UT: double tag $ then cut tags by 1/2

[sharpshinned]

I just spent $40 filling up my gas tank. I will gladly pay double that for a normal deer tag. I'm a utah resident and just need to voice an opinion....

I would join many in thinking that the simple move of doubling the tag price and cutting the number of tags in half would be a great place to start. If the revenue doesn't come in a "test year" then pursue other options...but something has to change in Utah or I will just keep hunting in Wyoming only. But, my bet is that half the hunters would pay twice the price to have half of us on the mountain and half the deer killed each year. (I bet it would actually be less since those who pay for the higher priced tag would end up taking a deer ever other year or every third year...as trophy hunters...)Just my opinion. What's yours?

sharpshinned

 

[Prism]

I agree that something needs to change, but raising prices too much worries me.

Anyone that has followed the prices of conservation, landowner, CWMU, etc. and guided trips, the last few years knows that we have yet to reach a ceiling. There are a lot of guys out there willing to pay a WHOLE lot more than the average joe.

It's all simple business-supply and demand!

The average landowner deer tag in Utah is around $4000 elk are in the $10-$20 thousand dollar range. CWMU tags are somewhat cheaper and conservation tags are CRAZY.

The DWR is already to catch onto this somewhat. Conservation groups are making bank and eventually the state is going to want a larger piece of the ever growing pie.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there will always be guys out there willing to pay a lot of money to hunt-we're worse than drug addicts!

But this is going to hurt the average guy that wants to take his family hunting. In a couple of decades all of the rich dudes that can afford these tags are going to be gone and the market will crash-leaving state agencies high and dry.

By the time this happens the wolves and bears will have taken over the role of hunters as they are doing in parts of Idaho and Montana. The minority of hunters that are left in the state wont be able to win a ballot initiative in Utah because of our beloved prop 5-which I think is going to come back to bite hunters in the ass within 20 to 30 years.

The states population will be more than double what it is now, and developers will have gobbled up what's left of our northern winter ranges.

Now if that doesn't get somebody worked up I didn't do a very good job

My philosophy is to hunt like there's no tomorrow now, because times are a changin!

 

[Founder]

OK Prism, you convinced me buddy!!! I'm getting a 3rd job, sending the wife out to get a 2nd, and I'm buying great tags everywhere!!!
Maybe I'll put out a "Finders Fee"---LOL Just kiddin'

Seriously, Utah does need to make some changes. Although I am a trophy hunter and would like to see more big deer, I also understand that cutting a LOT of people out of the sport simply so that a few more big deer can be killed, IMO, isn't the answer.

I'll tell you a story. On opening day this year, I ran into a guy (John) and his 16 year old boy (JD). It was a couple hours after light. I asked JD if he was hunting for his first buck, he said yes, so I told them about a couple bucks I had seen earlier. Of course, they thought I was full of crap.
Anyway, I went on my way and 20 minutes later spotted a really good mature buck bedded in the thick brush. He wasn't what I wanted, so I jumped up and ran up the mountain to catch up to JD and his dad.
I practically had to drag them down the mountain, as I don't think they thought there would be any chance of getting the buck. But, JD did get the buck---his first deer, and if I do say so myself, a good one.
The reason I'm telling the story is because John and JD didn't care one bit about how big that deer was. They were hunting because, I believe, it was their time to be together doing something that dad (John) grew up doing.
What's funny is, while I was checking out the cheaters on the bucks antlers, they were complaining a bit at how big the body was. They would have preferred a yearling, as it would have been easier to get off the mountain.

My point is, not everyone cares about "trophy" animals. Therefore, should we ask those people to give up hunting so that WE have a better chance of killing a big buck?

Although quality in Utah could be better, I'm not sure that the reward is worth the cost. I believe the Utah Fish & Game feels the same. To cut tags means you have to tell people they don't get to hunt. Tough call.

Somehow, better quality needs to happen without eliminating too much opportunity.
Maybe making people choose elk or deer, not both. Or maybe allowing only 2 deer to be harvested every 3 years. Something, but I don't think making massive tag cuts is the answer. Cutting a few may be OK, but big tag cuts are going to hurt ALL hunters.

I love to deer hunt and don't really want to have to sit out every year just so that the age class of bucks is 1 year better.

((Here's a pic of JD's first buck))

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[Prism]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-04 AT 03:57PM (MST)[p]Brain-I agree with you. That's an awsome buck, let alone for a first one.

In my antler collection downstairs there's a 7" 2 point right in the middle of the other antlers-my first buck. He was shot out around Strawberry where my family has hunted for over 50 years. I don't think I've been more excited about any buck since then. Though I get a lot more out of the whole experience now.

There is (much) more to hunting than scores, widths, and bragging rights. If there wasn't I would of given it up long ago, as would most.

However, within the last 10 years I'd think that all would agree that hunting has been taken to a different level. We've become more specialized, educated, etc. and perhaps even more "trophy" driven.

I imagine that the first great conservationist like Aldo Leupold, Fred Bear, Teddy Rosevelt, etc. are rolling over in their graves because of what hunting has become to many-not all.

Hunting has become big business-not just equipment, but the whole game of it-landowner tags, finders fees, guided this and that, consultants, etc. etc. etc.

I think we'd both agree that prices will continue to climb as opportunities for all get harder and harder to come by-supply and demand.

I'm just not sure we're heading in the right direction-only time will tell......

 

[DallanC]

Very well said.

I detest the notion of reduced tags because I like to hunt. I've always been able to find deer, its never an issue. This past year for the first time since I was able to hunt, I failed to draw a general season deer tag. I was dumbfounded, hurt, annoyed... pissed off. I bought a leftover archery tag, bought a bow, practiced all summer and stuck a nice buck opening morning.

My wifes family is completely oblivious to antlers post kill. Antlers are just to identify something to shoot and once its dead and home, they saw them off and toss them away with the rest of the carcass. I've seen picts of 190ish bucks that had their headgear thrown away. They only care about the meat.

People hunt for different reasons, some to be with family, some to enjoy the outdoors, some to get freezer meat, some for that trophy rack on the wall. Who's to say any one reason is more important than any other.

Again, well said Brian.


-DallanC

 

[tylercreek2]

very well put by the founder i think we would all love to shoot a hog every year, least i know i would ,,, but i also LOVE to eat the things and LOVE to hunt ,,,, am also a non res ,,,, so should i be penalized by less tag numbers ? boy i hope not ,,, not sure i could stand not going every year,my wife would kill me on account of my moping around all over i'm sure ,,, point is, to me any deer is a trophy be it a nice one or a smaller one , and yes would prefer nicer ones so respectfully speaking of course i sure hope some of you guys dont get your way ie: tag numbers cut ,,, and showing that young guy that deer was a way cool thing to do congrads to him , he coulda missed and congrads to you ,,, even though i'm a well shall we say a wee bit older i hunt with my dad also sure hope will continue to do so ,,, happy new year to everyone ,,, and again way cool thing to do , helping that kid get his buck ,,,,

 

[ktg]

I agree and I've voted so with my wallet since '98, not that that's helped. They sell all the tags anyway. I've spent my money in other states, sadly. I don't think a lot of the people out there know what we're talking about because they never hunted Utah 20 or more years ago. Ahhh, those were the days. I don't think there's any chance of cutting tags. Geez, people have a fit when they want to change the way they draw on 5% of the tags.

 

[bowhunt]

Founder,
That is one of the best posts ever! We need to keep in mind that hunters have different objectives, and all have a say.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

[BUCKSPY]

It can't be a free-for-all forever. The simple fact is that mule deer bucks are a limited resource and its very easy to kill a majority of the 1 1/2 year old class of deer every year. Here in Colorado, we did that for years and the result was an almost total lack of 5 year old and up bucks in heavily hunted Western Slope units. Tag numbers were cut back and leftover licenses sales cut-off and once again we have some dandy bucks and a whole bunch of little guys for the "any buck" crowd. I guess thats why the Utah boys have Colorado at the top of their non-resident application list now.

Bottom line is that a vast majority of people would rather take a buck with some size to him than a dink but are unwilling or unable to pass up smaller bucks and hunt harder and farther. But thats OK, its their choice. I do have to cry BS really loud when guys say they would pass up a nice mid 20's mulie in favor of the 2-point standing at his side. That's human nature to take that nice buck over peewee.

Brian-Nice gesture on helping that family get the kid a buck.

 

[Founder]

BUCKSPY - Ya, most people (probably all) would rather take a better buck. However, the father and son I spoke of above, would NOT want to give up hunting every other year (or even more often) just to kill a mid-20's buck every now and then. Getting out there hunting together is what's important to them.

Believe me, I feel the same as you about mule deer being a limited resource. I would also love to see more big deer here in Utah. But, to better the quality, and reach the goal, I think we must closely examine the cost.

Our situation here in Utah is that our deer herd just isn't as large as it once was, therefore a mucher larger percentage of bucks are being killed each year. The best solution is to just get our deer herd back up to where it needs to be. In the meantime, maybe cutting a few tags, 10k or so is the answer. Maybe in addition to that, we make people choose Deer or Elk hunting, but not both---atleast for a few years while the deer herd rebounds.

Also, big things are happening within the Forest Service. With Bush in the White House, chaining, prescribed burns, etc. are going to happen. Money IS being channeled towards restoring mule deer habitat. Don Peay and SFW may be a controversial subject for many, but bottomline_____Don sits down with the most powerful man in the world and talks about how to fix our mule deer herds.
And because sportsmen account for enough votes to mean the difference between winning and losing an election, the president and all political folks take notice.

Utah has the potential to be by far, the best place anywhere to hunt BIG deer. Heck, even now while we're struggling, a good number of very big deer are killed each year---Public and Private Land.
What people have to keep in mind is that even in Colorado, the most BIG bucks are growing up in highly limited areas and private land, just as in Utah.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[dabassmasta]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-05 AT 02:30PM (MST)[p]To me hunting is about getting out and having fun. I hunt because I want to be outdoors and have the chance to shoot a decent sized deer. I don't shoot deer with their mom's milk on their face, but I don't see the need in doubling fees any more than they are. Utahn's need to have more voice in the DWR's regulations.

 

[idhunters]

I'm not from Utah, I am from Idaho, but the fee issues are impacting all states. My biggest problem with fee increases is to make sure that 1) the agency getting the fee increase is already running as cost efficient as possible and 2) that the money goes to actually fixing or improving a resource.

That being said, I just bought a "sportsmans pack" here in Idaho. The pack includes tags for deer, bear, elk, turkey, salmon, steelhead and mtn lion. It includes a hunting and fishing license. The cost? $107.

I hate to say it but $107 for all that is a BARGAIN!! Diesel is $2.20 a gallon, Movies are $7.50/person. Dinner out? $12 if your cheap. A good beef steak is $6/pound from the grocery store.

I don't want to price families out of hunting either, but its not realistic to think that every other form of entertainment (and living in general) is getting more expensive but a deer tag should still cost $10.

The long term solution is more deer and more area's to hunt them (access).

Just my 2 cents.