Utah Elk Proposal

[bragabit]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-08 AT 03:48PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-08 AT 03:31?PM (MST)

The "Utah Elk Debate" has got me thinking of possible ways to add opportuntity and YES the experience for more hunters. Here is something that I have been thinking of. I would like to hear your opinions on these changes. Lets use this years dates to make it easier. Hopefully I can get my thoughts accross.

This years archery dates:
General Season Deer: Aug 16-Sept.12
LE Archery Elk: Aug 16-Sept.12
Proposed change:
General season Deer: Aug 16-Sept.12
LE Archery Elk Aug 16-Sept.14
Pro: The "arguably" best two days of the season, the elk hunters would not have the general season deer hunter to contend with.

Rifle dates this year:
Sept. 13-23
Proposed:
Sept.15-21
Reason: Looking at the 2006 harvest stats. on the early rifle elk hunt the average number of days hunted was between 4 and 5. The last six to seven days of the rifle hunt are not being used by very many hunters.

Muzzleloader dates this year:
General Season Deer
Sept.24-Oct2
LE Muzzleloader Elk
Sept24-oct2
Proposed:
General season Muzzleloader Deer
Sept.24-Oct.2
LE Muzzleloadr Elk
Sept.22-Oct2
Reason: The "arguably" best two days of the muzzleloader hunt. The Elk hunters would not be competing with the general season deer hunters

So in summary the rifle hunt would be cut to 7 days from 11 giving the bow and muzzy hunters each two more days in the rut and without general deer season pressure. The rifle hunt as is is 11 days and the average days hunted is betwwen 4 and 5 for almost all units.
The downfall I see is that the rifle hunt would start on a Monday and not have a full weekend to hunt.

The two days without general season deer hunting pressure would increase the overall "experience" greatly for the archery, and muzzy hunters.
It is real sad to see that Utahs premier archery hunts had this kind of success in 2006:
Pahvant-------33
Beaver--------13
SW Desert-----54
San Juan------29

If shortening the rifle hunt dropped the success by 10 percent then you could add 10 percent tags and increase opportunity.

This is just an idea I have been thinking about, not trying to push it on anyone.

What do you guys think?

 

[ktc]

LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I THINK!

I think I am staying out of this as I promised.;-)

 

[blazingsaddle]

I'm a bow hunter and love the idea of having two days with no other hunts. Its fair for the muzzy hunters on their end as well. But the only problem I see is the same as yours, that the average rifle hunter hunts 4-5 days. Those 4-5 days are most likely the weekends. For most people unfortunatly, work comes before hunting.
What would happen if you pushed all LE hunts back by 2-4 days later in the year? And not cut any days from any hunts?

 

[bragabit]

Just curious KTC how many days did you, and your wife hunt on your hunts.

 

[bragabit]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-08 AT 03:56PM (MST)[p]I feel that if you moved the hunts all back 2-4 days you would make the archery hunt better, but it would effect the Muzzleloader hunt in the opposite way. On rifle hunts that I have been on by the third and fourth day everyone is shooting any "good" bull they see. By the second weekend there are very few hunters left.

 

[Antler1]

Ah come on ktc us poor old rifle hunters need all the support we can get. I don't blame you though I'm tired of it to.

Bragabit,
I can see where this is leading. I just hope you take into account the average days archery elk hunters hunted was 12.

 

[blazingsaddle]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-08 AT 04:49PM (MST)[p]Antler1
Of coarse the days by the archers were more, but you have to look at the success rates? If I may, I think the idea is to get more tags, and not affect the quality, by subtle/slow changes. And still treat all hunters as fair as possible. Who would not be for that concept?

brag
True it would affect the muzzy shooters on their end, in my opinion though, the between the muzzy and the archery, the muzzys have more "play room" in the timing of the rut. I'm only talking about 2-4 days. Just a thought.

 

[Antler1]

Blaz,
I'm all for slow subtle changes that won't affect quality. It's worked well for the last 15 years.

If fairness is the goal lets have one two week hunt, smack dab in the middle of the rut. We can all pick our weapon or pack all three and have a ball.

Been in this arguement to many years now. I did well and stayed out of the last round. These topics are like an old girl friend. They are fun at first, tempting to go back to, but not worth the high blood pressure.

 

[bragabit]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-08 AT 05:16PM (MST)[p]Antler1,
I do not want to diminsh the quality of the rifle hunt. Look at the results.

2006
Unit success Days hunted


PAHVANT 100 4.0
SWDESERT 100 4.6
BEAVER 95 3.8
SAN JUAN 96 5.0
MONROE 100 2.3
PANGUITCH LAKE 100 3.1

I count 50 limited entry early rifle hunts. One of the fifty had an average days hunted over 6. How many hunters need the 11 days. The rifle dates are the premium days, if they are not being used lets share them with the other hunts. I think this is the only way to give the archery hunters and muzzy hunters days without deer hunters. It takes an act of congress to change deer season dates.

 

[blazingsaddle]

Antler1
true to some degree on the fairness thing, I guess I have to look at it that most everyone has the choice to choose their weapon.
I wonder how many people choose a hunt off the dates more than the weapon? I know I do.

 

[bingo]

well thought out. I would have to chew on that for a while, but I think I like it.

 

[rock5150]

Like the though a lot need to think on it some. I would like to hunt with out any deer hunters if I got a tag for a day or two. My dad drew 6 years back on the SWD and the only complaint I had was trying deal with muzz deer hunters. I did not think it would be like it was, more of an effect than I thought it would. However I would not trade it.
Great days indeed!!!!

Rock5150

 

[rock5150]

NO I do like it. Now that I have thought about it more. How to go about changing it ?? Can it be done?

Rock5150

 

[bowhunt]

"If shortening the rifle hunt dropped the success by 10 percent then you could add 10 percent tags and increase opportunity."

You could make it a 3 day hunt, and probably not drop the harvest by 10%, just my opinion.

You have to move the dates to change the success rate, not saying I am for it, that is just how it is.

 

[bragabit]

The point of the proposal is not really to drop the success of the rifle hunters. I wanted to point out that if that happened it wouldn't necessarily a bad thing.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

There are alot of people griping about wanting a change, but I see very few ideas.

 

[rock5150]

Ya I mean this Proposal.
post one

Rock5150

 

[jims]

How about taking ALL LE hunts out of the rut! Want to keep high quality with more opportunity I'd say that would work! I still can't figure out why UT would ever want to change anything since they are currently re-writing the record books. If UT residents want elk hunting "opportunity" venture over to Colo where you can hunt elk every year! I say don't screw up a good thing!

 

[bragabit]

jim,
You are right, Utah Elk hunting is awesome! The rifle hunt in the rut provides an opportunity for EVERYONE regardless of physical ability to harvest a great bull. The problem is the herds are reaching a point of 1 to 1 bull cow ratios which is not healthy. No one wants the quality to diminish, but everyone agrees that there needs to be more bulls taken. I would like to see more tags issued in all hunts except for early rifle.