Shot placement?

[jmtigerfan]

Most deer hunters are taught to shoot a deer right behind the front shoulder, and a little low. As a former deer hunter turned elk hunter, I figured it would be the same for elk? I had a friend who is a guide in CO tell me he likes to shoot them in the front shoulder to take out the leg, and give him time for a follow-up shot. He said they usually drop in their tracks if you hit'em good in the shoulder. Sometimes they get up, sometimes they don't.

I only have experience with one bull. My crosshairs were right behind his front shoulder (the crease), and almost to the top of his back (390 yds.), and I was shaking like I was having a seizure. The bullet hit him a little higher than I would have liked (a little less than halfway up the shoulder) and a little farther farward (middle of shoulder basically), but it was effective! He fell in his tracks, but was still alive when I found him an hour and a half later. He was paralized from the neck down. I think alot of the credit goes to the Barnes TSX bullet.

What do you pros think about bullet placement? Shoulder or behind shoulder? What about quartering and facing shots?

 

[blazingsaddle]

I'm no expert and want to hear some of the replys to this. I have heard great talk of the high shoulder shot? I don't know if its good or not though. I do know that the shoulder of an elk is TOUGH. I had a 7mm stw enter, bust the shoulder and exit with in one inch of the entry hole on a cow elk. At 150 yards. She kept going. It took another shot behind the shoulder to get her down. Most all of my behind the shoulder shots have ended with the elk not going very far. Even the big bull I shot behind the shoulder with my bow, he went no more than 100 yards. Its worked for me so far.

 

[Silentstalker]

I typically shoot for just in front of the crease. My reasoning is that is a spot where I can take out the lungs and the major arteries above the heart. The shoulder actually bends towards the front of the chest creating a perfect little pocket to shoot for! Enjoy!

Chad

 

[txhunter58]

You get only 4 quarters on an elk. Taking out one shoulder (sometimes the other one as well) wastes too much meat. Hit them where the breath (double lung) and they won't go far. I shoot right behind the shoulder and 1/2 way up the body. Miss low, you hit the heart, miss high and you hit the spine.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[cowslayer]

Becareful with that shoulder. I had my bull take a 180 grain scirocco and blow my bullet up at 100 yards. I recomend behind the shoulder and midway up, that allows you some flexibility high or low. Try to double lung them and keep shooting until they are down!!!

Never let them walk away after hitting them, keep shooting until they are down. Did I mention "Keep shooting until they are Down", At least with a rifle. Never killed one with a bow. Maybe this year. Just my .02.

See on this pic what happened to my bulls shoulder. The bullet exploded, dropped the bull but no penetration into the chest cavity.

CS

www.VIPoptics.com

"When You Deserve The Very Best"

 

[slamdunk]

The outfitter i work for urges our elk clients to hit them just in FRONT of the shoulder.

There's a lot less margin for error and extremely vital if you hit to either side.

If you aim behind the shoulder and hit too far back, your in the guts and in some serious trouble.

Aiming in FRONT of the shoulder, and hit either side, your either in the spine/jugular area, or in the shoulder/heart area.
And if you happen to hit the shoulder directly, you break that bone as well.

This has been learned through the taking of hundreds of trophy bulls in over 20+ years of operation.

I still struggle with this concept when i myself am pulling the trigger, i don't know why though, it works amazingly well.








Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[nmelktrout]

If you can't kill'em with one shot you shouldn't shoot. Also, if you want, I can show you some pictures of bullets and muzzleloader slugs I have taken out of my and client's bull's shoulders....Sandwiched right up against shoulder bone or in older wounds taken from scar tissue just under the hide. Sure I've seen bulls knocked flat with a round to the front shoulder, but I've seen the loss of a quarter of meat as well as bulls take off in dark timber and go for miles with a broken shoulder with no chance at a finishing shot...look at pictures of elk and their vitals and you will see where vitals are and where you should shoot for: ie., behind the front shoulder. If you are shooting some African game or oryx as we have here in NM, a shoulder shot is actually needed to hit organs that are carried between the shoulder blades. But, in that case, you are also shooting a heavier bullet that is made to maintain its integrity and blow through bone. If you want to shoot to kill (versus shoot to knock down) you shoot for lungs and heart. Far too many animals go wounded with shoulder shots, shots below the spine in no man's land, neck shots that miss the spine, and shots that are too far back or in the flank.

The waste of meat alone should tell any responsible elk hunter about whether or not to take a shoulder shot. Besides, I would rather have a bull with a broken heart or lungs than a shoulder any day. Lot's more blood to follow, shorter distance to the kill, as well as a more humane and quick kill.

 

[REDDOG]

All of the posts above are what i think also, the high shoulder shot has alot of room for error, just put it behind the shoulder and have a sharp knife!

 

[kingfish]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-08 AT 06:56PM (MST)[p]First of all I'm no expert!!! That being said I have never shot a big bull either..I have however killed lots of deer. I am a big believer in shoulder shooting. I have on one occasion lost some shouder meat. The shoulder covers the vitals, bust up the shoulder and it usually penetrates to the vitals. If I were hunting elk with my 270 I would shoot behind the shoulder and low. With my 300 weatherby mag I would shoot the shoulder. I have seen on most occasions that the shoulder explodes and cripples the deer so bad he can't go anywhere allowing for a quick follow up shot when necessary. It's a big target with lots of vital organs behind it.

 

[cowslayer]

Kingfish,

My bull was shot with a .300 RUM 180 scirocco. The bullet was going so fast and hot that it hit the shoulder and evaporated.

No penetration into the chest cavity.

Elk and deer are as different as apples and oranges when it comes to shoulders.

CS

www.VIPoptics.com

"When You Deserve The Very Best"

 

[JB48]

As it has been said above I'm no expert.I am only relying on my own experience.
I have never wounded or lost a bull. I have killed big bodied bulls with a .270, 7 mag, 300 win, and 300 WBY. I now shoot my 300WBY with 150 accubonds for everything.
If the shoulder crease is available I will take it just below center mass, but it depends on many factors. It is important to know your bullets capabilities at velosity and range. A friend lost the biggest bull he had ever seen. His 300 WBY was loaded to the max, probably a compressed load knowing him. Shot the huge bull inside 100 yards. The bullet vaporized on the shoulder. He looked for blood and sign for 2 days no luck. It's not the caliber, it's the placement. Even with your best shot, s**t happens. JB

 

[dieseldog]

Ditch the Scirocco and get some Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. Problem solved full penetration.

 

[tex270]

Just like others have said here, the shoulder bone of an elk is extremly tough. Most bullets lack the strength to get trough it.I like right behind the shoulder in most instances, and would only take a shoulder shot with a strong premium bullet, as a last resort. But I have not shot many elk either, but I did have a 190 gr Hornady Interlock go to pieces on the shoulder of a nice 6x6. Required two more shots.

 

[BeanMan]

If I am really close, less than 50 yards, and the elk does not know I am there, I like just below the ear and a couple of inches back. The case that I have used that is when I can set up the shot and am sure where the bullet will hit. If it is standing next to a steep drainage that I don't want it to get down into after the shot then I use the shoulder. For most shots I will used 'the crease'. It all depends on circumstances.

beanman

 

[mtmuley]

Hey cowslayer, if the Scirrocco didn't penetrate, what the hell killed that bull? That bullet isn't prone to "evaporate". If it did, use an Accubond next time. I've killed two bulls under 100 yards with my RUM and Accubonds. No failure. mtmuley

 

[peakfreak]

I have not gone wrong with a double lung shot yet. They always tip over within 100yds and the shoulders are in perfect shape. Not to mention it's a big target. I think it's the cleanest way to go.

 

[gb22]

Peak freak has it nailed. That shot nails the elk, too.

 

[jmtigerfan]

OK, great replies guys, but? I sense a number of you shoot different bullets with much different results. I will start a different thread, which will have great disscussion about the "best" elk bullet! In my very humble opinion, it is the Barnes TXS!

 

[jmtigerfan]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-25-08 AT 09:41PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-25-08 AT 09:41?PM (MST)

Dude, why'd you shoot that little bull? Let him grow! I'd be ashamed to shoot something like that lil' yearling!

Just joking! You must be so stoked! Nice job bro.

P.S. Barnes TSX.

 

[cowslayer]

I had to shoot him again in the lungs.

I had broke his back on the first shot and as I got closer, he stood up and I broke his shoulder putting him down. As I got closer, I put one in his lungs to end it quicker.

CS

www.VIPoptics.com

"When You Deserve The Very Best"

 

[Califelkslayer]

I've shot 5 bulls, all in the shoulder and all 5 died in their tracks. Shot about a dozen cows through the lungs and all went 30-80 yards ( no big deal) Several other cows were taken with whatever shot presented itself.

Thinking about the bulls, I didn't wait on several for a behind the shoulder shot to come availible, for example. I had a big bull in MT feeding towards me @ about 120 yards. He was quartering towards me with his shoulder covering his vitals. A cow was 20 yards away and I was afraid she'd make me so I took that shot, He didn't take another step.

All the above elk were taken with either a 210 grain nosler partition or barnes X in .338. If I shot a .277 or .284 bullet I'm sure my results would be different.

 

[falloutwest]

Note the blood trickle in the first photo and then the 7mm 165g Nossler Accubond pulled from just under the hide on the opposite side in the second photo. I rest my case for a shoulder shot on an elk. No meat was wasted at all and we packed out every bit of it. The front of the shoulder shot is crazy. Shoot an elk through the brisket and you will track it for days. Behind the shoulder will work but you sure as heck better put it in there and not let anything trail back on you or you are equally screwed.

 

[cowslayer]

How far was the shot?

The reason I ask is the bullet maintained it's form and weight very well. If under 200 yards, I am switching to Accubonds.

CS

www.VIPoptics.com

"When You Deserve The Very Best"

 

[cowslayer]

FalloutWest,

I just read your other post saying that it was 210 yards in "What type of bullet". That is great bullet performance and a good looking bull.

Congrats.

CS

www.VIPoptics.com

"When You Deserve The Very Best"

 

[nmelktrout]

Fallout, while I agree that a shoulder shot will put a bull down in its tracks as evidenced by your killer photo, from what I can see from your photo it looks like your bullet most likely went through the back part of the shoulder (ie., the flat thin part of the shoulder blade) and not the middle of the shoulder where the heavy bone is located. A definite one-shot kill zone for a good shooter. But, a couple of inches forward with that shot and a hunter risks a broken shoulder with no vitals (depending of course on range, powder, and bullet type). Regardless, a little bit forward from that wound equates in a lost quarter due to shattered bone when you do recover the aninmal. While a guy who is a compentant shot and knows which shots to take at what angles can take that shot with no worries, it is still not a shot I would reccomend to the average shooter. A shot on the back edge of the shoulder in the middle part of the body has a greater margin for error up, down, back, and forward thanks to an elks extremely generous vital area. Again, your shot is definitely evidence of a proper shoulder shot but in my opinion it is a shot best reserved for a more accomplished shooter and hunter who spends a lot of time in the field and on the shooting range, and who can also make that shot in the field. Part of my behind the shoulder philosphy comes from seeing too many rushed shots or shots at moving animals simply to hit them or "take the air of their tires." Hell of a nice bull btw, and a great post proving the effectiveness of a well-placed shoulder shot.

 

[falloutwest]

cowslayer, congrats to you on a beautiful bull as well. I think you would be more than happy shooting the Accubonds.

nmelktrout, I think you make some good points. However, the shot was not as high on the shoulder as you think and the bullet did bust the bone pretty good. However, meat damage was still almost non-existent most likely because the bullet stayed together so well. You start seeking a lot of meat loss when you try and put a bullet through bone that doesn't stay together well and fragments. Its like a small bomb going off in the tissue. This is why I am so high on the Accubonds. As far as the behind the shoulder shot, like I said before, it is good but your room for error going towards the rear of the animal is a lot less than you are implying. An elk is not like a deer in their build in that a lot of vitals are hidden behind the shoulder. Anyway, I think both will work and as you stated, if you practice, practice, practice and become a comfortable shooter, you have a lot of options however an elk presents himself. To each his own, but with the high quality bullets available today, I have no problem putting a shot through an elk shoulder. Good luck in the field and when the moment of truth comes and your looking at a bull through your scope on some frosty morning, there are much worse problems to have than shoulder or behind!

 

[mtmuley]

3 shots from a .300 RUM. Tough bull cowslayer. You had better switch to Accubonds. mtmuley

 

[nmelktrout]

Fallout. Not high on the shoulder but back in the shoulder is what I said. Anyway, not so much a fragmented bullet on bone that wrecks a quarter but broken bone fragments and blood-shot meat from the impact of bullet hitting and driving through meat and bone. Not to mention the cutting and tearing of broken bone on meat when an animal puts weight on it. And, as for location of vitals behind the shoulder, here is an accurate depiction of an elk's vitals with regard to bone structure. Compared to African game which generally carries vitals directly between the shoulder blades, elk and deer do carry the majority of heart and lungs behind the shoulder. Granted, if this bull had his leg back it would be covering his vitals a bit more....hope this helps!

 

[muleybull]

Learn the anatomy of an animal. Theres a deadly shot at almost any angle that isnt perfectly broadside. Plus you never know when you have to follow up on a shot at a wounded animal that isnt giving you a perfect broadside shot after he jumps.

Is that ethical?