Another Would You Shoot

[Packout]

Here is the bull. Not the best photos, but good enough to get a decent look at him and size him up. Lets say you are at an acceptable range and angle for your weapon of choice. Once the bull goes over that ridge, you may never see him again.

You choose first day or last, would you shoot him?
Also, Give what you think he would score (if it is important in your decision) and what you expect from your elk hunt this fall.

I will give the end results later.

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[proutdoors]

Good bull, looks like 355-360. Good mass, weak thirds, short beams. I'll pass him up. Good looking bull though.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[Chef]

KABOOOM!!

330" is my guess.

I expect (hope) to draw an elk hunt in AZ. this year.

 

[kingfish]

Last day yes.

 

[ForkWest]

WY or ID, first day absolutely!

The UT tag I hope to draw this year, pass on day one, dead on the last.

 

[vinihunt]

FIRST DAY yes

vinihunt

 

[schmalts]

last 2 days only. Looks like a 350ish to me.

 

[quickdrawkinker]

Good looking bull! 335 and pass(if it's early).

 

[mike111]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-08 AT 03:06PM (MST)[p]Nice bull, first day pass. Probably a 335-345 bull. Last day I would take him.

 

[AZBULLS]

Would I shoot??

With a Bow -- In a heart beat!!!

Great Mass...

 

[ktc]

That bull won't touch 350. 320-330 type bull. I would shoot him if he was going to make me happy first or last day.

 

[peakfreak]

Ditto what ktc said.

 

[JakeH]

In the first photo, with my bow I would shoot. I also think he is in the 320 range. On the second photo, I would wait for him to take one more step and then shoot.

Great photos, I really enjoy these posts. Thanks.




Jake H. MM Member since 1999.

 

[MulePacker]

I have shot bulls smaller on the first day and passed bigger late in the hunt. So I guess my answer would be depends on the particular hunt. However, I do believe he is a shooter. I still have a dream of shooting a bull of a lifetime. In a couple of days I will reveal where I spent my Utah points this year for the chance.

 

[ktc]

pro said,

"Good bull, looks like 355-360. Good mass, weak thirds, short beams. I'll pass him up. Good looking bull though."

I disagree with that comment pro. 355-360 would be something like; Great mass, good thirds, and long beams? Since when does 360 have a weak or short anything?

 

[ktc]

MP,

Start a post of "Where Did I Apply?"

Winner gets to tag along all expenses paid?;-)

 

[huntin100]

Depends where I'm hunting and what weapon. Good ones and twos, weak past that. Short beams. I guess. 330-335 bull.

 

[Silentstalker]

Solid 330 bull. I would shoot on an archery hunt, pass on a rifle hunt. Great bul either way!

 

[jdbfair]

Bang, Bang, and Bang. Guess 320ish

 

[BLooDTRaCKeR]

On a general season unit? I would shoot Him as soon as I could see him on the opening morning of the hunt. On a LE unit? depending on what I saw during my scouting ventures, I would pass on the first day and given the opportunity, I would kill on the last day.

 

[antlerrick]

Last day in Utah, Maybe if my choices were gone..

320-330 max unless there is something we're not seeing...

 

[sin1us]

I think this bull is between 320-330!!! For sure this bull is no 350-360... I would take him last to days!!!

 

[dancow]

I would absolutely shoot him first day. I say that he is about 370 gross. He has some awesome mass.

 

[Packout]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-08 AT 06:35PM (MST)[p]We'll let this go until tomorrow. Dancow- very interesting Don't discount this old boys mass or his mains.

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www.sagebasin.com
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[ismith]

BOOOM! Any day just about anywhere! A beautiful mature bull.
Id say he would gross between 330 and 340.
ismith

 

[txhunter58]

In half a heartbeat, first day.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[Zigga]

320 and boom if he is within 751 yards....unless pro is my guide. Then I'll hold out for a 495"er.

 

[JB48]

I agree that his mass is being under estimated. It makes his tine length look shorter as well. His brow tines are not as short as they appear. I think he is a solid 350-365 bull that will probably go more than that. JB

 

[50cal]

As one of the many with lots of bonus points and no LE tags as of yet, absolutely yes. First day to boot. I believe he will go 345 easy with all of the mass.

 

[Outdoordan]

If he came screaming in at me, slobbering, mud dripping from him, peeing all over himself. Got my heart hammering at 20 yards, with bow, absolutely. A guided hunt (I wouldn't go on one unless given to me) at 400 yards on a LE or private ranch that was scouted by 50 people, and this bull was named "goofy" or something else, probably not. Point being, it's about the hunt.

 

[mntman]

55" beams
19" G1's
19" G2's
11" G3's
20" G4's
12" G5's
45" inside
9,8,6,6 for mass

375 Gross
I'd shoot any day of the season any weapon, then say a bull of a lifetime, a great hunt and give you the official score

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[peakfreak]

LOL... Sorry... LOL...

 

[slider]

320,no

 

[swbuckmaster]

My first guess was 330!

With pro's guess at 355 to 360 it really made me reconsider.
Pro is the Pro when it comes to judging elk The bull has very good G1's and G2's, week G3's, average G4's, average G5's and average main beams.
His mass is better than average so I have to add a few points to my original guess

My final guess is 350 gross!




Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[ktc]

swb,

I think your first guess is a good one. pro is the pro? I guess that makes me chopped heart and liver?;-) Guess we will get the scoop tomorrow. I doubt I will sleep much!

Dude, you gotta think for yourself! Even if you are wrong?

 

[scoutdog5]

First day, last day, any unit, any state, I take him. He is beeeeyutiful. Score does not matter to me, he has the style of antlers I dream about.

Scoutdog

 

[MulePacker]

Bull of a lifetime, I believe this bull is for over 95 percent of us. Regardless of how easy some want us to believe it is to kill a 400"er big stinky in Utah. As far as score I also believe we are in the 358 to 366 range.

 

[bowhuntn37]

short all the way around tines and main beam are short width is short 310 maybe

 

[ktc]

C'mon PO. post up a score buddy!

We have guesses from 310-375. I am stickin' with 325 and I don't care what anyone else says. With 47" beams for that bull to hit 350 his tines would need to be pretty long! His mass is nothing special either.

Maybe I am wrong? I am no pro.;-)

 

[sin1us]

I would shoot my Guide in the foot if he told me this bull was close to being a 360... I have a bull thats hanging on my wall that LOOKS bigger than this one and he only scores 330!!! I'm not saying you guy's are wrong, but giving this bull to much credit on mass...

 

[Packout]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-08 AT 09:10AM (MST)[p]OK. I didn't think many would come close on him. This bull was killed and the official net was 371 and change. I don't have the gross, but he was very symmetrical. The first photo is where you judge him, the width photo is poor, but provides the width. He had incredible mass which carried all the way out his beams, which were pushing 53 inches. This bull was a fooler for me also, as I pegged him around 350.

For reference, look in the first photo at the bull's ear and compare it too the mass in the beams and sword. His mass was incredible, not just great. For me mass on bulls can make the tine length shrink a little.

So good job for AzBulls, DanCow, MtnMan and others who had their rulers out. Don't feel bad everyone else, you were only off an inch or 2 (or 4) on each measurement.

There arn't many prettier bulls for shape and color and mass. If you are passing bulls like him then you are looking for the something most guys will never see. Best of luck to everyone this Fall.

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www.sagebasin.com
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[ktc]

371? Let me be the first to say I was wrong big time.

 

[manny15]

considering the dink I shot this year, oh yah!

 

[sin1us]

Man was I way wrong.... Those pics really don't do no justice!!! Either way he's nice for someone out there!!!

 

[Zigga]

Post some hunting pics please.

 

[huntin100]

If that bull nets 371. These are numbers are close to what this bull scores.

G1 20
G2 20
G3 11
G4 17
G5 13
MB 53
Mass 31

Equals 165x2=330+45 inches inside spread= 375 Gross 371 net

That bull fooled alot of people. Including me.

 

[peakfreak]

Oops!!! Sorry mtnman LOL at me. Still hard for me to believe 370, but great mass will do that sometimes. Nice post.

 

[257Tony]

For the unit that I put in for, and with a Muzzleloader, YES! Score would not be important to me. he is a very good looking Bull that I would proud to hang my tag on.

 

[mntman]

Peakfreak, no worries, it is ALL guessing till he's on the ground. I am no expert just got lucky


Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[257Tony]

I can remember a couple years ago when Tuffbucker posted a pic of a Bull in some Cedars on an LE here in Utah, and everybody piped in saying it was a 340 Bull, no bigger. We even had a very experienced Elk guide saying that they "don't shoot those Bulls down here". Well, when a hunter put him on the ground he was something like 387. just saying that pics are very hard to judge.....

 

[proutdoors]

They can be tricky to score on the hoof as well, but not as tricky as in pictures. This bull has great fronts, solid mass, good width. I had a hunter put a great bull on the ground in 2004 that I thought would go 385, which was more than big enough for the hunter. I was off by 17", I was off mostly because of his mass, it made his tines look shorter than they were. I thought he had 'good' fronts and 'good' fourths, I was wrong they were GREAT. His G1's went 22", his G2's went 21" and his G4's went 24", with 53 inch main beams and a 48" inside spread, and 33" of mass per side. Since then I try and notice the mass when 'guessing' tine/beam length. I also try and 'score' a little lower than what I think, it's better to come in 10" low than 10" high. Nice bull and story Packout.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[elkhunterUT]

I remember that post and bull as well 257-that was a very deceiving bull, as was this one.

This post just goes to show that in most cases, none of us are as good as WE think WE are, especially when judging score from a picture

 

[Zigga]

I can see 370 on that bull. Photos are deceiving. Still waiting for pics.

 

[JakeH]

HAHAHA, at least I would have been really happy after I shot him thinking he was 320.




Jake H. MM Member since 1999.

 

[Packout]

I think elk are the hardest to judge, far and away, both in person and in photo. The mass on this bull makes everything appear to shrink, until you figure out just how massive he is, then it adds up fast.

I wasn't the hunter so I won't be posting the harvest pics.

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www.sagebasin.com
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[swbuckmaster]

Elk are the hardest for me to judge because I have never seen a 370 plus alive. I can usually judge deer within a few inches.
I was at the sneeky expo working a booth and spent some time with Pro. We went around and tried to judge the elk. I was always off by 30 or so inches either way. Pro would tell me what he thought it would score then he would right down a score a few inches lower I could not believe how close he always was to getting it right.

Pro I thought you were up in the night with that score!

Way to go! A guide that tells you he is looking at a 360 bull and then you kill it and it turns out to be 370 is a guide I want on my side.




Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[WillPower]

Nope, would not even consider it, been there done that, be lucky to squeek 330 out of this bull, give him another year or two and this bull has potential. Did somebody say 370............

WP

 

[ktc]

Would you rather shoot a 370 bull that looks 330? Or, a 330 that looks 370? If I was looking for 370 and judged this bull at 330 I would have to pass. I think this bull is a great looker, but once again, score is not everything.

I know PO is not full of it and I believe him, but I would never guess this bull over 350.

Damn swb! Do you have a "Man Crush" on pro?;-)

 

[JB48]

I think it's great that most would pass on this 330 bull, so I can have a chance at this 371 Utah dinker. I value the hunt more than any score, but 371 is 371. JB

 

[dancow]

I had watched this bull for at least three years before he was killed. I had also underestimated the score even though I had gotten good looks at him on the hoof. He has a very large body which makes him look smaller. Here he is from the year before Packout's pictures.

 

[JakeH]

""Would you rather shoot a 370 bull that looks 330? Or, a 330 that looks 370?""

KTC, I have a Q for ya, would a 370 bull that looked 330 on the hoof, look like a 330 bull on the ground when you got up next to it. I would think a huge massive 370 bull would look like a 370 bull once you got your hands on him.

""If I was looking for 370 and judged this bull at 330 I would have to pass. I think this bull is a great looker, but once again, score is not everything.""

If you was looking for a 370 bull and judged this one at 330 and passed, would you have ever knowen that it was 370, you probly would have went on thinking you passed a 330 bull and been happy with how well you held out.

I'll tell you one thing, I would be really happy to shoot a bull I thought was 330, but was acually 370.



Jake H. MM Member since 1999.

 

[ktc]

Jake,

You are probably right, a 370 would look 370 once he was on the ground? Like was mentioned about the huge body, this bull would have to be a shocker once you put a tape to him. I sure as hell cannot find 370 no matter how hard I try from the pictures. I am no expert though.

I think most realistic people would be happy with 330, let alone 370.

 

[browtine]

wow, I wouldn't have put that bulls beams in the 50 inch range at all. Great post Packout, you got me as well.

Later, Brandon

 

[ktc]

Just another scoring thought. The bull looks to be 340, maybe at the most 350 in the first pic, but no way 370. In the 2nd and 3rd pic I see 320.

I am with bt, looks to me the beams are 47 or so?

Like I said, PO is not full of it, so it is what he says!

 

[proutdoors]

I missed the beam length as well, I had them at 48". IMO beams over 52" are very good, so this bull hid his length well. Could be due to his body size, that and Packout could have given us better pictures! j/k Packout.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[Packout]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-08 AT 10:50AM (MST)[p]Hey, he fooled me too. I thought 350 high end. But with mass and body size like his it hides his length. So when those "48" inch beams grow to 52+ it makes everything else grow too. Even though the photos bite, look at his head size compared to the length and the antlers sweep past hump on his shoulder. (We ALL now know I am not a photographer.haha)

He is kind of like Jacobsen's bull, when some of the best elk judges missed him by 30-40 inches due to the same issues we found with this bull. Score just isn't everything.

I shot my muzzleloader bull a few years ago, close to the end of the hunt, and thought he was 300-310, based on 46 inch mains. I packed the thing out, headed home, and told a few friends over the phone what I thought he was. One buddy showed up and wanted to put a tape on him. His beams grew to 53 and 54 inches on the ride home and the score jumped by 40". So what I am saying is maybe I suck at judging elk.

So that was fun, someone else throw up a set of photos.

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[Antler1]

I would have let him walk just because of the short thirds.
I would have guessed him to be around 340 to 350. In the third picture the MB's look around 47. In the second picture I can see the MB's being 52.

A friend of mine shot a bull this year with as much mass as I had ever seen on a bull. He asked what I thought it scored and I figured around 370. It ended up scoring in the mid 390's. The mass is deceiving. It's got me wondering about a couple bull we've turned down over the years that appeared to have short tines.

 

[timberline_shedfreak24]

I love these post. 370??? Maybe not. Still worth an arrow. FLING!

Timberline

"Live for somethin' or die for nothin'"