wasatch tags

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Cam@strawberry

Very Active Member
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Anyone know the number of tags on the wasatch this year? hearin rumors that its increased alot and im hopin i get to draw before this really becomes a pisscuttin unit that would make bobcat feel sorry :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-08 AT 02:34PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-08 AT 02:33?PM (MST)

Berry,
Pretty sure thay went with the recommended numbers.
archery 81 res, 9 nr.
any weapon 184 res, 21 nr.
muzzy 49 res, 5 nr.
premium 10 res. 1 nr.
This is very close if not exact.
Hope this helps ya.
 
The last few years it seems like it's on its way to being one of the first pisscutter units. There's still some great bulls, but it aint what it use to be... A great hunt for a 300-330 bull though. Only a handful of 350 plus bulls shot anymore.

Hope to see some MM guys with the 350 plus stinkys.
 
Yep, better slam those big wasatch bulls why you can, with numbers like that, it will be a pisscutter unit in no time.
A 350" will be a giant!







Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
The trend toward Pisscutterism on the Wasatch has clearly been demonstrated (please note the sarcasm)! Here is the average age data of harvested bulls from 1999 to 2007:

4.8 5.7 6.0 6.1 6.4 6.8 7.1 7.2 7.1

If what you guys are saying is true, then there is a negative correlation between age and antler score! By the way, the management objective is 5-6 years old.
 
since when was a 330 bull a pisscuter.... I would love to stick a 330 bull. You shoot a 330 bull in any state in the west and its a nice bull... but I guess in Utah it needs to be over 350.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-08 AT 10:44AM (MST)[p]Just saying that on average, the size of the bulls harvested on the Wasatch has slipped some the last few years. There's plenty of old bulls, but not many of them will ever grow a 350+ rack. I know of several DWR aged 6+ year old bulls shot on the Wasatch that wont break 330.

In my opinion genetics are more important than age.

I wish it wasn't so. I live right in the heart of it and could of likely drawn any of the elk hunts (except premium), and I didn't put in for it this year. With all of the snow this past season I think we all got a pretty good look on the winter range of the bulls calling the Wasatch home.

There wasn't near the class or number of big bulls there was just a few years ago.

It's a great unit, there are some monster bulls. But, I think there are a lot better units for the amount of points and effort you'd put into a Wasatch hunt.

I'd be willing to bet the average gross score on bulls off of the Wasatch the last three years is among the lowest in the state...

Elk-horn-that about sums it up.
 
Good post UGA! The unit is more than a year OVER age objective and the gloom and doom crowd is complaining it is being turned into a pisscutter unit. WTF????

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Prism your right, Many bulls on the wasatch will never break the
340 mark in there lifetime. On the other hand, I found a half
dozen bulls this winter in out of the way spots that were very
surprising. Anyway my wife has the rifle tag this year and we
will spend alot of time on there looking and hunting. I have
hunted it a lot over the years and know what you mean about
genetics. It will be a fun hunt for the wife and kids though.
 
Correct if I am wrong, bit wasn't the WORLD RECORD muzzy bull come of the Wasatch in the last couple of years? I believe that units is a great unit still.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I agree with Pro. I drew that tag this year and have had the opportunity to see many great bulls from Fecruary until they dropped. There are still some great bulls on the unit, and I hope to find one this fall!
 
Pro-

You're right it did. And I think it could produce a record or two this year. That being said, it just seems the average size of the bulls isn't what it use to be.

How many times do I have to say that there are some great bulls on the unit? There are, just not nearly as many as most of the other units in the state, and doesn't seem to be as many as there were 3 years ago.

The fact is (I believe), most guys are gonna struggle to break 330.
 
The numbers UGAhunter posted are correct, this unit HAS came up hill with older bulls over the years, but what I was pointing out is how many tags just got ADDED to it, clearly will start having an effect on the age class going down, but that is what they want, right?

I totally agree with Pro's idea and the I400, i like the idea, nor am i complaining about the Wasatch, i think it's a great unit to reduce the age class in.

My point was to hurry and get those older 8-9-10 year old bulls while they are available, because 5-6's will be the norm in the future there. :)




Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
Yes, the age class might come down, but they have been trying to accomplish this for several years, and it keeps going up, up, up (in most LE units, not just the Wasatch). I don't think people need to be too worried about reduction in quality just yet. Having said that, I'm glad I drew this year!
 
I'm glad you drew to UGA, that is awesome and that is a fun unit!!

Plus i know it very well and don't mind sharing tips :)






Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
Fair enough Prism. I don't want to lock horns with you today as I am still stoked over drawing my tag.

This whole deal solidifies my opinion that harvest age averages mean little/nothing about the quality of animals on a given unit. Thw Wasatch has a higher average than units that are better for producing 380+ caliber of bulls. Ratios and coupled with lower success rates will allow for high end bulls while giving MORE hunters the chance to actually hunt mature bulls on units like the Wasatch.

I still believe if a hunter is willing to 'hunt' and work for it, he can find plenty of 350+ bulls on this unit. I would take a Wasatch tag OVER a Monroe tag straight up. But, that's just me.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Pro-

Fair enough.

Good luck to the lucky MM guys with Wasatch tags.

I hope you all prove me wrong!:)
 
for all those that assume that the wasatch is going down hill please save it cause your wrong. five years ago a three fifty plus bull was equivalent to a four hundred bull anywhere else now if your dedicated and have the time a three fifty bull is almost the norm. however due to the demographics and areas hunted of this unit the amount of tags issued is grossly over done. i live in the heart of this unit and am out four to six days a week i know whats going on and how the tag numbers affect the herd. Pro is very right the average age is much too high but the genetics over all are not what is seen on the pahvant dutton etc. true dougs bull is the world record however genetics of this caliber are few and far between and bulls of his caliber are extremely rare. i understand that 400 bulls are not around every corner. but a three sixty plus animal is like finding a needle in the haystack. This was not the way to manage this unit unless the goal was to turn it into a opportunistic hunt either way its the last year i put in for it at least for a little while. I would have rather seen a management hunt for 3 to 5 point bulls no exception no 5x6 no broken bulls just enough to help trim down the overall bull to cow ratio and then let the unit and overall age of the bulls recover in the near future true some of the older bulls will die but with less up and comers this will end in two to three seasons. Personally im very disappointed that the unit i know and love has been managed this was and i can only hope it changes next year.
 
The Wasatch unit was made spike only because of near 100% bull kill on the general hunts, not to grow 400 inch bulls. There is now more than enough bulls to breed the cows, and some do indeed grow very old. They could give 50 tags for the unit and 50 guys would have a spectacular hunt each year, or they could give 500+ tags and 500+ guys will have a good to spectacular hunt each year.

Timp could be the best deer hunt in the state if they gave 3 tags...is that what people want though? I dont understand why people want to limit the elk tags so much so that it is a realistic if not likely possibility that you kill a 360+ bull. Far too much opportunity is lost to support that.

Regarding the Wasatch my opinion is that perhaps the quality has slipped a little, but there were still dozens of 340-370 class bulls easily seen this last winter, and a handful of larger bulls. Let people hunt them.

My brother has a muzzleloader tag and a good friend drew the early rifle (with one point!), we expect to be able to turn up 320-340 class bulls pretty easily...but we do realize it will take some work and luck for either one of them to kill a 350+...and that is how it should be.

-RPinenut
 
Gotta agree with Pinenut 100%. Also, some of the Wasatch has only been limited entry for 9 years, which means they will skew the data older allowing for higher increases in tags.

-------------------------
www.sagebasin.com
-------------------------
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-08 AT 07:12PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-08 AT 07:10?PM (MST)

Just for fun, here's a couple of Wasatch bulls.

What do you think they score? How old do you think they are?

ValsElk026.jpg


Another Wasatch bull.

2006NewMexico056.jpg


And another.

2006UTELKHUNT040.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-08 AT 07:30PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-08 AT 07:28?PM (MST)

All right Prism, I'll bite....329 net. top pic.
 
They're all under 340 and over 6 years old. Infact, 2 of them were aged over 8 years old! The majority of Wasatch bulls just don't have the genetics to be great scoring bulls. That being said I know that some do, and the Wasatch can and does produce 400" bulls.

I also know that it seems the majoriy of Wasatch 350+ bulls are 300-330" bulls that always seem to grow a couple of feet on the way down the canyon:)

There's been a handful of 350-370" sheds picked up this year around here. Hopefully one of you Wasatch boys will catch up to one of them this fall!

That's enough of that. It's time to talk about something worthwhile-muleys;-)
 
You guys are right. Wasatch sucks.
Everyone put in for a different unit.
The biggest bulls are PISSCUTTERS.
Stay away from Wasatch. ;)
 
I'm with Prism on this one. I agree with about everything he has said. Yes, there are some awesome bulls on Wasatch, but I feel that the average bull is smaller than the average bull from 4 years ago. I'm not saying that they need to reduce or increase tags, but my opinion is that the unit doesn't carry as many BIG bulls as it has in the past.

I also agree with the fact that some guys like to inflate the score of their elk (I think it makes your weiner bigger if you do this). My brother and I talked with a guy quartering a mature bull on Wasatch last year. His wife had killed the bull the night before so the head and antlers weren't with him at the kill site. He told us that it was a very big bull and would score close to the same as the 350 bull that he had killed the year before. He then showed us a picture of his 350 bull from the previous year. It took about 1 second for us to realize that we weren't looking at a 350 bull. That bull would have needed a very liberal measuring tape and scorer to be 290.

I love this unit and try to spend as much time possible on it every year. My family and I have been hunting deer and elk up there for the past 20 years and have seen some great animals. I have seen some bulls on this unit recently that are right at the 400 mark (both during the muzzy hunt)and a lot of bulls from 340 to 375, but I do think the overall quality has dropped just a bit. But, this is just my own opinion and I'm sure others will disagree with me; and that's okay too.
 
I agree that most bulls will never grow a 350 inch set of antlers, not matter how old they are. My uncle killed a Wasatch bull in 2001 that the F/G aged at 9.3 and it scores 310. When considering the low percentage of bulls that would ever grow a 350 inch set of antlers no matter how old they get, and the number of 350 inch bulls being killed in Utah, this demonstrates the huge loss of opportunity present.

-RPinenut
 
Bingo!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Pinenut hits the nail on the head.
Let us kill the damn things and these problems wouldn't be as bad as they are. BUT NO we cant give out more tags that would just be a massacre and then we would be left with no elk to kill.


Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave in a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting HOLY SH!T WHAT A RIDE!!!
 
Addicted you are a hundred percent right on that one however on the wasatch i believe that this is way to many tags. The majority of the hunters are concentrated in two areas and it shows when they give out this many tags. This is the last year i put in for the wasatch due to the number or tags for at least five years thats how long it took for the cows to rebound when the division slaughtered them a few years back. i can only hope that im wrong on this but based on what i see its not gonna be pretty for a few years.
 
I spend alot of time on the Wasatch, camping, fishing, hunting. Most years Ive got a northeastern tag and I am in the dedicated hunter program so I also Archery hunt there as well. I can say that from what I have seen the Elk are in great shape. I would dare say that there are getting to be way to many bulls. Alot of areas that we used to deer hunt no longer hold deer due to being over ran with Elk. There have been many trips where the Elk far out number the deer. Im not sure what 2 areas you say the hunters are concentrated in because the areas we spend are time we see very few hunters. Maybe thats just because we will actually leave the road and hike.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave in a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting HOLY SH!T WHAT A RIDE!!!
 
The elk are in great shape thats the point! there are way to many bulls but not way to many mature ones i LIVE in the unit on strawberry resivior. im here every day all day and night with the amount of tags that were issued this year its going to completely decimate the up and coming bull population because on the wasatch the majority of the hunters take a 300 to 330 bull opening morning. now as for the deer pop look at the whole state in general its pretty poor! apart from the books henrys and a couple of places down south the deer herd is less then spectacular now yes i understand that a mountain can only sustain so many animals be it deer or elk and yes there are a lot of elk but to issue this many tags is gonna be suicide for the unit at least thats what my opinion in and as for the two areas the strawberry valley and waters area along with trout creek is where the majority of the BIG BULL hunters go now last time i checked that was different season than the archery and rifle deer tags so i can understand why you wouldnt see many hunters. i hunt this northeast myself along with spikes every year to say i dont get out of the truck is a bit of an jab at me ive covered every inch of this valley central unit northeast unit and wasatch elk unit combined i hunt its my job past time and obsession. anyway this is just my opinion and in the next couple of years we will see what happens with the unit so hold on eh ;-)
 
I think there is a lot of truth to whats being said about certain areas getting hammered this year, but I think in the long run it will force people to spread out and find other areas on the unit to hunt. My suggestion to anyone with a wasatch tag is get away from the crowds there is elk all over the unit.

I have hunted the wastach unit my entire life in-fact in utah its really the only place I have hunted, and every year they increase the number of permits and every year I see more and more and bigger and bigger bulls. In-fact last year is the first year i can legitimatly say i saw a bull that would go close to 400", and nobody even hunted him on the rifle or muzz hunt.

I agree its going to be a lot harder to kill a 330 plus bull in certain areas and off the road, but I am in favor of more oportunity on the unit and the people who are willing to work for a 330 plus are the people who are going to kill a 330 plus and they are the ones that deserve it not the guy who drives up and shoots one off the road opening morning.

And if you want a slam dunk on a 330+ do your time and hunt they units where they are everyware.
 
Berry it wasnt meant as a jab at you, I was taking a jab at weekend warriors who dont leave the roads or their ATVs.

I was wondering if you dont think that being able to hunt and kill the over population of bulls on the unit is the answer to controlling the problem then what is? With too many bulls running around they will never get the chance to be BIG bulls. This years increase is about the same as last years, I believe correct me if im wrong. Last years increase did not reduce herd or bull numbers, if I remember right the harvest numbers, bull numbers, bull to cow ratios,age objectives, pretty much all the numbers that matter have stayed pretty flat and have not gone to far one way or the other.
If Im wrong someone please correct me I was going off of memory so that could be off.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave in a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting HOLY SH!T WHAT A RIDE!!!
 
No worries addict ;-) im all for maintaining a healthy population but if you kill off all the 300-330 bulls then they cant grow any bigger so you loose quality i dont have a solution for this problem the best idea i could come up with was a management hunt, with a slot limit if you will three to five point bulls only no broken five by six's or b.s. like that i just cant support killing off the mature bulls on a LE unit if we need to cut down the numbers lets work on the up and coming generations not the bulls that are already there and please no slaughter house kill every animal on the mountain hunts just a manageable number of tags to keep future ratios in check
 
Good point. Let the current crop grow up and thin the herd to groom the up and comers.


Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave in a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting HOLY SH!T WHAT A RIDE!!!
 
ya it hurts to see the bulls that are already here be killed leaving the same problem next year an overpopulation of smaller mature bulls now i know that the majority of the 330 animals will not be anything more than a 330 bull but there are a few that we need to let grow up a little more! so let them do it!! i cant preach to much about this cause i dont know as much as a should but thats just my feelings on it
 

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