i was ashamed...

L

littlefoot

Guest
i was checkin' out another video posted by '30inchbuck' on 'youtube', which by the way, was terrific...when i ran across the following one...was good, right up till the end...fellow, whom i presume to be the 'guide' (?), was putting a tape on the bull, while the bull was actually lying there and still 'kicking'...i don't know....maybe it's just me.. i seldom get into 'controversy' when it comes to hunting. i think i just may have to much 'brotherhood' with the elk...i certainly still 'hunt' them. but, i guess i never actually realized how bad some folks just want that 'score'...for me, this was a 'bummer'...i actually would feel better if you didn't comment...sometimes, i just want to 'vent'....thanks..

 
Any animal that is ever taken is more than a made up score, for a made up scoring system.It's a life, and should be given its due respect.

Just me venting with you littlefoot
 
Littlefoot, I'm with you on this one. How can I not comment? It looked like a great hunt and good video all the way, but I would think they would finish off the kill, and should have, before letting us see the taping the rack. I know the excitement of it all, the thrill, the sadness...and the respecting of the animal. I think they miss that part in their hunt. It was a great looking bull and I'm glad to see hunters fill their tags. I'd just like to feel good about it when they share their video with us.
 
Thats a shame, Definately one of the hardest things to watch an animal suffer. Reminds me of a Tim McGraw song.


Timberline
 
Littlefoot, Just saw the video you mentioned, We need to put the animal out of any misery it has ASAP! That is wrong. Besides I hope no other hunters were in the area, the hunters vest sure could look like a elk but in the timber.
 
I thought the same thing I kept waiting for that elk to reach up and kick him right in the arse while he was bent over measuring. Lameduck
 
>Makes a good hunt look like
>a bunch of heartless rednecks
>out killing stuff.

Plenty of those out there...

I'm with you lilfoot.
Bad enough in private but to put it out there in video?
Come on.
HH
 
Whatever happenned to hunting ethics? It seems lately we are wanting to get the next best hunting video and glamour shot rather than taking care of animal we are hunting after it's been hit. Don't get me wrong I like all the cool stuff I see on this site, but now I'm beginning to question how some of us respect our hunting heritage.
 
When i see stuff like that it makes me ashamed for hunters. I feel the same way when i see the Primos guys jumping up and down like southern redneck sissy cheerleaders right after the kill.
 
I think we're all venting here right along with you littlefoot.

Very hard video to watch. I couldn't agree more with each post here! This is BS and they should be ashamed to call themselves hunters.

No respect for what hunting is truly about. All they care about are the numbers. Anyone know who these A~^H@<}S are? What guide service? I would like to send them an email or maybe a phone call.


- Rich
 
If they would have had a beer in hand it would have made it even beter. Cant the DWR take that video and atleast issue a ticket for not wearing orangs, they should atleast deserve that for there inconsideration of putting such dumbacts on youtube for the world to see, and to give hunting the bad name.
 
You know right off they're a bunch of idiots...what kind of an a$$hole carries a measuring tape when they hunt?
 
I have to agree. What a bunch of dipshits. To the hunter, if he is reading this, go hunt inside high fences where you belong.
 
I say the elk was good and dead. I have seen deer and cattle do the same thing after being dead for 10 minutes. Those movements are not the same as a dying animal. It looks like they are there for a few minutes before the "twitching" and the elk is not breathing or moving it's head (something dying animals usually do). I agree that it looks bad, but I would bet that he's dead.

Andy


-----------------------------------------------
http://www.trophyblogger.com/Andymansavage
 
The record books have far outlived the purpose for which they were started in the first place...... I too am ashamed..... Terry
 
Makes me sick to see that littlefoot. I wish I had never seen it.


buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 
I didn't even watch the video because I don't want to get all riled up. Sounds like a bunch of idiots that shouldn't be hunting in the first place. They have forgotten what hunting is all about.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-07 AT 03:13PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-07 AT 12:48 PM (MST)

Browtine
The title of the video is Clay Nelson's 2007 Elk Hunt on Boulder Mountain. Some one should know who the "guides" were.
Wes
 
Andyman, you are not seeing the picture, yes we have all seen animal die, or dead, it just a flat shame that while the animal is still kicking that people are to worried about the score of the animal, atleast they could have edited the video, I mean good heck what were they going to do measure the bull half dead then if it isn't big enough run off.
 
Again, my point is that the animal is dead. I filmed my cousin shooting his first 3 point and when he lifts up the head the mouth closes. The deer had been dead for 15 minutes. Should I edit out his most exciting hunting moment ever? We don't hesitate to show a perfectly live animal take a bone shattering bullet to the shoulder and spit blood as it hobbles off , why the outrage over a dead animals post humous muscle twitches? The guys were excited. So what? You don't have to measure an animal, but I bet you do at some point. Do they have to wait a day? A week? Its their hunt, why attack a fellow hunter? Other that thelack of orange, looks like a great hunt.

Andy

-----------------------------------------------
http://www.trophyblogger.com/Andymansavage
 
I also think it was dead - but they should have made sure of that first. Yes, some animals will twitch post-mortem, but they could have just as easily cut the femoral artery and bled it out, and made sure it was dead before they did this. I agree there definitely should be more respect for the animal given. This is also a matter of safety. A wounded animal is a dangerous animal and will fight if it can. The last deer I killed had a broken back and was expiring slowly. As I approached it, it was trying to hook me and if it could, would have gored me. I immediately shot it in the neck to make sure it was out for sure. Yes I lost some neck meat and yes it did ding the cape a little, but it did not suffer any longer than necessary.

Give it some time - you don't need to be so anxious. I hate to see an animal suffer needlesly, If it is a small animal and I am not interested in keeping the cape, I will cut its throat to make sure it expires quickly. If I do want the cape then I will cut the femoral artery The next thing I do is hit my knees and give thanks. None of this would ever be on tape either. Their is a time for filming and a time for shutting the camera off.




UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Just my two cents, but I've seen quite a few elk die and have never seen an elk or any other animal for that matter "twitch" to the extent the bull does in this video post mortem. Don't get me wrong, he was dying, but it's just that, I think he was still dying while they broke out the tape to see what the bull scored. As stated above, they could have easily shown the bull a little more respect and shut the camera off and made sure the bull was dead before the scoring began. Again, just my two cents.
 
I think we all share some of the blame for this type behavior, we worship the numbers. Thumbing threw the past pages here you see how important numbers have became. This is just a clear example of how silly it really has gotten, when someone whips out his tape the second he approaches an animal.
A good post to help put things into perspective.
 
I think anyone who wants to judge a "hunter" or a "guide" off of 2 minutes worth of video is a dipsh!t themselves. None of you were there were you? How do you know the details of this hunt? I'll start by saying yes hunter orange should have been worn. They are completely wrong for that. But to say the hunter should hunt "high fence where he belongs" is absolutely ridiculous! Everyone wants to complain and know who this guide is. Where in the video or in the above posts does it state he was guided? I've helped friends and family members out on hunts before, does that make me a guide? Not in the least bit. It could be a relative or good friend of the hunters. Next, if you are helping someone and they say I'd like to kill a 360 bull and you found this bull for them and after watching it for who knows how long, and we don't know due to editing, they finally shoot it, you're walking up to it and the hunter says do you think it's 360, what's wrong with pulling out a tape and checking a couple of the measurements to see if you are close? Has no one ever seen this done before by a ?guide?? If not why don't you look at Mossback?s Skoronski Bull from last year. For those of you who have never had an animal ?twitch? after its dead I don't know what to tell you. I've seen it; I've had deer twitch on me after I'm sure they're not breathing 10 minutes later. Do we know how long they waited before walking up to the bull? Is the video unedited from the shots to the point where they are with the bull? No it's not. They may have waited 30 minutes for all we know before walking up to it, and when they finally do it happens to twitch. Did you want him to step back and shoot it again? Someone mentioned slitting an artery. But if they watched it without movement for even 10 minutes and then it twitches I would think it was dead and not suffering. I'll be the first to say if an animal is suffering it is not cool, and all measures should be taken to ensure a quick lethal end for its life. But this elk looks dead to me. And if a hunter is curious about the score that's his business as to when he measures it. I agree that too much emphasis has been put on scores, it is very sad, but if a guy wants to worry about it he can.
 
Yeah, they do "twitch" sometimes. That was not a post mortem neural impulse. You can see the diaphram contracting. That bull was dying, not dead, and that little underslung nitwit is laying the tape to him. Disgusting example of an unhealthy interest in inches.
 
Yeah, I agree with ya Littlefoot... a little depressing!

Hmmm, thats weird *(sarcasm)*, I don't see any orange either!
 
Ya! well this guy happens to be a personal friend. I have never met a more dedicated sportsman. I'm sure when you kill something "LITTLEFOOT" it is CLEAN ... You always wear orange ... and only share what you think is appropriate.

As for the rest of you wannabe's you wouldn't make a good smelling fart in this hunters pants. And I mean that!!! Why don't one of you HEROS post video of your immaculate kills?

RUS
 
well...i knew this was going to happen, and i knew i should have 'shut up'...but, i didn't...'rus'..please take note that i never mentioned the 'shooter'...as far as i knew, he was doing everything appropriate, and truly enjoying himself. i had no idea where they were hunting, and had no idea that hunter orange was a requirement...that being said, yes, i do in fact, always wear my hunter orange....it is the law here in washington. if he in fact was required to wear hunter orange, and did not, i don't know that that would be what i would call a 'dedicated sportsman'...that being said, i am sure he is a nice guy, and i am sure you are a good friend, and i met no animosity towards him. what i did 'mention', was re: whom appeared to be the 'guide'... and, yes...i usually share everything, but if i do find it to be inappropriate, i would not...guilty as charged. i am sure, that if you would please re-read my post, i never alluded to your friend. i am sorry you 'took it' that way. i won't 'do this' again...gentry scott (littlefoot)
 
Rus, I have good friends that I'd stand up for anyday just like you. Not saying he is a bad guy, only saying in this instance they should of made sure the animal was completely dead before the tape came out. 5 minutes later is not going to make any difference on the score. As you know, any video will be viewed by many. I;m sure the people involved are good sportsman but we need present a better image of all us hunters.
 
Hey guys, he was wearing his hunter orange. It was on the inside of his camo vest. That is so when they see the fish cop they can hurry and change it to become legal. This guy showed no respect for the law, nor the game he chased. Sounds like a real great hunter to me. Just another Utard dumb enough to video his illegal actions.

Rus sticking up for him is like a parent always telling the teacher "not my kid". Standing up for someone is knowing they have done right, but are accused of doing wrong. Big difference between "standing up for" and "standing by" someone.

Littlefoot, thanks for posting this. You done right.
 
2_ point ... you seem to be one of them wannabe's I was talking about.

Littlefoot ... I can certianly see how you could come to the conclusions you did. Made me stop & think about some of the comments I have made on this web site.

It's a shock when you see a really good sportsman and friend being roasted by those that don't even know him.

Trust me Clay Nelson is one of the "Goodguys"

RUS
 
EASY RUS!!!

WE DON'T WANT TO OVERLOAD & BLOW THE FORUM OFF THE MAP!!!

I DIDN'T WATCH THE FOOTAGE SO I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING!!!

I OFTEN WONDER IF Beefy KEEPS A CUP MEASURE HANDY JUST TO MEASURE "EM"???

469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
>
>It's a shock when you see
>a really good sportsman and
>friend being roasted by those
>that don't even know him


Funny RUS seems I remember you doin a little roasting your self. No big deal didn't watch the video and could careless. Your comments however are a bit hypocritical to say the least.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-07 AT 09:12PM (MST)[p]I am a WANNABE!!

I wanna teach my kids to disrespect animals.

I wanna teach my kids the laws do not matter, especially the trivial ones.

I'll stop there and edit my post.
 
Yup! 1st of all, I want to apologize to Littlefoot .. he didn't disparage anyone! 2nd, you are absolutely correct NUNYA. I hope I learned something from this thread. 3rd, well .... let's just say I've said enough.

RUS
 
IF the hunter in the video was required to wear orange and didnt, I would be expecting a knock on the door by the Game and Fish. He needs to be ticketed and fined accordingly and should be required to take a remedial hunters education course. Just like anyone else that would fail to follow the rules.

The dip$hit with the tape....what a tool. Its unethical hacks like him that dont even deserve the right to hunt.

There is nothing wrong with just leaving that elk alone to die before you start taping it. Leave the tape in the truck or better yet at camp or at home.
 
I am not going to rail on somebody I dont know. We know nothing about him except he made a huge mistake and posted a distasteful video on youtube. Hell, we all make mistakes. I hope this guy can come on MM after hearing about it from his good buddy Rus and learn from this mistake. I hope he takes the video off youtube and makes a mental note to abide by the laws of the given state and to dispatch his next animals in a more timely fashion.

Drum



dan-henderson_wanderlei-silva.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-07 AT 10:11PM (MST)[p]If these guys act this way with a camera running and think their behavior/ethics are good enough to put on youtube...It makes a person wonder what they do when the cameras arent running?
 
Holey S&!* what a bunch of whiney basturds, who cares whether or not the guy is wearing his orange or not, is it affecting you persnaly, is it really makeing that much of a difference to YOU wether or not the guy is wearing his orange.

I wear my orange on all my rifle hunts, but Im not going to get butt hurt over some one else not wearing theres.

Heres a thought worry about yourselves not what everyone else is doing, and quit b*#%ing about it.

I think some people just want to find something to b!*#% about.

And im not talking about just this post, just about every pic that the hunter is not wearing orange in it you can bet there will be someone saying something, "wheres your orange" "next time how bout puting some orange on".

And if its not that, its something else, its prety bad when I can look at a pic posted and know exactly the moment I see it that someone is going to b!*%# about it latter on in the thread.

Littlefoot, this is not directed at you, I didnt watch the video you are talking about so I dont have a comment on it, I guess Im just venting aswell. Sorry about that.



Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
I bet old Clay didn't know his buddys posted this on youtube. I think this is about his friends (guides) ethics. I understand being caught up in the momment and doing silly things, however that is why we edit film before we take it to the public. I'm sure PETA would love to get their hands on this one. The hunters orange is like wearing a seat belt. It's for your own protection. Maybe the DWR needs to make a commercial with a guy getting shot not wearing his orange and then say "hunters orange it's the law". So how many of you orange bashers wear your seatbelt 24/7? I know I don't. So I can't bash a guy for not wearing his orange.
 
I'm with you Peak. I'll bet Clay may not even know the video was posted. I know the guy, and he IS a fine sportsman. It kills me to see all the holier than thou's come out and bash someone they don't know. I was on a limited entry rifle elk hunt this year and run into several hunters. Not one was wearing orange. Hell, one of the guides even had a guillie suit on! As for the bull...killing is never pretty fellas. I'll bet every single person on this site has had a bad experience one time or another. And a good clean kill like Clay's isn't one of them. It looked to me that the "guide" was caught up in the moment, and went in to soon.
 
Standing over an animal while it dies is something that just happens when hunting. I know everyone on here has had it happen.
It sucks but its part of the deal sometimes. Just dont stretch the F'n tape on it!!!! Show a little respect and leave the tape in camp.
 
Not sure how many of you fellas were in the middle of the anti hunting and trapping actions that were so prominant in the early 90's but this was the exact stuff that were used against us and plastered over every newspaper, magazine, and news broadcast across the Country. This is what the PETA yahoos use to pursuade the public to change what we love so much. Hopefully there are a group of hunters that have seen this video that will learn from it. I too video and I know there are some things that most would not like to see in the harvesting of an animal. I am sure it was not the intension of the hunters to put this kind of bad publicity out there but it happened and it sure made me think about what I do with my own videos. Dont miss the point of this thread! Anti's are always watching....
 
>Not sure how many of you
>fellas were in the middle
>of the anti hunting and
>trapping actions that were so
>prominant in the early 90's
>but this was the exact
>stuff that were used against
>us and plastered over every
>newspaper, magazine, and news broadcast
>across the Country. This is
>what the PETA yahoos use
>to pursuade the public to
>change what we love so
>much. Hopefully there are a
>group of hunters that have
>seen this video that will
>learn from it. I too
>video and I know there
>are some things that most
>would not like to see
>in the harvesting of an
>animal. I am sure it
>was not the intension of
>the hunters to put this
>kind of bad publicity out
>there but it happened and
>it sure made me think
>about what I do with
>my own videos. Dont miss
>the point of this thread!
>Anti's are always watching....

Riman.......I coudl not agree more!@!! I think the big problem is this is something that the ANTIS could use against us! The whole wearing orange comments are just plain STUPID!!! but I do think that we should all THINK a little bit as to what we post for ALL to see!!!
 
This has nothing to do with PETA or other animal rights groups. Go to the PETA website. Take some time and click around in there. Do you see anything to do with anti-hunting? Do you see any hunting video in there? No. Would PETA like to see hunting outlawed? Without a doubt. But hunting is not on PETA's radar and is not a significant part of its agenda. It sure would be nice to keep it that way.

The point of this thread, as you can see from the vast majority of responses, is about being decent. It's about having some respect for the animal you hunt and kill. The video here did not evidence any respect for that bull by anyone on the video, including the shooter.
 
Whiney Bastards???
No.
Let me tell you something.
We ain't back in the 60's or 70's.
I used to dig seeing the parade of racks on the roofs of pickups stream down I-80 in October.
You don't see much of that any more.
Why?
Hunters kind of pressured each other to respect the feelings of the non hunting public.
Like it or not it is the non hunting public that is going to shape the future of the sport that we love so much.
When they get turned off or repulsed by the actions they witness, their opinions of whether hunting is right or wrong hangs in the balance.
As I have witness firsthand, all it takes is a ballot measure to eliminate forever what you thought was a God given right.
What percentage of youtube veiwers are hunters?
In my opinion, damn few.
I hate having to be politically correct and have certainly made my share of mistakes in the past.
I have seen some pretty gruesome deaths.
It ain't about being a politically correct pusssy.
It's about trying to preserve our heritage.
In my youth, I probably would have said "fuggem" too, but now as a father, I often try to look at the world through my son's eyes.
I want him to be able to enjoy the same incredible experiences that I have been able to.
If that means being a little PC at times, well I can live with that.
Rus, I too meant no respect toward your friend.
The orange thing really didn't bother me.
That is on them.
Now that I'm in my late 40's I just seem to have more reverence for the value of that spark of life, especially in the magnificent creatures that we pursue.
There is no true joy in watching that spark of life leave the body of a beautiful animal, and to display a complete disrespect of this value shows callousness and irreverence toward the resource.
I used to dislike the "photo police" that would criticize a photo with too much blood or a tongue hanging out.
Guess I'm just getting old.
HH
 
HH,

Great post.

No, you're not getting old...you've just matured as a hunter to a point that you really appreciate and respect the animals you hunt and kill. You dont have to be old to be a mature hunter and just because a guy is sixty years old doesnt mean he doesnt act like a 12 year old as a hunter.

The guys in that video will always be dumb-a$$ed 12 year olds. Its just too bad they can be afforded the same hunting opportunities as everyone else, they dont deserve the privilege.
 
Think you kinda missed the point BUZZ. Oh well!

RUS

"Behind every great woman is a guy commenting on how BIG her butt is getting"
 
I wonder why he even had to put a tape on it. With all his hand motions I could already tell that it scores 357 or 360 somethig. And then when he shot, OH MY HELL HE HIT THE CAMERA MAN! Just plain sad.
 
http:www.elknut.com

WOW1! I've now watched this video 3 times looking for something ethically distasteful, hmmm, don't see anything yet. I'm an elk hunter too, as many here are. But let's be reasonable & realistic about this video & real life hunting situations, was it crude, turn your stomach type of a hunt, was there ridiculous hooraying & distasteful laughter such as some of the primos videos, (not all but some) if so where? It's not unusual to have to fire 3 shots to put an elk down, they're tough critters. We all like one shot kills but, unfortunately it doesn't always happen so backup shots are needed especially in thick country. Shoot that elk till it drops, too many stories & experiences where ones hit & is never seen again. Those with plenty of kills under their belt will recognize these death or dying effects as well as curdling death moans. Yes I've heard those too on TV.

I see the bull still had some muscle movement happening on approach & grabbing the antlers, well, that's pretty normal as well, only problem I have with that is a guy could get the crap kicked out of him so should be a little more careful & concerned for others, other than that, no big deal! If you're one after the death that makes the sign of the cross or says a small prayer or burn a candle or something else, that's great, but not all do this, it doesn't show disrespect either way, different strokes for different folks. I personally do not go out of my way & do anything unusual but I don't ridicule others that do, I'd show them complete respect.

There are plenty of videos out their for the viewing & the Outdoor Channel that show the shot of a rifle or bow where on impact blood flashes the side of the animal & he staggers like a drunken sailor or one is it high in the spine & it drops yet kicks uncontrollably for 5-6 more minutes no matter how many more shots you dump into him, even in the head. Guys, this is real life hunting, it's not dis-respecting the animal, he just won't die quick enough at times. We all hate seeing animals suffer & want as quick & humane a death as possible yet at times quivering & kicking around are the results on our approach, nothing unethical about it, just fact.

Same as fisherman holding fish & they're thrashing around with hooks in their jaw & then a guy rapping it with a club or something, is that unethical too? I think not, just part of the process.

I showed my wife this video just minutes ago, (she's not a big hunter) & asked her what she thought about it? I did not tell her of any of the previous comments, I wanted her honest evaluation, she had 2 comments as they happened, one--that guy better watch out he doesn't get kicked. The other, who carries a tape measure with them in the woods? I asked her if she was upset or appalled by it, she said no, why should I, I've seen worse on fishing shows. I laughed, well sorta just grinned. But you know she's right, because she has!

I explained to her that it was unusual to have a tape but maybe too that guy it wasn't, he was probably excited & couldn't believe the size of him & quickly yanked it out to verify some lengths & the true trophy that it was, no big deal there. I've been in on well over a 100 elk kills with both bow & rifle & have taken countless hunters out some show excitement different than others. Some act like this guy in the video & others just flat out cry, those are very touching & special moments, I guess it's all how a guy looks at it. If you need it sugar coated maybe you shouldn't be hunting, photography may suit one better. No offense meant to anyone. But I personally see nothing on that video to be ashamed of. Clay, congrats on a great bull !!!

ElkNut1
 
I respect your opinion Elknut.
However, I'll bet your wife is really not a fair example of an unbiased viewer.
My wife or many guy's who are avid hunters wouldn't be either.
They are accustom to the fact that we kill animals and call it sport.
They are comfortable with that or they wouldn't be around.
It is the people that are in the middle or the ones that feel a little queasy about killing for fun that would be more offended.
I don't really enjoy being told that I am weak spirited because I don't want the public to see every graphic detail of a kill.
Hell, I've seen bad shots, animals dragging their guts, long recovery treks where the animal is dragging a broken leg etc..etc...
Because that does occasionally happen and is reality, should that too be broadcast on tv and the internet?
Just like trapping, I enjoyed the anticipation of checking the line and the thrill of catching a beautiful bobcat, fox or coyote.
Some very enjoyable outdoor moments when I was young were spent trapping.
If you were there with a camera filming the animal writhing in pain, violently struggling to survive it's final moments of life, you think it would be good for the sport to paste it on youtube?
Trapping was banned here and elsewhere just because of that sort of thing.
Don't compare a fish to big game animals.
You know as well as I do that the public has different standards for fuzzy animals with big brown eyes.
Besides, nearly all the fish I photograph are released to finish their life cycle.
Yes, they feel pain and struggle for life, but most humans have hypocritical views on cold blooded animals.
Yes, we see a lot of less than perfest kill scenes on tv.
Should those graphic images be put on public display?
Who knows?, that may have negative impacts down the road as well.
I know as well as anyone what the real world is.
I've killed hundreds of animals.
I am covered in blood nearly every day of my life, I make my living slicing animal flesh.
I just feel we live in an era where we have to be on guard and present the cleanest image possible, so that our future generations can enjoy the things that we have.
HH
 
Hmmm, I don't know how to feel. I think it could have been a sticky situation if he would've gotten kicked. I also think it looks bad putting a tape measure to him while he still kicking. Gives the impression that they don't care about the animal, just whats sticking out of his head.

That being said, I wasn't there. I can't judge someone elses actions if I wasn't present to interpret his mindset.

I also believe that we have nothing to hide as hunters. As soon as we start trying to hide the reality of our sport we are in a sense submitting ourselves to someone elses rules of whats ok and not ok. That someone else being anti-hunters or even non-hunting public.

There is nothing wrong with being excited about a successful kill. Example: I have NO PROBLEM with the Primos crew and how they celebrate. I celebrate and I don't give a SH!T what anyone thinks about it! I'll do a touchdown dance if so choose. I may even crack a beer once I get back to camp to celebrate.

I understand what littlefoot is saying and in a sense I agree, I'm not big on the numbers game. I personally think the numbers game is as detrimental to hunting as being ultra sensative to public scrutiny and complaining about such things as celebrating a successful kill. Native americans used to dance around a fire all night after a successful hunt.

Who gives a sh!t what the anti's think, we're not going to change thier minds guys!

Donnie
 
Donnie,

You're right, you wont change the mind of an anti...no need to worry about them. Thier minds are made up.

Its the 80% of people (vast majority) that dont care one way or the other about hunting that you have to worry about.

The kind of crap displayed on that video wont help the 80% decide that hunters really do care about wildlife.
 
You do have a point there Buzz, I didn't consider that, I guess there are considerations we as hunters need to make before we let the general public see how we conduct ourselves. I don't believe as some do that there is anything wrong with celebrating a successful kill though. That attitude comes across to me as elitist and I refuse to inhibit my excitement because others will call me a redneck. I wonder what uncle Ted would say about all this.

Donnie
 
Littlefoot,

I don't think you have anything to apoloigise for and i could not agree with you more.

What the hell is wrong with yelling and jumping around after you make a killing shot on a trophy of a lifetime or any clean kill for that matter?????????????

Primos make some of the most ethical and well made movies on the market.If you think a little yelling and fist pumping is distasteful and unethical....never watch a Jackoff Britingham movie or you will reallllly be disapointed.
 
http:www.elknut.com


It's very surprising how many are so willing to slap their "hunting heritage" & hunting privilege right in the face, so many are showing a true fear instead of being fearless in the eyes of those that oppose your whole way of life.! Next thing you know you'll be hush-hush about sharing hunting stories to friends, family, neighbors, folks at the grocery store, post office, while having a drink at the bar or resteraunt, etc. You are literally playing right into those hands who are against hunting & their organizations, they've got some of you scared like mis-treated puppies, & "that's ashame" why? Because this is exactly what they want!

This doesn't mean you should make crude videos & condone everything that is obviously wrong or throw things in their face just to pi$$ them off, we still must be considerate & compassionate of others but not to the point of not standing up for what we know is right in our hearts! Anti hunters will always complain, it doesn't matter if there were no videos to view. They'd complain about your leather jacket, purse,shoes,hats, furs & so on, so what!!! You're never going to make them happy so don't loose sleep over trying.

Not trying to make enemies here, but come on guys stop hiding things like you're trying to get away with something, be balanced & stand up for what's right! The constitution says we have the right to bear arms, we do & we always will, the antis will never over throw that hurdle, period! I agree they can make things tough on us & they do but we in their terms also make it tough on them. It's a never ending roller coaster. I can promise you I'll never hide behind the skirt of an anti hunter, doesn't mean I'll provoke them but by God I'll stand up for what I know is my rights. I'll not bow down or feel insecure around a one of them, instead I'll stand up vocally & share my personal reasons why it's a way of life for me & my family. They don't like it tough! I don't appreciate their one sidedness either!
I could go on but you get the point!

As for primos videos, you bet they're entertaining, I've seen 3 of them. I guess when I think about it it's only when they're giggling around like teenage girls & rolling on the ground & on the animal kind of in an uncontrolled manor that I don't like. But that's just me, I'm not starting a thread about it & trying to convince others to please side with me, it's just an opinion & nothing more. As I mentioned earlier I thought possibly that's what this youtube video might have been about?

Nothing wrong with a small celebration & high fives & some beers, the only thing wrong with that is if you don't call me!! (grin)

ElkNut1
 
? The hunter shows disrespect for the law by not wearing hunter orange, even if the violation is a small one ? it's magnified by a forum user stating he is one of the good guys ? thus implied he is above the rules...
? What appears to be the guide, shows disrespect to the elk by taking a measurement before the bull is clearly gone ? he has no fear of the bull so I'm guessing he knows it's simply a matter of time. However, this type of confidence / experience also holds him to a higher ethical standard to respect the moment of death ? thus the majority of MM forum users have a problem with his actions.
? The video producers show disrespect for the hunting community by not editing 20sec of questionable tape ? they continue to show the video even today after so much push back from the majority on the forum.

What I think is strange is why not edit the ?taping section? of the video; not wearing hunter orange may have been noted by some but overall it's a fantastic bull, exciting stalk, and produced well.
 
I want to give an opinion. Not that it matters, but I do not see the big deal.

If the guy chooses not to wear orange he is the one risking fines and death. Not me. Look at my wife's bull picture. She has on orange and I do not. If it is such a big deal then should everyone wear orange during big game season? People helping without tags, hikers, bikers, and rock collectors?

I hate to say it, but every beef I have slaughtered lays kicking for 5-10 minutes and is dead as a door-nail. The animal is dead folks.

I am not much into the video thing myself. I would not put that video or any other on YouTube. A few stills, but no videos. The videographer could have used better judgement than put that on the web, but every animal that is killed will kick for a bit. I don't care if you hunt or not, your Big Mac kicked for a bit.

The tape was tacky, but who cares? Every one of us tapes them at some point. What is the difference, you still tape them.

What is in good taste is a matter of opinion. I really think the rock and roll during the hunt on the video is stupid. Does that make it exciting, or just make the edit job stupid? Look at huntsonoras signature line. I think that is out of taste watching some meat head pile drive another guy with an elbow when knocked cold.
 
I think HH made the best statement in this thread, "There is no true joy in watching that spark of life leave the body of a beautiful animal, and to display a complete disrespect of this value shows callousness and irreverence toward the resource."

I feel the same way.

No question that animals take a while to die...but why do people like those in the video have to run up and start measuring an animals antlers before its completely gone? WTF is so important about measuring a rack that you cant wait a couple minutes? WTF is wrong with people? Just a lack of respect for the animal plain and simple.

Let the animal die in relative frickin' peace.

A good friend of mine made a comment one day as we were approaching an antelope he'd shot in the spine. After shooting the animal to finish it, he requested we just back off and let it die. His reason was simply, "I dont want the last thing that antelope to see as its dying is a person."

THAT is total respect for the animal, and I have always had a lot of respect for my friend after that.

The animals we hunt deserve the utmost respect, and those idiots in that video showed ZERO respect for that animal. All they cared about was how much it scored.

I dont and never will condone that type of behavior, totally unacceptable.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-07 AT 08:05PM (MST)[p]Honestly ... watch the video again ... Please!!! It's a record of a clean kill. If it was a "Extream Bulls" or "Mossback" or one of those glitzy videos, would you guys be puking your guts out? ... I sh't you not!!!! this guy is a better sportsman and hunter than 90% of the people on this web site! GIVE IT A REST!

RUS
 
clitoRUS!!!

WHERE TF DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT FIGURE???

WE'VE BEEN JUDGED!!!

I HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE FOOTAGE!!!

I GUESS HE'S BETTER THAN ME THOUGH!!!

HE'S GOT A BIG STINKY & I DON'T!!!

IF I EVER PULL A PERMIT,IS IT MANDATORY I BUY ME A MEASURING TAPE???

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Breath through your nose STINK FINGER ... me & you are in the 10% of good guy's ... although I'm not entirely positive about you.

RUS
 
Clean Kill?! Three shots is a clean kill? What are you smoking? Watch it again this time pay attention. If it was a clean kill this wouldn't be a discussion then.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-07 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-07 AT 09:42?PM (MST)

Yeah, your buddy is in the 10% of hunters that doesnt even follow the most basic of regulations.

But, rest assured, he's one of the "good guys".

What a joke.
 
Alright, alright, alright... this is getting stupid. What the heck is all poop slinging gonna get us. Ok so they made a tacky video, oh well whats done is done. "WE" all sound like a bunch of teenage girls arguing over a stolen boyfriend. Notice the WE in quotations! That means we're all on the same team here guys. There is no reason to keep draggin' this on. Ok Rus, your buddies the king of all hunters, great! Ok, he didn't have orange on... fine, I'll bet he doesn't make that mistake again. The guide was a tool for measuring an animal before it was dead, again, I bet he doesn't do it again! Are we done now????

Donnie
 
Donnie!!!

RUS'S HEAD JUST SWELLED A LITTLE MORE,LOL!!!

((( JUST RAZZIN YOU RUS!!! )))

BET WE AIN'T DONE YET???

ANY TAKERS ON PLACING A BET???

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
BuzzH, post 68 raised the hair on my neck! I couldnt agree more when it comes to the respect of the animal.You have it figured out in my opinion! Nothing worse when i see an animal running off wounded. It just happens and their aint much we can do about it except practice our shootin skills, dont take unethical shots, and just having respect.
I had a hunter show up this year for a guided deer hunt. The first thing he told me was "I am not here for the horns, I am here for the hunt". Talk about a genuine HUNTER in my book! I would guide this guy for free for the rest of his tag drawing days just to get to hunt with someone that understands what it is all about! I too am still caught up in the "bigger is better" mindset but we could all learn a lot from the older generations!
Hopefully we all get the point of hunting before we self destruct! And yes I am right there in the middle of it...
 
So, in conclusion, putting a tape to an elk that is still kicking is like a guy who wears womens underware. It's legal but doesn't look all that attractive. So, if you're going to do either one, don't video tape it and for sure don't put it on the www.

Just trying to put it in a humerous perspective.
 
As to whether the animal is dead or not who knows. All I know is I think it is a little disrespectful to immediately throw a tape on an animal first crack out of the box. Taking an animals life is a sacred event to me and I always give thanks to the maker and take a moment to admire the beast. I leave measuring and scoring the animal until after I have it cleaned and have the animal back to camp or back to home.

Don't measure your pleasure in pounds and inches.
 

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