 28 day hunt as opposed to the 23 day hunt that LE archery hunters will get on the othe rLE units. Where the general any-bull hunter picks up an extra 5 days is, he can hunt for spikes/cows five days early, then jump to the any-bull units and hunt 23 more days if desired. The season dates for any-bull areas remain the same, we asked for more days, but that was amended from our proposal.

Yes, this was proposed at the RAC's, we sent a copy to EVERY RAC chair, and ALL but the SE RAC discussed it, we were unable to get a live body to that RAC. I personally introduced this at two RAC's and discussed it at length there and at the Wildlife Board meeting on Nov 29th.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Pro, I was also going to post the printed explanation from the dwr site, but someone already beat me to it. I too don't see where it says anything about the any bull units being able to hunt a little longer. Maybe it was typed up wrong or maybe it was explained to you guys at the meetings wrong, I guess we'll see when the proc comes out. Just so were clear, I'm all for giving the archery hunters more time, I just wish it would be taken from the any weapon season instead of being earlier. I too think that 90%+ sucess rates are rediculous.

As for what to do about it, I don't have a great master plan to fix it. What ever happened to that I400 plan that was being suggested on the DWR forum? Seems like when that forum disolved so did the plan. If the I400 is gone maybe we all need to come up with another plan to help guys get more than one LE tag in a lifetime. Maybe Utah should study the management plans of other states and try their plans. Sems to work for all of them.

->>>--Elkoholic8-->
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-07 AT 06:31PM (MST)[p]I agree with ktc. The any weapon hunt is just that...any weapon!
I know a guy (avid bow hunter)that held out for the any weapon hunt on Fishlake a couple years ago, but used his bow. He said it was worth the wait because of the experience of hunting in the middle of the rut. Dont come down on the rifle hunters just because 99% CHOOSE to use a rifle. To suggest to take away the LE hunts out of the rut all together is crazy. Thats what people are waiting for their 'once in a lifetime' hunts for.. is to get to hunt during the rut!!
I still dont get why people cant just enjoy harvesting cows and spike bull Elk. In my opinion there is no difference between taking a spike vs a raghorn. If some of these people had their way, thats all that would be left anyway.
I can tell you this too, when I do draw out someday, I better be part of the 90% after waiting all those years.
Lets see, the most fair season (any weapon) 90% odds and the Elk are getting bigger every year...I dont see how that sucks???
 
I fail to see the issue. Five more days to hunt, whenever they are to me, is exactly that, FIVE MORE DAYS TO HUNT!
 
bingo,

Thanks! At least I know I am not completely nuts? I think that is cool that guy hunted the any weapon with his bow. He looked past himself and set his goals under the rules. He did it his way!

pro,

The first paragraph was a compliment. The second one was to address the complaints from many bow hunters.
 
ktc, I got the compliment, thanks. My comments are based on concerns/complaints from MANY bow hunters as well. I talk with bow hunters EVERY day.

How is "setting his goals under the rules", doing it "his way"? Wouldn't me trying to improve things be "doing it MY way"? I have no problem with an archer using archery gear during the any-weapon hunt, but you are missing the point. Why should an archer HAVE to hunt then instead of during ARCHERY season? Make the archery hunt more appealing and the rifle hunt less appealing and more people will apply for archery tags and fewer will apply for rilfe/any-weappon tags than now. Supply and demand at it's finest. Rifle hunters should like this as it would improve their odds of drawing, think about it.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
If the LE Archery included five more days later in September, I would put in for Archery and not the Any Weapon. It would be interesting to really see how many others would switch.

Smokepole
 
Why not move the archery LE hunts to the lasst week of August and first 3 weeks of September; move LE ML to the last week of September, and the rifle LE to the first week of October.

That way everyone has a chance to hunt during the rut, giving the archer a better chance and making it a little more difficult for the any weapon hunters. I think this would spread out the apps so it wouldn't be so difficult to draw an any weapon hunt.

Just my opinion
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-07 AT 01:36PM (MST)[p]This may help the archery hunters a little. The last five days you have the "posse" out scouting for the rifle hunt, making sure you don't kill their bull. So it will not have a huge impact
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-07
>AT 01:36?PM (MST)

>
>This may help the archery hunters
>a little. The last
>five days you have the
>"posse" out scouting for
>the rifle hunt, making sure
>you don't kill their bull.
>So it will not have
>a huge impact

Since I am a member of the "posse" I can attest to the scouting being there NOW, and FYI, most of them out scouting are NOT "posse" members, they are 'average joes' with a rifle tag. And, if you truly believe removing spike hunters chasing bugles will not HELP LE archers not only in harvesting but enjoying their hunt more, you are CLUELESS about archery hunting. Judging from this and another post from you on the 5 day rilfe season thread, I see you are biased against archers.

PRO


Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-07 AT 02:30PM (MST)[p]Pro,
I hunt every year with a bow. In fact I have put in for LE archery elk for the last 12 years. I hope to draw an archery Elk tag this year with my 12 Utah, colorado, Arizona points. I have no desire to hunt elk with anything but a bow. I didn't say the change wouldn't help, I said it wouldn't make a huge impact. I have been on the LE archery elk hunt on the Beaver a couple of times with friends, and have more problems with guys scouting for the rifle hunt than spike elk hunters. On the other thread I am just trying to prove a point that bowhunters opportunity is far greater than the rifle and muzzleloader hunters combined.
 
LE archery conservation tags should be worth more now too.

Sorry, couldn't help it:)
 
>LE archery conservation tags should be
>worth more now too.
>
>Sorry, couldn't help it:)

That was my 'true' motivation, now the cat is out of the bag, thanks a lot!

PRO


Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
You are exhausting pro. I get a kick out of watching you guys claw and scratch for every opportunity you can get your hands on. Obviously something is working just how it is. You talk to bowhunters EVERY day, try listening to the other 85% for once.

I know, I know, I should have just let this one go, but I did not. Lets hear your manifesto of bowhunting elk.;-)
 
Pro, I knew it all along:) Just trying to gain the Godfather's good graces....;)hahaha

I know your doing what you thinks best, and I admire that. I also know your not doing it for money, power, or recognition.
 
FLEH,

Ha! I think I am stirring the pot. I need to let it go so pro does not go postal on me!;-) It is up to the guys with points to decide.
 
Ty, I WILL be the hunter in 2008, I am a lock to draw. So nothing I have done, nor any of the projects/proposals I am working on directly benefits me. In fact, some are NOT in my best personal interest. It's all good,, I see the extremely high success rates on the any-weapon hunts as a MAJOR 'limiting' factor for opportunity for elk hunters (ALL weapon choices) to be able to hunt big stinkys in Utah. By lowering the success rate, and actually managing to objectives set in the Elk Management Plan, a lot more elk hunters would be able to experience what you did in 2006, and what your wife did 3 months ago.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I am an avid bow hunter, and choose to hunt any animal with my bow over any other weapon on just about any hunt, except for the utah LE Elk hunt. I have been waiting for 9 years to draw, and I am not about to take my chances on 9 years to hunt a bull that is not during the rut, and having spike/cow/deer hunters to deal with as well. There for the better oppertunity for me in the end, is to deal with the horrible draw odds of the any weapon draw. There is no doubt in my mind that opening all or some units to the rut for the archers would pull people out of the any weapon draws. In turn increasing the "85%ers" draw odds! This is not about archers verses rifle hunters. Its about trying to make more oppertunity for everyone. Trying to make as many people happy as possible, and keeping hunting around for a long long time. I sometimes worry if my future kids will have the oppertunity to enjoy hunting like I do.
 
Blazingsaddles wrote: "I sometimes worry if my future kids will have the oppertunity to enjoy hunting like I do."

This is what I am motivated by. I am NOT content to sit by and let MY kids hunting opportunities be limited/wasted when I KNOW I can make a difference and improve their odds of enjoying what I enjoy so much. In fact, I refuse to do nothing and accept whatever happens to happen.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 

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